Player Complaint: Chaznoodles (Josen Keelin)

[CampinKiller]

BYOND Key: CampinKiller

Player Byond Key: Chaznoodles

Staff involved: None (Garn/Alb if you count getting the ckey/asking if it is a complaint or IR)

Reason for complaint: Metagaming, behaving in a way a Head of Staff shouldn't, beating arrested players to death as HoS (basically, behaving in the way someone with a head whitelist shouldn't).

Approximate Date/Time: 01/05 @ approx 8:15 PM

Since the round involved antags, I was directed towards a player complaint.

While I don't have screenshots, as a result of the logs scrolling off the page, Josen Keelin (aka Chaznoodles) was metagaming the vampire Rin Fukuimoto, after their arrest. First, he ordered her to be permanently locked into Solitary, without much of a reason. He claimed it was the charge (Sexual Assault), but solitary is reserved for excessively violent/insane prisoners, and Rin was not either in this case. He then later came down with some virus, and claimed that as a reason, saying it was her that infected him, despite the 3-4 other people who she had touched and were completely fine. He did this, it seems, to keep her locked in the Brig with no chance of escape after her vampiring was discovered early on, despite having no indication she had done anything beyond the Sexual Assault.

(For note, the Sexual Assault was not ERP, but what we charged her with after she was caught doing vampire things).

Fast forward, Rin is set free by an officer named Kyle Johnson, who was against her arrest from the get-go, and (may?) have been enthralled or charmed by Rin somehow. She shoots Keelin in the face with his e-pistol, and she is then restrained and cuffed, being injured in the process. Keelin then, for whatever reason, stands up and beats her with his baton several times, forcing her into crit. I (Marc Price) start CPR, and right after I get her conscious, she does the glare, and floors me and another officer. Keelin then charges in there and literally beats her to death, for no reason other than "she was trying to escape." How she could possibly have escaped, in handcuffs, and injured with bullets in her, I do not know. Shortly after, as I (Price) tell him he is going to be arrested for Manslaughter, he says "Get out of my way, fuckboy" and then floors me with his baton.

It should be noted, he continually referred to other officers as fuckboys (not an offense in and of itself, but it was ridiculously annoying after the 50th time), and acted more like a spoiled brat than a head of staff, throughout the entire round.

In all, Keelin behaved more like a baldie Sec officer than a Head of Security, which is absolutely ridiculous behavior from a whitelisted player. To be honest, I don't think he should keep his whitelist after witnessing something like this, given past incidents I've seen Keelin involved in.

Relevant screenshots:

https://gyazo.com/1a5c655127b0277b17c8084dae426975

https://gyazo.com/de58c32ae404e39294420a12c0fb6215

[Eliot Clef]

He did this, it seems, to keep her locked in the Brig with no chance of escape after her vampiring was discovered early on, despite having no indication she had done anything beyond the Sexual Assault.

(For note, the Sexual Assault was not ERP, but what we charged her with after she was caught doing vampire things).

 

I'm on the fence about this one, but I'm not sure you really want a Hold-Until-Transfer sexual offender to be out where you might have to put other prisoners. This is some serious shit. At any rate, the Sexual Assault thing was pretty much confirmed with the victim, so there's no question that Rin should've been locked down pretty hard.

Solitary may be iffy, but probably not completely out of the question.

 

Fast forward, Rin is set free by an officer named Kyle Johnson, who was against her arrest from the get-go, and (may?) have been enthralled or charmed by Rin somehow. She shoots Keelin in the face with his e-pistol, and she is then restrained and cuffed, being injured in the process. Keelin then, for whatever reason, stands up and beats her with his baton several times, forcing her into crit. I (Marc Price) start CPR, and right after I get her conscious, she does the glare, and floors me and another officer. Keelin then charges in there and literally beats her to death, for no reason other than "she was trying to escape." How she could possibly have escaped, in handcuffs, and injured with bullets in her, I do not know. Shortly after, as I (Price) tell him he is going to be arrested for Manslaughter, he says "Get out of my way, fuckboy" and then floors me with his baton.

