Staff Complaint - Serveris6

[Dumplinz]

BYOND Key: [/b] Dumplinz

Staff BYOND Key: serveris6

Reason for complaint: Got a Warning on a Vague Accusation, Regarding Brig Time on something very Specific, This Mod Handled the Situation Terrible, Was Obviously trying to be Vindictive (which you will be able to tell even in the Warning Posted further down). Claimed moderation but was Influenced on people sending the Ahelp as opposed to actual Facts.

Evidence/logs/etc: I will start by Posting the Ridiculous warning.

Spoken to concerning supporting/instating absurdly long brig sentences as a head of security for minor-moderate offenses. Encouraged to review corp regs further.

Absurdly Long Brig Sentences? Well lets take a look at the fact's. Officer Jun was being talked to by myself, The head of Security, In the HoS office. Jun was in the office Because she was reportedly going to Charge a Scientific Freezegun in the Security Area after being told not to. Jun decided to do this why? Because Jun believed Protocol Demanded she help the Science team in any way she could, regardless of orders. BEFORE this could happen, I was informed by another officer she was planning on doing this, So I called Jun into my office. I asked Jun if this allegation was true (I was attempting to avoid any demotion, brig time etc.. I just wanted a confession.) Jun Agreed, Yes, This was what she was going to do because of the aforementioned reason. Continually stating "protocol" "regs" etc. Again, this being in the Logic of "Research station = DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO ENSURE RESEARCH PROGRESSES NO MATTER WHAT" So The Issue i saw was, you have this officer who doesn't care about orders, They follow their own code, And will just say "regs" over and over with not substance, no: Code4476:Help Research. Nothing. Just "regs" as a defense. But maybe she was RPing? it matters not, she still disobeyed a Lawful Order.

So as of Now we have Failure to Execute an Order 5-15 minutes, ya? (note, she was not told she was being demoted or charged with anything as of yet)

So as we are talking about this "regs" argument to be able to justify Filling the Freeze gun, she decided to go on Public radio and says

"Guys i'm being Terminated!" "The HoS is power crazy!"

At this point we are in the HoS office with the blinds down, Clearly a private conversation. Reasoning being I didn't want this to go beyond the brig ( as far as disagreements go) So at this point I say Stop, Attempt to remove the ear piece when it is clear Jun is not going to stop. Jun decided at this point to Table me, Then cuff me, and take my Radio. Jun Attempted to (in my opinion) Declare mutiny, interpreted by me because she was trying to have me arrested for being against protocol (that word again) My Security team was not in support of arresting me. So Jun then said "Fine, I'm not going against the entire Security team" And surrendered. (which again, Had she been able to get support, I would have been Arrested and it would have been Mutiny, But again, we have a Mod who couldn't comprehend this.)

So now the Situation is no longer in My Personnel Control, I can clearly not let her go after assaulting myself. The Problem the Moderator had was This: supporting/instating absurdly long brig sentences as a head of security for minor-moderate offenses. So I will note, I had Jun sent to Solitary so I could Talk to her personally for one last chance to get this resolved (but I was unable to talk to her because I had to Debate with this Moderator). Ignoring that however, She stayed in for Roughly 40 minutes, (being Generous here). this time the Moderator had a problem with, but why? well.

supporting/instating absurdly long brig sentences as a head of security for minor-moderate offenses.

This Statement is just sad. http://aurorastation.org/wiki/index.php?title=Corporate_Regulations There's the link. Go. Look under Assault a Head of Staff. 20-40 Minutes with possible Termination. (I didn't Terminate her, I had only sent her to Solitary at this point, No charges are in place yet). We already know our Moderator friend doesn't know the Regs, Big surprise. Now I'm going to Go against All Logic and Ignore the Mutiny Charge, Because that is what the Moderator was Hung up on, So I said Fine, Ignore it. 40 Minutes + the 15 minute Maximum for Disobeying an order? 55 Minutes. Which I didn't even Want to brig the person with, But I had to talk to the Moderator, So i handed the situation off to the HoP and Chief at the time whom were at the brig. So besides being Factually within my rights to be able to Sentence the person in Question, What's the Problem? Besides Terrible Moderating, People had problem with some of the choices I made (all choices being well within the rules, regardless if disagreed with.)

No One Deny's She Attacked me

No One Deny's She Disobyed an Order

No One Deny's I couldn't as an HoS, Deny a Request to Rearm a Weapon, No matter if made Lawfully in a Lab.

You can say "hey man, let the science rearm their weapon" "be nice, be accommodating" You guys are the Problem with RP servers, You don't HAVE to be that, because you're not suppose to be Mary Sues, Your suppose to react and interpret what your Character would do. I interpreted the Science team being Assholes to myself, I responded in kind, No rules were broken on either side. you can ICly encourge ___ don't come at OOC with that... its pathetic.

