Character Complaint: Cadmus

[veradox]

please never post paragraphs on things related to me without one of those really nice and bold tl;drs and i'm sorry that i can't tl;dr this since it's a response post

only just now skimmed through this and saw i was called upon but ill throw a couple things in here in the middle of the morning again -- i've already explained that in moments with an excessive amount of shitpost and excitement resulted in a forward tactical roll through the usually drawn lines of ingame restraint or were utilized at some shitty grapple with the humorous aspects of a really bad situation, i won't be going any further in depth with that. it's an ooc thing of 'keeping yourself together' that reflected into ic interactions. character actions are often more mild, but a recent continuity of memes and BS create a reciprocating attitude. a large amount of personality complaints are on the basis of how individuals believe and demand out of character design traits, even when there is not an x amount of personalities and philosophies. instances where 'overboard' apply is a dead horse topic that i've explained and accept fault for based on a steady and progressive veer based off of scenarios. this is probably where the complaint stems, and anything further is probably irrelevant to the host of the complaint. there's no better way to put it, it's a personal fault.

through personal opinion and probably a shareable opinion an android or robotic unit is designed to fulfill a role in a particularly designed and set mode of operations be it personality, lack thereof, or their methods of practicing their work. this would usually be precise and without consequence. i've an android i enjoyed playing that's near silent, fulfills orders and operates on a set template of discussion and responses because i respect the idea of that. cyborg units are individuals merged with synthetic chassis and bound by lawsets to fulfill the tasks required of them in such lawsets and positions they're placed in. in the event the process of integration goes awry for any number of reasons, you're probably likely to operate under the same mannerisms and philosophy of an android or robotic unit. the character's personality is to be believed to be retained through integration, not programmed, and held with their own set of reasoning. this continues on up until the instance where law conflicts and orders overrule thought processes and beliefs. im under the impression that there is no spirit of synthetics, only slaves or units bound by their uploaded or tagged personality and how it shapes and interacts with their instances of interaction with those around them and their lawsets and how a public eye would view them which, through this wording would imply the 'spirit of synthetics' is a public opinionated belief in my eyes unless directed otherwise. it's been interesting to speak to other synthetics and AIs and it's been interesting to see anti-synthetics be incited and mildly waylaid by the discussions and interactions made.

knowledge is consistent through this specific character because they were played consistently with the capacity to comprehend their department's operations. these are restricted to medicinal practices, the operation and running of research, and being versed mildly in law supported by law uploads and module precision. any instance of cadmus working outside of that role was done, as might've been witnessed with viewing prior posts, sorely out of the fact that there were orders made or other departments were so terribly lacking that there would be no point to surviving the round otherwise. character knowledge was not applied to departments outside of the deviating module, but could be found in usage by relevant modules or as what might've been mentioned, a custodial unit which was the first module ever utilized for this character for numerous rounds, because that has no ultimate specialty present in it and no trade skill. you'll almost never find me in surgical, engineering, construction. service or whathaveyou unless there was some degree of preferential temporary transitioning or a standing order. with those roles outside of what could be established as routine module uploads held limited information and applicable skills to alternative roles or with a complete disinterest in the topic of or general incapability of providing insight towards alternative department functions. in these instances you could or would presume there would be temporary uploaded information that followed under the utilized department and utility skills that could be found relevant which outsourced most of the information you had prior. in that sense the character's operations are consistent up until you're forced to adopt a role separate to your knowledge.

actions portrayed in game are commonly restriction to a department and committing to some boring wit to scenarios that pass by over general communications. rarely does the character roam, and in doing so, it's usually with some degree of purpose. meddling with a department was not something to have had in mind at the time, as usually people would be grateful to have high-end equipment upgrades and the risk of consequence wasn't an active thought. whoops.

this thread is far too overactive for something that could've been handled in five or six posts and probably end in a similar fashion to whatever happens after this point forward. either way the character in question was an inconsequential use of thirty minutes to define a backstory and specialty and bears no distinctive factors in the line of flavor text, so if the character is deemed too ass to continue existing it's pretty alright, it's no loss of mine. i just don't want to keep typing up these essays. information presented will just help better and refine character quirks and design, and it's appreciated for the input even if most of the non-relateds were, uh. skimmed.

this post was also rushed because i have things to do today and i'd rather this complaint be sped up but i'll probably exist to post again if absolutely necessary

:')

[LordPwner]