 

You're missing some details that make this a lot more acceptable. Rin was evaporating/teleporting around even while in cuffs. Her getting ahold of Keelin's equipment was actually AFTER she was cornered and caught (and, I think, cuffed) at least once, so we knew for a reasonable fact that containment was hard-to-impossible, she had lethal intent, and unloaded a laser pistol into a man who was already on the ground. At that point Rin had pretty much already demonstrated escape and retaliation capacity even from a standstill of being objectively secure, and even I was ready to execute to prevent further incident.

 

It should be noted, he continually referred to other officers as fuckboys (not an offense in and of itself, but it was ridiculously annoying after the 50th time), and acted more like a spoiled brat than a head of staff, throughout the entire round.

In all, Keelin behaved more like a baldie Sec officer than a Head of Security, which is absolutely ridiculous behavior from a whitelisted player. To be honest, I don't think he should keep his whitelist after witnessing something like this, given past incidents I've seen Keelin involved in.

Relevant screenshots:

https://gyazo.com/1a5c655127b0277b17c8084dae426975

https://gyazo.com/de58c32ae404e39294420a12c0fb6215

 

... But yeah, Keelin was kind of a shit in a lot of other ways that could get him in trouble as an HoS. The department was pretty factionalized and hostile internally all-around, and Keelin was contributing to it pretty heavily.

[CampinKiller]

She hadn't broken out of handcuffs, she just stood up (with 5 bullets from the Detective in her, mind you) and shoved one of the 4-5 people in the room over, to which Keelin hit her with the baton. The first hit floored her, and after that, just critted her. The only reason she got out of cuffs the first time was she glared the officer cuffing her probably a half-second before she would've been cuffed. But even then, continually beating someone after they've been shot and are on the floor seems excessive, even for someone who was shot.

[Chaznoodles]

RIn was placed into Solitary as a result of performing nonconsensual sexual acts on an Engineer to which she admitted whilst I was dragging her to the Brig, so I slapped her into Solitary, as this would also involve charges of kidnapping and assault. Not someone you want running around the station. At no time was I metagaming as you so accuse. With the virus, the only person the character had been in close contact all shift was RIn, thereby that was the first thought that would pop into the character's head. It also gave the character reason to keep Rin locked in Solitary, as the character has a very strict policy towards sexual assault.

Rin was released by Kyle Johnson, which someone has noticed a common theme with those two metafriending, during vampire round especially. We catch up with Rin in Tool Storage Maintenance where she repeatedly Mist Forms away from us (I was under the impression Mist Form was coded to only be useable when nobody could see them?). This marked RIn out as a threat to the character, as they would not be easily restrained. We caught them again in the Locker Room, where Keelin was the first one to respond. I pulled the energy pistol at which point Rin flashed from her eyes and stunned me through sunglasses, marking the character out as a higher threat. She picked up the pistol, switched it to lethal and unloaded it into the character's face, taking health to flashing red. The Detective unloads the revolver in her direction, forcing her into the washing machine area where we corner her. As nobody, you especially, are doing anything to stun her, I pull my telebaton and smash her to the floor, breaking her leg in the process. You proceed to whine about this and cuff her. She does the eyeflash again, knocking both nearby officers to the floor. As the nearest Security member standing, I respond fast, stalk over and kick her in the head three to five times, in order to stop her disappearing again and escaping in order to attempt murder again. She deathgasps and dies.

 

She shoots Keelin in the face with his e-pistol, and she is then restrained and cuffed, being injured in the process. Keelin then, for whatever reason, stands up and beats her with his baton several times, forcing her into crit.

 

Care to note, in your logs this is shown to be a lie, as Rin was only cuffed after I slapped her to the floor, as mentioned by Meow.

I repeatedly called for Medical to attend with medical supplies to stabilise Rin during the period before the kicking. After the kicking, I ask them to bring a bodybag and meds for me. You proceed to corner me in the washing machine area, and due to you pulling the cuffer Rin I was unable to move you out the way to reach the Doctor standing at the table with medical supplies which the character knows would stop the pain from his face and stabiise him. I ask you repeatedly to move at which point you repeat the same "You're under arrest for manslaughter". At this point I realised you weren't going to move, so I drew my telebaton and whacked you one, dropping you to the floor so I could move to the Doctor and receive treatment. You stand and start whining and bitching, repeating your mantra. I look at myself and decide to go wash, so head off to the washroom, you following me and repeating yourself like a broken record all the way. I wash up and the Captain asks me to meet him at the Bridge which I acknowledge. I come out of the bathroom and you continue stalking me with your mantra. I say I have to attend a meeting. You draw your taser and point it at me. I radio this in which causes you to fire. The nearby forensitech-cum-officer drops you with a well-placed baton, I cuff you, and you're taken away. Over the course of your stalking of me, the Captain repeatedly ordered you to desist, which you ignored.

