Humanity & Religion: Do We Standardize The Unwhitelisted?

[Vittorio Giurifiglio]

When you put it like that, Jackboot, I kind of like it. The big question which I'm sure is on everyone's tongue though is simple. What religion would be dominant in the Sol Alliance in 2458, especially given its magnificent size? How do we tackle this question in a manner which is not only believable, but also satisfactory to our player base? What should the relationship be between church and state, as in, how legitimized would this church be by the legislation of the Sol Alliance? I think it would be good to hammer out some of these details before deciding if it should be enstated. Maybe a united Orthodox-Catholic church of some sort (end of great schism), or possibly Islam. Or, maybe state-sponsored Atheism?

 

Well since my posts keep getting overlooked here. I don't see there being a primary religion, but likely there would be both. Islamic religions will never see eye to eye with Catholicism or Orthodox.

But i could see modern day majority religions being merged into one religion assuming they're similar. So Orthodox, Catholicism, and Christianity could merge, while this many Islamic religions merge into one and so on and so fourth. Essentially turning a similar religion with hundreds of branches back into one, potentially less extreme religion.

While corporations of Tau Ceti could primarily focus on a Church of Unity, which believes all religions focus on the same entities, just preach differently and for different reasons, for this reason the church would also need to be void of all religious images.

Your statement on a Church of Unity is similar in a way to the Baha'i faith.

And Islam and Christianity are completely irreconcilably different, Islam denies the Divinty of Christ and his resurrection meaning they reject what makes one Christian.

[Vittorio Giurifiglio]

And on which Creeds would be the majourity in the Sol Alliance? Most obviously Christianity for the sheer location of the original Colonizers, and the subsequent joining of them with less developed nations in Africa and South America, Islam would most probably be the second largest, perhaps Hinduism.

[Mofo1995]

Islam will definitely merge into one religion. Shias and Sunnis get along astonishingly well.

 

This is Sarcasm right?

 

Well since my posts keep getting overlooked here. I don't see there being a primary religion, but likely there would be both. Islamic religions will never see eye to eye with Catholicism or Orthodox.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to overlook you. I agree, Islamic sects would likely never see eye-to-eye with Catholicism and Orthodoxy, and neither would they see eye-to-eye with Islamic religions. I agree that the Sol Alliance shouldn't be monolithic, but it doesn't rule out one religion being dominant enough to eek out state-sponsorship. State-sponsorship is also a good catalyst for the spreading of a relig

ion (generally, not always). And, of course, the legislative legitimization of a religion to the state would by no means make all other religions vaporize.

And over 80% of Muslims are Sunni, so I would assume if a sect of Islam were to become state sponsored, it would be that.

EDIT: all though it is debatable, I could see a unified Orthodox-Catholic church in the next four hundred years. Relations between the churches following the collapse of the Soviet Union have been exceptionally well. The face of this church is further debatable, as it would likely be a compromise of some sort on a spectrum between the two with Westerners keeping their liturgical traditions and Easterners keeping there's, similar to Greek and Latin Catholic differences today. The Pope would likely be a patriarch with some sort of decreased papal supremecy, yet still higher than merely "first among equals."

 

Very limited chance of that happening, Perhaps but the theological issues would have to be dealt with such as,

Transubstantiation

Married Priests

Filioque

Views on Mary

And finally the starkly contrasting views of Catholicism and Greek Orthodoxy on the Primacy of the Bishop of Rome

An easier merger would be between the Anglican Communion and the Catholic Church

 

Greek Catholics have married clergies. The Filioque would, of course, be a major point of contention. Papal Primacy could theoretically be hammered out as some compromise between the two, probably as something more than first among equals, but less than full-on papal primacy. Views on the holy Theotokos might be hard to reconcile, and transubstantiation isn't that bad of an issue, I would argue the leavened/unleavened bread dispute could be considered more contentious.

I also agree, Anglican Communion and Catholic Church would be a very easy merger compared to the former given the extremely similar dogmatic principles and liturgical traditions.

In our fictitious universe, I think that some sort of reunification would be interesting, potentially with some of these issues conceded or compromised each way and a separation of liturgical traditions like we see today with Greek and Latin Catholics.

But, then again, I could be totally wrong. I suppose the Balamand joint declaration leaves me a bit optimistic about Orthodox-Catholic relations, as well as the writings of Metropolitan Hilarion which paint a very positive view of the Catholic Church (and negative view of Uniasts) and the recent meetings of Patriarch Kirill and the Pope.

[rrrrrr]

Islam will definitely merge into one religion. Shias and Sunnis get along astonishingly well.

 

This is Sarcasm right?

