Valkrae HoS OCT292014

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

BYOND Key: Jackboot

Player Byond Key: Valkrae

Reason for complaint:

Valkrae was playing HoS Robert Dalton. He was the only Head on the station, and it was rp-rev. He starts being a comdom, and otherwise a very terrible person. Fine, I've gotten yelled at for trying to be antaggy Head during rp-rev but if things changed then whatevs.

As Yasir Gafar, I go into the security lobby about ~10 minutes into the round, and check the APC. I'm genuinely in there to see if the APC is charging, and it's just me, a Tajaran, standing there staring at the APC. Robert proceeds to question me, and then unsatisfied with my answer hostage-intents me. What proceeds is then a display of utter incompetence and borderline griefy behaviour. He stuns me, gets me on the ground, beats me, then chucks me in a cell for ten minutes. Without being told of a charge.

I'm brigged for TEN MINUTES without being told of any charge. He tries to take my headset (fails) and just chucks me in a cell with nothing to do since I'm bucklecuffed. Five minutes in, I mention on common that I'm brigged and then I end up flashed by a borg and my time is reset to 10 minutes.

Erik Tiber was the surgeon in the brig with me as well, I believe, and he can collaborate that sec this round showed poor judgement. I A-helped the issue and got:

Moderator PM from-PumpkingSlice: Expect sec to be dicks on rev. Just try to bear with it.

Is this an official policy shift? Are we condoning griefy behaviour because 'round-type is rev, Heads can be dicks'? What about 'Heads aren't antags on RP-rev'?

I'm 90% sure I have a note on my record from behaviour as a Head during RP-Rev, so any hint of double standard is really... Irritating

[Erik Tiber]

Actually I was just a medical doctor. Anyway, I was there because one of security's prisoners was receiving mass brute damage while inside permanent holding, and had major damage to all major organs. Which is rather excessive.

I personally witnessed the borg flashing him and his time being reset, as well. Security had also detained several other people for almost no reason, for long amounts of time. The HoS had apparently personally beat someone with their bear hands too.

[Valkrae]

Well, Let me start this off by saying that I decided to play this rp-rev round a bit differently than usual. I decided to be a really commanding, and dickish Head of Security. I wanted the Rev's to have more than enough reasons to revolt against me, and therefore, give the round some flare that it doesn't usually have.

In this round, I decided to play my Head as very paranoid, and suspicious of anything.

When you walked into the lobby, You made no mention of anything to do with the APC at first. You just strolled in, and started messing with things. To Robert, That seemed mighty suspicious. He asked you what you were doing, you responded truthfully, however Robert did not trust you, especially when you put on the helmet.

As for the 10 minute brigging, I did not call that. I told my forces to put everyone into perma brig, so that everyone could cause a prison break, and revolt against me in a glorious charge of glory and revolutionairyness. The area was chaotic, so I had no idea who was being put where, and how long they were being put there.

And when it comes to the "beating" portion, it came nowhere close to a beating. I hit people once for emphasis if they resisted arrest. That is not against the rules, and I never did anything that was against the rules.

I apologize for you being trapped in the brig for so long, but that was not under my control.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I can understand your paranoia if I had tools out. But it was just me, standing there, looking at the APC. I didn't fiddle with it, open it, or in anyway touch it. Yasir put on the helmet because you were scaring him, and it's a form of a safety blanket for him; a tic.

Yes, it was under your control. You are the Head of Security. It is your responsibility and the Warden's responsibility to ensure the Brig is functioning smoothly. If I end up in a cell for 10 minutes, then say "I've been put in this cell for 10 minutes" over public comms, you should know that hey, I've been in a cell for 10 minutes. Especially since you were the arresting officer.

[Valkrae]

That tic caused Robert to instantly not trust him, as he thought, in his delusioned mind, that you were sucking the air out of the room by disabling the APC.

It's really hard to keep track of all of that happening when I was in the middle of an interrogation, otherwise, I would've came outside, and released you, for the time being.

It may have been under my jurisdiction, but that doesn't mean I literally actually had full control over it.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Looking at the issue again, I'm going to drop the complaint. Being an antagonistic Head during rev is something I can... Tentatively support, but please in the future remember to do your job in administering the security department first and antagonizing the crew second. It's no fun at all to be on the receiving end of security abuse when it only consists of an extended time period staring at my character in a cell.

[Valkrae]

The round was rather packed with people, my department included.

I can only do so much, I'm only a human being. I tried to make sure everyone was jailed according to what I charged them with, but that was not the case.