On the fuckboy note, you were the only one I called a fuckboy, due to your one-track mind of 'must arrest', and your grudging displayed against me. To be honest, you deserved the title in more than one way, for you were both fucking retarded and a complete cockmuppet in your actions. You attempted to arrest a man on the verge of death, continued whining about it, then failed to do so when you actually plucked up the courage to do it.

I'd politely ask for this complaint to be closed before it degenerates into fuckboy being even saltier, and bringing in Jer'Koff the catbeast.

 

The department was pretty factionalized and hostile internally all-around, and Keelin was contributing to it pretty heavily.

 

You try dealing with a department in which you've got fuckboy Price whining about arresting you constantly, Jer'Koff the catbeast trying to incite a friendly gecko lizard to violence, and Rin and Johnson doing whatever metafriends do. When two staff members repeatedly ignore orders there's a problem on my hands, which I could unfortunately not deal with due to being stuck in Medbay for half an hour due to Rin hitting me with Grave Fever, otherwise both fuckboy and Jer'Koff would've been out of Security faster than a catbeast can complain.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Guest

[CampinKiller]

Actually, when you got shot, you were disarmed and they immediately opened fire. Tasers, apparently, don't go around tables, so me shooting did nothing. Al-Hamani, the Detective, managed to shoot her about 5 times before you started beating her with a telescopic baton (which floors in 1 hit anyways). And I didn't corner you - in fact, after starting CPR I never moved until you shoved past me to beat Rin anyways.

Re: Metagaming, they're still locked up in the communal brig, and not going anywhere, and if they did, you'd know (assuming you put in the tracking implant required by regulations). My main issue there is that people get locked in solitary and left there to rot, with their only choice to SSD or sit around and hope something happens.

But, yeah, the rest of that post just proves my point, with the utter load of ad hominem attacks against me, my character, other characters and players. I'm not sure if you expect personal attacks are really going to get you anywhere, but it's fairly amusing regardless. Your behavior only proves to me that you shouldn't be whitelisted if that's the way you see anyone who remotely disagrees with you or complains about you.

[Eliot Clef]

Re: Metagaming, they're still locked up in the communal brig, and not going anywhere, and if they did, you'd know (assuming you put in the tracking implant required by regulations). My main issue there is that people get locked in solitary and left there to rot, with their only choice to SSD or sit around and hope something happens.

 

This is a fair criticism, but isolating a sexual offender isn't really all that unreasonable to me either. (Except, I think, that she was thrown in without a PDA or a radio.)

It is, however, true that Rin was never given a tracking implant as dictated by her offense.

[CampinKiller]

Also, I feel it necessary to mention that you had, per regulation, committed manslaughter when Rin died, which is why Price was telling you you were under arrest. When you hit him with the stun baton, he was not remotely happy, and decided that you most definitely had to serve brig time.

To add to that, you justified this by always acting in the interests of NanoTrasen per your implant. However, when given a lawful and valid order by the Captain (and demotion) you subsequently refused, and said something along the lines of "If there's a problem, Central will tell me," which doesn't add up at all with you following your loyalty implant, given that the Captain is above you in the chain of command.

[Guest Menown]

Your own presented logs show you failing to put the cuffs on because Raniyah disarmed you. You had to put them on twice before you actually managed to cuff her, so the idea of her still being a threat because you people didn't have a handle on the situation because you were all working against each other isn't too farfetched.

The way I see it, from these logs, the whole team was a mess. Somebody with flashes inbedded in their eyes would probably be detained until they'd be ripped out. Somebody actively attempting to murder a HoS would be detained until transfer. That whole team appears to be a clusterfuck of epic proportions, and nobody really seems to be at fault, just from what I see in the logs you've presented.

[Eliot Clef]

Also, I feel it necessary to mention that you had, per regulation, committed manslaughter when Rin died, which is why Price was telling you you were under arrest. When you hit him with the stun baton, he was not remotely happy, and decided that you most definitely had to serve brig time.

