Nikov - Ban

[Nikov]

BYOND Key: Nikov

Total Ban Length: 7 Days

Banning staff member's Key: DatBerry

Reason of Ban: rushing into a vented bridge with no EVA gear, using inflatable walls to seal yourself and fix the breach without any EVA gear, ignoring pain and not avoiding it, quite the long list of notes and many attempts to mislead me don't really help your case.

Reason for Appeal:

To start with, when a moderator sees the full scenario, and the player sees half of the scenario, the player should not be assumed to be lying when they only describe half of the scenario.

Manfred, Atmos Tech, was standing just inside the medbay lobby when there was an explosion and a report that Ashley Dawnguard had severe brute damage on the bridge and there was a breach.

I put on my internals mask and went to the bridge door.

A person in a medical hardsuit was being delayed by the firelocks that were dropped. Knowing paramedics do not have firelock access, I attempted to get the presumed paramedic inside, knowing time was of the essence to save Ashley Dawnguard. A cyborg was coming out of that door, however, so I was forced to go around to the north windows.

There I went into the bridge via firelocks, looking for the injured woman. I had no sooner climbed over a table then I started taking pressure damage. The firelock closed behind me. Rather than vent the central ring to space through the firelocks trying to rush out, I turned the air alarm to filter and set up an inflatable barrier over a vent. This protected me from additional pain and taking damage. I then treated my injuries with a trauma kit and waited for the breach to be sealed and pressure to begin rising, rather than try to walk through a depressurized room again.

With lives apparently secured, I made no further attempts at heroics, remaining in pressure behind the inflatables. Pipes were damaged and the room was filling slowly. Once pressure was to tolerable levels, I went back to the firelocks I had come through and opened them. This let air into the bridge from the central ring, which did not dip into caution levels. Instead the air alarms were cleared on the bridge by tapping into the other space.

I was then standing in 101 kpa air and put on my masks and insulated gloves to repair the damage. I went to the Captain's office when I saw him and asked if I could use his shower to get the blood off. This was denied, so I left to the crew washroom.

I was washing my jumpsuit of the blood when I was bwoinked by DatBerry. I do not have logs on hand so I will leave it to Datberry to provide logs.

Manfred is selfless and known to be such. He is not selfless as a matter of blind heroism, but out of a deeply-rooted character flaw. He is seeing Curel Wald in-character to discuss his self-destructive behaviors. This specific instance would be discussed with Wald, were I not banned for the next seven days.

I feel that DatBerry is not taking character motiviations or flawed perceptions into account in issuing this ban. He has referred to previous notes, and expressed surprised I haven't been banned earlier.

A review of my notes by Nanako with my permission reveals the last time "depressurization pain" came up was 2015, and I have since made Hayden's self-sacrificial stupidity a major theme with several characters.

I appeal this ban on the basis of the problem being in-character, part of the character's major flaw, the basis of ongoing voluntary psychiatric therapy, and not from powergaming or ignoring pain mechanics.

Manfred expressed his motivations at great length to Kathleen Bullard a few evenings ago, in which he detailed that his only family is the crew. And so self-sacrifice, and what is called "common valor", is being misjudged by DatBerry as powergaming.

In all sincerity, I thought roleplaying a character for a year would get some degree of trust that I would play that character consistently. This was a serious round and Manfred made serious decisions, expecting to haul a dying woman from a breach or die trying. She was instead teleported off the bridge by a Captain who was conveniently hanging around with a hand tele in a full spacesuit in a pressurized room off station.

But Manfred saw Ashley alive at departures, so if this is how he dies trying, at least you know my side of it now.

[Taintedglory]

I will confirm that there were two dying people on the Bridge at this time and Manfred was doing everything he could to get these dying people off the bridge, and once they were confirmed off I lost sight of him and what he was doing. Im going to assume he would do what I would do, and instead of taking precious time away from the lives of the two people dying on the bridge, he decided to put his own life first to save them.

Fortunately for those people and unfortunately for him, his sacrifice was in vein because I accidentally showed up and saved the two dying people before he fully cycled in

[DatBerry]

I actually dont have the logs nor can i pull them as a modlet, but ill ask an admin to do so.

