Clarifying the Captain's Title

[Owen]

Alright so, this has been suggested multiple times in the past but has gotten shot down. The thing that would make sense to add would be the role of Station Administrator/Overseer. This would be an alternate title for the Captain position since I know there is a lot of love based around that name. The title of Captain isn't very fitting within NanoTrasen considering there is already a position of Captain in ERT and it is higher than the NSS Exodus' Captain. That would cause unnecessary confusion inside of NanoTrasen to name two different jobs, Captain. Plus, the Captain is really an administrative role on the station, it would feel proper to have that as an option instead of purely being Captain. Thoughts?

[Guest]

I've been FOR this FOREVER. Please do. It would be super quick and easy to accomplish.

[Guest Complete Garbage]

I think it doesn't really matter what it's called. Afaik, the 'ERT Captain' is just the Captain of the Odin. Sure, this would add another little unique thing, but it may also confuse new players so... I'm neutral, I guess.

[Owen]

I think it doesn't really matter what it's called. Afaik, the 'ERT Captain' is just the Captain of the Odin. Sure, this would add another little unique thing, but it may also confuse new players so... I'm neutral, I guess.

 

The ERT's Captain is not the Captain of the NTCC Odin. That would also be changed to the NTCC Odin's Station Administrator. An ERT Captain is a completely separate rank within the ERT. Also, what is confusing about "Station Administrator" and how would it confuse players? It is literally the administrator of the station. Pretty simple.

[Skull132]

Any naval officer who commands a ship is addressed by naval custom as "captain" while aboard in command, regardless of their actual rank, even though technically an officer of below the rank of captain is more correctly titled the commanding officer, or C.O. Officers with the rank of captain travelling aboard a vessel they do not command should be addressed by their rank and name (e.g., "Captain Smith"), but they should not be referred to as "the captain" to avoid confusion with the vessel's captain.

 

"The captain" vs "Captain Sir Soldier Dude".

As for the administrator title. The authority he has over the station is left unclear by the title. A fitting alternative would the Commanding Officer, or something of that nature. "An administrator" or "overseer" can mean more things than CO.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

How many people are confused by the Captain having a captain title? It's so engrained into SS13 that having an alternate title would be as confusing as you presumably believe "captain" to be. There is an inherent sense of loyalty when you think of it as Captain. "I am loyal to the Captain!" has a better ring to it than "I am loyal to my station administrator!"

In regards to your specific confusion you are projecting onto others,

https://aurorastation.org/wiki/images/3/3b/NT%21%21_Navy_-_Copy.png

The ERT Captain is specifically mentioned as being the Captain of whatever vessel they are stationed on. If the Aurora had an ERT as a job role on the station then the Captain would have authority in deploying them to either independently accomplish objectives laid out by his superiors or in response to orders from his superiors. The Captain is a 'rubber stamp' - if the Sector Commander wants ERT deployed you just go "OK" to the fax and tell the ERT Commander to get off his supple, well toned ass. If you think of Security as ERT, then when Central Command sends faxes demanding security do X, it's up to the Captain to order the HoS to have Sec do X, then the HoS handles the specifics in fulfilling X until sufficient harm baton has been achieved.

If the vessel the ERT squad is stationed on has no Captain then it defaults to whoever else is in charge of that vessel, but most vessels that small/unique don't have attached ERT squads. Typically every NT installation in space has a Captain unless the place is so small that it can operate without strict SoP, like an exploration ship of 5 guys and their badger mascot.

I don't know when you changed it but the Odin is supposed to have a Captain. The Odin Captain would be responsible for telling the Commander to get off his ass and get his squads to the Aurora, then spend the rest of the crisis on Skype with the Sector Commander telling him the business.

A Station Administrator would have no authority over an ERT in our ERT hierarchy, because ERT are snowflakes and separate from the regular corporate hierarchy until you hit the Chief Naval Director.

https://aurorastation.org/wiki/images/0/04/NT%21%21_-_Copy.png

Names are important and we need to bear in mind the inherent implications of a name. NanoTrasen doesn't run supermarkets where we could get away with Administrator being the ultimate on-site authority, they're stations with private security forces with the ability to summon/deploy contracted mercenaries. Once you get command of guys with guns you really should have a title that reflects this in overt/subtle ways.

