Humanity & Religion: Do We Standardize The Unwhitelisted?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

As it stands, every major species' has 1 - 2 main faiths that form the backbone and foundation of the 'vanilla' characters for that species, reinforcing or contrasting their entire narrative.

The Skrell have Qeblak and Weishii, which focus on having a deep, inner faith in a Skrell's place in the galaxy and a spiritual faith in science respectively. This reinforces their narrative of being an extremely thoughtful, pragmatic species that finds worth in knowledge.

The Unathi have Th'akh and Sk'akh, both of which place great importance on Unathi ancestors and keeping in their good faith, because these spirits watch over everything and still interact with the physical world. This reinforces their culture of respecting the elders and the old ways - your dead aunt is still glaring at you judgingly when you look at catbeast erotica, but this time as a ghost that can give you 10,000 years of bad luck. Spooky!!!!

The Tajaran worship their suns, S'rendarr and Messa, who are archetypal gods of good and evil.

The Vaurca worship their Queens, and because of their terrible radiation blasted planet view the sky as a place of suffering or general melancholy.

Humanity has... Nothing really explained. Be a christian, be a pagan, worship your own ass, who cares! As far as we have worked it out, the make-up of humanity in 2458 is a copy-paste of 2016. This isn't because of a single reason, but quite a lot of reasons. Dictating what religions survived and what didn't, which ones are 'good' and 'bad' always made me uncomfortable because it can exclude actual people following these faiths since our players often breathe themselves into their characters, but I've been getting over this. People still enjoy the Imperium of Man, after all. I also didn't want us to be so presumptuous in dictating what religions would survive or become dominant.

There is also the big-stronger reasoning that humanity isn't a whitelisted race so in my policy isn't given as much "you need to know this" information as our whitelisted species, I cop to that. This lets people enjoy playing the server without needing to research our setting - every level of investment in the lore is acceptable if you play a good character and reasonably seem in place with things.

Recently I've been thinking about changing this policy, but the direction I'd take it in, if I do take it in any new direction, is still something I'm debating.

So what I'm asking is,

Do we want to create and define organized religions for 'vanilla' humans to follow and reasonably expect/request that characters follow it to various levels of conviction?

And if you think yes to this...

Should any religions be copy/paste religions we see today or do we want to go the middle road and create fictional faiths for "vanilla" humans to follow and explain their proliferation as just yet another evolution of philosophy and religion?

[Dreviore]

Religions a tough thing.

I believe we should have a mix of modern day religions, and also a mix of the beliefs.

Similar to how all human religions can be traced back to animism (The belief that every natural object, is a spirit), where we branched off of that over thousands of years... Eventually coming to what we have today.

I'd like to think, as globalization became a larger, and larger thing, that eventually we would merge aspects of religions into a simpler form. While there will still be people following the old way of doing things.

Think of it as the Great Schism being completely brought back to how it was, and that religions with very similar beliefs, become one larger religion, with religious heads still being a thing, and attempts by the religious heads to convert other species into their way of thinking.

If you'd like someone to help you spear head this, religion is one of those things I may not believe in irl, but it fascinates the hell out of me.

(Image is too big: http://i2.wp.com/ultraculture.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/timeline-myth-religion.jpg)

 

I would love to see religions be more of a driving force for peoples beliefs, the only way for that though would be to flesh it out, and explain the religions beliefs in a way that doesn't require people to read through paragraphs of explanations.

[Nikov]

I would not standardize human religions, but I would start putting some guard rails on what kind of crap the Chaplain can practice.

[rrrrrr]

I'd accept literally anything but the tired sci-fi bullshit cop out of "Everyone is an atheist because my parents made me go to church fuck you dad (buddhism is cool though because i never actually studied it lol)"

Have everyone worship Clisapeth for all I fucking care, just for the love of all that is holy do not make everyone an atheist. It's so pants shittingly Western centric.