This incident started when the CE ahelped about foul RP, it was oreki played by UM, he said manfred ignored pain rp And rushed into a vented area, depressurizing hallways. I didnt understand a word at first, but later got a more clear story and decided to ask you for your reasoning, while you replied i went to also ask the CMO, who was the paramedic you talked about earlier.

you said you wanted to help the paramedic as they didnt have EVA gear and that they should be bwoinked too, but it was the CMO, who was in EVA gear, the CMO confirmed more parts of the story, you had mentioned in PMs that you instantly went back to pressurized space, which is false according to both the CMO, the CE and your post right now, you yourself said you waited for the vents, both said there were no more injured people on the bridge, and so you did in the appeal, yet imstead of leaving the under pressurized area you vented the hallway to fill in your inflatable room to continue repairs without proper gear there weren't any lives at stake, you continued to fix the breach somehow on your own, receiving heavy damage in the process according to the CMO, who mentioned he tried to make you leave the area a few times actually.

Then the AI the round played by tablespoon confirmed you vented the hallway multiple times, so did the CMO and the CE.

You could've left as soon as you saw the captain take the injured officer to safety, but you didnt care about that, expressing the same kind of actions you did last year.

Notes become less relevant after a while, true enough, but not when its the exact same thing.

The fact that someone was actually on the bridge when you broke in at the time wasn't known to me, as all three witnesses didnt mention anything about it.

But the main problem still stands, dont hang out in dangerous places without proper gear.

Its 4:44am and i should be asleep so please dont mind any typos or whatever i may have made.

[Nikov]

I recall reading absolutely nothing from Oreki. My only memory of interaction with Oreki is him insulting my character several rounds ago.

I did not carelessly depressurize hallways. Oreki is wrong. I opened firelocks and used inflatables to cycle in carefully.

I did not ignore pain RP. Oreki is wrong. As soon as the motivation to work through pain was gone, I proceeded to put myself under pressure using inflatable barriers and treat my injuries in-character.

I wanted to help the paramedic. I did not say they did not have EVA gear. I said they did not have firelock access. You say it was the CMO and I was wrong. I contest that it does not matter; my character thought it was a paramedic. It doesn't matter what a moderator with full command of details sees, what matters is what the characters see. This is where you accuse me of lying.

I went from the first set of firelocks, which was a mess of people trying to get out, through pressurized space, to the north window which was shattered. There I entered. This is a true statement, this is not a lie. You are confused when you say I lied when I said I went back to pressurized space. I did. Then I went through the north firelock back in because I still did not know if Ashley Dawnguard, or anyone else, had been cleared from the bridge.

After seeing the Captain teleport out I had no way of knowing that the bridge was clear of casualties. You assume I am capable of seeing beyond my screen and knowing everything going on in a situation. I cannot be certain the bridge is clear of casualties until I have seen the entire bridge.

I did not use inflatables to repair the hull breach. As soon as I could tell there were no casualties, I turned the atmosphere alarm to filter and then set inflatables over a vent in order to engage in the pain and injury avoidance roleplay you and the chief engineer claim I did not make. I did not go and fiddle with firelocks to get back out of the room, since that would expose me to even more vacuum, pain, and injury which you claim I need to avoid. I took the immediate steps possible to hole up and wait for the room to pressurize.

I did not repair the hull breach. You will find no log of me placing rods on a latticework. I did not place an inflatable over the hull breach, even though its entirely what an inflatable wall is for.

The action last year was disregarding decompression to conduct non-life-saving repairs. Since then, my goal has always been to curtail the decompression exposure to life saving only. Accidents have still happened, but I make a serious effort to resort to emergency methods only in real emergencies. Now, there was a report that there was a life to save on the bridge, and I was one of the first on the scene. This is confirmed by the Captain. I arrived too late to rescue anyone, found myself stuck behind firelocks, did not wish to re-open the firelocks and risk venting the hall out the bridge hole, and attempted to get myself back under pressure as quickly as possible. For this I am being banned for a week based on a year-old warning you want to punish me for. I believe I was told that warnings fall off action-ability after some time? Can another staff member confirm?

The main problem is that you refuse to accept that my character's motivations are valid from his own frame of reference, because he believed he was engaged in life-saving efforts and holds his own life cheaply. I did not "hang out in dangerous places". You are in fact admonishing me for hastily using what gear I had to make the place I was in no longer dangerous!