I have no idea how CCIA have changed the Odin's on-station administration anymore and it seems they're trying to have the Odin follow the suggestion before it's even implemented, so I'm just going by my charts until I receive helpful or snide PM's correcting me. It still has Duty Officers running the sector with CCIA as its investigative wing, who all report to the Chief Legal Director back at NTHQ. Meanwhile, the Odin Captain manages the Odin itself and its staff.

And in my personal opinion it's an extremely lame title. It removes all the pride and prestige from the role and takes the wind out of the sails of mutiny and rp-rev in terms of romanticizing them. "We must overthrow the Captain" is more compelling than "We must overthrow the station administrator"

[Guest Complete Garbage]

Oh, I meant to reply earlier, but Jackboot basically said everything I wanted to and more.

Thanks for clarifying the whole ERT Captain thing, btw.

[Zundy]

If we want to get serious then the title should be something like "Installation Manager" or if you have a hard on for the ol' navy titles "Commander" works. "Station Operations Manager" would also make more sense. We've got to remember that the station has more in common with an oil rig then a battleship/cruise liner.

[Guest Menown]

Shift Manager would probably be the best, considering there is no 'Captain', there's several captains over the course of many shifts, so whichever one is assigned to the shift is the 'Shift Manager'.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I reread my post and realized I may have sound a little snide, which isn't my intention. Sorry if I seemed so!

[Zundy]

Shift Manager would probably be the best, considering there is no 'Captain', there's several captains over the course of many shifts, so whichever one is assigned to the shift is the 'Shift Manager'.

 

Yeah that works. I guess it sounds lack lustre though but hey, they are the shift manager.

 

I reread my post and realized I may have sound a little snide, which isn't my intention. Sorry if I seemed so!

 

Business as usual for you keks. I kid, you're cool.L-love you.

[VileFault]

In my personal opinion, Installation Manager sounds pretty cool. I guess the word "installation" makes me thing of towering artillery banks, or well-trained soldiers marching in unison or something. Obviously the Exodus/Aurora doesn't have that, but my point is that it sounds respectably badass in a disciplined, military way. Commander also sorta evokes that impression for me. In all honesty, I tend to associate a Captain more with rickety wooden warships, or guys with beards running around in those dorky modern navy hats (http://ep.yimg.com/ay/hatstore/captain-s-hat-10.jpg). And if it is more accurate too, all the better really. No point creating pointless and confusing differences between reality and the world of spessmen.

At the end of the day, though, a longer name would be sure to receive the same abbreviated treatment as all the Heads of Staff. Just as the Chief Medical Officer becomes the CMO, the Installation Manager will eventually become the IM. Commander, though, would be said in full, and might end up sounding more authoritative. So that is something to think about too.

Calling the station an "installation" might make it seem slicker and more disciplined, too, which could be good. Thar be me two shekels.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Shift Manager would probably be the best, considering there is no 'Captain', there's several captains over the course of many shifts, so whichever one is assigned to the shift is the 'Shift Manager'.

Shift managers are glorified babysitters. There is zero respect for shift managers. I for one cannot see any of my characters summoning a single shit to care about a "Shift Manager" or taking them seriously.

However...

 

In my personal opinion, Installation Manager sounds pretty cool.

 

 

I'm still really not feeling it, if mostly out of tradition.

The Head of Security is also popularly called Commander, which would ironically lead to more confusion.

[ChevalierMalFet]

Methinks this got started by a conversation I was part of on the ACN Discord, so I'll add the same two cents here as I added there: the station is a ship and ships have to have captains. This is not a military thing specifically; cargo ships and cruise ships have captains, too, and it's not just to look cool. Oil rigs also have captains, because their business is fundamentally the same - they are isolated places outside the immediate reach of civil interference, meaning that the Captain has to have a higher level of control over the facility than would the manager of an office tower.