Encouraged to review corp regs further.

This Is why You Appear not ready to be a Moderator. If you're going to claim that, At least be Right... It aint hard, There's books IN the game that go to wiki.

You've All Been here as Moderators or as Security, Or as any Staff with a rank, When you are put in a Position of power, People will complain against you, It's going to happen. as a Moderator, This Moderator Should know this, And somehow escaped his mind when receiving Complaints. I'm not saying Don't Look into it. But you're looking for the Breaking of Rules, Not feelings getting hurt.

Finally I leave you with the Mutiny Charge I decided to Ignore, But don't believe me, Let's look at the Wiki (moderator, this means specifically you)

Mutiny: To openly rebel against or attempt to remove command staff with violent intent. (tabled, and then cuffed)

Loyalty implant. Holding until judgement. Holding until transfer or cyborgification at prisoner discretion.

Learn the Rules Moderator.

Additional remarks: And to the misguided people who Reported the Previous arrest of a Officer because he was SSD, Stop, You're Wrong.

He was Rping "walking" SSD. He tried to get in the detectives office, he was walking back and forth, Jun (the Detective) Complained about this, The Officer Didn't stop, After being Ordered By the Myself and the Warden. EVEN pretending this was a RP based action (even if it was somehow a bug, and the character patrolled while he was actually SSD) When I went to Release the Man he attacked me Based on the Misunderstanding thatI reset his time. This goes to show you, People just want someone to yell at, I'm positive the Warden did not mean to reset his time from 2 seconds to 10, But there was not explanation GOTTA RP, so he attacked me. I just wish people looked into their situation before acting.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Guest

[TishinaStalker]

Ain't the one handling this complaint, but I heavily advise you to take another look at your tone in this because you can easily be interpreted as taking an aggressive and insulting tone. Which really won't help your case in the slightest, and I, personally, won't permit you to insult staff or other players with remarks like "Learn the rules moderator", "We already know our Moderator friend doesn't know the Regs, Big surprise.", and "You guys are the problem with RP servers". If you're angry, then I highly suggest taking a step back, recollecting your thoughts, and then coming back.

[Eliot Clef]

Right. Okay. So, you're new to being a Head. You juuuust got approved a little while ago, and a lot of folks thought you were pretty reasonable beforehand! I was one of them. Now though, I think you're out of line.

So, I was watching this round when things happened, and then a bystander as the FT when it continued.

Before I joined, you had the Detective arrest somebody and were told this isn't appropriate for the Detective to do. It wasn't. You kinda complained that Detectives are officers IRL in OOC, but this explicitly isn't true here.

First, you ordered an officer detained/demoted for an incredibly minor offense: Pacing in front of the Detective's door and annoying her. Yeah, you told him to stop. It was still pretty minor. He didn't really resist, and he was treated really roughly. When he thought that you guys were giving him a double sentence for no reason, he flipped out on you with pepper spray and, okay, you threw the book at him. Fine. But you were talking about a demotion from the word go.

Second, you were aggressive with RD over a freeze ray. A freeze ray is barely a weapon. It's an anti-slime device that, as far as I'm aware, doesn't have much useful effect against actual people. You appeared under the impression that RD can't develop weapons without a Research Director around, and got very snippy with them over public channels. This displays a hell of a lot of ignorance about what is actually a weapon on the station, and how much authority you actually have to interfere with other departments doing their jobs.

Thirdly, you went out of your way to be petty and spiteful specifically order R&D not be assisted in recharging their freeze ray via security. (They don't have any charging stations.) Bear in mind: A freeze ray is only really useful for killing slimes. There's literally no reasonable motivation for doing this at all, and since the entire purpose of the station is R&D, and the purpose of the freeze ray is to increase the safety of people performing R&D in a dangerous job (Xenobiology), I'd actually argue that this action is in violation of your loyalty implant. There's no cost for helping them with their freeze ray, and not helping them with their freeze ray has no benefit.

Fourthly, the incident with Jun Ivanova. Jun Ivanova isn't the best member of security. She wasn't being the best member of security then. She shouldn't have conducted an arrest with Officers around to do that for her, and you shouldn't have defended her doing so. You took her into an office for a private chat we didn't see, and according to her testimony when she started talking on the radio you moved to take the radio from her. At this point, she shoved you down and cuffed you.

Was she in the right? Not exactly. But, I think it bears mentioning that a part of Security was already pondering arresting you for Exceeding Official Powers, and was making active complaints about your lack of knowledge to the other command staff and IAA. And then again, when your response to Jun was played out. Rightly, Jun was arrested. She didn't resist arrest, according to what I was told, but I wasn't there. Rightly, she should have been arrested, and charged with illegal detainment, minor assault or battery, maybe neglect of duty if you really wanted to push it. Instead she was charged with Kidnapping or Hostage Taking, and thrown in solitary. (With you leaving out Mutiny.)