You know how the old saying goes, "If you want something done right, Do it yourself."

[Rusty Shackleford]

Moderator PM from-PumpkingSlice: Expect sec to be dicks on rev. Just try to bear with it.

 

For some reason this concerns me more than the actual complaint itself.

[Davidchan]

Moderator PM from-PumpkingSlice: Expect sec to be dicks on rev. Just try to bear with it.

 

For some reason this concerns me more than the actual complaint itself.

 

This was my major concern as well.

General Rule #1

-Don't be a dick. We're all here to have fun, not fight and argue with assholes. Don't ruin the game for everyone else, and use common sense.

So, unless our rule set is outdated and obsolete, someone is making excuses for a non-antag to make the game less fun for others, which in my book is borderline griefing. I'm not a mod or anything, but this does strike me as a conflict of interest or double standard in place.

[Valkrae]

I've always thought of that as a more OOC rule, as it'd be asinine to tell people not to be a dick ICly. The whole point of a Rev round is to literally revolt against the Heads of Staff and CentComm, and having a nice, friendly Head of Staff would make it near impossible for the Revs to gain any momentum. I admit that I went a teensy bit overboard with it, and that I should've payed more attention to my forces as a whole.

Again, I feel as if that rule is more OOC-bound, as again, it'd be asinine to tell someone that they can't be an asshat in character. That's basically restricting someone's roleplay because people don't want to get their characters feelings hurt.

[Baka]

Moderator PM from-PumpkingSlice: Expect sec to be dicks on rev. Just try to bear with it.

 

For some reason this concerns me more than the actual complaint itself.

 

This was my major concern as well.

General Rule #1

-Don't be a dick. We're all here to have fun, not fight and argue with assholes. Don't ruin the game for everyone else, and use common sense.

So, unless our rule set is outdated and obsolete, someone is making excuses for a non-antag to make the game less fun for others, which in my book is borderline griefing. I'm not a mod or anything, but this does strike me as a conflict of interest or double standard in place.

 

 

 

It is Roleplay Rev.

You have people yelling all over mic about pay cuts, and generally overflowing telecommunication lines with "THIS IS NOT FAIR CAN YOU FUCKING BELIEVE IT."

You have people marching around, trying to break into the bar after the company you work for closed it. You, the security officer, have to step in. You, the security officer, have to step in, and stop people from mingling in one place while they should be working and making profit. Your pay was cut too, as you are not head of staff, but is still expected to enforce the law, but what is the first thing people scream about during Roleplay Rev?

"THE HEADS OF STAFF AND SECURITY MUST GO DOWN THEY ARE THE REASONING BEHIND THIS"

Remember, the paycut security officer literally doesn't get paid enough to deal with shit anymore. So it makes sense ICLY for them to be a little bit more dickish than normal.

What Pumpking meant by "being a dick" is to cause conflict WITHIN REASON. That rule was set into place honestly to stop assholish people for doing assholish things when conflict is NOT EXPECTED.

Of course, please report people if they are acting like complete garbage.

[Frances]

[thing]

Indeed.

Having to "bear" with security constitutes poor wording, though. Heads (and sec who sides with them) should still be interesting dicks, not boring or annoying ones.

[Rusty Shackleford]

From this complaint, it appears that the kind of dickery being allowed wasn't the interesting kind. It was the toss-in-the-brig-and-throw-away-the-key kind of dickery.

[Valkrae]

My security team was rather large this round, and therefore hard to track all at once.

However, I do see how what I was doing could be viewed as just plain dickery. If I'm Robert during another Rev round, I'll make sure to make it fun for everyone in terms of RP.

[Davidchan]

While you can't change the past, and I feel I have a good understanding of what you were trying to do, my suggestion is you still need to stick to your character and dynamic of your role.

The Head of Security is the guiding light of Security, you should know Standard Operating Procedure by heart and able to spout out major infractions of space law from memory. Arresting someone without declaring charges is a no no, even a paranoid HoS thinking the entire crew outside of his department is looking to shove a bomb so far up his rump that his hat lands on Ian's head should know better then to arrest someone without giving a good reason, even if its for a pathetic charge like suspicious conduct with >5 minutes brig time, if they resist all the better for you goal. Lead by example, after all, if the HoS is randomly nabbing people from the halls or in their lobby, whats to stop your officers from doing the same?