And another thing: should you so choose to completely erase human spirituality, do not use the excuse of "they went to the stars and found nothing". Literally no religion says god/the gods are hiding somewhere past Pluto so no one would suddenly stop believing in religion because space colonization is achieved.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I'd accept literally anything but the tired sci-fi bullshit copout of "Everyone is an atheist because my parents made me go to church fuck you dad (buddhism is cool though because i never actually studied it lol)"

 

A global church (placeholder named Church of the Unity) becoming the dominant religion of humanity in the 22nd~23rd centuries would let us do a lot of things, in my mind. It would give Sol-centric characters a unique flavor to them, and would either allow frontier/outer colonies characters to be adherents or having specifically left to get away from the weirdly religious Sol Alliance that doesn't tolerate faiths based on the pre-Alliance humanity which was ununited and disorganized and all sorts of foul adjectives. Or their ancestors, the original colonists from Earth, choosing to leave the planet with the additional push factor of wanting to get away from this whole "Unity is Life" global phenomenon threatening their own faith and institutions.

Chaplains that preached Unity ideals would be close to Sol. This gives them a cultural and political aspect as well as spiritual, since Tau Ceti is the bastard-child that Nanotrasen kidnapped and Sol is angrily trying to call CPS to bring them back home for a good beating and lecture on worshipping the Great Aardvark.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Marlon Phoenix

[rrrrrr]

I really hope it's not a generic combination of all Abrahamic religions because that would absolutely never happen under any circumstances in reality.

[Dreviore]

I'd accept literally anything but the tired sci-fi bullshit copout of "Everyone is an atheist because my parents made me go to church fuck you dad (buddhism is cool though because i never actually studied it lol)"

 

A global church (placeholder named Church of the Unity) becoming the dominant religion of humanity in the 22nd~23rd centuries would let us do a lot of things, in my mind. It would give Sol-centric characters a unique flavor to them, and would either allow frontier/outer colonies characters to be adherents or having specifically left to get away from the weirdly religious Sol Alliance that doesn't tolerate faiths based on the pre-Alliance humanity which was ununited and disorganized and all sorts of foul adjectives. Or their ancestors, the original colonists from Earth, choosing to leave the planet with the additional push factor of wanting to get away from this whole "Unity is Life" global phenomenon threatening their own faith and institutions.

Chaplains that preached Unity ideals would be close to Sol. This gives them a cultural and political aspect as well as spiritual, since Tau Ceti is the bastard-child that Nanotrasen kidnapped and Sol is angrily trying to call CPS to bring them back home for a good beating and lecture on worshipping the Great Aardvark.

 

Assuming people could still practice the old religions. We'll still need multiple religions though, because some religions are way too far off from one another to realistically merge. Like you are never going to see the Catholic pope, and an Islamic Caliph agree on how to pay tribute to your god.

[Nanako]

i like the open-ended lack-of-a-system we already have.

I guess i'm not opposed to inventing a significant/majority sol faith, but don't make it a requirement. The fun of playing chaplain is to invent your own religion and preach it

[Guest]

The religion page is something I've promised myself that I'll do soon. However, it wouldn't be a strict history of religions and the list of valid ones, but simply a summery of what happened with mainstream religious beliefs, because religions change with the culture, spread into offshots, offshots change, etc. All you need to do is look at the religion charts. Christianity alone has a lot of different versions. Imo, this is the only thing we should really do, add some history. Anything more impedes people's creativity.

However, pizza religion guys should still be viewed as crazies. People scoff at new age cults, people scoff at scientology, people call mormons retarded. Trying to force anyone to accept retarded, 5 seconds of thought religions as something canon and logical only goes to hit people's immersion. Having it make sense goes a long way to fix most issues. Idk, unless they really, really enjoy trolling religion as a priest. It's up to them.