In all honesty, I think serveris6 was in the right, and a whole lot of people were unimpressed with you that round for pretty reasonable cause. I don't think this is because you were deliberately bad, but I got the impression there were a lot of things you just didn't know here. Problem is, you seemed to double down whenever something like that occurred. Not just ICly, but in OOC chat to a minor extent as well.

[Dumplinz]

My Tone is the Result of an Unjust Argument Based on no Evidence, No Reference, No facts. Am I being an Asshole in my tone? By all means, Sure, Jerkish, Whatever. I'm not denying that, But I have a Right to React this way, Because I wasn't Given a Trial, A fair Account, Just an Anonymous Accusation with no Rules Broken. I'm not calling this Guy An Idiot, or any other Derogatory Name. I do not believe he IS one. What I believe is he Did not factually read the Rules that I have Proven, By a simple link. And to Speciify, the "You guys are the problem with RP servers". That was in Reference to the issue with the Science Department, WITHIN their rights to argue Icly of my choice, Not outside of it.

I'm Asking for a Fair Assessment, People are tired of Moderator or Admin seemingly walking over them without just cause. I don't think any of you want that, but that's how it comes off to myself, I'm Convinced the Moderator in Question was Unquestionably Biased, As proven with him Not reading the Link I provided on the Crimes I provided.

[Dumplinz]

I Didn't have the Detective Arrest anyone. See, This is my problem. Random crap being added on to be blamed on me. I Get it's a communication Error, But no one even asked If I allowed it, They just assumed it was my call to pile more random complaints on me on No basis.

as for the OOC comment, I was Not Denying you were at all wrong in the IC version of the game, Just I was saying (from Jun who was the Detective) I saw their point of view (or mistake in this case) as it being percieved as an Officer.

Not to be confused with Challenging the rule, Not my intention, But people were at that point looking for ammo, so they shoveled this in? I even went out of my way to say it in OOC, but unsuprisingly people Grabbed that and shoved it into my IC argument, Of which I didn't fight.

He Wasn't Demoted for Being SSD, He wasn't Demoted for any sort of verbal argument. I Attempted to FREE the guy, and he attacked me, That's grounds for Demotion, It's in the Rulebook, What is the miscommunication here?

I'd Argue Back An Easy way to Interpret the Loyalty chip can be viewed as not wanting to support Research's Action with a Weapon. There? done. I can totally see the disagreement, But it's within the HoS call to Deny service to his Brig.

I absolutely was Aggressive with the Science department, NOT randomly, but in reaction to how I perceived myself to be treated (asking who allowed the gun to be built and being told no file or request had to be made, Which I conceded) This Aggressiveness I didn't even care about, I was just Rping Back and Aggressive stance to the Science Department, No rules Broken.

There Crux of what you Seem to be saying is Assaulting a Head of Staff isn't that big of a deal Regardless of the rules, And you are entitled to that opinion and maybe the majority of people agree with you, But why can't someone Disagree? Why can't I View an assault on a head of staff as something serious? Like Real life, you attack someone you are liable to get killed, I didn't touch Jun, I didn't attempt to Fight Jun even when she grabbed and tried to table me, Because My Intent was not to Fight. Reason Seems to be losing today to a Vocal Majority, Mutual agreement between people, but no substance in their argument.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Guest

[TishinaStalker]

My Tone is the Result of an Unjust Argument Based on no Evidence, No Reference, No facts. Am I being an Asshole in my tone? By all means, Sure, Jerkish, Whatever. I'm not denying that, But I have a Right to React this way, Because I wasn't Given a Trial, A fair Account, Just an Anonymous Accusation with no Rules Broken. I'm not calling this Guy An Idiot, or any other Derogatory Name. I do not believe he IS one. What I believe is he Did not factually read the Rules that I have Proven, By a simple link. And to Speciify, the "You guys are the problem with RP servers". That was in Reference to the issue with the Science Department, WITHIN their rights to argue Icly of my choice, Not outside of it.

I'm Asking for a Fair Assessment, People are tired of Moderator or Admin seemingly walking over them without just cause. I don't think any of you want that, but that's how it comes off to myself, I'm Convinced the Moderator in Question was Unquestionably Biased, As proven with him Not reading the Link I provided on the Crimes I provided.

 

You really don't have a right to act like a jerk to people; especially when you're fully capable of self moderation. If you honestly don't think that saying "We already know our Moderator friend doesn't know the Regs, Big surprise" to somebody that knows the rules isn't basically insulting them, then you should double check later when you're not angry. There's way nicer ways to word things and if you can't, then simply drop the sentence. You're not obligated to act like a jerk and instead did it of your own accord. Lastly, you really haven't proven anything until you shown evidence of it. Which I will need to get myself from logs tomorrow since you did not provide any.

Anyway, that's about all I can say on this for now until staff gathers more information and/or Serveris responds here tomorrow.

