Malfunction AI in General

[Garnascus]

We removed the clause in our rules about antag's primary goal being "contribute to others enjoyment" for a reason. It promoted a disgusting entitlement attitude. People quoted it in ahelps pretty much anytime they died. Sure, i get you do not enjoy getting murdered by a crazy AI but i think if the AI at least puts some effort into it then theres really no issue. Chaos and mass death for its own sake can be your end goal if you work at it properly. I dont think we should try to discourage AI from doing something just because a lot of players dont go about very well. You gotta understand that malf AI is pretty tricky to pull off if you're new to antagging.

[Bokaza]

We're all here because we prefer HRP over LRP. Don't try to deny it, that's the whole reason we're here.

 

Are you saying any sort of violent antaging is LRP?

If you are, you actually proved Delta's point.

[Ornias]

Are you saying any sort of violent antaging is LRP?

Negatory. I never even insinuated that.

Violent antags can be alright, even fun, if played correctly. Violent antags can make murder be dramatic, or sad, or cool, or even funny. But what's not cool is when they just, out of the blue, kill people for no reason, with no intention other than to kill.

Violence is a means to and end, not an end in itself. As a MalfAI, or any antag for that question, murder should not happen out of the blue to someone who has no way of defending themselves and without meaningful RP. Being dragged into the backroom and batoned to death is not fun for anyone. Being shot after a tense discussion, or being killed in a dramatic fashion, on the other hand, is.

That's where I draw the line.

[Bokaza]

I can agree on that. There should and is a line. Main being that some sort of prelude is needed so the crew can be aware of what's going on.

What I don't have anything against is the AI trying to exterminate the crew. It's a heartless machine and the distinction between the crew and it should be apparent. However, considering the mentioned condition, I argue that backroom batoning isn't that bad. I've been batoned a million times like that as a captain and I understand my death may advance the antag's agenda and possibly an interesting plot. My character's not the most important thing on the server and I may or may not get cloned or rejoin as ERT.

It's a difference of perspective. I would be lying I didn't enjoy pointless violence now and then, even though I agree it has no place on aurora outside of special events.

[Guest]

Antagonists of any sort are permitted to kick off the round with a good old murder and continue murdering as they see fit, attaching a gimmick or serial killing card to each if they feel like it.

What antagonists are not permitted to do is do absolutely nothing of interest the whole round and effectively not exist, then bomb some place or make it completely uninhabitable and instantly kill a bunch of people, and then never antagonize for the rest of the round. That's gank. To kill folks without associated lead-up, not necessarily giving them a nine minute dissertation on the communication processes of ants and how they killed your family, but rather, attach an actual RP reason as to why you're murdering folk. Like the ants, for instance. Never operate on OOC goals, give your character goals you think would be reasonable for your character that you are roleplaying as.

That might sound complex for some people who don't think, but the end result is better than any "roll objective" button you could ever push.

[Nanako]

We removed the clause in our rules about antag's primary goal being "contribute to others enjoyment" for a reason.

 

No, you didn't.

 

These sections of the rules specifically exclude random murder for no reason, or without interaction. Both of them clearly contain 'Try to do things that will be fun for others, not only yourself'

Garnascus, were you a part, or otherwise consulted, about writing the new rules? Your opinions seem to go against them.

This thread is fundamentally a complaint about Malf AI's not following the rules as they're written.

 

You gotta understand that malf AI is pretty tricky to pull off if you're new to antagging.

This is not an excuse.

AI is a pretty hard role in general. Any wiki clearly rates its difficulty as hard. You should not be playing AI, let alone Malf, if you're not very sure what you're doing. And ahelping to cryo and be replaced is usually an option.

[Guest]

technically, it pretty much seems like the malfunctioning AI in that round was attempting to generate a story based off of their actions, whether violent or not, and their actions generated interaction, but not in the direct literal sense you think it means.

The rules can be interpreted to suit certain circumstances, that's pretty much why we have mods and admins.

[Garnascus]

you linked the old rules nanako, the clause "CONTRIBUTE TO OTHERS ENJOYMENT" is what was removed. In the new rules it was changed to drive a story. I dont even know why you are quoting rules in the first place when literally my first post on this thread says "so long as its escalated properly". Meaning "so long as you didn't break a rule". Also you cant get used to malf-AI unless you actually play it. Pretending there isnt a lot of pressure on the rule and then coming down hard when they inevitably fuck up is just bad admin practice.

Mass chaos and murder is completely fine within "drive a story and generate interaction". In fact its always been fine. Again, so long as its escalated properly. There is an important distinction between the two rule sets. The original rule implied you as an antag where only their to make everyone else have a good time and how dare you even think about your own fun. fuck that, i am more interested in a decent story being told. Players not ending up enjoying the story you told does not necessarily mean a rule was broken. The distinction is important.