As for chaplain, I have a good suggestion of how to solve all of the issues at once. Redefine the role. Because, on one hand, it has mechanics that are useful and fun in the game. On the other, I rarely see anyone want to RP with chaplains, unless it's some insane gimmick about crusading and heretics. I think, one of the reasons for that state of affairs is variety of religions that the chaplains take. Why not make the chaplain what it's suppose to be? Someone who's educated in all religions, and capable of servicing almost all cultures and religions to a limited extent. Or, simply change the role to be something else entirerly.

[Nikov]

The problem with being educated in all religions and able to serve anyone is that you will be implicitly lying to most of them.

I play a serious chaplain from time to time as an alternative job, as a future Protestant brand. Its largely because nobody else will do it otherwise. Whoo, pizzatology.

[Zundy]

The problem with being educated in all religions and able to serve anyone is that you will be implicitly lying to most of them.

I play a serious chaplain from time to time as an alternative job, as a future Protestant Brandeis. Its largely because nobody else will do it otherwise. Whoo, pizzatology.

 

Not if you're from the Sold Unity Church or whatever where you believe all religions are just different representation's of the same god and as long as they follow what they believe they all go to spess Valhalla TM.

[Guest]

The problem with being educated in all religions and able to serve anyone is that you will be implicitly lying to most of them.

I play a serious chaplain from time to time as an alternative job, as a future Protestant Brandeis. Its largely because nobody else will do it otherwise. Whoo, pizzatology.

 

Not if you're from the Sold Unity Church or whatever where you believe all religions are just different representation's of the same god and as long as they follow what they believe they all go to spess Valhalla TM.

What Zundy said, plus, one doesn't need to be a christian to advise christians on what to do. All you need to do is have an understand of what the core tenents of faith are, the overall spirit and the history of it. A chaplain should be an agnostic on duty, else, 99% of the time, he's fucking useless or downright damaging. What his personal beliefs are is irrelevant.

[Conservatron]

I'd accept literally anything but the tired sci-fi bullshit copout of "Everyone is an atheist because my parents made me go to church fuck you dad (buddhism is cool though because i never actually studied it lol)"

 

A global church (placeholder named Church of the Unity) becoming the dominant religion of humanity in the 22nd~23rd centuries would let us do a lot of things, in my mind. It would give Sol-centric characters a unique flavor to them, and would either allow frontier/outer colonies characters to be adherents or having specifically left to get away from the weirdly religious Sol Alliance that doesn't tolerate faiths based on the pre-Alliance humanity which was ununited and disorganized and all sorts of foul adjectives. Or their ancestors, the original colonists from Earth, choosing to leave the planet with the additional push factor of wanting to get away from this whole "Unity is Life" global phenomenon threatening their own faith and institutions.

Chaplains that preached Unity ideals would be close to Sol. This gives them a cultural and political aspect as well as spiritual, since Tau Ceti is the bastard-child that Nanotrasen kidnapped and Sol is angrily trying to call CPS to bring them back home for a good beating and lecture on worshipping the Great Aardvark.

I've had in Xullie's background that he is a member of the Mars Catholic Church, a sect of Roman Catholicism but under the purview of the Archbishop of Olympia

mainly because after we ruled Earth was still standing, naturally Vatican City still stood

[Nikov]

Now I'm afraid I'm digging trenches and putting up barbed wire. It is acceptable if the lore is fleshed out in a believable way, but do not require anything of it. I would rather have Pizzatologists than every chaplain be rendered generic.

[Mofo1995]

I'm for a fleshing out of the future of established religions, like maybe an eigth and ninth Ecumenical Councils of Orthodoxy (there's one in the works for 2016, the first since the Triumph of Orthodoxy). But I think you would need some theologians to really flesh out how church doctrines may have adapted to the future. Otherwise, I agree that we should allow all the random niche religions to keep coming in from humans, since they can sometimes be awfully funny and interesting.

[Dreviore]

People seem to think standardizing religions would completely kill the joy of making your own religion for chaplain purposes.