[Dumplinz]

I tried to Copy Some of the Chat, But alas it was to far to scroll up regarding the Situation and important Textlog.

Who is deciding whether or not You get to act like a jerk? You? You aren't wrong in the sense that Self Moderation is good, I can Definitely Say this in a Nicer way, Absolutely.

I did choose to be a jerk, but I did so reactionary. in the Warning he Claimed I should read the corp regs further, I am by no means a Steel cage of information concerning this, But this was clearly meant to be insulting, if not just by itself, by the Conversation Leading up to the warning.

I believe all my choices were done within Reason. That's it, End of story, that's my argument. I cannot Argue i couldn't be wrong, because I could be. Today My choices weren't stacked against Reason however, Just Hearsay, Myself not seeing what i was accused of, the only specific being to take away the Mutiny charge (which again, is within reason if you just glance at the Corporate regulation page!) I think the Argument you COULD have is "hey man, we see your point, But it's not FUN if you charge him with Mutiny just because he/she attacked you and tried to arrest you" Which cool, Understand, But it seems to me the Staff is acting like this is some Insane stretch of imagination, and Mental somersaults are being done to come to this crime. No, This is just what I saw in the book, if the Admins want to Clarify "Only Sentence the Minimum sentence because is rule" Fine, I can easily point to that and agree, But that's not what happened here.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Guest

[Eliot Clef]

I Didn't have the Detective Arrest anyone. See, This is my problem. Random crap being added on to be blamed on me. I Get it's a communication Error, But no one even asked If I allowed it, They just assumed it was my call to pile more random complaints on me on No basis.

 

I brought it up only because you defended it, to some extent, in OOC. And also because you stated, ICly, that they're still an Officer if I'm not mistaken.

 

He Wasn't Demoted for Being SSD, He wasn't Demoted for any sort of verbal argument. I Attempted to FREE the guy, and he attacked me, That's grounds for Demotion, It's in the Rulebook, What is the miscommunication here?

 

Yes. You were within your rights to throw the book at him at that point. But it shouldn't have reached that point to begin with.

 

I'd Argue Back An Easy way to Interpret the Loyalty chip can be viewed as not wanting to support Research's Action with a Weapon. There? done. I can totally see the disagreement, But it's within the HoS call to Deny service to his Brig.

I absolutely was Aggressive with the Science department, NOT randomly, but in reaction to how I perceived myself to be treated (asking who allowed the gun to be built and being told no file or request had to be made, Which I conceded) This Aggressiveness I didn't even care about, I was just Rping Back and Aggressive stance to the Science Department, No rules Broken.

 

Shrug. You are, technically, right. But only in the most Futurama-bureaucrat definition of technically right.

The Freeze Ray isn't a weapon in any sense that matters. If you charged somebody for contraband for having one, most people would call you ridiculous and incompetent. Likewise, going out of your way to deny them a recharge for an anti-slime weapon which has no practical applications against anything but station research hazards (slimes), makes you come off as ridiculous and incompetent, especially with a loyalty implant. This whole sequence demonstrated a fundamental lack of understanding in what a part of the station (Research) is allowed to do without paperwork/permission, what constitutes an actual weapon, and where the lines are in general.

[Dumplinz]

If I Argued the Detective was an Officer, let's Pretend I was 100% on the side of Detective can do whatever the hell they wanted (which, no, I don't believe that obviously) I would just be Wrong. That's it, No rules broken, Obviously A Clarification would have to happen, But no rules broken seeing as how I never Ordered the Detective to do any such thing, much less arrest someone.

I can't see your Point to the SSD walking guy. I literally Accepted his "RP" Excuse, Attempted to free him and got attacked, What do. I get the Warden accidentally caused this, Big misunderstanding, Yadda yadda, He Reset the Timer as I was about to open the door, No conversation was able to be had however. No, I didn't release him right when he was brigged, I had other stuff to deal with, Asking jun what the hell was going on, But there was no plans to Demote him for that, That was just Dealing and Reacting to his RP.

I'm glad you see the point, or at least I hope you do, that i'm making with the freeze gun, Firstly it's a item in the game that you can make Every round. If Denied Access to it that round, Oh well, Next time. Game isn't destroyed, Their Actions in acting shitty to me (even if i'm wrong in how I interpreted their language, which if you look at the logs, it's pretty obvious how aggressive they were being) caused me to react to them. I don't see this as being this insane issue, I can Obviously see the fun and the research involved in it Icly, But the Character i was Portraying was going to react to their comments in this way as being Vindictive. If this were not a RP server, Whatever, I don't care, Everyones there to do what they want, but we were suppose to be acting these people out, or at least's that is the impression i had, Not NO fun, but not Unlimited Sandbox fun either.