To such a degree you wouldn't even believe it.

Part of the reason why I rag so heavily on BS12's old religious lore, written by a guy I know, is because it's home to all the absolutely shit tropes that I wish Aurora can avoid, re: religion.

 

If you decide to go the religious route, the most common NanoTrasen-approved religions (fluffwise) in the year 2560 include:

Unitarianism; the unifying of many major abrahamic Earth religions.

Technologism; the belief that robots and cyborgs are holy

Order of the Great Lady; the belief that the human race was gifted with the knowledge and ambition appropriate by a large, dragon-like alien who we now call Lady Elzra.

 

This is so boldly retarded that I am fucking shocked that a human being typed any of these words. To start: Unitarianism. This would never happen under any circumstances and should absolutely never be thought about as a legitimate thing.

Technologism is retarded. Most cyborgs are essentially slaves and you can count on an increase in anti-AI rhetoric in the future.

This last one is actually really fucking hilarious because it's implied that Dragon Jesus Scientology is considered a legitimate choice of religion. Oh, and about two whole characters followed this religion, one of them being an admin and both of them being quite good friends.

 

Atheism/Agnosticism - This is the current largest of the “beliefs.” About half of the current human population sticks to the idea that there is no higher power or anything of that sort, at least on surveys.

Deism - The belief that through observation and reason, there is infact a “Creator,” but with how vast “Creation” itself -is-, he does not do anything towards it, and lets everything work on the natural laws of creation, so on and so forth. It became a very popular belief in the mid-21st Century, and has continued to grow since then.

Buddhism - One of the few “Old Religions” to have not only survived, but thrived. Buddhism is not as well spread as the other three, but is still one of the larger religions among humanity today. It still follows the same principles as always, its' teachings of moderation having a universal appeal still unmatched.

Unitarianism - Unitarianism is the general demographic under which followers of the Abrahamic religions are grouped. Officially, Unitarianism was created out of the merging between the Christian belief and the Islamic belief - It was officially formed some time in the mid-22nd Century. It is the belief that God is the all-father, Jesus is his son, and Muhammad is their prophet. There are still radical groups of the original religions, but they are too tiny to actually be noticed outside of Earth. Practicioners of individual Abrahamic faiths are generally plopped under this statistic as well, much to chagrin. Most of their numbers come from the inner Sol system- The farther out from earth, the more these religions have died down.

Shinto - Another of the “Old Religions” to have survived to the 26th Century. Shinto is fairly popular in the more oriental colonies among the stars due to financial backers. It also has a fairly large presence on the Moon due to Japanese/American moguls owning a majority of it.

Taoism/Confucianism - The final of the “Old Religions” to still be popular among the stars. The chinese indigenous religions tend to be the least considered of the big religions, though certainly a big factor - After escaping Earth post the political turmoil, many chinese emigrators from Earth tended to take to buddhism, but it remains a very strong faith out in many previously chinese mining colonies in the various asteroid belts.

 

Read this. I'll hold off on pointing out things that are wrong with it, because the body of text itself serves as proof.

Anyways, avoid literally everything I quoted above.

[Vittorio Giurifiglio]

Islam will definitely merge into one religion. Shias and Sunnis get along astonishingly well.

 

This is Sarcasm right?

To such a degree you wouldn't even believe it.

Part of the reason why I rag so heavily on BS12's old religious lore, written by a guy I know, is because it's home to all the absolutely shit tropes that I wish Aurora can avoid, re: religion.

 

If you decide to go the religious route, the most common NanoTrasen-approved religions (fluffwise) in the year 2560 include:

Unitarianism; the unifying of many major abrahamic Earth religions.

Technologism; the belief that robots and cyborgs are holy

Order of the Great Lady; the belief that the human race was gifted with the knowledge and ambition appropriate by a large, dragon-like alien who we now call Lady Elzra.

 

This is so boldly retarded that I am fucking shocked that a human being typed any of these words. To start: Unitarianism. This would never happen under any circumstances and should absolutely never be thought about as a legitimate thing.

Technologism is retarded. Most cyborgs are essentially slaves and you can count on an increase in anti-AI rhetoric in the future.

This last one is actually really fucking hilarious because it's implied that Dragon Jesus Scientology is considered a legitimate choice of religion. Oh, and about two whole characters followed this religion, one of them being an admin and both of them being quite good friends.

 

Atheism/Agnosticism - This is the current largest of the “beliefs.” About half of the current human population sticks to the idea that there is no higher power or anything of that sort, at least on surveys.

Deism - The belief that through observation and reason, there is infact a “Creator,” but with how vast “Creation” itself -is-, he does not do anything towards it, and lets everything work on the natural laws of creation, so on and so forth. It became a very popular belief in the mid-21st Century, and has continued to grow since then.