The Exodus, like the Aurora before it, has a brig - a jail. The station doesn't have a jail solely to hold captured borders or invaders, though that's certainly a part of it. The brig is also there to serve as an instrument of punishment for the crew, and that's the key difference. If NT built a laboratory in the middle of downtown Mendell, then there'd be no brig. There would be a security department, and that security department might well have real guns, but there'd be no 'punishment room' - punishments would be resolved administratively, by docking their pay or by suspending them or by firing them outright, or if it was a real legal issue, then the police would get involved. The Captain of a ship, or an oil rig, or a space station, cannot simply call for police, or call for help, or pass the buck away from himself - though Lord knows people try, what with the fax machines and all. The Captain is the ultimate authority on the station because there needs to be one; the remoteness, the inaccessibility, and the danger of space means that the Captain needs the power to, well, use the threat of force to compel people to do what he wants.

I am strongly in favor of keeping the Captain as the Captain, because the closer the station comes to being an office block that happens to be floating in space, the more the texture starts to disintegrate.

[Zundy]

The station is a ship eh fam?

I'll think you'll find the station is a space station chief. It has a brig in the same way it has a captain, because of retardation.

Snide comments aside, oil rigs don't have captain's. They have Installation Managers though.

[ChevalierMalFet]

The station is a ship eh fam?

I'll think you'll find the station is a space station chief. It has a brig in the same way it has a captain, because of retardation.

Snide comments aside, oil rigs don't have captain's. They have Installation Managers though.

 

The station is indeed a ship in every dramatic sense that matters; it just happens to be stationary. As for oil rigs, I got 538,000 hits for 'oil rig captain' and 409,000 for 'oil rig manager.'

[Guest Menown]

Shift Manager would probably be the best, considering there is no 'Captain', there's several captains over the course of many shifts, so whichever one is assigned to the shift is the 'Shift Manager'.

Shift managers are glorified babysitters. There is zero respect for shift managers. I for one cannot see any of my characters summoning a single shit to care about a "Shift Manager" or taking them seriously.

 

This implies that anybody has any respect for most captains anyway. It's nothing to see random members of the crew insult them. A captain is a glorified babysitter. There to make sure every department is handling everything as they should that shift.

[UnknownMurder]

Star Trek has a Captain. The name is Captain James Tibernus Kirk.

[Zundy]

The station is a ship eh fam?

I'll think you'll find the station is a space station chief. It has a brig in the same way it has a captain, because of retardation.

Snide comments aside, oil rigs don't have captain's. They have Installation Managers though.

 

The station is indeed a ship in every dramatic sense that matters; it just happens to be stationary. As for oil rigs, I got 538,000 hits for 'oil rig captain' and 409,000 for 'oil rig manager.'

 

And what do those hits say? Show me the captain of an oil rig job (those hits will refer to oil tankers, not rigs). The station is a station not a ship, otherwise it'd be a ship. It doesn't function as a ship does at all and no, calling the jail the brig and the power supply the engine doesn't make it a ship, it just make usage of those words wrong. The station has no means of locomotion and is meant to be a stationary mass. God help us when the new map comes out as the station will then be on land.

[Guest Complete Garbage]

The station is a ship eh fam?

I'll think you'll find the station is a space station chief. It has a brig in the same way it has a captain, because of retardation.

Snide comments aside, oil rigs don't have captain's. They have Installation Managers though.

 

The station is indeed a ship in every dramatic sense that matters; it just happens to be stationary. As for oil rigs, I got 538,000 hits for 'oil rig captain' and 409,000 for 'oil rig manager.'

 

And what do those hits say? Show me the captain of an oil rig job (those hits will refer to oil tankers, not rigs). The station is a station not a ship, otherwise it'd be a ship. It doesn't function as a ship does at all and no, calling the jail the brig and the power supply the engine doesn't make it a ship, it just make usage of those words wrong. The station has no means of locomotion and is meant to be a stationary mass. God help us when the new map comes out as the station will then be on land.

 

So we're resorting to being the fucking language police? Everyone knows what you mean when you say 'brig,' and if you say 'jail,' you get pointed to and laughed at. If everyone knows what you mean when you use a certain word, it shouldn't be problematic. Nobody gets confused when you call the supermatter the 'engine.' Granted, generator would work just as well, but there's no real reason to change it. The original suggestion was to change the title of the Captain, which I also see absolutely no problem with.