[Eliot Clef]

I'm glad you see the point, or at least I hope you do, that i'm making with the freeze gun, Firstly it's a item in the game that you can make Every round. If Denied Access to it that round, Oh well, Next time. Game isn't destroyed, Their Actions in acting shitty to me (even if i'm wrong in how I interpreted their language, which if you look at the logs, it's pretty obvious how aggressive they were being) caused me to react to them. I don't see this as being this insane issue, I can Obviously see the fun and the research involved in it Icly, But the Character i was Portraying was going to react to their comments in this way as being Vindictive. If this were not a RP server, Whatever, I don't care, Everyones there to do what they want, but we were suppose to be acting these people out, or at least's that is the impression i had, Not NO fun, but not Unlimited Sandbox fun either.

 

Thing is, I don't think they were shitty to you. I think they reacted with appropriate apprehension to you over-stepping your boundaries and making demands you had no right to make of them. And OK, sure, you were playing a vindictive HoS.

This is going to get you complained into the ground and make people seriously consider arresting you for Exceeding Official Authority, which is what you've pretty much already experienced. Those of us who were discussing it among ourselves and pursuing proper channels ended up just leaving / going to cryo. HoS is not the role to play an obstructionist dickbag in. Security is already a big enough problem to play, and a big enough boogeyman to the crew. Maybe you can balance it out, I don't know, but I doubt it.

[Dumplinz]

I rather hear your Opinion After you get the logs, Because It doesn't seem to me like you were reading what they were saying based on your response. What I would Rather you do is rather than focusing on what you think you know, focus on the Opposing Argument, Namely Assuming that Science was in the extreme negative of being really shitty to the HoS. Would your opinion be different? If a department Repeatedly acted disrespectful toward you, A head of Anything, and there was no way to change that behavior because that department didn't have a head, how would you respond? I didn't Respond in a Verbal Manner, Though I believe I called the Lab Assistant a Special One, Which Realistically, It's basically an Intern Who disrespecting the HoS, But I didn't even initiate a Aggressive action Before that to that person.

BUT EVEN THEN, even if your boss, or some department head is a jerk ( I was Attempting to do what I'm asking you to do, And go Full on the other side to see their view, Thus pushing the Vindictive element) where is the problem as it is concerned to the Rules.

Interpretation of Loyalty Card? we already Agreed that's definetly Ambiguous

Brig Time? Beyond not Intentionally wanting Jun to stay in that long, There was a Reasonable, Arguable way to make it that way.

Demands I had no right to make: I have still yet to see an Explanation to this, I didn't Take away anyone's research toy. This MUST be an either outright lie or communication error (not by you, but by whomever accused it in the first place)

Who Decides the Brig Time and Charges if not the Head of Security? no overstepping seen there (unless I'm wrong, But there wasn't a captain to be deciding this either)

The Charges? This is also Confusing, Besides me Not charging Jun with anything, There was verifiable Reason to Go with Mutiny, Hostage, Assault, Disobeying Order, Misuse of Communications, etc. I DID tell security to take them to Solitary for Question, But that was Namely to question them AGAIN in private.

[Gollee]

Heyo, Chief Duty Officer here, the regulations person.

Aurora is a research station, not a security station. The Head of Security has no right of any kind to interfere with internal research shenanigans unless it could compromise the safety of personnel, or the security of the station. The ingame research paperwork does not need a HoS signature to be valid, for example. If research want to do weapons testing, they can, provided it is in a controlled envoronment, with safety measures, like targets or protohumans in place; and security is out of line if they interfere with that.

In regards to charging equipment, that does require the HoS' consent, but it is almost negligent not to do so; given that Research will just print new guns to replace the decharged ones, leading to an overabundance of weaponry that could be stolen.

Detectives cannot arrest, doing so is Exceeding Official Powers for them, and Neglect of Duty for the orderer.

SSD is not a crime, ingame, it is seen as an unfortunate consequence of space travel. SSDs should have important equipment stored, and themselves put in the dorms for up to 30 minutes, after which they are put into cryosleep. They may return without consequences and reclaim their duties within that time.

Freezeguns are not classified as weapons, and are instead classified as tools, there is no basis to refuse charging outside of mass chaos. Freezeguns are there to save lives, and it's generally a good idea for security to request a few incase they need to put down slimes.

Also; for the love of god, the only things that get capitalised are names, and words at the start of sentences; not arbitary verbs and adjectives. (You are not alone, I know so many people that do it, and it annoys the crap out of me.)

EDIT: brig times are also laid out on the Corporate Regulations page of the wiki.

[Dumplinz]

I Wasn't asking for authorization, I never pushed the subject of their experiments, was it claimed I demanded paperwork? I stated my opinion icly that a science team (and mainly lab assistant) didn't have anyone supervising them, but I didn't personally stop them, or order it stopped.