To add to that, you justified this by always acting in the interests of NanoTrasen per your implant. However, when given a lawful and valid order by the Captain (and demotion) you subsequently refused, and said something along the lines of "If there's a problem, Central will tell me," which doesn't add up at all with you following your loyalty implant, given that the Captain is above you in the chain of command.

 

To be perfectly clear: I contacted the Captain during the Keelin's arrest and it had nothing to do with Rin dying. Rin died because she presented a lethal threat and had demonstrated herself to be able to escape and incapacitate large numbers of people, with some very clear murderous intent, on top of the sexual predation she had already acted on.

Your attempted arrest on this basis was not justified, and at least two others present at Rin's arrest were prepared to kill her. If you think we're wrong that's ok, but the Captain didn't agree and neither did a lot of Security surrounding you.

 

Your own presented logs show you failing to put the cuffs on because Raniyah disarmed you. You had to put them on twice before you actually managed to cuff her, so the idea of her still being a threat because you people didn't have a handle on the situation because you were all working against each other isn't too farfetched.

The way I see it, from these logs, the whole team was a mess. Somebody with flashes inbedded in their eyes would probably be detained until they'd be ripped out. Somebody actively attempting to murder a HoS would be detained until transfer. That whole team appears to be a clusterfuck of epic proportions, and nobody really seems to be at fault, just from what I see in the logs you've presented.

 

Security was divided along several lines. Kyle Johnson was a thrall of Rin Fukuimoto, and they were both Officers. So there's a bit of Security. There was a Tajaran Officer whose name I don't remember, who started dissent when Rin was arrested and placed in isolation. Johnson was a thrall so he joined in the dissent immediately. Marc Price, I don't remember if he was being a problem at this point in time, but there were some internal problems related to him that I think mostly had to do with this manslaughter business.

We also had an IAA weighing in pretty regularly for a while. Stefanis, or something like that? I don't remember that name clearly either. Joseff Yahtzee was the Warden, and he was cooperative at pretty much all times with everyone.

Officer Tajaran-Whose-Name-I-Forget was pretty much an asshole about Rin being locked up (in solitary), screeching about abuse of power from the word go and generally starting a bunch of social strife. The IAA got in on asking about this and as a result of reports to him/her (?) there was more social strife that carried on over the radio between Officer Tajaran, IAA, Johnson, Keelin...

Shas'kala Sakaei was our CSI person, and Ranniyah was our Detective. Sakaei got into a dispute with Officer Tajaran over comms for a good long while, and they went back and forth about dueling for a little while I think.

The actual pursuit of Rin was a chaotic shitfest because of the close quarters. When I arrived at the locker room where Rin was finally pinned down (as previously mentioned it was in the area with the washing machine and dryer, so there was only room for a couple of people), Rin had Keelin's laser pistol and people were clustered in that area really tightly. I decided they had it taken care of when I tried to move in and just got in the way, and left. (You can see the point where I leave where you can no longer see the AI Private radio, I was coordinating with the AI on and off during this mess.) I was there long enough to witness the shooting of Keelin by Rin and of Rin by Ranniyah, but I was gone by the time they were calling for medbay.

In summary, yeah. It was a mess. 3/4ths of Security was fighting with Security. Later on the Captain ordered Keelin arrested for contributing to the constant shit-stirring churn. Marc Price was also slated for demotion, I think, but we got a crew transfer so it didn't matter much.

[Garnascus]

I was watching for the majority of this round, i cant say i think chaz really did anything wrong here. He isolated a confirmed sexual predator/kidnapper and shortly after brigging them came down with a terrible disease (vampire shutdown disease). I dont see how its meta-gaming to put two and two together HEY MAYBE RIN GAVE IT TO ME. That being said its the head of securities job to keep a handle on his department know whats going on. With my security force arguging and fighting one another and myself dealing with ebola in medbay i probably would have isolated a sexual predator too.

The incident near the washroom was, in my opinion just escalation of force. rin had JUST unloaded a lethal energy pistol into the HoS, glared and stunned him, and also teleported around with mist form evading arrest. Did he beat someone to death who was dieing in crit on the floor? yeah. was it justifiable given the circumstances? i think so yeah. Personally, i thought the RP of "you killed her you monster" and "i did what i had to do" was an interesting RP angle especially when it came from the already tense stand off when she was isolated to begin with.