LP Here. My Characters (Mainly Uriel) have had a lot of interactions with Cadmus. While they are not always the most pleasant. Used Correctly, you can make great RP out of it. While he doesn't seem like the greatest RPer with this character (Which I can agree. He lacks some RP). However! His 'assholery', as I call it ICly, I tend to use it to build Evans as a character. While yes, it doesn't feel good to be called a Asshole, a prick, etc. You can use it to build character for your character (And maybe OOCly as well). While yes, I agree that a borg, should not go out of their way to do jobs, they are not assigned. (Doing this does cut off people wanting to play those roles and stops the growth of new characters/players into learning Chemistry). And Lastly, Verdox is right on the point you can tell Cadmus to stop. Order it. Don't ask it, Tell him 'Cadmus, fuck off and shut up' He normally leaves you alone after that. He does it with Uriel. Uriel orders it, and so its done. While I agree Cadmus should tone it down just a bit when it comes to Comms and He should switch off his assholery when something IMPORTANT happens, like someone dying/being captured/etc.) Other than that, I have nothing else to say on the matter, We will see what the verdict shall be.

[Ricky_the_banshee]

Okay. So here is what I've gathered.

The most biggest complaint about Cadmus that reappears from most complaintants appear to be his vulgar, aggressive attitude. Understandable. Whether this is part of their original personality or not, it wouldn't make sense for NT to deploy a Cyborg unit who demoralizes the crew by insulting and bullying (in some degree) other crew members even IF you can tell it to stop doing so. Borgs are meannt to give a helpful feeling and show the crew they are willing to help when asked.

Regarding the clone pod construction. Research borgs are allowed to know how certain devices (Such as the extra cloning pod) they are to be constructed and can, with this information, instruct engineers/scientists (with construction knowledge) how to construct these complex machinery. This also counts for Chemistry knowledge. However, as I've stated before previously, should a Research borg work in Medbay's chemistry lab on it's own accord/ Attempt to provide a degree medical treatment/ Work on a secondary cloning pod without futher orders/approval? No, it shouldn't under any circumstances. When they install a module, they are expected to remain their work within their assigned department UNLESS they have been ordered/summoned by Command/AI to dispatch to another location to provide the needed assistance.

So to keep this short. Cadmus needs to tone down it's quirks a little. As logs prove, that is not the way a Cyborg should react when somebody yells out crisis. Also Vera, make sure Cadmus as a borg sticks with their department unless ordered to come. And another note, NT nor the Exodus are looking for a literal Asshole borg to walk around and demoralize crew. A demoralized crew effects productivity from a realistic perspective.

[Nanako]

Wolfwood mentions seeing Cadmus work chemistry as a research borg; in a previous round two days ago (it was a Malf round)

This is literally fine. Chemistry is a scientific discipline as much as a medical one, only two borgs have a chemistry gripper, research and crisis.

Also, during a malf round? Antags are pretty much allowed to powergame to their hearts content, it's necessary for them to function. Like a doctor with syndicate training to hack doors and computers, or a quartermaster who is actually a millenia-old vampire and has thus mastered advanced medicine

 

saw him go in and do it as a janitor borg, just taking it on himself to make some anti-radiation drugs for everyone.

 

I fail to see how this is possible, janitor borgs lack the appendages to pick up beakers

[Nanako]

Also I understand borgs have been outfitted with tools to help in chemical synthesis, and research should be somewhat familiar with chemistry at least from a research aspect, but not medicine. I have seen chemists come in to the game, see the fridge fully stocked, and go in to cryo.

 

Thats pretty unimaginitive of them to only want to deal with the basics.

When the fridge is fully stocked is a perfect time for a chemist to experiment with advanced mixes, chemical smoke grenades, and making performance enhancing drugs for security

 

Also, isn't having to deal with the IC problems of not having medicine supposed to be part of the game? Just like if engineering was understaffed and couldn't fix breaches, lighting, or power problems, Medical not having a chemist means we need to either resort to surgery, or use temporary fixes like splits or painkillers, or give dylovene until radiation wears off instead of hyronalin or artithrazine.

You could say the exact same thing about another chemist doing it though

I think time is the important factor here. If a research borg is doing chemistry, then its not doing research. Cyborgs are designed to hop around jobs and help where they're needed most

 

Additionally, I can maybe understand research being somewhat familiar with genetics, but they are not a medical borg nor a construction borg. They should not know how to build the appropriate parts from an autolathe and protolathe, and tell someone how to set it up.

Scientists do this all the time though. Being able to construct machines is part of the job description for science, they often make things for research use

but when you are power gaming like this in an antag round without any semblence of trying to maintain what you can do and know IC and what permissions you need IC that is not okay.