Buddhism - One of the few “Old Religions” to have not only survived, but thrived. Buddhism is not as well spread as the other three, but is still one of the larger religions among humanity today. It still follows the same principles as always, its' teachings of moderation having a universal appeal still unmatched.

Unitarianism - Unitarianism is the general demographic under which followers of the Abrahamic religions are grouped. Officially, Unitarianism was created out of the merging between the Christian belief and the Islamic belief - It was officially formed some time in the mid-22nd Century. It is the belief that God is the all-father, Jesus is his son, and Muhammad is their prophet. There are still radical groups of the original religions, but they are too tiny to actually be noticed outside of Earth. Practicioners of individual Abrahamic faiths are generally plopped under this statistic as well, much to chagrin. Most of their numbers come from the inner Sol system- The farther out from earth, the more these religions have died down.

Shinto - Another of the “Old Religions” to have survived to the 26th Century. Shinto is fairly popular in the more oriental colonies among the stars due to financial backers. It also has a fairly large presence on the Moon due to Japanese/American moguls owning a majority of it.

Taoism/Confucianism - The final of the “Old Religions” to still be popular among the stars. The chinese indigenous religions tend to be the least considered of the big religions, though certainly a big factor - After escaping Earth post the political turmoil, many chinese emigrators from Earth tended to take to buddhism, but it remains a very strong faith out in many previously chinese mining colonies in the various asteroid belts.

 

Read this. I'll hold off on pointing out things that are wrong with it, because the body of text itself serves as proof.

Anyways, avoid literally everything I quoted above.

CANCER...Anyone who has any understanding of the differences between Abrahamic religions would know that. it was impossible...

[Owen]

CANCER...Anyone who has any understanding of the differences between Abrahamic religions would know that. it was impossible...

 

I agree, that would not be a possibility. I was more thinking along the lines of some sort of Christian unity.

I mean, instead of having these "Old Religions" what do you guys think of some sort of evolution of religions? I am drawing blanks of some examples but just something that progressed over time that has become less and less like it previously was.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Let me pose a question quickly: Would Islam even survive into the year 2458? I have a feeling that first contact with the Skrell and other xenos would utterly gut the foundations of Islam, as well as all but the most progressive of sects based on the Abrahamic faith. I have a feeling that Islam, Judaism and Christianity would all but go extinct, and that atheism and religions less focused on deity worship (i.e. Buddhism) would make up the beliefs of the majority of the population. I also imagine new pagan religions would pop up in the colonies, like that pantheon Gollee made thst resides on Akhet. Remember, this is 450 years in the future, with FTL travel and aliens.

[Owen]

Let me pose a question quickly: Would Islam even survive into the year 2458? I have a feeling that first contact with the Skrell and other xenos would utterly gut the foundations of Islam, as well as all but the most progressive of sects based on the Abrahamic faith. I have a feeling that Islam, Judaism and Christianity would all but go extinct, and that atheism and religions less focused on deity worship (i.e. Buddhism) would make up the beliefs of the majority of the

population. Remember, this is 450 years in the future, with FTL travel and aliens.

 

I mean, that is a very good point which is why I was sort of saying that things could evolve to be more "Liberal" with their practices. I know a few Orthodox Christians who interpret the Bible and things like that in a different way. Just, like accepting Science but having the belief that there was something that started everything. Like a hands off God or stuff like that.

I am thinking that would be a possible evolutionary path for the religions. I am FAR from an expert on religions but I think that there would be many changes in their interpretations of their holy books. At least for the Abrahamic religions.

[Lucychan42]

Many scientists do choose to follow "Deism". Quite simply, it's the belief that God made everything to do as it is. He doesn't interfere, but there is a higher power responsible for the creation of the universe and everything within it. Evolution is a byproduct of the creation of life and et cet era. It's a very free form religion, and is essentially agnosticism with a few differences (none of which I understand enough to distinguish in a concise manner).

Most religions would likely delve through that route or pursue religion in the sense of "we were all created by Deity. We must follow Spiritual and Mental guidelines to achieve Enlightenment/Peace/Rebirth." Religions that funnel themselves into contradictory beliefs may quickly falter in presence due to the existence of multiple alien races. If one religion appeases to even two races, then it will launch forward in significance and coverage. And to do that, it must be very progressive in its ideals. Can it be strict? Yes. But it must appeal to a wider audience to have success in an age of space colonization.