Why cant we just learn to roll with situations like this?

[Chaznoodles]

But, yeah, the rest of that post just proves my point, with the utter load of ad hominem attacks against me, my character, other characters and players. I'm not sure if you expect personal attacks are really going to get you anywhere, but it's fairly amusing regardless. Your behavior only proves to me that you shouldn't be whitelisted if that's the way you see anyone who remotely disagrees with you or complains about you.

 

Just because I called you a fuckboy at the end doesn't disprove the rest of the post. Git gud, lad. Just because you got salty over failing to order around your superior, then failing to arrest said superior, doesn't give you the right to pull a fast one and make a complaint in an attempt to moderate the sodium in your system, and remove someone you dislike.

:^)

[Owen]

I was the Captain this round. Now, this round was a very bad round for Security in general. There were lots of things that happened that made it turn out with the demotions of Security members. I do not feel whatsoever that any OOCly punishment should be taken as it was basically finished up ICly with the detainment and demotion of Josen Keelin and the demotion to be of Marc Price.

[CampinKiller]

But, yeah, the rest of that post just proves my point, with the utter load of ad hominem attacks against me, my character, other characters and players. I'm not sure if you expect personal attacks are really going to get you anywhere, but it's fairly amusing regardless. Your behavior only proves to me that you shouldn't be whitelisted if that's the way you see anyone who remotely disagrees with you or complains about you.

 

Just because I called you a fuckboy at the end doesn't disprove the rest of the post. Git gud, lad. Just because you got salty over failing to order around your superior, then failing to arrest said superior, doesn't give you the right to pull a fast one and make a complaint in an attempt to moderate the sodium in your system, and remove someone you dislike.

:^)

 

I'm not sure where you get the inclination that I was salty, at any point, considering nothing bad really happened to my character IC (besides a demotion with a solid 2 minutes remaining in the shift). I just consider the way Keelin behaves to be utterly unacceptable as a head of staff. I'm also not sure where you get the idea I dislike you, considering when I worked with you as staff on Colonial Marines, I actually was one of the people who defended you before Apop removed you. However, if you want to continue to call me a fuckboy for disagreeing with you both IC'ly and OOC'ly over your actions, that is certainly you prerogative.

 

The incident near the washroom was, in my opinion just escalation of force. rin had JUST unloaded a lethal energy pistol into the HoS, glared and stunned him, and also teleported around with mist form evading arrest. Did he beat someone to death who was dieing in crit on the floor? yeah. was it justifiable given the circumstances? i think so yeah. Personally, i thought the RP of "you killed her you monster" and "i did what i had to do" was an interesting RP angle especially when it came from the already tense stand off when she was isolated to begin with.

 

I could see whacking someone a little extra, but the punching followed by 5-6 solid whacks from a baton, on someone with five bullets in them and surrounded by a team of Security, who clearly isn't going anywhere, seems excessive to me, since the baton bashing probably helped stop her breathing, and the punches after she was breathing again from CPR just outright killed her. I highly doubt NT would keep/hire a HoS who beats suspects to death while in custody, and continually stirs internal trouble in their department for the better part of the round.

 

Your attempted arrest on this basis was not justified, and at least two others present at Rin's arrest were prepared to kill her. If you think we're wrong that's ok, but the Captain didn't agree and neither did a lot of Security surrounding you.

 

I would disagree it wasn't justified, given these:

Excessive Force in Detainment: Repeatedly batoning a prisoner after they've been handcuffed...

Severe Use of Excessive Force: To put a victim in a near-death state in defence of yourself or others, or seriously injuring a suspect while attempting to detain them.

At minimum, Keelin was in violation of at least one of these, given she was put into crit and stopped breathing as a result of his actions. IC'ly Price insisted on Manslaughter, given that Keelin actually killed her when she was in handcuffs.

 

I dont see how its meta-gaming to put two and two together HEY MAYBE RIN GAVE IT TO ME.

 

Well, given that the 3 other people who had touched Rin had nothing wrong with them, I don't see how it's a logical conclusion to go,"Clearly it was Rin who infected me."

As a side note, the only reason I made this complaint is because the way Keelin has been played, that I've seen over several rounds, is absolutely atrocious, and this was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. If someone can honestly behave like a baldie Sec Officer as a head of staff, then that is a serious problem in my opinion.

