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General server complaint regarding revolution rounds


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My question to you Traveler is, was that fun?

Busting down in full riot armor and stunning the shit out of some generally unarmed engineers the moment they dare to actually carry out an antag action, was it fun?

 

1. The were armed. With a shotgun, an emitter, shield generator, ID changing console security cameras and remote atmos override console , and weapons recharger all within visual range. As far as anyone else knew they had energy weapons.

2. The had crashed the power to the entire station leaving the entire science wing screaming at the AI to fix the power. Medical also had concerns as there were two people in cryo and engineering shutting down the power and building a fort was going to kill people.

3. They had a FORT with fortifications and it could have easily been assumed with some of the gear and the lengths they went to black out engineering bombs and a small armoury.


This was not riot armoured security beating down a couple of unarmed engineers. This was a collection of security forces shitting their britches trying to stop engineering from dropping all power and having the remote access to siphon all the air out of a single room they chose killing those inside. They had the power and the means to repel that entire attack and overpower security. Instead they all ran and were hunted down and stopped. The heads of staff even attempted to find out what was going on from the engineering staff but given every second I had to report new and dangerous tech they were collecting while further blacking out the area. Security decided to move in and stop the threat to the entire station as in THEIR JOB no gank, no rambo it was an organised deployment of professionals against a hostile force. The hostile force that was armed did not fight with the weapons they had. They ran. They had reason an motivation to kill and could have made an attempt at that time if they liked well within the rules. They were not bound and they did amazingly well keeping quiet and building that up.


And it may have been much more fun if those caught did more than bitch over LOOC and say what are my charges. There was even a point where the captain was sitting in the room with all of them and one guard vs the six in perma. Armed or not 6v2 six is gonna win if they get the drop on them. It was fun and there could have been more fun in not for RNG meteoring perma and the sing getting loose from them hitting containment too.

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Things

 

Being shoved in the permabrig is hardly different from getting yourself shot to death.

The difference?You can whine about being taken out of the round in the permabrig, or you can whine about being taken out of the round in deadchat.The permabrig is built well for its purpose in dumping antags out of the round, the only ways out depend on security being purposely incompetent so they can let you out.The excuse of shoving everyone in permabrig so they can "Make a prison break" is absolutely fucking ridiculous, even more if you fucking fill the place with knock out gas.Even assuming that you somehow make it out of perma, how do you casually stroll past the whole security department and all its armed inhabitants?


See, the para-pen e-sword wombo combo WOULD be the realistic way someone would go about silently assasinating someone in a high security area, but that'd be shit RP and penalized.I can understand prioritizing the enjoyment of many over the enjoyment of a singular traitor, in a regular round.However, this is a revolution and regular crewmembers join the antag team aswell.So in the end of the day the question is why is it that the RP enjoyment of the security team is prioritized over the enjoyment of the rest of the crew which joined the revolution?Why can security take these antags, who are played by actual players, and make them feel bad with their meanie hurtie owie sticks, but the revolutionists cant inflict the same to the security and head team?What makes the enjoyment of one group of players be prioritized above the other one?


If the revolutionist players should stop whining about being manhandled by Security, shouldn't Security also stop whining about being chloraled and C4'ed by the revolution?



I have fucked up, as an antagonist.I have done ganky shit, I have done bad things.And I have been yelled at.And I deserved being yelled at for it, and I have been controlling my murderboner lately, as to avoid further incidents.



So my question here is, why is it that a security force which dumped at least 4 people into a permabrig with nothing but an orange jumpsuit, and then filled the permabrig with sleeping gas isn't being yelled at.


Why is it that one player's pursuit of green text is venerated and protected, while another's is punished and controlled?

Antags are not some sort of nonsentient force of nature, they are players too.And in a round in which everyone but sec and the heads can become an antag, the Admin team should make sure that the antag players are also having a good time, not tell them to shut the fuck up and take their batoning.

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Being shoved in the permabrig is hardly different from getting yourself shot to death.

I'm going to cut in here.


Being shoved into permabrig as a "be all end all" is bad. Even more so if it's your reaction to put people there as soon as you see a group "acting weird" during a rev round.


However, this wasn't the case here. In light of recent posts from sec players of that round, it seems clear that sec was dealing with a highly dangerous and tense situation; people had tried to murder the captain, and were equipped with weapons. Given that (due to IC info from centcom creating the whole rev situation) it was obvious that the crew as a whole was on edge, it was fairly easy to jump to the conclusion that some sort of mutiny was likely to take place (members of your crew attempt to kill your captain? Yeah.)


At this point, I wouldn't take any chances - letting people off would be nothing short of neglectful ("Yes, somebody tried to kill our captain 30 minutes ago, and you guys seem like you're trying to group up to conspire something, but yeaaaaaah, you're arrright.) And yes, putting people in perma and throwing away the key is bad - however, it also seems that the intent was to interrogate then release people. Then meteors hit and we all know what happened - that wasn't anybody's fault.