[VileFault]

Ok. I did a few minutes of searching to get a handle on what oil rig [leaders] are called IRL. The short answer is that "Offshore Installation Manger" appears to be the most technical term, and appears in documents like this (http://petrowiki.org/images/d/de/Devol2_1102final_Page_634_Image_0001.png). Some people in the industry, however, seem to colloquially refer to the job as Captain, as well. That usage can been seen in this sleazy book advertisement (http://www.themaritimesite.com/how-to-get-a-job-on-an-offshore-oil-rig/). It is worth noting that many of the results for 'oil rig captain' actually discuss the captains of the tankers that support oil rigs, as seen here (http://www.jobmonkey.com/maritimejobs/offshore_marine/). While these gigantic vessels are awesome in their own right, they bear little in common in form or function with our beloved station.

Bottom line is that the number of google results isn't really a great way to tell which is more proper here. Our station is also very much like an oil rig insofar as it is a self-sustaining platform separated from civilization by a vast and inhospitable expanse that lacks its own propulsion and is geared towards resource extraction. Regardless, I would point out that we can call it whatever we damn well please. After all, this is only similar to an oil rig, not identical. We are ~400 years and ~3 parsecs from the nearest oil rig, so we have no real obligation to follow modern norms. We could call the Captain an Archduke if we wanted. I just think "Installation Manager" sounds nice.

EDIT: I just read what Zundy wrote and I have to agree that having a "Captain" of a facility that is essentially a stationary mine and immobile R&D facility is about as silly as calling someone the "Captain" of an office, just cause they can order people around in it. That said, my point about this being totally subjective and based on our perceptions of different words still stands.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Guest

[Zundy]

Hey I'm not saying we should use the words jail or whatever. I'm saying:

The Space Station isn't a ship and just using nautical terms whilst on it doesn't make it one.

Soon it's not even going to be a Space Station but an asteroid based Research Facility.

Technically the station is a 'spacecraft' but that's a moot point because they don't have captains, they have commanders. Land based Research Facilities definitely don't have Captains. Having an actual corporate title makes more sense. I don't mind either way to be honest chappie.

[Nikov]

The station is a tin can orbiting a planet in excess of eight kilometers a second, capable of correcting its orbital course to maintain plane and altitude. It is travelling faster and operates more independantly than any maritime vessel ever could. The station is not "fixed to the sea bed", as some oil rigs are. It is a free floating vessel and as much a ship as any barracks barge in the old Royal Navy. There is no sociological consideration to take as to if the station changes orbits or stays on its course; it is still a small, closed society that depends on a direct chain of command to maintain good order. I consider the ship/station distinction to be entirely pedantic, particularly since numerous navies on Earth consider buildings, islands or other arbitrary things "ships" for the reason of applying honors, legal privileges or appointing captains to them.

May I remind you all of i303, Mutiny? Not a crime in the civilian world... save aboard a ship. Or aboard a vessel.

If you want the optional title Station Administrator, fine. I don't know many building managers who can imprison people on a whim for mutiny, though.

[Zundy]

To be fair it's 400 years in the future IG so we're all sausages for arguing semantics/technicalities and for a guy who 'doesn't care', I sure put a lot of time and effort looking into this.

It's opinions at the end of the day and like an ice cream at the end of a three course meal, as long as it's tasty I don't really mind the flavour (I'd prefer vanilla/corp title tho fam).

[Guest]

I don't see why we can't just have an alt-title.

People will get confused? Correct them, it takes two seconds.

And @Nikov, brig punishments exist as an alternative to firing someone.

At my walmart, we have a corporate bylaw that governs 'insubordination' , aka refusing your Managers orders or trying to subvert their command. Punishment for this can include IMMEDIATE termination. So be happy we have brig punishments and not immediate termination of disloyal employees.

The title does NOT determine loyalty. If this were true, then characters like rando engineers wouldn't amass an army of bitching tajarans and electricians whenever they got arrested. Loyalty is dependent on relationships created by playing, not role. Respect is earned, not given.