At the end when the bridge was sealed I opened the firelocks to pressurize the bridge immediately. This is not 'venting the hallways'. Venting a room is exposing it to space. I only borrowed some air from one very large room to fill one much smaller room, after which, it was completely pressurize and I "hung around" doing the repair work I'm asked to do. This is a very common practice among engineering when filling a critical room with air, since the main halls contain hundreds of thousands of liters of air and can yield tens of thousands of liters without triggering atmosphere alarms.

You are banning a fireman for going into a burning building when a woman screams help, or a sailor for diving overboard to rescue someone drowning. On top of that, you criticize him for not being afraid of the flames, and for using his fire blanket to protect himself from the flames. You are also calling him a liar for not being able to tell a paramedic from a CMO wearing the same space suit. Its patently ridiculous.

[Nikov]

Unless I am mistaken, the specific rule which you are attempting to enforce is this:

Avoid pain. A sane, well-rounded character would not engage in actions that are overly painful, or put themselves in harm's way without consideration.

"Consideration" is deliberately written into the rules to allow for actions in extraordinary circumstances. It was my in-character consideration that a brief exposure to low pressure in order to rescue a woman is sufficient consideration to put himself in harm's way. It is not a question of what the CE or the CMO or the AI thought; they operate on their own information, motivation and value judgements. I stayed in character because this is a roleplaying server, and characters make mistakes. Making the mistakes our characters would make is the basis of making believable characters, and what seperates the Sues and the powergamers from the broken and the human.

I want to see this argument move away from gotchas and timeline nitpicking trying to call me a liar, and focus on the rule you are attempting to enforce and if I actually violated it.

[UnknownMurder]

I recall reading absolutely nothing from Oreki. My only memory of interaction with Oreki is him insulting my character several rounds ago.

And you insulting my character several rounds again, we have disagreement on some cases. However Irrelevant.

 

I did not carelessly depressurize hallways. Oreki is wrong. I opened firelocks and used inflatables to cycle in carefully.

I did not ignore pain RP. Oreki is wrong. As soon as the motivation to work through pain was gone, I proceeded to put myself under pressure using inflatable barriers and treat my injuries in-character.

 

Screenshots were already saved and given to DatBerry that you were hanging around, putting yourelf under the inflatable barrier healing slowly, and eventually repairing the breach while the people were already gone. Why didn't get yourself out of harm's way? Chief Medical Officer, the AI, and myself have seen this poor roleplay. You literally admitted to repairing the depressurized area without a safety gear where engineers with safety gear are on sight. Engineer Cassidy Ford was there, repairing the breach with safety gears. So was the Engineering Apprentice Ophflem(?), what a surprise with safety gear too! I have more witnesses, but I believe they'll do.

 

Oreki is wrong.

That's not helping your case, Mr. Trump.

 

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As requested by moderator in charge of this ban, I will provide a witness testimonial.

As I entered the Bridge with Lukas Chapman whom is a Security Officer at that time. Raymond Hawkins was the Head of Security. We enter the Bridge together, I tell Lukas Chapman to lie on the floor so that I may pull him under my feet while we enter the breach zone. I have seen Lukas Chapman taking a wounded out of the Bridge. No one was around us yet. Just Legatus was there watching the door. I immediately seal the breach by using the Rapid Construction Device module or known as RCD module in my Advanced Hardsuit. The breach was sealed. Engineers starts pouring in.

This is the part where I started noticing Manfred Hayden, atmospheric technician. Manfred Hayden enters the breached area from the north of Bridge where windows were damaged. He builds a inflation barrier there. Chief Medical Officer reports it to me, I shrugged it off and mentioned that he'll die and probably leave the place. Unfortunately, he did not and ended up powergaming some more where I began to report it. He moved to the Conference Door and hid himself in the inflation barrier and waited for something whilst healing up. Did not even bother to leave the area through conference room. As soon as engineers were clearing up, he aggressively questions an engineer as if he was Chief Engineer to see if the breach was sealed. Seal was breached a long time. He would then head back to where he came from and open the bridge shutters to balance the pressure. Remember, the bridge was still depressurized when he did this. After doing so, he does electrical/mechanical work acting as if the pain was nothing. As I got two diseases and moved to Medical Bay to see Dr. Nicholas Nelond, that's where I lost sight of Manfred Hayden.