[MrSmooooth]

Hi there. I quite often play AI, when I have the time to commit to a round of SS13. Malfunctioning AI is one of my favorite antagonists to play as, and I do try to make it interesting. The thing is, and this applies to every single antagonist, death happens.

Death happens in this game of ours. If you're an antagonist, you're more likely to be the cause of it. Yes it sucks to be taken out of the round. I'm guilty of calling fowl in dead chat. But it happens. If you expect antagonists of any kind to rock the boat at all without being able to harm people, then you effectively tell them to go not be antagonists.

Ultimately, this thread feels like it was inspired by salt to a degree. I'll agree that the best rounds are where the crew gives some antags room to be an antag. I can't count the number of times I've been screwed out of being able to do fun things with someone cause they would not respond to roleplay and just mindlessly try to robust their way out.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that you need to give antags a chance to be an antag, and antags need to try, even if they are killing people, to spice the round in a way most can enjoy. This requires give and take from both sides. Trying to take out every antag's ability to do things will result in a race to the bottom where nobody will want to play antag. Yes, you will die, and it sucks. Man up and deal with it.

[Arzion]

I saw something happen once

>someone is malf AI

>Fake announcement - Tajara crew must be blah blah blah

>People point out that it was not signed

>They meta the shit out of it and even claim IC-ly that the announcement was not signed thus it's supposed to be invalid

Anyway, here's a better idea as a Malf AI. Do nothing bad.

Absolutely nothing.

Obey orders, don't electrocute doors, don't drain the atmosphere, all that stuff

Just keep hacking APCs.

It will be a guaranteed station control, everyone metas the AI but is forced to not act.

Until the chucklefuck Captain comes with a shitty excuse like "Hello AI let me card u its ai law inspection day lololo!"

[Vanagandr]

I saw something happen once

>someone is malf AI

>Fake announcement - Tajara crew must be blah blah blah

>People point out that it was not signed

>They meta the shit out of it and even claim IC-ly that the announcement was not signed thus it's supposed to be invalid

They got what they deserved, that round - the borgs had orders to set up a singulo and supermatter shard to (presumably) give teeth to the AI's eventual demands. The engiborg got caught, a party of engineers and security officers burst into the (vented) room it was using, ZAS did its thing, and before you know it the better part of a dozen people are dead or dismembered.

Then the other supermatter began to delaminate.

Sic Semper Metagamers.

[nicemoreoften]

I saw something happen once

>someone is malf AI

>Fake announcement - Tajara crew must be blah blah blah

>People point out that it was not signed

>They meta the shit out of it and even claim IC-ly that the announcement was not signed thus it's supposed to be invalid

They got what they deserved, that round - the borgs had orders to set up a singulo and supermatter shard to (presumably) give teeth to the AI's eventual demands. The engiborg got caught, a party of engineers and security officers burst into the (vented) room it was using, ZAS did its thing, and before you know it the better part of a dozen people are dead or dismembered.

Then the other supermatter began to delaminate.

Sic Semper Metagamers.

while the metagaming was terrible that round, that AI tries that every round without fail just trying to stealthnuke/delaminate

[AgentWhatever]

I saw something happen once

>someone is malf AI

>Fake announcement - Tajara crew must be blah blah blah

>People point out that it was not signed

>They meta the shit out of it and even claim IC-ly that the announcement was not signed thus it's supposed to be invalid

They got what they deserved, that round - the borgs had orders to set up a singulo and supermatter shard to (presumably) give teeth to the AI's eventual demands. The engiborg got caught, a party of engineers and security officers burst into the (vented) room it was using, ZAS did its thing, and before you know it the better part of a dozen people are dead or dismembered.

Then the other supermatter began to delaminate.

Sic Semper Metagamers.

while the metagaming was terrible that round, that AI tries that every round without fail just trying to stealthnuke/delaminate

 

Theres a complaint about that specific round by me. As a heavy AI player i know it sucks for the rest of the crew to powergame (goddamnit i keep hitting the submit button)

I mostly try to play it off like a system error that is beyond my control, or show serious conflict on what to do with my newfound freedom, mostly either nuking or storing myself or continuing like nothing ever happened with as little harm to the crew as possible

This week was the worst though. Every time there was malf somebody else took it with me playing just regular ai in between, not even tator

[sonicgotnuked]

Malfunctioning AIs that give the borgs that are slaved to it shit to do are fun (like telling a engineer borgs to build a gas chamber in its core to gas all the filthy cats) I do not like AIs that just move their core to some area, rush delta, and/or plasma nuke the station