Job Suspension+

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Job suspensions are another form of demotion where it's implied you're suspended from NT entirely. This is an action that comes after even a demotion, as you are lower than an assistant. Your pay is usually suspended as well, basically rendering you in a limbo where you're a visitor on the station. In normal circumstances this tends to be incredibly naughty characters who won't learn after all the other punishments Command or sec throws at them.

However, the biggest crutch in suspensions is that they only impact the one round. Immediately after a round where I am suspended I can rejoin as the same job and run smug circles around any Heads that previously demoted me. Eventually this behavior is punished, but there is no immediate stopgap to discourage this behavior or to even reinforce the fact that suspensions are a big deal.

With Job Suspension+ we create a system that psychologically reinforces the fact that bad behavior carries a punishment.

What are the basics?

In this system, the Job Suspension option in access computers would carry over for that roundin addition to the immediate round after that. When the round resets, the player would find that their suspended character is unable to join in their previous role. If they were suspended from Medical Doctor, they would see [sUSPENDED] on that slot and be unable to toggle it. They could play the role as any other character.

Who has such power?

Because of the inherent power this gives the wielder, this ability is curtailed. The access computer will not allow the suspension to be carried out by any Command ID's nor even the Spare ID: only a spawned in Captain has this ability. For special circumstances, CCIA ID's can also work, as can Bluespace Tech ID's.

What is the process?

When hitting the suspension button the Captain gets the following pop-up message,

"This action will suspend this person from this job for this shift and the following shift. This is not a demotion and should not be done lightly. By carrying out this action you understand the severity of this decision. It is recommended that you ask staff if you're justified if you don't feel 100% confident! Do you want to proceed?"

If they hit "No" then the suspension is not inputted and they can try again or do something else. If they hit "yes" then the ID is suspended and that character is unable to play in whatever job the ID had for the character. (This may lead to someone you had already demoted to assistant being 'suspended from assistant' but we can train this out of Captains with informative brochures)

IF the character is an antag, the server checks this when the shuttle docks on the Odin and revokes this.

If the character is NOT an antag then the suspension sticks. When the round resets that character will be unable to join as the job they were suspended from until the server resets again. This effectively jobbans a specific character for 2 - 4 hours after a round. There are no additional automatic punishments for repeated suspensions, you just keep getting Suspension+ until staff or CCIA formally kick your ass.

DEAR GOD, WHY???

1) This is a proactive approach to punish bad behavior by non-antags. Rather than be forced to write an IR or ahelp and wait for the rather long CCIA process that player gets an immediate kick to the head with "Oh, I'm being punished still."

2) Suspension+ is a possible step before Incident Reports and a step below total Job Bans. If you know the Captain has suspended someone for a whole shift then presumably most players can be satisfied that adequate action was taken.

3) The duration of the punishment is VERY short. The player doesn't need to play a round in another job before it's lifted; they could not log on and play the next round at all and the suspension will still be lifted immediately after this next round. The player can also simply join the same job as another character without it being considered suspension evading.*

*(If you get into a bad habit of evading suspensions then it becomes an admin issue.)

What if something goes wrong?

This authority is only granted to Captains, so its usage should be moderate to rare.

The punishment itself is rather light in comparison to the alternatives.

Even if you feel it was an unjust suspension the most you get is a few hours of a break from the server at worst, assuming you can't convince any admins or mods to revoke the suspension in the following round, and assuming you play literally no other characters in no other job.

Abusing the suspension feature would see the whitelist of the captain revoked unceremoniously. I don't think I've ever seen Tishina show mercy. Expecting mercy from Tish is expecting the mere flutter of the wings of a butterfly to knock down a mountain. So between the "ARE YOU SURE?" option and the fact they'll lose their whitelist Captain's will use this ability very carefully.

[Guest]

I support this, I even have a form I use as Captain that goes over the basics of being suspended that I've used for the last few months as Captain and HoP:

 

[TrickingTrapster]

I can see this work. Whitelisted players should already know to be responsible players, or they would not have been accepted in the first place. Plus, this gives players the option to punish all the non-ahelped bullshit. I support this.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I can see this work. Whitelisted players should already know to be responsible players, or they would not have been accepted in the first place. Plus, this gives players the option to punish all the non-ahelped bullshit. I support this.

 

Originally I thought it would be best if HoP's also had this ability as long as they used captain's clearance, but that would just make things a little confusing and open up the pool of possible abuses, mistakes, or general headaches. I do see the merit in locking it to Captain/CCIA. If this system is implemented and runs without a hitch we could discuss expanding it to HoPs in the far future, but I think we should have it dedicated solely to Captains and see how the feature manages as such.

[TrickingTrapster]

Yes, but all head whitelisted players are able to play captain, so those players do have the option to use it. That's what I meant with "players".

[Nanako]

Because of the inherent power this gives the wielder, this ability is curtailed. The access computer will not allow the suspension to be carried out by any Command ID's nor even the Spare ID: only a spawned in Captain has this ability. For special circumstances, CCIA ID's can also work, as can Bluespace Tech ID's.

 

This is really not that much power.

