Breacher suit.

[Ron]

Okay, so some backstory. I brought this up before, talked to alb, but decided "Maybe that 1 tile screen deduction and slowdown really does balance it." Then I tried it on, before the update, and I was pretty much able to outrobust 2-3 sec who were using batons and tasers when I had no weapons, only the breacher and my fists.

Moving on, numbers.

This is the breacher suit protection. Only Untahni can use this rig, mind you.

armor = list(melee = 60, bullet = 60, laser = 60, energy = 60, bomb = 70, bio = 100, rad = 50)

And it's debuffs.

emp_protection = -20

slowdown = 6

And you loose one tile around your screen, which here is a nice comparison for ya. Normal: http://imgur.com/a/aXiVF Breacher (Ik its shitty drawing.): http://imgur.com/a/fxC4r

So let's compare, things that are worse than the breacher I will mark in red. Things that are better in green.

SECURITY VOIDSUIT.

armor = list(melee = 60, bullet = 10, laser = 30, energy = 5, bomb = 45, bio = 100, rad = 10) Judgment: Breacher is better.

So, some slowdown and seeing 1 less tile /really/ lets you get all of that extra protection? Like, the breacher suit trumps this voidsuit. Unthani security and antags have a huge advantage over security using this, not even accounting for if they get some hyperzine which neglects the slowdown entirely.

Tactical armor (One of the most OP suits in the game. Isn't space worthy though, breacher is.)

armor = list(melee = 60, bullet = 60, laser = 60, energy = 40, bomb = 20, bio = 0, rad = 0) Judgment: I'd take breacher suit incase an explosion went off and caused a breach, or breaches in general.

Mercenary HARDSUIT/RIG.

armor = list(melee = 80, bullet = 65, laser = 5 0, energy = 15, bomb = 80, bio = 100, rad = 60) Judgment: This is better than the breacher.

Mercenary void suit:

armor = list(melee = 60, bullet = 50, laser = 30, energy = 15, bomb = 35, bio = 100, rad = 60) Judgment: Hard to say. I'd take this suit over the breacher, if they were using ballistics.

ERT non-hardsuit/rig armor chestpiece, now I want you to ignore the bio and rad value in this case, as it is just a chestpiece, not a space suit.

armor = list(melee = 60, bullet = 60, laser = 60, energy = 40, bomb = 20 Judgement: Breacher is better slightly.

Vest you buy from the syndicate uplink, again, ignore bio and rad.

armor = list(melee = 50, bullet = 40, laser = 50, energy = 25, bomb = 30. Judgement: Breacher is better in all aspects.

ERT Hardsuit/RIG.

armor = list(melee = 60, bullet = 50, laser = 30,energy = 15, bomb = 30, bio = 100, rad = 100) Judgement: Debatable. I'd take the breacher over the ERT hardsuit personally, however.

Just for fun, the Heavy Asset Protection Module/RIG (Deathsquad armor, pretty much.)

armor = list(melee = 60, bullet = 50, laser = 50,energy = 40, bomb = 40, bio = 100, rad = 100) Judgment: Again, debatable. I'd take the breacher in this case as well.

Just want to see what others think.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Guest

[nicemoreoften]

Remember, this is the NT breacher. The real breacher is around 90 and is much more OP. I say we should nerf the NT breacher as it outclasses pretty much all the hardsuits in combat. (I believe the humans have a second exclusive CC hardsuit that might be better than NT breacher? Don't know stats on that.)

[Ron]

Remember, this is the NT breacher. The real breacher is around 90 and is much more OP. I say we should nerf the NT breacher as it outclasses pretty much all the hardsuits in combat. (I believe the humans have a second exclusive CC hardsuit that might be better than NT breacher? Don't know stats on that.)

Real breacher is:

armor = list(melee = 90, bullet = 90, laser = 90, energy = 90, bomb = 90, bio = 100, rad = 80)

vision_restriction = 0

slowdown = 4

But I don't find that as an issue as it is only spawnable by an admin. Also, I don't know what CC hardsuit you are referencing.

[Snoopy11]

I believe some of the other code-bases have removed it completely from the map, I know Polaris have.

Honestly it's a very good suit that may have some odd RP use later on, but I don't think it should be on the station.

Map it out, add another sec-suit or something. My two cents.

[Alberyk]

The breacher suit has no modules, a massive slowdown that allows anyone to outrun someone inside, it is far less resistent than any hardsuit to emp, and a far bigger slowdown and vision restriction when offline due to emp. Also, the only good way to take someone, non-lethally, down inside any hardsuit is using rubbers, because they all have a really big resistence against taser and stun batons.

 

I believe some of the other code-bases have removed it completely from the map, I know Polaris have.

 

Nope, they did not, Bay and Polaris still have them, and they even added species restrictions to it before we did.