[Mofo1995]

Let me pose a question quickly: Would Islam even survive into the year 2458? I have a feeling that first contact with the Skrell and other xenos would utterly gut the foundations of Islam, as well as all but the most progressive of sects based on the Abrahamic faith. I have a feeling that Islam, Judaism and Christianity would all but go extinct, and that atheism and religions less focused on deity worship (i.e. Buddhism) would make up the beliefs of the majority of the population. I also imagine new pagan religions would pop up in the colonies, like that pantheon Gollee made thst resides on Akhet. Remember, this is 450 years in the future, with FTL travel and aliens.

So, busting out my Holly Babble here, it's important to note that there is a strong doctrine that Jews are the chosen people of Yahweh and all the other humans are just beasts of the earth even if they look similar. Going further, Christianity essentially just broadens the scope and says all humans are created in god's image and can seek salvation. I can't attest as much to Islam, but ultimately it is entirely plausible that Judaism and Christianity could be alive and well with relatively simple theological explanations, with little or no reason to be disheartened or disband just because of the discovery of more technologically advanced aliens. The Habby Bibblel says that got created all the birds in the sky, the beasts that walk on land, and the creatures of the sea, with some translations saying "Earth" instead of "Land." Skrell could easily be considered creatures of the sea, and Tajarans and Unathi simply beasts that walked on land. It's rather clear though that Humans are made in God's image. The discovery of other peoples with more advanced technology never disbanded Judaism, and neither Christianity or Islam. I did have an interesting idea the other day of putting in a lore canonization app for a 9th Ecumenical Council on Orthodoxy to discuss whether Xenos could be faithful, and then trying to base a for or against argument on scripture, but laziness took part.

[canon35]

Here's how I'd say about going about it. Keep religions as is, but more "modern" (Example. Pope being based in Vatican, but still applies to Roman Catholics across space.). Please don't go for those stupid "Almost everyone is atheist" or the even more idiotic "The 3 religions fused into one!" idea. If people want to make their own religions, let them. We got all sorts of recent ones that got a few thousand followers (Scientology, Jedi, etc) and I assume by the time it hits 2458 there's gonna be a lot around the place.

[Owen]

Here's how I'd say about going about it. Keep religions as is, but more "modern" (Example. Pope being based in Vatican, but still applies to Roman Catholics across space.). Please don't go for those stupid "Almost everyone is atheist" or the even more idiotic "The 3 religions fused into one!" idea. If people want to make their own religions, let them. We got all sorts of recent ones that got a few thousand followers (Scientology, Jedi, etc) and I assume by the time it hits 2458 there's gonna be a lot around the place.

 

Yeah, like Jackboot said, there is still the possibility of having plenty of those small religions but, you will be treated, likely as an odd person following the "Jedi" religion. Just establishing some larger religions and leaving the players to fill in the gaps, I would think would be a good way to go.

[canon35]

Yeah, like Jackboot said, there is still the possibility of having plenty of those small religions but, you will be treated, likely as an odd person following the "Jedi" religion. Just establishing some larger religions and leaving the players to fill in the gaps, I would think would be a good way to go.

 

Yup. Just throw in some middle and outer rim medium sized religions, maybe 1 frontier kooky cult, let the players think of a religion if they want to make one.

[Vittorio Giurifiglio]

Let me pose a question quickly: Would Islam even survive into the year 2458? I have a feeling that first contact with the Skrell and other xenos would utterly gut the foundations of Islam, as well as all but the most progressive of sects based on the Abrahamic faith. I have a feeling that Islam, Judaism and Christianity would all but go extinct, and that atheism and religions less focused on deity worship (i.e. Buddhism) would make up the beliefs of the majority of the population. I also imagine new pagan religions would pop up in the colonies, like that pantheon Gollee made thst resides on Akhet. Remember, this is 450 years in the future, with FTL travel and aliens.

Christianity survived 2016 years, and has met a different Continent, Why would Aliens crush Abrahamic faiths? No where in the Creation myth (Which is regarded as a allegorical by the Catholic Church) Does it say Humans are the only form of life in the Galaxy, Maybe Judaism with it's chosen people doctrine. 1000 years have passed and no majour Pagan Pantheons have sprouted up, Unless you count Sikhism which is an Ethnic religion.

[Vittorio Giurifiglio]

Let me pose a question quickly: Would Islam even survive into the year 2458? I have a feeling that first contact with the Skrell and other xenos would utterly gut the foundations of Islam, as well as all but the most progressive of sects based on the Abrahamic faith. I have a feeling that Islam, Judaism and Christianity would all but go extinct, and that atheism and religions less focused on deity worship (i.e. Buddhism) would make up the beliefs of the majority of the

population. Remember, this is 450 years in the future, with FTL travel and aliens.

