Character/Player: Safiya Isra/XXTheFurryXx, AGAIN

[the_furry]

I've never seen Safiya while in a genetics role without powers. It's all TF does. They show up, get powers, and throw lockers at people. I've been put into critical and witnessed Safiya practically kill an IA agent during an emergency by throwing lockers into people with Rafee next to them. They don't respect anyone, or anything, and only indulge in taking pictures of naked people in the showers, jumping around like a child, and hitting people with lockers silently and performing emotes of "me giggles" like a cutesie anime girl like its some joke while the person is literally fucking dying.

 

o.0 what the fucking fuck and fuck? Can I just make up things to make people look bad and post it in a complaint too? Do i even need to defend this? like really where did this come from? yes i get powers alot, do i ever use them or even touch lockers anymore? rarely, and when im touching lockers it's normally at the end of the round and i literally just pull it (not useing tk) into the shuttle. so I've no idea where this whole i do it every shift bullshit is coming from. and what's this about an IA and taking pictures of naked people? like, again can i just say random shit that's never actually been done cause that's pretty much what your entire post is. I don't think i've ever taken a naked picture of someone. soooo...what...or are you just being loud hoping the admins will listen to your irrelevant untrue rant of bullshit?

[Frances]

We need to calm down a bit.

You people need to evaluate actions for their worth and intent (intent mostly to decide how to deal with problems and talk to people). I get that the accusations of an anti-TheFurry metaclique are annoying, but so is being told you've done something bad simply because people got upset and made complaints. This is HRP. People will get upset. Concrete examples (like Hive posted) are good. Simply pointing out that people are upset is less helpful, because on Aurora that's about as observant as making a remark on the color of the sky.

This isn't an issue of genetic powers, though. One of the argument presented here is that Furry gets powers every round, when literally the sole purpose of geneticists is to deal with powers. (You can't pretend that cloning and organ printing are full-time occupations.)

If there's something to look at, it's behavior. Skull's posts are good start for outlining the issue, and tbh there isn't much we can do as a crowd except wait for him to come back with a full account of what he's observed.

And let's stop fucking cursing at each other for fucking Christ's sake.

[Guest Menown]

I don't think i've ever taken a naked picture of someone. soooo...what...or are you just being loud hoping the admins will listen to your irrelevant untrue rant of bullshit?

 

I mean, there is the time I found the photocopied pictures of Rafee I believe in the library from when the picture was taken in the shower. Unless that was another group of catbeasts that were involved. Either way, this isn't really relevant in the complaint, and shouldn't really be considered as evidence for a genetics chucklefuckery complaint.

[hivefleetchicken]

And furthermore, I have indeed seen you hitting people with shit for no reason as Safiya while with Rafee with your powers and its cancerous. Especially when you give Rafee powers (I hope you stopped doing this one) because then it's just you two chucklefucking together as cancer cats. You should calm down and start legitimately defending your points instead of just once again dismissing it all as OOC grudge slander to fursecute you.

EDIT: I ain't even mad tho

Edited December 31, 2015 by Guest

[Keknar]

This topic is being temporarily locked so staff can review it.

[TishinaStalker]

Alright, now that the New Year is here and I have spent quite a while investigating this and seeing how else things could turn out, there's two issues I can see:

1) Both of you seriously need to learn when to stay hit. One person hit you, so you HAVE to hit back. They hit you again? Hit back again! No, that's not what you should do. That is exactly how things spiral out of control every single time. If you want to stop a situation like that from getting out of control, then stay hit, and leave the other to their own devices. Simple.

2) Slamming people with lockers with TK is not okay; especially for a non-antag geneticist. Again, this simply could've not happened if you two followed the issue above, but neither didn't, and it escalated to this. Regardless, slamming people with lockers via TK is a gross misuse of powers and can and will get people job banned (based on situation) for this similar to misuse with other job only gear (See: Detective's revolver, Science's RnD products, Robotic's mechs). Along with that, don't trap people in maintenance halls. That's pretty crappy and is the only thing players are permitted to ahelp to get out of because accidents happen when code is so stupid it doesn't let you move these objects to the side if the target tile is diagonal to you.

This all being said. Learn to stay hit because otherwise you're just acting like a child and it's really hard for you to argue your case once things escalate because you kept trying to meet force with force. A note (not a warning) will be placed on both of you for staff to keep track that you have kept trying to meet force with force which caused a situation to spiral out of control, but Furry's note will include the locker slamming.