[Roderick Grey]

From your account it seems to me like you went into a dangerous area with good reason but poorly prepared (not super important) and then instead of leaving you then attempted to make it, or atleast a portion of it habitable which to me definitely seems questionable. I can understand your argument and your sound methods for making the area you were in a safe place for you to be in, but do you understand that leaving the area would definitely be the more sensible option if your presence there wasn't doing anyone any good?

I'm interested in what attempts at communication you made during the chaos aswell; what did Manfred actually understand about the situation before putting his life at risk? You relate your account to firemen, but it would take a lot of information for a fireman to rush into a burning building without protection. Them doing it if they could get in, save someone and get out quickly is definitely plausible but spending time searching fruitlessly and then barricading yourself inside the burning building until the flames subside is pretty iffy.

Could you explain in a bit more depth your reasoning for staying, did you go too far in until escape wasn't possible?

[Synnono]

I don't know if I was participating closely enough in this to be considered 'involved' in this incident, but since I was in the round and near the site, I'll add my two cents.

I was playing Stefanie Matis, the IAA, and one of the people who was in an EVA suit crowding the bridge firelocks. I was purposefully meddling, trying to take photographs of the damage for an eventual report on the shift and intruder, and attempting to RP just a bit of a nuisance in the process.

I can confirm that in the moments I was meddling my way onto the bridge, I did witness Manfred Hayden behind multiple inflatable walls. He did not appear to be repairing the damage to the bridge. The only report that I heard (and remembered) concerning any venting of the halls was made by the AI in the form of an announcement.

I can also confirm the character qualities and flaws Nikov is describing in this appeal. I have had extensive conversations and interactions with the character during other rounds as Zahra Karimi, and can say with some certainty that Manfred is every bit as self-destructively selfless as he appears to be. In my opinion, he puts more effort into role-playing this trait and others consistently than the majority of players I witness on the server. Oftentimes, doing so leads to Manfred's death, or the failure of his objectives as an antagonist, and to me that is indicative of behavior that is the opposite of powergaming. The player tends to put the character before the game, whether that means Manfred is well-suited or poorly-suited to whatever situation is ongoing. He's been a believable hero and a believable horror in the past. I don't think he does either to play-to-win.

Finally, while not a member of staff, I am capable of shamelessly quoting one from another thread:

 

Having huge sheets of notes and warnings isnt necessarily a bad thing. We look for patterns of consistent behavior when we ban someone. After about three months or so a note or a warning becomes a lot less relevant. Unless you're an odd case where you have months of inactivity and then you go back to being a massive shithead. Cases like that are super rare though.

With the caveat that context in the other thread may be important, and while I obviously don't have access to Manfred's notes, if the connection being made is between this occurance and an incident from 2015, I would not personally classify that as a pattern of consistent behavior.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Guest

[Nikov]

I did not seal the breach. UnknownMurder sealed the breach with the RCD. He just said so. In fact, he said the breach was sealed before I even entered.

How can I enter a breached area, if UnknownMurder sealed it before I entered.

It follows by UnknownMurder's testimony that I did not enter a breached area. I entered a low pressure area. Specifically, 9kpa. Holding a pressure, half the armstrong line. Specifically, the air pressure at 55,000 feet. Manfred with an oxygen mask.

Skydiving. 50's era jet fighters. WWII heavy bomber crews. Adrenaline junkies, glory-hounds, and steel eyed missile men. Guess which one Manfred presents himself as, which two he actually is, and why he's on a psychologist's couch. That's in-character. Synnono has told you if I do anything, its my damnedest to stay in character. For the same reason its in character for an Unathi to die vaingloriously, its in character for Manfred to go skydiving vaingloriously. The day before I hauled Poslan out of low pressure while he lay gasping for last rites. Its his character to lay down and die, its my character to die in his boots.

I repaired windows after asking if the breach was sealed. Its my job to get air into a room, and I can't do that if I don't know if the breach is sealed. So, UnknownMurder, you sealed the breach, I asked if the breach was sealed, you told me the breach was sealed, and I then I equalized the pressure. Which is my job.