It should suspend the character from the whole DEPARTMENT, not just a single role, and heads of staff should be able to do it for theirs.

Tracking down the captain to help with suspension is rarely worth the effort. I'd say instead, make it a requirement to notify the captain, if there is one, and give him power of veto

[UnknownMurder]

Just got here by Jackboot. I'm surprised why this isn't a thing.

If the admin or CCIA Leader would give a Go-Ahead sign to us regarding this. I can whip up the paperwork procedure on how to use the suspension paper along with CCIA Team.

[Synnono]

This seems well-reasoned, and punitive without going too far. If we can implement this, I'd be for it.

[Guest]

@Nanako, Department Managers IRL in a lot of businesses cannot actually suspend you, any and all punitive process besides reprimand and job duties really goes through a higher manager. We also have this, as all ID changes go through the Captain.

personally as Captain I do not allow Heads to suspend personnel until I've reviewed the case.

[Serveris]

Have to say, I'm not entirely sure about this. It sounds like a promising idea, and in practice, I could see it working out quite well. My major and really only issue with this being, as Trick pointed out, the people having access to it. What we have here, as it was proposed, is effectively a full-stop jobban that whitelisted players can drop on other players. As anyone that's spoken to me at length can confirm, I really, really don't trust most whitelisted players these days with things as trivial as command slots. Honestly, as an administrator, I've had to jump on command staff so much the past couple months I'm really not sure if I can sign off on giving them something like this. Contrary to what Nanako stated, this is indeed a rather powerful thing that should be used extremely sparingly, and only for special case scenarios. I can honestly say I don't trust command whitelisted players as a whole having access to something like this with things as they are right now. I'd prefer it remain in the hands of CCIA. That being said, adding this in as a feature for their use would be wonderful. If station command staff want someone continuously suspended, all they have to do is fax, and an administrator or CCIA can apply it then and there, simple as.

[Jboy2000000]

Giving this to just the CCIA would make it completely useless. We already have the power to do this, suspend people, but for days at a time. Not only that, but this is a VERY temporary suspension, that can be used in situations when admins can't/won't handle it to what people see as satisfactory, as some people don't trust as the staff just as much as your distrust whitelisted players, and in situations where involving the CCIA would either not be warranted, or could be warranted, but would take far too long to handle, which itself is not satisfactory. Reading Boot's post, this suspends someone from a roll for what? A maximum of 5 hours, if a round even runs that long? At the minimum, it lasts an hour and a half. This isn't a big deal to give to captains. I don't even see the need to limit it to captains, but that's just me.

The only negative thing I have to say, is that I don't see it mentioned anywhere as part of the suggestion to have these suspensions+ marked down for CCIA cross reference, which would be very useful.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

What Jboy said.

CCIA is a powerful weapon, but it's slow to muster. The behavior that leads to a suspension is best when it's nipped in the bud immediately and via on-station Command. It won't improve my round or their behavior to wait several days for CCIA to come and interview us.

As well, this is something in which only captain's would have access. There is very little incentive to abuse the system because the punishment for the suspended is so short (a single round) yet the punishment for the condom is severe (whitelist strip).

It would also be extremely easy to spot. A Captain brazenly suspending someone suddenly would be challenged and resolved IC or OOC by admins. A suspension, as I see them, almost always comes on the heels of the supervising head of staff asking for it and the HoP/Captain agreeing, and usually for in situations where they're being super doodoo brains. So immediately you have a minimum of 2 heads of staff wanting the person suspended.

The pool of people that would abuse this system is very small. Given that every system carries drawbacks and potential abuses I think the small scale of possible abuse in this system is small enough to be acceptable, especially when you keep in mind the shortness of the punishment. It's not really worth it to go "I'll show you! Suspended next shift too! hahahaha fuckboy!" and lose your whitelist.

1)

Problem:

The Captain goes over the supervising employees Head to suspend their staff.

Solution:

That Head (or employee/IAA) writes a fax or ahelps.

2)

Problem:

The Head wants to suspend someone but the Captain doesn't agree with it.

Solution:

The Captain doesn't do the suspension, and the Head cries.

3)

Problem:

The HoP disagrees with a suspension of the employee of an unrelated department.

Solution:

The captain and supervising head of staff hopefully listen to his advice but the Captain decides whether to go through with it or not, see above scenarios.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Marlon Phoenix

[incognitojesus]

I'd support this. I've done suspensions as a head of staff and tried to make them actually mean something to CCIA but was told I needed to file an IR which is a laborious process and a long one, too. This simplifies that, and should cut down on shitters. 10/10.

[Chaznoodles]

Have to say, I'm not entirely sure about this. It sounds like a promising idea, and in practice, I could see it working out quite well. My major and really only issue with this being, as Trick pointed out, the people having access to it. What we have here, as it was proposed, is effectively a full-stop jobban that whitelisted players can drop on other players. As anyone that's spoken to me at length can confirm, I really, really don't trust most whitelisted players these days with things as trivial as command slots. Honestly, as an administrator, I've had to jump on command staff so much the past couple months I'm really not sure if I can sign off on giving them something like this. Contrary to what Nanako stated, this is indeed a rather powerful thing that should be used extremely sparingly, and only for special case scenarios. I can honestly say I don't trust command whitelisted players as a whole having access to something like this with things as they are right now. I'd prefer it remain in the hands of CCIA. That being said, adding this in as a feature for their use would be wonderful. If station command staff want someone continuously suspended, all they have to do is fax, and an administrator or CCIA can apply it then and there, simple as.