Two points, I guess.


1. Breaking out of perma when you've got 6+ people isn't actually /that/ hard. It mostly boils down to who's robust or not, but the moment people walk into perma, you can fairly easily bumrush them and take their gear/IDs to break out of the brig.


2. I don't get why the place was gassed, and none of the sec players answered to that yet. Could we get an explanation?

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First of all, so everything is clarified, let me list all the crimes I did manage to do as an antag (apart from converting people) before security rushed us:


1. Took shotgun outside of the bar (technically didn't have time to return it as sec did rush us out), never used it.

2. Stole security camera and ID computer circuit boards and weapons charger to give to the engineering protest organizers.

3. Went into engineering + aided in engineering's fortification so we could set up our first protest. Engineering made a sealed area so we could fall back in case security were on us. Was given and willfully held a flash given to her.

4. Resisted arrest by running away.

5. Pushed over an officer while in permabrig.

6. Owning a paralysis pen (never used, got put in permabrig locker but never suspected).

 

Crafter, Saylor, and Xullie were first on the radar by breaking through lockdown from the bar to the arcade after being told to leave the bar. This required tearing down tape and hacking a bolted door (clues).

 

Let me stop you right there. Crafter and the assistant, Saylor with her did not re-enter the bar after it was closed down. OOC'ly have no reason to lie about this. Security shoo'ed them out while Camile was on shift and Saylor was there RP'ing with her, and she huffed at them and left.


Camile ranted about her bar being taken down and then went on to convert more people, using that as a roleplay reason to get more people on her side - but did not try to reclaim the bar. Saylor was with me most of the entire time, so I can provide an alibi for him, at least.

 

During this time Crafter and Saylor were breaking into the security checkpoint at arrivals looting the boards from the cameras and a weapons charger as Saylor was in her body armour and carrying her shotgun about (investigation).

You are correct here.

 

As for your handling in the brig. Enroute a full list of all charges of each individual without accomplice and mutiny charges were read out by myself to the officers. The end result of all of these being easily spotted during the breach of engineering.

Yes, you have proof of the crime, but you didn't really have proof of mutiny, did you?


Going back to my original point, I'm still wondering if security knew there was a mutiny via RP reasons or if one of the revolutionaries actually came forth and said "Viva la revolution" because disobeying or being weird doesn't necessarily mean a revolution. Going onto grand sabotage, I feel it's a little too far-fetched, for one, guilt-by-association isn't really applicable to standing someone misdoing their job compared to murder. Also, engineers may have neglected to do the power, but it did not mean they wouldn't have intended to.


Think about it - if we set up computers in engineering to use, would we let the power run out? Also, we never really got to do our protest (which was going to be just literally, a roleplay protest, not a riot) which would have given security things to do. But like a premature ejaculation you guys came in too fast, so... the round just became what it was. We should have just spawned in the brig really.


Before then we were just committing crimes, I think only the number of people interracting on the scale would have been a clue, but still, I can't deny the gamemode gave it away to some can't-help-myself peeps.


We could have been traitors, cultists or even a hoard of changelings, IC'ly how would you know? No roleplay took place to question our motives. The RP was just really lacking. We were incarcerated and inoffensive as we were cuffed, RP could have taken place.


Security: You suspicious.

Security: *shoots* You go brig now.

Revolutionary Antag: My charges are?

Security: Shut the fuck up.

Security on radio: Yeah, mutiny.

Revolutionary Antag: Mutiny right?

Security: Yeah, mutiny.

Revolutionary Antag: Yes I broke into that place and stole stuff. But uh, who were we mutining against anyway? Heck, we could have been having a gang war.

Security: Go into perma and think about what you've done baldie.

 

1. The were armed. With a shotgun, an emitter, shield generator, ID changing console security cameras and remote atmos override console , and weapons recharger all within visual range. As far as anyone else knew they had energy weapons.

Camile willingly gave up her shotgun early in the round after her bar was shut down. Her backpack with her shotgun shells was left in her backpack in the bar also. So withdraw the shotgun, for correction.


Camile's weapon, which thankfully went under the radar was a paralysis pen, which never got used during the arrest because she got arrested by a cyborg.

 

I call bullshit. Code red often involve a high danger factor for the crew leaving the main halls a danger zone.

Please let me know where an assistant can go (other than tool storage) and a bartender with no bar is supposed to run to.

 

Can you roleplay with your head shot off, or when you're gibbed by parapen and C4, or when you get e-sworded to bits? No, you can't. You're dead, permanently if the antagonist is an asshole that stuffs your body in a fuck-off locker in maint or a locked personal closet where you'll never be found; or if they dispose of your head as well.

 

Not really, like, a villain can actually roleplay a hostage situation where they threaten to kill a kidnapped officer if the other officers don't let their friends go, or any other more realistic situation like that. I don't see why a well-roleplayed murder scene that isn't just "LOLKILL" isn't allowed, especially when you all have thirty minute respawn.