Pressure equalized, I went to work fixing windows. Not a breach. Windows. I had already treated my injuries with medicine. There is no "out of harms way" to be had when the room is pressurized, my injuries treated, and work to be done. Should I go put a space suit on now that' its 101 kpa, pressure equalized by your admission?

"Screenshots were already saved and given to DatBerry that you were hanging around, putting yourelf under the inflatable barrier healing slowly ... Why didn't get yourself out of harm's way?"

So you have screenshots of me putting myself out of harm's way, then ask why I didn't put myself out of harm's way. You claim I breached the halls, but you claim you sealed the breach before I entered the room. You claim I was hanging around in a breach after you sealed the breach. You're not consistent. I am. I took this too far a year ago and since then scaled it back to lifesaving. He's still reckless as a matter of character flaws. This worked fine for a year, no further reported incidents. I've even started posing a nosebleed, in order to roleplay the consequences more thoroughly! But I haven't broken character. I've taken the broken character to a psychologist's couch over the very thing you're issuing an OOC ban over.

If you want to address this as a character problem, we have DO's and IRs. A seven day ban for playing a character consistently for a year is not the solution to take. Get Hayden to do psychotherapy, which is what I've already started.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I was the CMO Fereydoun Nioathi. I saw the EMT and Manfred attempting to gain access into the bridge from the east side but a borg was yelling at them. I ignored them and went all the way around to the west to go in with my EVA suit. I enter and see Manfred Hayden standing in the west side of the bridge, and I tell them that they need to leave. They ignore me and build a little wall around a vent right by the conference room. I point at him, then point at the bridge door, and he continues to ignore me.

I don't notice what he's doing after that for awhile because I go to collect the scattered remains of the ninja. Next I see him he's walking across the bridge without an EVA suit again and he crow-bars open the firelocks to let air rush in from the hall, causing stuff to get blown around. Fereydoun asks the HoS and CE for someone to do something about him but I never saw any action taken against him IC so I adminhelped.

[UnknownMurder]

Apologies, Jackboot. It should have been my responsibility to tell Manfred Hayden to leave, however I was ill and was finishing up my work. I was with Dr. Nicholas Nelond during my recovery but he should have known better not to do it.

This is also a mistake on my part, allow me to rephrase of what I think of a breached means, it means depressurized area. You walked into a dangerous depressurized zone. Allow me to correct little parts.

You walked into a depressurized area without a safety gear, exposed to hazardous and depressurization. While you were fixing the windows and attempting to repair the pressure, you were still exposed to depressurization. Please don't make this harder than it needs to be.

Oh. I do not believe this will be counted for Incident Report because the explosion was caused by an antagonist shenanigan whilst chaser the ninja named Aiko who was the source of the explosion.

As mentioned. There are witnesses and Roderick Grey's point still stands and the decisive evidence is with DatBerry and DatBerry pretty much seen the the damage of the explosion as Rob Oster.

[Nikov]

Oh, so it was a paramedic after all. Yes, you were telling me to leave. I couldn't leave my inflatable tent without exposing myself to further self-harm, so I stayed put. I also didn't feel much like talking, because I was licking my wounds. When I opened the firelock some papers fluttered around as pressure equalized. So what. That's nothing at all like " depressurizing hallways.". UM states the breach was sealed when this happened, and phrases it as "equalizing pressure". The room was already filled to a good degree by the air vents I'd turned on when I left my 'tent', equalized pressure and fluttered papers around. So some of these reported actions are either false, or exaggerated, or misunderstood. I don't suspect anyone's lying, but we all have limited information and appeal threads are to get that information into the open.

I did not fix the windows until after I equalized pressure. It would be impossible not to, as I have to open the firelocks to get to the windows. I waited for the vents to pressurize the bridge partway (over 50kpa, I recall no grey or black pressure warning) left my inflatable barrier shelter, opened a firelock, the air equalized, the air alarm was within acceptable pressure for the alarm, the firelocks lifted automatically. At that point I started fixing windows. As I was walking around in 101kpa, there is no case that my actions were wrong to continue working after already treating my low pressure injuries and being checked over by the CMO.