 

This.

[SierraKomodo]

I'm just going to come right up and say No. Fuck no. There are several people who while I'm fine with them having a command whitelist, there is no way in hell I would ever trust giving them this level of power. Additionally, why would you be punishing a player for the /next/ round for events that occurred in the previous round - Particularly when things may have been antag related. If you're going to give the argument of consistent trouble makers, there's a sub forum for character complaints where you can bring that issue up to admins to be dealt with, a sub forum for incident reports to deal with it ICly, or you can even send in an ahelp/in round fax about them.

[Guest]

DOs are not always able to deal with characters in an efficient fashion. Actually getting someone fired will take a week of DO work to get anything done due to the nature of scheduling. People screech and scream when the CCIA try to take harsher steps than the norm on a case-by-case basis.

And re: it's gonna be abused...

Only the captain can utilize this function.

Someone overusing it to fuck over people will be hastily swiped of their whitelist due to the policy regarding whitelisting.

[UnknownMurder]

C.C.I.A. has the authority to overturn the suspension and it will become mandatory for them to inform the C.C.I.A. of the actions being taken.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I'm just going to come right up and say No. Fuck no. There are several people who while I'm fine with them having a command whitelist, there is no way in hell I would ever trust giving them this level of power. Additionally, why would you be punishing a player for the /next/ round for events that occurred in the previous round - Particularly when things may have been antag related. If you're going to give the argument of consistent trouble makers, there's a sub forum for character complaints where you can bring that issue up to admins to be dealt with, a sub forum for incident reports to deal with it ICly, or you can even send in an ahelp/in round fax about them.

 

I already addressed this.

If the antagonist is suspended their suspension is automatically overturned at round-end by the server itself.

• If you are a non-antag and act in such a way that you are suspended then your behavior should still be punished in the round after as, again, the psychological kick in the head that there are consequences.

 

The punishment is too short and the repercussions to the Captain make it not worth it to abuse the system. It's literally so easy to get it undone if you were suspended unfairly, in the bizarre and few cases where this happens.

It carries over because of the fact a very basic foundation of our entire roleplaying server is consistency between rounds except with antagonist activities.

It is not every Command player, it is every Captain. Not every Command player plays Captain.

[SierraKomodo]

It is not every Command player, it is every Captain. Not every Command player plays Captain.

 

But every command player has the ability to create a captain on a whim. I've seen whitelisted players join as a one-off captain character on mutiny and rev rounds and spend the whole round being complete and utter idiots. I don't trust those people with the ability to provide extended punishments outside of the current round.

[UnknownMurder]

I don't think Acting Captains counts... Do they, Jack?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

As I said in the OP Captain's do not count unless they were spawned in and have an original captain level ID.

[Owen]

I am really iffy about this. I don't think I trust whitelists enough to give them lasting effect on characters. The only way I would be alright with this is if the CCIA Bureau constantly monitors any suspensions that go through. Also, there should definitely be paperwork of the Suspension and the reasoning for why you chose more than one shift documented somewhere. That is important. Also, there should be ways in place for someone to combat the actions of the Captain, whether it is just them posting an Incident Report about the Captain misusing his authority or privately messaging a member of the CCIA to review the case. I'm not really in the position anymore to immediately decide how the CCIA would handle this but it is a must about being heavily monitored.

Also, if people get too out of hand with it, instead of just punishing the Captian, I would even say that the OOC Administration gets involved. Especially since Head whitelists are "Easy to lose, easy to get"

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The suspension realistically lasts for 2 - 4 hours. It is a single round following the round they were suspended. If we have to document it or have CCIA review each one then the entire purpose of this mechanic, to delegate a small bit of punishment power to the station itself, is pointless.

[Serveris]

A new system to eliminate the watchdogs' workload is entirely useless when the system itself must also be watched. This is just going to lead to more strain on administration for a minimal return.

No. Keep the established power where it belongs, with the people whom are intended to have this power.

CCIA follows a set protocol that requires set approval before they're even able to issue this punishment. If that's indeed the issue, then I can work with the current CCIA leader and make adjustments to it as necessary.

Bottom line, I trust the people that have this power presently, because they are vetted much more thoroughly when they're selected, and I know I can trust them to get their facts lined up into a case to defend their actions. I can't say the same of command staff players as a whole when most of them can't even be assed to submit IRs or even keep CCIA in the loop on the disciplinary actions they can already execute.

[Guest]

But every command player has the ability to create a captain on a whim. I've seen whitelisted players join as a one-off captain character on mutiny and rev rounds and spend the whole round being complete and utter idiots. I don't trust those people with the ability to provide extended punishments outside of the current round.

 

Literally anyone can make that allegory. Everyone has had a bad experience but it does not automatically count as a valid argument.