No, there's nothing preventing you from worshiping an old religion.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

You misunderstand. A global church for Sol wouldn't make it so you weren't allowed to be whatever religion that you wanted. It would add a dynamic for Sol Alliance-based characters to have this faith being the de facto faith of the nation - like the US is super protestant despite the separate of church and state. You can still worship ass, but you face(d) obstacles put in front of you when you go into the Sol Alliance to preach or get angry glares from everyone.

This church, whatever form it takes, would be an additional reasoning that you'd move to Tau Ceti - to escape religious discrimination or persecution. Tau Ceti would be a more diverse mix, but the encroachment of the sol-centric church would form an additional aspect to the whole tau ceti vs sol conflict.

[Mofo1995]

When you put it like that, Jackboot, I kind of like it. The big question which I'm sure is on everyone's tongue though is simple. What religion would be dominant in the Sol Alliance in 2458, especially given its magnificent size? How do we tackle this question in a manner which is not only believable, but also satisfactory to our player base? What should the relationship be between church and state, as in, how legitimized would this church be by the legislation of the Sol Alliance? I think it would be good to hammer out some of these details before deciding if it should be enstated. Maybe a united Orthodox-Catholic church of some sort (end of great schism), or possibly Islam. Or, maybe state-sponsored Atheism?

[Dreviore]

When you put it like that, Jackboot, I kind of like it. The big question which I'm sure is on everyone's tongue though is simple. What religion would be dominant in the Sol Alliance in 2458, especially given its magnificent size? How do we tackle this question in a manner which is not only believable, but also satisfactory to our player base? What should the relationship be between church and state, as in, how legitimized would this church be by the legislation of the Sol Alliance? I think it would be good to hammer out some of these details before deciding if it should be enstated. Maybe a united Orthodox-Catholic church of some sort (end of great schism), or possibly Islam. Or, maybe state-sponsored Atheism?

 

Well since my posts keep getting overlooked here. I don't see there being a primary religion, but likely there would be both. Islamic religions will never see eye to eye with Catholicism or Orthodox.

But i could see modern day majority religions being merged into one religion assuming they're similar. So Orthodox, Catholicism, and Christianity could merge, while this many Islamic religions merge into one and so on and so fourth. Essentially turning a similar religion with hundreds of branches back into one, potentially less extreme religion.

While corporations of Tau Ceti could primarily focus on a Church of Unity, which believes all religions focus on the same entities, just preach differently and for different reasons, for this reason the church would also need to be void of all religious images.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Guest

[rrrrrr]

Islam will definitely merge into one religion. Shias and Sunnis get along astonishingly well.

[Mofo1995]

Well since my posts keep getting overlooked here. I don't see there being a primary religion, but likely there would be both. Islamic religions will never see eye to eye with Catholicism or Orthodox.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to overlook you. I agree, Islamic sects would likely never see eye-to-eye with Catholicism and Orthodoxy, and neither would they see eye-to-eye with Islamic religions. I agree that the Sol Alliance shouldn't be monolithic, but it doesn't rule out one religion being dominant enough to eek out state-sponsorship. State-sponsorship is also a good catalyst for the spreading of a religion (generally, not always). And, of course, the legislative legitimization of a religion to the state would by no means make all other religions vaporize.

And over 80% of Muslims are Sunni, so I would assume if a sect of Islam were to become state sponsored, it would be that.

EDIT: all though it is debatable, I could see a unified Orthodox-Catholic church in the next four hundred years. Relations between the churches following the collapse of the Soviet Union have been exceptionally well. The face of this church is further debatable, as it would likely be a compromise of some sort on a spectrum between the two with Westerners keeping their liturgical traditions and Easterners keeping there's, similar to Greek and Latin Catholic differences today. The Pope would likely be a patriarch with some sort of decreased papal supremecy, yet still higher than merely "first among equals."