[Chaznoodles]

I could see whacking someone a little extra, but the punching followed by 5-6 solid whacks from a baton, on someone with five bullets in them and surrounded by a team of Security, who clearly isn't going anywhere, seems excessive to me

 

Oooeeeooo solid lie again. Check your logs. The 5-6 baton bashes came before Rin was cuffed on the floor. The punches came after the baton bashes, a good minute or two after, when you got flashed so I punched her to death with three punches.

 

I would disagree it wasn't justified, given these:

Excessive Force in Detainment: Repeatedly batoning a prisoner after they've been handcuffed...

Severe Use of Excessive Force: To put a victim in a near-death state in defence of yourself or others, or seriously injuring a suspect while attempting to detain them.

At minimum, Keelin was in violation of at least one of these, given she was put into crit and stopped breathing as a result of his actions. IC'ly Price insisted on Manslaughter, given that Keelin actually killed her when she was in handcuffs.

 

Failure to Execute an Order: To ignore or disregard a superior's valid orders.

Neglect of Duty: To fail to perform a job to a satisfactory standard.

Two crimes you were guilty of, prior to the escape of Rin. If I had ordered your arrest for these, you wouldn't have been around to receive a baton to the leg, nor to screech unendingly for my arrest. I didn't though, because I thought you wouldn't be that much of a pain and didn't want to disrupt your round by throwing you in a cell for up to 25 minutes as well as demoting you.

 

Well, given that the 3 other people who had touched Rin had nothing wrong with them, I don't see how it's a logical conclusion to go,"Clearly it was Rin who infected me."

 

One was a catbeast so has a different immune system, the second was an officer who manifested symptoms including coughing and sneezing, the third was the one who had been sexually assaulted. They were handled with care and no symptoms manifested. It's perfectly logical to assume contact was the way this was transmitted.

 

As a side note, the only reason I made this complaint is because the way Keelin has been played, that I've seen over several rounds, is absolutely atrocious, and this was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. If someone can honestly behave like a baldie Sec Officer as a head of staff, then that is a serious problem in my opinion.

 

If it wasn't for the constant people who take the same attitude to you in regards to legitimate orders, then this wouldn't be an issue. However, when it comes to people constantly disregarding orders in favour of chasing me down for doing the job, whining over both public and security comms about 'how bad I am', and situations like that, it's usual that you'll get a reaction that you'll get pissy over and make a complaint. If you're the one disregarding orders, maybe it should've been you as the subject of the complaint, as your ceaseless whining and calls for arrest throughout the round disrupted my round to the point where I would've been happy to put a muzzle on you and leave you in the top solitary cell. However, I didn't, because I know better than that, and it was more fun seeing you salty.

I'm not in the habit of getting involved in pointless bickering with people who refuse to look at things from a different viewpoint, or keep the view that 'I'm always right', so unless you have something constructive to put forward, then I'll be watching the thread.

[CampinKiller]

Please, enlighten me as to when my character neglected his duty and disobeyed orders prior to the Rin escape.

Also, the part about the officer manifesting symptoms is a lie, given that I played said officer and never had any sort of symptoms.

Also, Price never uttered a word over public comms about you, or called for your arrest prior to the Rin incident. In fact, the only time he really said anything over Security comms against Keelin was when he was violating procedure and causing arguments to flare up with other Security members/threatening them. And even after the incident, he kept anything about it out of public comms, and on the Security channel.

And I did not say she was cuffed when you began to beat her with the baton in the prior post. She was down after the first hit, with 5 bullets in her, and not going anywhere. A logical person could probably conclude that she was subdued at that point, and seconds away from being in handcuffs.

[Eliot Clef]

 

Your attempted arrest on this basis was not justified, and at least two others present at Rin's arrest were prepared to kill her. If you think we're wrong that's ok, but the Captain didn't agree and neither did a lot of Security surrounding you.

 

I would disagree it wasn't justified, given these:

Excessive Force in Detainment: Repeatedly batoning a prisoner after they've been handcuffed...

Severe Use of Excessive Force: To put a victim in a near-death state in defence of yourself or others, or seriously injuring a suspect while attempting to detain them.