Its usually RPed that synthetics have access to a database to look up any information they need. As a reasearch borg he didnt have the tools to build things himself, i dont see an issue with instructing someone else

as for permissions, synthetics are bound to their laws, not to corporate regulations. The only problem i could see with permissions is if you told him to stop and he didnt, because they have a law to obey crewmembers. Station bound synthetics are literally above corporate regulations, but they also have no rights.

If something about cadmus annoys you, order him to stop doing it. If cadmus being in your department annoys you, order him to be reassigned to mining or something. Or demand him unlinked from the AI and given a new lawset, cadmus with PALADIN would be amusing

There is kind of a problem that NT wouldn't want a cyborg who's so abrasive. But you don't fire cyborgs, they're not paid employeees with a right to freedom or their personality quirks, you repair them, and modify them, order them to act how you want. They are compelled to submit to modification by qualified personnel and to follow orders from station authority

Is there any problem with cadmus breaking its laws?

[ChevalierMalFet]

Also I understand borgs have been outfitted with tools to help in chemical synthesis, and research should be somewhat familiar with chemistry at least from a research aspect, but not medicine. I have seen chemists come in to the game, see the fridge fully stocked, and go in to cryo.

 

Thats pretty unimaginitive of them to only want to deal with the basics.

When the fridge is fully stocked is a perfect time for a chemist to experiment with advanced mixes, chemical smoke grenades, and making performance enhancing drugs for security

 

Also, isn't having to deal with the IC problems of not having medicine supposed to be part of the game? Just like if engineering was understaffed and couldn't fix breaches, lighting, or power problems, Medical not having a chemist means we need to either resort to surgery, or use temporary fixes like splits or painkillers, or give dylovene until radiation wears off instead of hyronalin or artithrazine.

You could say the exact same thing about another chemist doing it though

I think time is the important factor here. If a research borg is doing chemistry, then its not doing research. Cyborgs are designed to hop around jobs and help where they're needed most

 

Additionally, I can maybe understand research being somewhat familiar with genetics, but they are not a medical borg nor a construction borg. They should not know how to build the appropriate parts from an autolathe and protolathe, and tell someone how to set it up.

Scientists do this all the time though. Being able to construct machines is part of the job description for science, they often make things for research use

but when you are power gaming like this in an antag round without any semblence of trying to maintain what you can do and know IC and what permissions you need IC that is not okay.

Its usually RPed that synthetics have access to a database to look up any information they need. As a reasearch borg he didnt have the tools to build things himself, i dont see an issue with instructing someone else

as for permissions, synthetics are bound to their laws, not to corporate regulations. The only problem i could see with permissions is if you told him to stop and he didnt, because they have a law to obey crewmembers. Station bound synthetics are literally above corporate regulations, but they also have no rights.

If something about cadmus annoys you, order him to stop doing it. If cadmus being in your department annoys you, order him to be reassigned to mining or something. Or demand him unlinked from the AI and given a new lawset, cadmus with PALADIN would be amusing

There is kind of a problem that NT wouldn't want a cyborg who's so abrasive. But you don't fire cyborgs, they're not paid employeees with a right to freedom or their personality quirks, you repair them, and modify them, order them to act how you want. They are compelled to submit to modification by qualified personnel and to follow orders from station authority

Is there any problem with cadmus breaking its laws?

So is that the principle, then, Nanako? Modules are just manual toolsets, and borgs have unlimited skills selection and can instruct anyone to do anything? A borg with a willing assistant can open the door for them and talk them through whatever it wants done?

The laws are just one part of the equation. What you're saying, or what I think you're saying, is that as long as Cadmus is technically not violating any of its laws, it is as perfect a borg as any other borg until someone explicitly requests the law change - which is a time-consuming and exacerbating process if you don't have the right people. Should we just make a note that whenever Cadmus is in a round with command staff, somebody has to say "Cadmus, new command: speak mildly and pleasantly to everyone?" Or can we just assume at some point that this is a problem that should be fixed off-camera, since there's no reason whatsoever not to do it?

From an internal, IC perspective - why hasn't and why shouldn't someone have just said, "Cadmus, stop being a shitmouth" and have it stick? Who is benefiting from the status quo? Do we suddenly care what the machine wants?

[Shadow]

We have already discussed this and we are asking to Vera to tone down Cadmus' behavior. There's no need to discuss this any further, we are just waiting for Vera's reply and then we will lock and archive this.

[veradox]

character is more than likely being shelved to reintegrate into playing human characters, and i'll probably stick to monotonous synthetics to relax on the shitpost factor if i ever feel the need to play them. should he ever resurface it'll be played significantly more mellow and secluded as suggested. thanks for the leniency.

late response because of irl junk mb

[Shadow]

Locking and archiving because this is resolved.