[Ron]

The breacher suit has no modules, a massive slowdown that allows anyone to outrun someone inside, it is far less resistent than any hardsuit to emp, and a far bigger slowdown and vision restriction when offline due to emp. Also, the only good way to take someone, non-lethally, down inside any hardsuit is using rubbers, because they all have a really big resistence against taser and stun batons.

 

I believe some of the other code-bases have removed it completely from the map, I know Polaris have.

 

Nope, they did not, Bay and Polaris still have them, and they even added species restrictions to it before we did.

Slow-down can be reduced by toggling chestpiece and hyperzine, so not that big of an issue. Less EMP resistant is soo situational I don't consider it a playing factor. Vision reduction is annoying, but is it that big of a debuff that accounts for the absolutely insane protection values? All hardsuits have vision restriction when offline, though. Also, as a traitor, you can get modules for it. Or as a robotist. So I don't consider it not having modules a debuff either.

[nicemoreoften]

The breacher suit has no modules, a massive slowdown that allows anyone to outrun someone inside, it is far less resistent than any hardsuit to emp, and a far bigger slowdown and vision restriction when offline due to emp. Also, the only good way to take someone, non-lethally, down inside any hardsuit is using rubbers, because they all have a really big resistence against taser and stun batons.

 

I believe some of the other code-bases have removed it completely from the map, I know Polaris have.

 

Nope, they did not, Bay and Polaris still have them, and they even added species restrictions to it before we did.

Slow-down can be reduced by toggling chestpiece and hyperzine, so not that big of an issue. Less EMP resistant is soo situational I don't consider it a playing factor. Vision reduction is annoying, but is it that big of a debuff that accounts for the absolutely insane protection values? All hardsuits have vision restriction when offline, though. Also, as a traitor, you can get modules for it. Or as a robotist. So I don't consider it not having modules a debuff either.

In space, you go pretty much the same speed as some engie walking along the wall with magboots. The slowdown is also in effect, though less so, on the other suits, and vision is very situational given that the helm and visor can be toggled when not in space and in space you don't have the movespeed restriction and the EMP will have already disabled most energy weapons.

[Nanako]

Then I tried it on, before the update, and I was pretty much able to outrobust 2-3 sec who were using batons and tasers when I had no weapons, only the breacher and my fists.

 

You were wearing a military grade hardsuit and they used mallcop gear? I'm failing to see a problem

tell me when you beat three guys armed with laser carbines

[hivefleetchicken]

I literally see everyone who puts on the breacher just toggle the chest piece off and they can run at normal speeds while keeping the protection a click away.

Can we make it so the interface needs to be disabled before the chest piece can be toggled off?

[Alberyk]

I literally see everyone who puts on the breacher just toggle the chest piece off and they can run at normal speeds while keeping the protection a click away.

Can we make it so the interface needs to be disabled before the chest piece can be toggled off?

 

Same happens to all hardsuits, and to voidsuits in an extended, however, that won't do much at vented areas/under fire. And if such is ever added, could be extended to all hardsuits. Polaris also has the solution that wearing the module on your back or carrying it always applies the slowdown.

[Bokaza]

It's Unathi power armor, what do you expect. The thing's suppose to be a walking tank. Imo, as long as you can put it down reasonably fast with EMP there is no reason to nerf it further. I suggest a 270 degree arc of vision though, since that thing would limit how much you're able to turn your head.

Otherwise, putting this thing in a locked suit cycler, or Armoury where it belongs would help solve some issues.

[hivefleetchicken]

Agreed, having it on your back slot should trigger the slowdown, not the presence of the chest piece being active or not.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The entire point of the breacher suit (NT and unathi-brand versions) is that it's incredibly difficult to take it head on. The entire style and a e s t h e t i c of Unathi is that they focus on close combat and their breacher suit represents this. If you can get creative it's not that difficult to disable or kill a unathi in a suit. It's also balanced by the fact that there's only one of them. We do not need everything to be perfectly balanced. It encourages you to deal with the problem in a way that isn't running at it with a toolbox or stun baton.

EMP's are not a situational weapon that you can just dismiss off-hand. They are available in the armory for sec or in your uplink as antagonist. EMP'ing a unathi in a breacher will ruin his day and drain his weapons. He will then try to charge you to stab you with his spear or axe but you can just walk away at a brisk pace and be fine.

The admin-spawn version should be untouched how it is. Ideally each race gets a hardsuit that emphasizes their a e s t h e t i c and is very difficult to counter. It also emphasizes that the Unathi model is superior to the bootlegged version if it comes with less debuffs.

[Guest]

Causing it to slow you down after the entire chestpiece retracts into the RIG itself makes no sense.

Keep in mind RIG suits are fully inspired from Dead Space. If you retracted a piece of your RIG hardsuit, there'd be more room for flexibility and speed but you'd suffer the most from a lack of defense until toggling it on again.