I never ordered the arrest or knew it was even going on, I only saw the debate in IC, So I said in ooc detectives are cops irl, so I see juns point of view, again nothing being broken on my part

Stop calling it SSD please, the examination showed no closed eyes, he was walking back and forth and toggled the detective door. He was RPing ssd walking (unless this was somehow a bug, buy unlikely as he responded immediately when arrested. Too add, I didn't even touch the guy, Jun tabled him a couple times. And I tried setting him free after he kept saying SSD SSD! so I tried freeing him, the warden accidently reset the door, so he attacked me.

The freeze gun wasn't a threat itself, but easily reasonable to see a science team unsupervised with is dangerous (a lab assistant leading it, no less, buy everyone ignored that).

So back to what's important, how was a rule broken? Everything has a reasonable thought process, regardless if you disagree about it being "nice" or in reg, we are RPing, our actions are intentionally not by the book.

[Eliot Clef]

Detectives cannot arrest, doing so is Exceeding Official Powers for them, and Neglect of Duty for the orderer.

 

In Dumplinz's defense, he in fact did not order the Detective to do this. I bring it up primarily because he defended the arrest when Phoebe Essel pointed out a Detective was conducting one, and also brought it into OOC a little a bit.

[Mofo1995]

Why do you keep saying a lab assistant was leading R&D? Iyuoro, scientist, was leading R&D. He's the one that hit the print button on both my freeze rays.

The whole exchange with science did start with you threatening massive repercussions for doing weapons research without your express permission. You said it yourself: "I didn't give you permission to do that!" And you handled the science team very aggressively saying that it was in the regulations that we needed head supervision and claiming there was a form for it in the database. We were all terrified you were going to send security in to beat us up given the severity of your response, and we traveled in one big group at first for safety in numbers. Phoebe may have been catty with you but we were not aggressive to you, I don't think your treatment of us on comms was warranted by us desperately trying to defend ourselves from being brigged over a freeze Ray.

BUT aside from your failure to know the regs, which happens sometimes, its all right, I think the freeze Ray debacle was primarily an IC issue rather than OOC, with the exception of the debateable loyalty implant angle.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I joined the station as Houssam Jawdat HoP in the midst of this mess. I wasn't immediately aware that there was an issue despite having read incident reports moments before joining because I assumed this issue had been in a previous round because of the rule against submitting incident reports on a round in progress.

The AI hologram'd into my office and told me there was an argument between Command in the brig. I OOC'ly went "oh no this is about those IR's isn't it" and Houssam IC'ly meowed internally.

Houssam went into the brig and proceeded to try to take control of the situation to sort out who, what, when, and generally figure out what was going on. He first spoke to the Chief Medical Officer who's name I forget in a private conversation in the briefing room. The player LOOC'd the problem at me, to which I kept saying "IC it fam", so he presented the issue as a power mad HoS. Houssam then spoke to Jun, who he took out of solitary to speak to in the briefing room. She also had damning statements about the head of security Darius. After getting her testimony he moved her to a regular cell and asked the warden to keep her in communal.

Eventually Houssam tried to speak to two different officers privately about potentially replacing the HoS if he was removed, and after that called a Head of Staff meeting. The Chief Engineer, Houssam Jawdat, and HoS Darius attended. Zubari (played by filthyfrank) was present as a security officer just because Houssam wanted a garuntee of safety if the HoS, who at this point was painted as a tyrant, went "I AM THE LAW" and tried to detain all the Heads.

Darius' IC explanations of the actions he took changed the entire dynamic of this situation. Since he was loyalty implanted his statements obviously had to be taken as truth, even though they contradicted almost everything the CMO and Jun was saying.

IC'ly Houssam in the end abstained on his own vote to remove Darius, and the CE did as well I believe. The meeting adjourned with them waiting for a new transfer because they stayed behind, and Houssam promised Jun unlimited free ice cream whenever he's HoP or chef as compensation for the troubles within the brig and the timing of her charges.

As a neutral party, both sides of the specific issue were at fault. RnD is not security's department, but on the same token security is not RnD's department. The HoS is well within his rights to deny RnD usage of weapon's rechargers in his own department, because, again, it's his department. Is it a shitty thing to do? Probably! But that's why Duty Officers exist. That's why IA exist. (Granted the IA was 21 years old and inexperienced, but I mean in general)

Jun should not have disregarded HoS' orders. She also made the wrong call in arresting him, in my opinion. I don't think any moderation punishments or warnings were warranted for OP's behavior or actions. Serveris also contacted me via ahelp about this situation, and I was originally concerned that moderation was worried that I was metagaming since I was immediately dragged into the incident upon spawning in.

I nor my character were present to witness the actual interaction between the HoS and RnD, but his opinion that weapon's research shouldn't be conducted without an RD present seems entirely reasonable. His tone probably shouldn't be given moderation notice unless he was like "You fucking nerd shits kill yourselves with those guns" or something.