Vana, learn to stay hit. You don't need to pay everything back in kind. Revenge does nothing but cause more trouble and it totally did in this situation. Furry, don't slam people with lockers. If you want a quote that speaks true to every Geneticists, "With great power comes great responsibility". I don't want to job ban anyone, preferably, but behavior like this (i.e. locker slamming people) will have to force my hand if it continues.

I will now unlock the thread for the next 24 hours if there's more that needs to be discussed. Tomorrow morning, once I wake up, I will lock the thread and mark it as resolved.

[the_furry]

I’m satisfied with this resolution. I do have two questions concerning the use of telekinesis in game. I want to make sure I’m following the rules to avoid any sort of job ban in the future.

One, are we just not allowed to hit people with lockers unless it’s a life or death situation? I never really considered tk to be on the same level as a revolver that has lethal consequences for misuse. Maybe more like the annoyance of a flash. So I always took it as if someones harassing you to a great extent its ok to use telekinesis. Is this not the case? If it’s not I can tell you it’s not outlined in any rules and it really should be as at first glance the use of telekinesis doesn’t appear to be something that should be only used in life and death situations or compared to the seriousness of a revolver. At first glance TK appears to be something that can be safely used to harass someone back that is harassing you, be it a childish thing to do yes, but I always thought it was allowable (with the risk of suffering in game consequences like arrest or demotion, but not ooc jobban). Again, along the same lines of an officer flashing someone that’s causing harassment or an engineer making makeshift restraints, or simply pushing someone over that’s pushed you over, I always considered TK to be as serious as that. If I’m wrong I’d need to know.

Two, this is in relation to the first question, can I get an outline of what TK can actually be used for? I mean aside from moving a box from one side of the room to another, it appears that you’re saying TK is only to be used in antag situations and nothing else. Even someone is harassing you to a great extent am I not allowed to use TK to try and push them back or impede them in anyway?

I understand just using TK to slam lockers into random people is easily a version of harassment and misuse, but that’s not what the situation here is. I understand I’m not getting a warning now but I want to know what is considered an allowable usage of TK to avoid future warnings.

[TishinaStalker]

if someones harassing you to a great extent its ok to use telekinesis. Is this not the case?

 

That is most definitely not the case. You can get them away from you, but attacking, no. That's being downright irresponsible and toelines self-antagging based on how it goes down. If you're slamming lockers into people solely because they were annoying you, then you need to rethink things over. You don't need specific guidelines, this should be pretty common sense. Be responsible and be reasonable. Security personnel don't go around flashing people because they were being annoyed unless they're going to arrest people; contrary to popular belief based on what I know as an admin. Coupled with that, engineers that think about making restraints to get people always tend to ahelp first to make sure they're not breaking rules. When in doubt, you can always ahelp and see if it'd be okay to do X if you doubt yourself on its legitimacy.

 

Even someone is harassing you to a great extent am I not allowed to use TK to try and push them back or impede them in anyway?

 

This could be acceptable, for example. You can push them away or in general get them away from you would be fine. Bludgeoning them with massive objects is not, on the other hand.

[MagnificentMelkior]

Stuff about TK

Since this could be establishing some sort of admin precedence, I'd like to put my two cents in. Your larger point I have no issue with, but if you move an open locker one square over into someone it reports that they were "slammed" but does about the same damage as when you throw a paper into someone: enough to flash their health display to green for a second or two and then back to 100. I don't know if this should be considered a serious attack, as the intention here would not be to slam them just to slam them, but to enclose them in the locker.

Does this change anything?

[Guest Menown]

I don't know if this should be considered a serious attack, as the intention here would not be to slam them just to slam them, but to enclose them in the locker.

 

No, you're right. It's attempted kidnapping not to mention a battery with a locker as well as neglect of duty for misusing the powers you obtained from your workplace. It's nothing serious at all. At all. At all. AT. ALL.

[Frances]

No, you're right. It's attempted kidnapping not to mention a battery with a locker as well as neglect of duty for misusing the powers you obtained from your workplace. It's nothing serious at all. At all. At all. AT. ALL.

Context is important. I saw people lock a friend in a medbay locker while they were SSD once (they were friends both ICly and OOCly so nothing wrong there really). These kind of pranks aren't kidnapping, much like calling your friend a bitch for beating you at the arcade probably isn't defamation or slander.