I see no issue with the current state of the breacher suit. Take them out from a distance, they literally cannot see you past 4 tiles. And as mentioned, use ballistics.

CQCing an Unathi with a breacher on is one of the dumbest propositions I will ever hear of security getting into. You're gonna go head to head with someone in power armor? Seriously?

[Ron]

Then I tried it on, before the update, and I was pretty much able to outrobust 2-3 sec who were using batons and tasers when I had no weapons, only the breacher and my fists.

 

You were wearing a military grade hardsuit and they used mallcop gear? I'm failing to see a problem

tell me when you beat three guys armed with laser carbines

Why is there a military grade hardsuit in a non-security restricted area for any unthani with EVA access to get? or why one on a research station at all that only 10% of the workers can get to and use?

I'd be okay with it if it was in the security EVA zone, and, for all hardsuits, you don't get to neglect the speed slowdown with toggle-chestpiece.

[Nanako]

Why is there a military grade hardsuit in a non-security restricted area for any unthani with EVA access to get? ........I'd be okay with it if it was in the security EVA zone

You have my agreement on this. I'm in favour of moving it into the security subsection of EVA

[Alberyk]

Why is there a military grade hardsuit in a non-security restricted area for any unthani with EVA access to get? or why one on a research station at all that only 10% of the workers can get to and use?

 

Probably for the same reason that the mining rig is really well armored as well, nearly ert levels.

[Ron]

Why is there a military grade hardsuit in a non-security restricted area for any unthani with EVA access to get? or why one on a research station at all that only 10% of the workers can get to and use?

 

Probably for the same reason that the mining rig is really well armored as well, nearly ert levels.

And that reason is coders/mappers at some point in time overlooking their choices. I don't agree with the fact the mining rig has an RCD either, or mesons and not materiel scanners, or the high protection values.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The Unathi BReacher Suit moving into the sec part of EVA would make sense. Currently it's in the utility section, which means that it's heavily implied by its location that it's a general utility rig. Which, no, it isn't, it's a combat rig.

[nicemoreoften]

The entire point of the breacher suit (NT and unathi-brand versions) is that it's incredibly difficult to take it head on. The entire style and a e s t h e t i c of Unathi is that they focus on close combat and their breacher suit represents this. If you can get creative it's not that difficult to disable or kill a unathi in a suit. It's also balanced by the fact that there's only one of them. We do not need everything to be perfectly balanced. It encourages you to deal with the problem in a way that isn't running at it with a toolbox or stun baton.

EMP's are not a situational weapon that you can just dismiss off-hand. They are available in the armory for sec or in your uplink as antagonist. EMP'ing a unathi in a breacher will ruin his day and drain his weapons. He will then try to charge you to stab you with his spear or axe but you can just walk away at a brisk pace and be fine.

The admin-spawn version should be untouched how it is. Ideally each race gets a hardsuit that emphasizes their a e s t h e t i c and is very difficult to counter. It also emphasizes that the Unathi model is superior to the bootlegged version if it comes with less debuffs.

what hardsuits do the other races have? also, unathi is the only one with their hardsuit available to crew without adminbuse

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Well it'd be easy to add those once they're created and put in. Maybe in a specialty "specialist" section.

[Bedshaped]

I literally see everyone who puts on the breacher just toggle the chest piece off and they can run at normal speeds while keeping the protection a click away.

Can we make it so the interface needs to be disabled before the chest piece can be toggled off?

 

I think this is a great suggestion and would be the single-best thing to balance hardsuits.

Online: Toggle helmet.

Offline: Toggle helmet, chestpiece, gauntlets, boots.

[Guest Complete Garbage]

I literally see everyone who puts on the breacher just toggle the chest piece off and they can run at normal speeds while keeping the protection a click away.

Can we make it so the interface needs to be disabled before the chest piece can be toggled off?

 

I think this is a great suggestion and would be the single-best thing to balance hardsuits.

Online: Toggle helmet.

Offline: Toggle helmet, chestpiece, gauntlets, boots.

 

Allow gauntlets and boots to be toggled too, or at the very least, gauntlets. They're not even required for a full seal, game-logic-wise, and as an RD wearing the AMI, sometimes it's necessary to wear gloves other than the AMI's gauntlets.

[Bedshaped]

Is there a situation where you need your AMI activated and can't use the AMI gloves?

Can't you just make AMI gloves have identical characteristics to latex gloves?

[Guest Complete Garbage]

Is there a situation where you need your AMI activated and can't use the AMI gloves?

Can't you just make AMI gloves have identical characteristics to latex gloves?

 

It's situational, but I'm 90% sure the AMI gauntlets aren't insulated, and I've been in a couple situations(especially involving malf) where I've had to wear insulated gloves as an RD. Luckily, the same problem doesn't face the CE, because the Advanced RIG doesn't have prebuilt boots or gauntlets.