Returning to the documented reason for the ban:

rushing into a vented bridge,

Not vented, sealed and underpressure.

with no EVA gear

Not EVA, underpressure, wearing hardhat, hazard vest, breath mask, bottle, and with inflatables

using inflatable walls to seal yourself

Used tools to avoid pain

and fix the breach

Not breached. Breach already fixed.

without any EVA gear,

It wasn't EVA. The room was sealed and underpressured.

ignoring pain and not avoiding it,

Avoided pain by using inflatable walls

The rules state: Avoid pain. A sane, well-rounded character would not engage in actions that are overly painful, or put themselves in harm's way without consideration.

I gave consideration, avoided pain, used tools to minimize pain, and did so in the false belief it was a lifesaving risk. If you want to deal with this IC, as I think you probably should, then there's a roleplaying server I know of called Aurora, that has duty officers, incident reports, medical records, psychiatrists, friends intervening, and lots of other ways to play out the storyline. I'd have to get unbanned first, though.

My situation was entirely player-versus-enviroment, I see no reason why it wouldn't be an IR, since I previously had an IR filed for responding to antag-induced hull breaches. Nothing came of the IR then, so I am unsure why its a seven day ban based on year-old notes now.

[ForgottenTraveller]

I was the other engineer there In full EVA and brought the barriers to the scene, that no one has mentioned yet. I set up the inflatable doors at the window that let people in and out. Manfred had opened a window hazard lock and caused slight depressurisation. Nothing major. After getting inside to see the CE placing the final panel on the breach while the captain was inside with a teleportal open. When I got in. I made the 4th or 5th person in full EVA gear in the room. And Manfred came in after me following my path in. For the most part I just saw Manfred pulling up floor tiles checking wires like I had done on the other half of the bridge and then seal themselves inside a barrier wall. I continued repairing, and working around the CE, the other atmos tech, the CMO in EVA gear, and at times the captain. During this time Manfred moved from the conference barrier wall to the hazard locks on the windows by where I came in. And remained there until there was enough atmos to start wiring and grilling the windows. Despite multiple requests from myself for one of the two techs present in the area to bring pipes or the pipe dispenser to finish the work. Nor were any portable air pumps brought.

So while can comprehend ignoring pain to rescue someone, the amount of time and the activities undertaken in the area, when he had ample time to get more supplies to go to EVA for the other suit which was 30 second away, or even the other soft suit in the bridge itself, were ignored.

[Nikov]

From your account it seems to me like you went into a dangerous area with good reason but poorly prepared (not super important) and then instead of leaving you then attempted to make it, or atleast a portion of it habitable which to me definitely seems questionable. I can understand your argument and your sound methods for making the area you were in a safe place for you to be in, but do you understand that leaving the area would definitely be the more sensible option if your presence there wasn't doing anyone any good?

I'm interested in what attempts at communication you made during the chaos as well; what did Manfred actually understand about the situation before putting his life at risk? You relate your account to firemen, but it would take a lot of information for a fireman to rush into a burning building without protection. Them doing it if they could get in, save someone and get out quickly is definitely plausible but spending time searching fruitlessly and then barricading yourself inside the burning building until the flames subside is pretty iffy.

Could you explain in a bit more depth your reasoning for staying, did you go too far in until escape wasn't possible?

 

Getting in required me to climb over a table. Once on the table I read the pressure as 9.54 kpa and thought 'shit, I need pressure'. I didn't want to go back through the firelock as I was afraid that might vent the hallway, because I hadn't yet confirmed if the room was breached or not breached. So I went to the air vents and turned them on, then put an inflatable barrier over myself and a vent to get my character under pressure.

I really made a beeline to getting air flowing to the room and then myself under a pressure as fast as possible. I then stayed put under pressure and ignored people other than my boss telling me to leave, because that would involve going back under low pressure and injuring myself further. The vent was next to the conference room door, so I was far from my entry point (and a table in the way to climb on besides). I didn't want to hack doors because atmos techs with insulated gloves and multitools are somewhat suspect tampering with doors on the bridge. Leaving through firelocks required exposing myself to even more pain, so I waited until pressure was back above the pain threshold, and equalized the room from the hall since the vent pipes were broken.

Then everything was fixed. I was in 101 kpa, the CMO had looked over me, I'd treated myself with a trauma kit... what, go to medbay and ask the CMO to check me again? I probably would have, and set my pose to include a bloody nose, and argue technique with the CE in-character, but instead I got bwoinked while washing the blood off my shirt.