 

I mean, that is a very good point which is why I was sort of saying that things could evolve to be more "Liberal" with their practices. I know a few Orthodox Christians who interpret the Bible and things like that in a different way. Just, like accepting Science but having the belief that there was something that started everything. Like a hands off God or stuff like that.

I am thinking that would be a possible evolutionary path for the religions. I am FAR from an expert on religions but I think that there would be many changes in their interpretations of their holy books. At least for the Abrahamic religions.

 

To Clarify this is the position of the Catholic church after the encyclical Humani Generis.

[rrrrrr]

There is, in fact, a Catholic contingency plan for alien contact. It's "God made them and they can totally convert to Christianity if they want".

Judaism has survived for thousands of years. It's Jew-centric and the sudden discovery of sentient aliens would mean nothing and would not trouble anyone.

[Guest]

This thread... turned stupid so fast.

I don't think any of you is really educated enough to make accurate predictions, because this seem to be Tytos vs. Others. And fucking no, Catholic Space Jesus won't be official religion of Sol Alliance as long as I'm in the lore team.

[Zundy]

I dunno, why not just have a new extremely aggressive (to other theists) religion that is a branch of the Abrahamic (for ease) which went through a huge state of religious 'conquest' before having it's shit slapped by the atheist/deist crowd bringing it to where it is now, a pro-"like, we're all just worshipping the same god guis, let's be friends" religion with "shit man, remember those guys? They were crusaders on steroids not so long ago" suspicious undertones for funsies.

Saves us having to bullshit a reason for all the religions to inexplicably merge and be besties.

[Guest]

I can write up my detailed view on it, but I agree that idea of merging is ridiculous. Even if a consensus among public leaders is achived to allow it, even if most people are up for it, even if you can put aside centuries of bloodshed and historical/cultural differences, there will always be deviants. With humanity as it is (spanning 1000+ planets and systems) it's near impossible to enforce dogmatic purity EVEN IF they were allowed to.

[NebulaFlare]

I would not standardize human religions, but I would start putting some guard rails on what kind of crap the Chaplain can practice.

 

Oooooh yes. This please.

[Vittorio Giurifiglio]

This thread... turned stupid so fast.

I don't think any of you is really educated enough to make accurate predictions, because this seem to be Tytos vs. Others. And fucking no, Catholic Space Jesus won't be official religion of Sol Alliance as long as I'm in the lore team.

No suggested that, The Sol Alliance is secular that's it.

[Vittorio Giurifiglio]

I dunno, why not just have a new extremely aggressive (to other theists) religion that is a branch of the Abrahamic (for ease) which went through a huge state of religious 'conquest' before having it's shit slapped by the atheist/deist crowd bringing it to where it is now, a pro-"like, we're all just worshipping the same god guis, let's be friends" religion with "shit man, remember those guys? They were crusaders on steroids not so long ago" suspicious undertones for funsies.

Saves us having to bullshit a reason for all the religions to inexplicably merge and be besties.

 

"I dunno, why not just have a new extremely aggressive (to other theists) religion that is a branch of the Abrahamic (for ease) which went through a huge state of religious 'conquest'"

What Islam?

[Zundy]

I dunno, why not just have a new extremely aggressive (to other theists) religion that is a branch of the Abrahamic (for ease) which went through a huge state of religious 'conquest' before having it's shit slapped by the atheist/deist crowd bringing it to where it is now, a pro-"like, we're all just worshipping the same god guis, let's be friends" religion with "shit man, remember those guys? They were crusaders on steroids not so long ago" suspicious undertones for funsies.

Saves us having to bullshit a reason for all the religions to inexplicably merge and be besties.

 

"I dunno, why not just have a new extremely aggressive (to other theists) religion that is a branch of the Abrahamic (for ease) which went through a huge state of religious 'conquest'"

What Islam?

 

And Christianity, and Buddhism, and Hinduism etc etc.

This new religion would have bested them all (for now) and became the new major religion. Sure the others exist, but the "Sol Unity" or whatever faith is the Alliance's main.

They'd have done it through a mix of clever preacher zealots and aggressive terrori-errr holy warrior zealots a la every major religion that ever was.

It's simple at it's roots and can be padded as much as the lore team wishes. It's also not pants-on-head-retarded-flower-power-one love bullshit which is a plus.

[Guest]

We can turn Scientology into that. I mean, their religion is based on aliens, it would simply bloom when Skrell were discovered.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Scientology is literally a brainwashing cult founded by a mediocre science fiction writer so he could scam rich people out of money.

Also, while Christianity, Catholicism and Judaism may survive and adapt, I highly doubt Islam would, especially since half of them are actively trying to kill the other half.