[Guest]

A state sponsorship of a religion or ethnicity by a government as large and diverse as Sol would be a very bad idea. It did not start as space US, but space UN, so all religions have an equal status. Religions are free to spread any way they can imagine, as long as their actions aren't illegal. If someone want to make a colony for themselves and institute Sharia law, a new Papacy or new Tibet, they can do so, as long core principles that Sol claims to uphold aren't being broken. They exist to enforce peace and cooperation, not promote ideologies.

Also, mofo, Elena belongs to the Orthodox church of Mars, with her parents being all traditional ruskies on Mars, almost like jews. But I guess exceptions exist.

[Owen]

Well since my posts keep getting overlooked here. I don't see there being a primary religion, but likely there would be both. Islamic religions will never see eye to eye with Catholicism or Orthodox.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to overlook you. I agree, Islamic sects would likely never see eye-to-eye with Catholicism and Orthodoxy, and neither would they see eye-to-eye with Islamic religions. I agree that the Sol Alliance shouldn't be monolithic, but it doesn't rule out one religion being dominant enough to eek out state-sponsorship. State-sponsorship is also a good catalyst for the spreading of a religion (generally, not always). And, of course, the legislative legitimization of a religion to the state would by no means make all other religions vaporize.

And over 80% of Muslims are Sunni, so I would assume if a sect of Islam were to become state sponsored, it would be that.

EDIT: all though it is debatable, I could see a unified Orthodox-Catholic church in the next four hundred years. Relations between the churches following the collapse of the Soviet Union have been exceptionally well. The face of this church is further debatable, as it would likely be a compromise of some sort on a spectrum between the two with Westerners keeping their liturgical traditions and Easterners keeping there's, similar to Greek and Latin Catholic differences today. The Pope would likely be a patriarch with some sort of decreased papal supremecy, yet still higher than merely "first among equals."

 

The thing about the merging of Orthodoxy and Catholicism, I feel could be extremely likely if relations stay on the same path as they have been. As far as I know, relations have had a MASSIVE improvement in the last century or so, I don't see a problem there.

One thing I was thinking is, there could still be the Abrahamic religions, no matter how minor they may be in the future but there could be more enlightenment focused, peace shit. I don't fucking know, I would like to see some imaginative evolution into some fictional religions though. Just something away from the norm but not too insane. More like, a code of morals instead of a unified religion.

[Vittorio Giurifiglio]

Islam will definitely merge into one religion. Shias and Sunnis get along astonishingly well.

 

This is Sarcasm right?

 

Well since my posts keep getting overlooked here. I don't see there being a primary religion, but likely there would be both. Islamic religions will never see eye to eye with Catholicism or Orthodox.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to overlook you. I agree, Islamic sects would likely never see eye-to-eye with Catholicism and Orthodoxy, and neither would they see eye-to-eye with Islamic religions. I agree that the Sol Alliance shouldn't be monolithic, but it doesn't rule out one religion being dominant enough to eek out state-sponsorship. State-sponsorship is also a good catalyst for the spreading of a relig

ion (generally, not always). And, of course, the legislative legitimization of a religion to the state would by no means make all other religions vaporize.

And over 80% of Muslims are Sunni, so I would assume if a sect of Islam were to become state sponsored, it would be that.

EDIT: all though it is debatable, I could see a unified Orthodox-Catholic church in the next four hundred years. Relations between the churches following the collapse of the Soviet Union have been exceptionally well. The face of this church is further debatable, as it would likely be a compromise of some sort on a spectrum between the two with Westerners keeping their liturgical traditions and Easterners keeping there's, similar to Greek and Latin Catholic differences today. The Pope would likely be a patriarch with some sort of decreased papal supremecy, yet still higher than merely "first among equals."

 

Very limited chance of that happening, Perhaps but the theological issues would have to be dealt with such as,

Transubstantiation

Married Priests

Filioque

Views on Mary

And finally the starkly contrasting views of Catholicism and Greek Orthodoxy on the Primacy of the Bishop of Rome

An easier merger would be between the Anglican Communion and the Catholic Church

Edited April 5, 2016 by Guest

[Nikov]

I am improving my trench into a proper bunker.