At minimum, Keelin was in violation of at least one of these, given she was put into crit and stopped breathing as a result of his actions. IC'ly Price insisted on Manslaughter, given that Keelin actually killed her when she was in handcuffs.

 

You're welcome to this opinion, but bear in mind that Security standard behavior when an antagonist displays abilities and conduct like Rin Fukuimoto did is pretty much exactly what happened. Teleporting, mass-stunning, weapon-stealing-and-unloading-into-some-guy's-face antags get beaten to death because there's nothing Security can actually do to pin them down for very long, and they're a clear danger to the people around them.

Ranniyah filled Rin full of bullets because Ranniyah was trying to kill her. I approached Rin with baton out with the express intent of killing her after watching her empty an energy pistol into Keelin's head, and backed off only because I decided it was already handled and I was in the way.

So far, Admin (Garnascus) opinion is that nothing inappropriate happened in the combat engagement, and the same was true (as far as I could tell) of your IC leadership and peers in Security.

I'm not saying your opinion is necessarily unreasonable on its face (frankly beating Rin to death while she was down with five bullets in her is a pretty cold thing to do for anybody but Keelin, who was literally shot until his face melted and who therefore had a pretty reasonable emotional excuse to just smash her head in), but I am saying that if you act on it in the future you're probably going to end up in situations similar to this one where you get stunned down by your co-workers and shoved out of the department.

[Alberyk]

Rin was a massive threat and tried to kill the head of security with a weapon, and that is pretty much the reason Raniyah fired against her using the revolver. Also, meow has the point that I disarmed you, by accident since we were pretty much in the small area of the washing machines and she was not cuffed at all. So, attacking her while she was still using her powers was justified.

Besides, I really doubt that attacking Rin with the baton was really decisive to her death, she was hit by 5 .38 bullets (around 100 of brute damage, besides the point blank shoots), which caused internal bleeding and probably severe organ damage.

If you can't contain a threat by the means you have at hand, killing them is perfectly fine.

[Guest]

To be clear. By corporate regs, escaping from perma is punishable by death and borgification. If you attempt to make this reg more reasonable, you'll probably downgrade it only to death. While you may or may not agree with this being an appropriate punishment, it still kinda nullifies the manslaughter charge since it comes from the same book.

Furthermore, a head of staff that consistantly annoys their underlings for no reason other than being able to shouldn't be one. So, yes, calling your staff "Fuckboys" constantly is not fitting of a head of staff if it borders harassment, but that one open to interpratiation.

And lastly, I think accusations of metagaming shouldn't be thrown around so easily. Majority of antag players are boring and predictable, while most of us try very hard to suspend our disbelief concerning their shitty behavior, so failing to do so completely shouldn't be grounds for metagaming charge, imo.

[Chaznoodles]

Please, enlighten me as to when my character neglected his duty and disobeyed orders prior to the Rin escape.

 

I believe I already stated this.

 

Also, the part about the officer manifesting symptoms is a lie, given that I played said officer and never had any sort of symptoms.

 

An officer developed a cough and sneezes after being in contact with the prisoner. Medical confirmed this.

 

Also, Price never uttered a word over public comms about you, or called for your arrest prior to the Rin incident. In fact, the only time he really said anything over Security comms against Keelin was when he was violating procedure and causing arguments to flare up with other Security members/threatening them. And even after the incident, he kept anything about it out of public comms, and on the Security channel.

 

I believe it was you I was telling to stop, as you completely refused to, though I may be wrong. This was also during the time I was stuck in Medbay completely paralysed with Grave Fever and officers were directly disobeying orders to move away from Solitary and stop clamouring for the release of Rin.

 

And I did not say she was cuffed when you began to beat her with the baton in the prior post. She was down after the first hit, with 5 bullets in her, and not going anywhere. A logical person could probably conclude that she was subdued at that point, and seconds away from being in handcuffs.

 

You stated cuffs. The bullets did not put them on the ground, my baton did. You only started cuffing when I'd put Rin on the floor.

 

Furthermore, a head of staff that consistantly annoys their underlings for no reason other than being able to shouldn't be one. So, yes, calling your staff "Fuckboys" constantly is not fitting of a head of staff if it borders harassment, but that one open to interpratiation.