The Head of Security has the power and right to place injunctions on the crew for anything he deems could be a threat to the stability of the station, OOC it doesn't have to make sense or could knowningly turn the station into a powder keg, but IC it should be something the HoS believes. Banning visiting to the bar, making medical inform them of every incident or even forcing engineers to have an escort to wire up the solars.

The point is you have a plethora of shitty white collar crimes you can charge a person with, you should be able to spout SOMETHING off before you slap the cuffs on and if at any point you have not stated the charges before they are their brig cell you should realize that something you did is wrong. If you're not an antag, you still have to do your job to the best of your ability, doubly so for heads of staff. You don't have to make people happy, hell you don't exactly need to be fair about it and intentionally give out longer sentences and stricter punishments, but god damn it you still need to follow the basic tenants of your job.

[K0NFL1QT]

Problem is, by the time you type 'You are charged with...' that's ten seconds the suspect has used either to run away or shoot you, as ninety percent of Security-Criminal interactions go. With Sarah, if I have to chase, I spam the hailer a few times to let them know they should stop. If they don't, then it's baton/taser time and move in to secure them with cuffs. I try to announce charges at the earliest convenience. But that could be back at the brig if they have help. Of course, those who do stop or don't run in the first place get a much nicer Security response. They also get shorter brig times for not resisting, and don't run the risk of having to assault the officer to get away and thus add another infraction to their list.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Problem is, by the time you type 'You are charged with...' that's ten seconds the suspect has used either to run away or shoot you, as ninety percent of Security-Criminal interactions go. With Sarah, if I have to chase, I spam the hailer a few times to let them know they should stop. If they don't, then it's baton/taser time and move in to secure them with cuffs. I try to announce charges at the earliest convenience. But that could be back at the brig if they have help. Of course, those who do stop or don't run in the first place get a much nicer Security response. They also get shorter brig times for not resisting, and don't run the risk of having to assault the officer to get away and thus add another infraction to their list.

 

You can tell someone what they are charged with after you cuff them. The point is that they need to know at some point before they're tossed in a cell.

[Davidchan]

Last I checked, stander procedure went as followed.

1) A crime is observed/Suspect set to arrest for earlier crime or suspicions.

2) Call for person to halt.

3)If they stop moving, announce arrest them. Announce the charges if possible, and If they comply, cuff them, if they keep moving again or still ignore you, use your hailer. You should say something over Security Channel about what is going on

4) If they still do not comply/run away/prevent you from cuffing them, use the minimumforce necessary to put cuffs on this. Flash>Stun Baton>Taser>E-Gun Stun Mode> Lethal Force. It's a judgement call to you on what item to use, if your flash is used it is acceptable to step up to the stun baton, but no going straight to harm batoning or shooting them with your taser when they are not moving. Having a partner at this step who can flank or block escape routes means you are both doing your jobs correctly.

5) Once they have been cuffed, reannounce the charges, adding any additional charges they may have done such as resisting arrest, sparking a manhunt or even assault if they attacked you or someone else. Declare over security channel the arrest and their charges. If the Warden is active they should confirm, consult space law and decide on time to serve in the brig, or if they need to be upgraded to the perma-brig/prison. At this point I strongly recommend Copy-Pastaing the list of charges, so that if anyone tries to intercept and ask why you arrested the person, you can read out the charges quickly and nobody intelligent will try to free or release your prisoner.

6) Process them, update their records, and sentence them official, for light and medium infractions the Warden, Head of Security or Captain should aware of what is going on, preferably one of them present as they are formally being read their charges in the brig and the punishment they will serve. If this is the first time a person has even heard the charges against them, or they do not match what they were told when they were arrested (vandalizing a window and being arrested, being upgraded to full terrorism and sabotage is not acceptable without further evidence of their intent.)

I know that sometimes security can be a chaotic job, but you really should never be patrolling or responding to calls alone, especially since it really only takes one lucky disarm for you to loose your stun baton and find yourself buckle cuffed in the dorms while some greysuit now runs around with your ID, headset and equipment, Having a partner present can discourage a suspect from running off (having no obvious escape route) makes it easier to block people off who may try to run, and you can help each other take down particularly robust suspects who may have means to stun or reliably knock you down, just helping your partner up can make the world of difference when it comes to a dangerous criminal escaping or being sent to isolation until his trial is enacted.

[Valkrae]

I know the Standard Operating Procedure. The whole ordeal was to create a situation in which the revs had adequate reason to revolt against the station Heads.

Which, if anyone was in the medbay in the later round, is exactly what they did.