Alternatives to Brigging and Fines

[Garnascus]

Funnily enough I agree with sue and delta here, being brigged isn't supposed to be fun and if you get perma brigged as an antag too bad so sad you lost, deal with it. I will also echo delta's point. Security isn't going to care about whatever regulations come as a result of this. There is no way they aren't going to be anything more than horribly frustrating when you have cultists murdering the crew, lings eating all of medical or gruff mcgriffer stealing the spare.

Even if shit hasn't hit the fan yet, why would security go through all the trouble of setting up an alternative such as forced labor, tests, or some other activity when they can just brig and be done with it? Oh you want to try enforcing this IIVory even OOC? Congratulations, your security players are not going to play anymore.

[jackfractal]

The only way an alternative would work is if it were easier then brigging people, and less likely to create recidivism. To make a mining prison work, you'd have to make the mine the only prison, and that would mean processing in and out of it would have to be very efficient.

[EvilBrage]

I'd just like to see more prison/brig RP in general - currently, we throw people into a glass box and let them sit there until their timer's up. The way we have things now is alright, but it could be much better. Maybe we don't even need the mining portion at all, but perhaps a prison regime with a canteen, a workshop, and free time included?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

If you include these in the communal brig, sure. But I get enough prison-rp being held without charge in interrogation for an indefinite length of time, or witnessing security descend into civil war every time I get pulled in. Three times this week I've had the officer interrogating me stunbaton'd then dragged off by someone else, or a shooting happens in the hallway between officers.

Expecting the complete mess to have more regulations to follow is expecting a bit much, lol. The brig for me is like a dentist visit; I want to get in and out as fast as possible. Once I'm actually in a cell I usually tab out and do something else for the duration of my time. It's a nice break.

(Not that these problems are isolated to sec; they just have all the stunsticks and 'ic reasoning' to arrest people. A messy medbay just has people improvise.)

[LetzShake]

Funnily enough I agree with sue and delta here, being brigged isn't supposed to be fun and if you get perma brigged as an antag too bad so sad you lost, deal with it. I will also echo delta's point. Security isn't going to care about whatever regulations come as a result of this. There is no way they aren't going to be anything more than horribly frustrating when you have cultists murdering the crew, lings eating all of medical or gruff mcgriffer stealing the spare.

Even if shit hasn't hit the fan yet, why would security go through all the trouble of setting up an alternative such as forced labor, tests, or some other activity when they can just brig and be done with it? Oh you want to try enforcing this IIVory even OOC? Congratulations, your security players are not going to play anymore.

Well, I don't think I've seen any ideas here I like all that much as an alternative to brigging but the attitude of "you lost" is going to just lead to more powergaming. This isn't supposed to be about winning and losing, it's supposed to be about RP. So we need to find something that won't take long for security to do, but also won't be 'too easy' on prospective criminals.

[Garnascus]

Well frankly it is about winning and losing, your RP is you lost and the security guys get to perma brig you. There is pretty much nothing you can do that's easy on officers so they will actually do it and not "easy" on criminals. Outside of perhaps a reduced sentence for a loyalty implant but.... That opens another can of worms.

Not everything is going to be fun and not everything has to be. Especially not when its a punishment.

[Xelnagahunter]

Having things for a player to do is also not a bad thing. Lets say we put a crew monitoring computer and the alerts computers in the brig. Give them their own power supply and if the crew is short staffed or needs the help the warden can active those and ask the prisoners to help, possibly in exchange for a small time off sentence or a luxury. That's what I call putting prisoners to work. Give them something helpful that lets them interact and not be forgotten.

[EvilBrage]

Well frankly it is about winning and losing [...] Not everything is going to be fun and not everything has to be. Especially not when its a punishment.

That's the exact line of thought that leads to powergaming and metagaming. If you refuse to even try to make something a marginally unique experience with its own bits and pieces of fun, however small, then there's really nothing you can say when people simply quit the game when they're being dragged to the brig. You can separate people from the general populace and punish them ICly without punishing them OOCly for having the gall to try to make a round interesting. That's what this suggestion is about, if I'm not mistaken.

Again, if we structure the brig more like a prison, it'll be much more fun. Trying to sneak a shank out of the workshop under the watchful eye of the guard from the catwalks? It's got its own appeal.

[MagnificentMelkior]

The brig is actually pretty good with the communal brig in my opinion. Even one other prisoner there really makes it an enjoyable experience. Also, its not that hard to bust out of the brig if you are a savvy antag and - this is important - you are pleasant towards security. I find that if I'm nice to the arresting officers I get less supervision and am more likely to be able to hide a tool or weapon somewhere on my body because they are less likely to force me to change to orange.

I think suggestions for things to add or change about the communal brig are the best place to go if you want to enhance the experience of prisoners. Most of the other suggestions have to come through the sec departments graces and they can already do that if they want to.

[EvilBrage]

The problem isn't busting out of the brig - without 24/7 supervision, that's fairly easy to accomplish. The point I'm trying to make is that if you give people more to do while they're inside, they may not want to instantly take off their shoes and slam them against the window repetitively until someone comes in to flash them - and in that way, we enhance the server's environment. If we have a problem with map space, I wouldn't be all that adverse to having a prison complex set under the station (because theoretically, we don't have to build the entire station on a 2d plane, you know.)