[DatBerry]

we've already established trying to get your character dick wet a valid reason to enter, but that doesn't really explain why you decided to hang inside for so long.

 

 

this is the screenshot UM was talking about, if you opened the shutter, got in, and saw the captain take the dawngaurd to safety, why didnt you just go back from where you came from? you had inflatables, you could've placed one, opened the firelock you came from and went back outside without venting the hallway, but in the end you did open the firelock to equalize pressure anyway.

why did you decide to stay inside?

[Roderick Grey]

Getting in required me to climb over a table. Once on the table I read the pressure as 9.54 kpa and thought 'shit, I need pressure'. I didn't want to go back through the firelock as I was afraid that might vent the hallway, because I hadn't yet confirmed if the room was breached or not breached. So I went to the air vents and turned them on, then put an inflatable barrier over myself and a vent to get my character under pressure.

I really made a beeline to getting air flowing to the room and then myself under a pressure as fast as possible. I then stayed put under pressure and ignored people other than my boss telling me to leave, because that would involve going back under low pressure and injuring myself further. The vent was next to the conference room door, so I was far from my entry point (and a table in the way to climb on besides). I didn't want to hack doors because atmos techs with insulated gloves and multitools are somewhat suspect tampering with doors on the bridge. Leaving through firelocks required exposing myself to even more pain, so I waited until pressure was back above the pain threshold, and equalized the room from the hall since the vent pipes were broken.

Then everything was fixed. I was in 101 kpa, the CMO had looked over me, I'd treated myself with a trauma kit... what, go to medbay and ask the CMO to check me again? I probably would have, and set my pose to include a bloody nose, and argue technique with the CE in-character, but instead I got bwoinked while washing the blood off my shirt.

 

To be honest this seems like a pretty valid reason to remain inside provided you weren't performing any mundane work while still being hurt by the pressure.

There's still a grey area though about the information your atmos tech was operating under when they entered unprotected; from your account lives were in danger and your character wanted to help them which is totally fine, but going back to the fireman metaphor an unprotected fireman doesn't enter a flaming building if there's other firemen with protection already inside, or making their way inside. I understand that your character wanted to ensure those people were safe, and were willing to put themselves in harms way to do it but them doing that can be extremely detrimental in a variety of circumstances.

Did Manfred ask the CE what was going on? If any other engineers were geared up in handling it? Was Manfred aware of other crew better equipped to deal with the situation than he?, was any effort made to make himself aware before putting himself at risk?

I understand in a crisis situation a moment can mean the difference between life and death, as your character cares about his co-workers he wants to do the best he can for them but rushing head-first into situations unprepared both mentally and physically isn't beneficial to anyone. From these accounts it appears there were other people operating alongside you, and realistically the CE, as he was aware you were putting yourself in serious danger should've immediately diverted his/someone else's efforts to getting you the fuck out of harm's way because, if you're a fireman with protection in a burning building, another fireman without protection getting his skin toasted infront of you is more of a liability than an assest to any rescue effort, and Manfred, as a professional and one that takes the lives of others seriously should know that.

If Manfred didn't see anyone trying to handle it and asked if anyone was there handling it, or nearby, or prepping for it and then made a reasonable and informed decision to act then the ban should be lifted because in my mind that's sound and sensible RP for his character.

If Manfred wasn't aware of any crew handling it, but made no effort to inform himself before going dick-deep into low pressure land that's a pretty questionable area as I feel characters like that wouldn't live/stay employed very long, that's some pretty risky behavior for a trained professional to be doing, the sort of behavior that would warrant a warning.

If Manfred was aware of crew attempting to handle it, attempted to get a sitrep but they didn't respond then I think that fits sort of between the two listed above as in crisis situations people with good intentions can make mistakes due to a lack of communication.

If Manfred was aware of crew attempting to handle the situation and didn't attempt to communicate with them, instead trying to go hero mode along side them without protection or information then you start to enter poor OOC play, the kind of play that could be justifiably met with things like warnings and bans in my own opinion.

[Nikov]

we've already established trying to get your character dick wet a valid reason to enter,

 

 

Do you mind?