[Dumplinz]

When i say "leading" I mean the Lab assistant was the only one I was conversing with, and the Scientist you named was not really interactive with me. the "I didn't give you permission to do that!" is hilarious, I never stated that, That was either an outright lie if you were told that, or you took hearsay as fact. I took the Catty Attitude as Disrespect and dealt with it in IC, Which noting, NO repercussions happened via paperwork or whatnot, just the denial of the Recharge, That's it. I don't Fault you being "afraid" I mean you are suppose to RP that, Voice complaints and what not, but in Game. This being an OOC issue is so far-fetched without any supporting evidence is pathetic. As much as a Jerk as I may sound in this Complaint here, it is in no way representative of how I acted in the game, Which I kept in professional. The Moderator however had enough people complaining that he must have assumed he had to take a Direct Action.

The Confusion is from either Lies, or errors in Communications, Which you should be able to Support before you make a Warning

If I said "Science department, I am the Law, Everything you do comes through me!" Then I'm in the wrong, But that statement is extremely ridiculous, And no reasonable person would make it. So don't claim I did without proof.

If I Did something incorrect about the Brigs times, Prove it. Cite a Source. Because I'm citing the Book that leads to the wiki, and i even posted the link on the First post. (Which It Wasn't even suppose to get this far!, but Jun Attacked me when admitting she was going to go against an order, Which forces me to deal with the Situation publicly.) Easily I can interpret what Jun did as Mutiny, Assault A head of Staff, Disobeying an Order, Misuse of Coms, But it didn't even get to that level, Because I had to deal with a Moderator (The Mod clarifying isn't wrong, His Judgement is completely off the mark, however.)

And Saying I handled to Situation Aggressively? Fine, This is such a Moot point in reference to the Complaint, This isn't about "You Rp'd ___" It's How Did I break a Rule warnting a Warning

[SierraKomodo]

I think we need an admin to take a log through the server look for this round to see what exactly was said and any attack logs that occured that'll tell us for sure what happened. Until then, I don't see this thread going much further than the back-and-forth exchange that's currently happening with people basically repeating the same things.

[Mofo1995]

You did say it though... You absolutely freaked us all out by saying it. But it's not relevant to the complaint at hand.

And I'm not denying you the right to deny us a recharge in anyway, and don't think it warrants any IC or OOC action at all.

And after discussing on public comms, you didn't take any action against us, I didn't claim you did in any way shape or form, merely fear that you would which is no basis to an OOC complaint.

And again, on my end of things, It was purely an IC issue rather than OOC. I can't vouch for other parts.

So, I'm going to stop posting since only logs can settle a back and forth, and I've said everything I could say.

[Dumplinz]

I will say, On my Part, I believe I attempted to Flash in the first Incident (which failed due to eyewear) And that was the only time I ever actually Physically interacted with someone. In which Case I believe Jun Dragged Hive into the Detectives Office and may have tabled him more then a couple times, I did order the arrest though. He started speaking as he was being dragged to the cell.

With Jun I attempted to Remove Jun's Ear Radio, as she was informed this was Private, And no Decision had been made for her disobeying an order, I Intentionally didn't try to fight in any of these Scenarios because Darius red is 54, a bit too old to be doing such things.

[Dumplinz]

I think you are Confused from When I stated "you're lucky you don't have officers in there if it Became a Security Issue" Implying That I was not of the mind it warranted sending anyone to stop, regardless of the lack of a head, Which easily can still be ordered by the Scientist and supervised, Sure. But it can easily be Reasoned if the Scientist Supervising the Weapon Testing could be inept and not responsible enough for this. Was he/she? I don't know, But i didn't press the issue, because it wasn't my department. I'm Assuming you are referring to this phrase, because it is the only one with a stretch of it's intent you can come to your Conclusion.

But like I said and you Agree, This isn't an OOC Issue, there isn't a Rule clearly understood and broken without care, It was just an interaction.

[Garnascus]

When I get off work in 7 hours or so ill see about checking logs, we also need serv's opinion here. My initial thought is RP happened so perhaps its all an IC issue.

[Serveris]

Allow me to first state that I am very glad that you decided to take this issue to the forums. We had a very lengthy discussion via PMs, however at a certain point, I had to retire, as I had things to do in the morning. I simply couldn't spend another half hour arguing the same points with you repeatedly; but hopefully we can get this resolved and establish a sense of understanding now. Now we address this issue with the warning from which I issued.

dumplinz Serveris6 2016-01-12 21:26:42 Warning added by serveris6, for: Spoken to concerning supporting/instating absurdly long brig sentences as a head of security for minor-moderate offenses. Encouraged to review corp regs further.