 

Tell that to Jer'Koff the catbeast who was miaowing for RIn to be released because she dindu nuffin, Johnson lurking outside RIn's cell when they'd had orders to shove off, and Price who was nonstop screeching for my arrest when I dealt with the situation.

 

And lastly, I think accusations of metagaming shouldn't be thrown around so easily. Majority of antag players are boring and predictable, while most of us try very hard to suspend our disbelief concerning their shitty behavior, so failing to do so completely shouldn't be grounds for metagaming charge, imo.

 

On that note, I OOCly knew Rin was a vampire from the moment I contracted grave fever. I kept this out of the character's IC reasoning, as they'd still kidnapped and sexually assaulted a crewmember, which was valid reason for their isolation. I was also perfectly willing to take Rin in nonlethally, and allow the antag to continue making fun for the round, right up until she emptied the pistol into the character's face, giving the character IC motivation for the removal of the threat. At this point, I still didn't, knowing that they could still add fun to the round, taking the character to the floor with the baton, enough to get her cuffed. When they tried to escape yet again, I ended it.

[Eliot Clef]

Tell that to Jer'Koff the catbeast who was miaowing for RIn to be released because she dindu nuffin, Johnson lurking outside RIn's cell when they'd had orders to shove off, and Price who was nonstop screeching for my arrest when I dealt with the situation.

 

 

Point of clarification: If I'm not vastly mis-remembering, that Officer actually specifically said they didn't have a problem with Rin being arrested, only with Rin being thrown into solitary from the word go.

[Guest]

To be clear. By corporate regs, escaping from perma is punishable by death and borgification. If you attempt to make this reg more reasonable, you'll probably downgrade it only to death. While you may or may not agree with this being an appropriate punishment, it still kinda nullifies the manslaughter charge since it comes from the same book.

 

It says death on the wiki, but executions are not allowed under Biesel Law here, so we cannot perform them (unless a certain political party wins the Biesel Elections )

[CampinKiller]

I believe it was you I was telling to stop, as you completely refused to, though I may be wrong. This was also during the time I was stuck in Medbay completely paralysed with Grave Fever and officers were directly disobeying orders to move away from Solitary and stop clamouring for the release of Rin.

 

That would be Johnson, as I was only on Sec comms at the time.

 

Tell that to Jer'Koff the catbeast who was miaowing for RIn to be released because she dindu nuffin, Johnson lurking outside RIn's cell when they'd had orders to shove off, and Price who was nonstop screeching for my arrest when I dealt with the situation.

 

 

Point of clarification: If I'm not vastly mis-remembering, that Officer actually specifically said they didn't have a problem with Rin being arrested, only with Rin being thrown into solitary from the word go.

 

Yes, I recall Sur'kov saying (and making an IA complaint to that matter) that they did not agree with the instant-solitary sentence. Johnson thought she was innocent from the get-go.

[Guest]

It says death on the wiki, but executions are not allowed under Biesel Law here, so we cannot perform them (unless a certain political party wins the Biesel Elections )

Doesn't exactly state when the death's suppose to be carried out. I think the underlying issue is that someone who breaks out can be labeled uncontainable and promptly executed after capture. Apply that logic if the culprit was a ling or a wizard. Even when cuffed and in containment, you would be well in your right to prevent any possible escape for the future.

[SierraKomodo]

It says death on the wiki, but executions are not allowed under Biesel Law here, so we cannot perform them (unless a certain political party wins the Biesel Elections )

Doesn't exactly state when the death's suppose to be carried out. I think the underlying issue is that someone who breaks out can be labeled uncontainable and promptly executed after capture. Apply that logic if the culprit was a ling or a wizard. Even when cuffed and in containment, you would be well in your right to prevent any possible escape for the future.

 

I think it's worth noting here that the corporate regulations haven't been adjusted to account for any of the new laws and such the lore team have come up with; Since Biesel considers capital punishment illegal, and executions are considered capital punishment, it wouldn't make since for corporate regs to label executions as a valid option. Borgification however is not considered capital punishment and is a lawful option. I'm not sure where other measures such as removal of limbs/eyes/what have you for specific antag things would fall in regards to capital punishment though.

Jackboot can probably weigh in more on this subject

[SierraKomodo]

As this thread seems to be going nowhere discussion wise, and mostly just going back and forth, I'll be temporarily locking this thread until an admin is able to look through the posts that are here and provide input on this complaint.