Yes, Grey. I didn't perform any mundane work while waiting for pressure. I didn't know about the circumstances on the bridge until after I found myself on it, and thought I was going to be one of the first on the scene. I couldn't anticipate the Captain teleporting on the bridge in a space suit, nor the Chief Engineer being on the bridge in as little time as well. What I focused on was getting there immediately, and once I crossed the Rubicon of climbing the table, felt pretty much stuck inside.

I would say that, in hindsight, it was needless to rush onto the bridge. With more information I would have stood by outside or gotten a hardsuit from EVA. However, I got tunnel-visioned into the goal of getting onto the bridge, and didn't remain aware of the surroundings. But the rules don't state that characters can't make mistakes.

[DatBerry]

we've already established trying to get your character dick wet a valid reason to enter,

 

 

Do you mind?

Yes, Grey. I didn't perform any mundane work while waiting for pressure. I didn't know about the circumstances on the bridge until after I found myself on it, and thought I was going to be one of the first on the scene. I couldn't anticipate the Captain teleporting on the bridge in a space suit, nor the Chief Engineer being on the bridge in as little time as well. What I focused on was getting there immediately, and once I crossed the Rubicon of climbing the table, felt pretty much stuck inside.

I would say that, in hindsight, it was needless to rush onto the bridge. With more information I would have stood by outside or gotten a hardsuit from EVA. However, I got tunnel-visioned into the goal of getting onto the bridge, and didn't remain aware of the surroundings. But the rules don't state that characters can't make mistakes.

 

you still haven't answered my question, did you just read the first half and ignored everything else?

why did you stay inside?

[Nikov]

we've already established trying to get your character dick wet a valid reason to enter,

 

 

Do you mind?

Yes, Grey. I didn't perform any mundane work while waiting for pressure. I didn't know about the circumstances on the bridge until after I found myself on it, and thought I was going to be one of the first on the scene. I couldn't anticipate the Captain teleporting on the bridge in a space suit, nor the Chief Engineer being on the bridge in as little time as well. What I focused on was getting there immediately, and once I crossed the Rubicon of climbing the table, felt pretty much stuck inside.

 

I did not go and fiddle with firelocks to get back out of the room, since that would expose me to even more vacuum, pain, and injury which you claim I need to avoid. I took the immediate steps possible to hole up and wait for the room to pressurize.

 

I couldn't leave my inflatable tent without exposing myself to further self-harm, so I stayed put.

 

Could you explain in a bit more depth your reasoning for staying, did you go too far in until escape wasn't possible?

 

Getting in required me to climb over a table. Once on the table I read the pressure as 9.54 kpa and thought 'shit, I need pressure'. I didn't want to go back through the firelock as I was afraid that might vent the hallway, because I hadn't yet confirmed if the room was breached or not breached. So I went to the air vents and turned them on, then put an inflatable barrier over myself and a vent to get my character under pressure.

I really made a beeline to getting air flowing to the room and then myself under a pressure as fast as possible. I then stayed put under pressure and ignored people other than my boss telling me to leave, because that would involve going back under low pressure and injuring myself further. The vent was next to the conference room door, so I was far from my entry point (and a table in the way to climb on besides). I didn't want to hack doors because atmos techs with insulated gloves and multitools are somewhat suspect tampering with doors on the bridge. Leaving through firelocks required exposing myself to even more pain, so I waited until pressure was back above the pain threshold, and equalized the room from the hall since the vent pipes were broken.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Guest

[DatBerry]

stuff

 

climbing over the table, dropping an inflatable wall and then leaving is faster and safer than running to the other side, dropping an inflatable wall and then fiddling with the air alarm to set vents to fill and waiting for your small wall to get filled with air. and you said by the time you entered the chief engineer has already sealed the breach, shouldn't you have seen the captain take off with the heroine? and even then, you could've escaped to the meeting room behind your inflatable wall, that wouldn't have breached the area.

since you did have a valid reason to go in, but not a really good reason to stay inside.

ill be lowering the ban to a 3 day ban, if you're in a depressurized area without gear or a proper reason to stay, you should make getting out your first priority.

since you've already been banned for 2 days, it will only be a day left, if i can't manage to reduce the original ban ill just unban you right now.

ill leave this open for a day, if anyone has anything left to say.