Now, when this was first brought to my attention, the player of the brigged character, Jun Ivanova, sent an adminhelp declaring that they were being permabrigged, and they weren't aware of why. I promised them that I would speak with security, and try to find a reason for her. After asking around, obviously, having spoken with Dumplinz early on, it became aware to me that he had levied charges of Assault, Failure to execute orders, and mutiny against her. Now, seeing as how mutiny came into play in the middle of an extended round, I obviously felt there was an issue at fault for one of the two players. And so I began inquiring into Dumplinz a bit more into his reasoning behind the Mutiny charge, in addition to speaking with the other command staff, namely the Chief Medical Officer, and the head of personnel, and the Artificial Intelligence that round for good measure. All of them provided a very similar testimony that contrasted sharply with your decision on the incident. Throughout this 20-60 minute interview process with Dumplinz and a number of other players, several members of security began to adminhelp similar complaints, and requested that action be taken against the head of security.

As I observed while collecting this information, I even at one point noted that (shortly after the Chief Medical Officer had went to cryo), the IAA and command staff delegating among themselves concerning having you demoted from the position of head of security due to gross negligence.

Now, concerning the incident itself. By my understanding, one of your staff, Jun Ivanova, attempted to push an arrest towards you during a discussion in your office. You chose to see the arrest as invalid (and it could have been interpreted as much; there's no issue there). Use of force was demonstrated, and ultimately Ivanova ended up detained herself. You charged her with failure to execute an order, assault, and mutiny. The charge of failure to execute an order was valid, as you clearly demonstrated a command to your subordinate, and they refused to comply. Assault, slightly more debatable, as an officer attempting an arrest would be better charged under this, given the intent (which is arguably the most important factor when determining the charge). At the time, I saw assault as being valid enough, given the incident that took place, and decided not to get hung up on a point that I could not defend and did not really see an issue at the time.

The mutiny charge, however, as we see here, is not really applicable, given the incident that took place. Ivanova had no intention to remove you forced from command, killed, maimed, or otherwise injured. She simply wished for you to comply with an arrest. It was this gross misinterpretation that I spent thirty minutes attempting to outline for you, even suggesting the application of this, or perhaps this charge in place, as they more accurately describe the situation that took place as I saw it, after speaking with the AI, HoP, and several members of security staff (with most of them being in agreement).

Regardless of my taking the (rather extreme) amount of time to explain this with you, and explain every minor detail that you contested (with a somewhat rude demeanor, I might add), you continued to accuse me of acting on a one-sided belief (which is based on what, remind me? Me disagreeing with you? This makes me biased or closed off?), when nothing could be further from the truth. As I've said here, and as I said on the server, I sought out to collect as many details from as many people that were involved in the incident, including your own, and based my decision off of that, as well as from deliberations made with the other moderators and administrators online.

That being said, I retain my decision, and still feel that the warning was justified in being issued.

EDIT: This particular incident report is a primary example of why I pressed for you to review regulations. While I didn't note this in my main response, I have taken note of you behaving in this manner since you were given a command whitelist. Given this particular incident, however, I thought it would've been best to discuss it with you.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

My character is the one that called the meeting to deliberate on if the HoS should be removed. I will repeat that we decided the HoS did not need to be demoted after taking his testimony in the meeting.

I will agree that mutiny was the incorrect charge. Sedition would be, at the very maximum, as far as one could really go with what Jun did.

[Eliot Clef]

When I get off work in 7 hours or so ill see about checking logs, we also need serv's opinion here. My initial thought is RP happened so perhaps its all an IC issue.

 

So, I do want to comment on this. While it's reasonable in theory to paint it strictly as an IC issue, Dumplinz's behavior as Head of Security strongly suggests that he doesn't (or didn't) really know how Heads of Staff function very well or how inter-departmental authority among Heads works. He had to be told that he didn't have any say over RD producing weapons, and acted vindictively towards them when they were highly defensive about and adverse towards his ignorance / perceived attempt to assert his authority.

While he did skirt the line of actually Exceeding Official Powers in his behavior, the tension within Security itself was so thick that if he'd pushed just a little bit more than he did he definitely would have been arrested by his own department. (Not talking about Jun, who jumped the gun independent of the others who were concerned.)

Heads of Staff are whitelisted because we expect players to know what they're doing in those roles and not to engage in questionable behavior while exerting their authority over the station. Skirting just inside the line of acceptability, and displaying brazen ignorance of reasonable / appropriate conduct, doesn't strike me as an IC issue in this instance. The deliberate vindictiveness maybe, but not the ignorance. I think this is especially true given Dumplinz's attitude towards people taking issue with his behavior.

I don't think Dumplinz necessarily needs to be in actual trouble here, because I sincerely believe in his ability to conduct himself reasonably (I've seen him do it plenty, it's why I voted +1 on his whitelist), and the mistakes he made during this round were largely mistakes of ignorance. But the line between a player not knowing conventions, and a character not knowing conventions, is a blurry one and I think this leans more towards the player not knowing his stuff than the character.