[TishinaStalker]

I don't know if this should be considered a serious attack, as the intention here would not be to slam them just to slam them, but to enclose them in the locker.

 

No, you're right. It's attempted kidnapping not to mention a battery with a locker as well as neglect of duty for misusing the powers you obtained from your workplace. It's nothing serious at all. At all. At all. AT. ALL.

 

Sarcasm barring. Attempting kidnapping is actually a pretty serious offense. Lets also not forget that you're still flinging a, roughly, 5 ft. tall steel object at someone. From an IC perspective, this is pretty serious and is most definitely nothing like being hit by a piece of paper; regardless of what it mechanically does. From an OOC perspective, this is still horribly silly misuse of powers.

 

lock a friend in a medbay locker while they were SSD once (they were friends both ICly and OOCly so nothing wrong there really).

 

Being a friend of a player does not excuse you from breaking the rules. SSD players are strictly off-limits, but the only way this could be okay, I guess, is if you moved them into a locker in the same room they were in and didn't ID lock it. Aside from that, moving SSDs into reasonable places (brig meeting room, dorms, recovery ward, etc.) is okay too; for clarification.

[Guest Menown]

Misusing genetic powers in an attempt to put random people in lockers isn't the same as locking a friend in a locker while they're AFK/SSD, Frances. I've seen Safiya do this in escape several times, to random people while she snickers to her catbeast friends.

Throwing lockers knowing they don't do much damage per hit with intent to annoy people, or trap them in lockers for no reason other than keks and giggles is blatant chucklefuckery. It'd be like running up to random people and stabbing them with a pen, knowing it's not going to hurt them due to the lack of brute damage it applies.

[MagnificentMelkior]

I don't know if this should be considered a serious attack, as the intention here would not be to slam them just to slam them, but to enclose them in the locker.

 

No, you're right. It's attempted kidnapping not to mention a battery with a locker as well as neglect of duty for misusing the powers you obtained from your workplace. It's nothing serious at all. At all. At all. AT. ALL.

I really hate this meme of throwing the book at a criminal while ignoring all reason. Sure, its kidnapping/false imprisonment if they are actually imprisoned at some point (an unlocked locker being closed on them would not constitute this unless you were actively reclosing the locker to prevent them from leaving). But even then, neglect of duty? Not at all. Neglect of duty is for when you underperform at your job. There is nothing preventing you from clocking in an adequate job performance even if you were to trap and murder people with telekinesis. They are unrelated.

Anyway in response to Tishina: I'm not sure it would hurt enough to be considered an assault from one tile away. If you move the locker from a greater distance it will actually inflict damage (I think) or at least it should. Mass (5kg) is irrelevent: Mass*velocity^2 is the relevent stat. and the speed that a locker moves when you tell it to move one tile away is pretty slow. If it were meant to be more painful, then why wouldn't it have been coded that way? throwing things at people with telekinesis is a well defined field of coding it seems: its just another form of ranged combat. And it seems to work as intended for everything that isn't itself a broken item (like telekinetically throwing a pen at someone? idk)

[Guest Menown]

Neglect of duty is a failure to perform your job to a satisfactory standard. Your job isn't to trap people in lockers with your topkek mind powers. As somebody that's played security, I've been called by many RDs/CMOs for geneticists chucklefucking with their powers, and more often than not they've been slapped with Neglect of Duty.

[MagnificentMelkior]

Neglect of duty is a failure to perform your job to a satisfactory standard. Your job isn't to trap people in lockers with your topkek mind powers. As somebody that's played security, I've been called by many RDs/CMOs for geneticists chucklefucking with their powers, and more often than not they've been slapped with Neglect of Duty.

That doesn't make the charge legally correct. I know that sec and RDs operate in sometimes less than legal fashion, it doesn't mean they are right. If you do the duties of your job, and then [something bad] people on the side, it doesn't constitute neglect of duty. The correct charge to levy imo would be minor assault, and kidnapping if it got to that level.

[Eliot Clef]

EDIT: TishinaStalker is correct, Neglect of Duty discussion should go elsewhere. I can't find the delete option, so feel free to delete this post. Edited January 2, 2016 by Guest

[TishinaStalker]

What are you guys even arguing about. None of this has anything to do with the complaint. Please go elsewhere.

[TishinaStalker]

Notes have been added to both players' ckeys on server. Locking and archiving thread.