Considering for example, that officers can use weapons that can potentially kill (eg: Camile will have a heart-attack and go into crit if she is shot with a taser), it's not really out of bounds to think a villain might retaliate in a hostile or desperate way to a threat.


Though, I don't support sudden surprise killing, or hiding bodies where they can't be found with no lead-ups or good reason. Also, I must say that I've seen a traitor round on this server, no objectives. What's a traitor even supposed to do anyway? I can see stealing but uh... like, if you go stealth (which is the only way to avoid being brigged if you don't want to murderbone) and steal something... there's a gameplay reward for this?


 

What you people cannot seem to grasp is that arresting people 'doesn't take them out of the round', especially in large numbers. You have people to RP with an organize escape attempts with.

 

Imagine this. You're unarmed, you're handcuffed and whenever you try to break free of them and officer chases and stuns you. There's just officers everywhere and they're staring you down like vultures eyeing their prey, your every movement.


They drag you to a bed and bedcuff you in that small room in the permabrig. Your comrades try to escape, but they too suffer a similar fate.


One of you manages to break free of their cuffs and runs, she pushes over an officer and makes a run for it. Freedom at last! Maybe those airlocks can magically open somehow? Nah jk, security cyborg got her. She's flashed and cuffed again.


You stay in that room until the round ends while you talk and use emotional /me commands. The end.

 

Angry mobs. Threat to property and others. Arrest all then question. This is how the police work. And you being privileged enough to be able to interact in that roleplay. So instead of crying like a sore loser, just swallow it and roleplay. If sec has good reason to keep you, and more often than not they do, you're gonna be kept.

34z0vht.gif

 

I can't believe that attitude. The game isn't just about you, you know?


So instead of admitting there's a problem you're going to just hide behind that? The irony is that we never got questioned, not even interrogated, if I wanted to play to get that I should have just joined goon or something.

 

However, this wasn't the case here. In light of recent posts from sec players of that round, it seems clear that sec was dealing with a highly dangerous and tense situation; people had tried to murder the captain, and were equipped with weapons.

 

Not sure since I only knew my relative team and everything that happened to Camile, but the only weapons I knew from my party that sec might've caught onto was were:


1. My bartender's shotgun (confiscated early in the round)

2. One flash passed onto me by a comrade.

3. The engineers setting up an emitter in tool storage.


I hear only one (unknown to me) person bashed the Captain's head with a tool of some sort.

And in the permabrig after everyone was arrested another person punched him, yes.

 

2. I don't get why the place was gassed, and none of the sec players answered to that yet. Could we get an explanation?

Not sure, it just appeared suddenly (not even progressive like vent pumping), like a n20 canister was opened on full pressure or something. But I didn't see a canister within the range, but thankfully I was in the bedcuff room at the time or I would have gotten knocked out too.

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Lemme just chime in to a few points here, please. I may not have played in the round, but I can still offer logic and reasoning behind some of the things said, and some information on a couple of questions that you seemed to have concerning the bartender and assistants and an N2O canister.

 

Think about it - if we set up computers in engineering to use, would we let the power run out?

 

Yes because engineers have the know-how to replace the power cell of an APC in order to keep their equipment running.

 

But like a premature ejaculation you guys came in too fast

 

Lets not use sexual references. Keep things strictly PG-13.

 

Revolutionary Antag: My charges are?

 

Having a weapon charger is pretty suspicious if it's in a department that shouldn't have one. Just like having a security camera computer outside of sec or bridge, having an ID computer outside of bridge/sec checkpoint, etc. is terribly suspicious and most surely illegal because it can fall under sabotage. Maybe not mutiny, but having those three things can definitely fall under sabotage or even grand sabotage if they were built without head approval.

 

Please let me know where an assistant can go (other than tool storage) and a bartender with no bar is supposed to run to.

 

In a situation like this, the Bartender and Assistants fall under the Civilian department. If a Civilian is unable to go to his department for X or Y legit reason (such as said room being blown up or bolted under Central orders), then they should report to another Civilian sub-department such as Hydroponics, Cargo, Kitchen, and the Janitor's closet.

 

I don't see why a well-roleplayed murder scene that isn't just "LOLKILL" isn't allowed, especially when you all have thirty minute respawn.

 

Even though our rules state that killing isn't preferred, an antagonist can kill another player so long as it isn't gank. Gank is defined as killing them without RP by, for example, parapenning them and then e-swording them to death as soon as they drop and then spacing the corpse. But doing something such as trapping them in a fire closet, interrogating them for information they might have, and then telling them why you're going to kill them before committing the deed would not fall under gank. This is one of the reasons as to why people that have been cloned do not remember anything that happened in the, roughly, last thirty minutes before dying. Parapen, they're still unaware, they drop, drag them to the closet, interrogation, explanation, and kill; roughly thirty minutes.

 

They drag you to a bed and bedcuff you in that small room in the permabrig. Your comrades try to escape, but they too suffer a similar fate.

 

Bucklecuffing someone to a bed is not okay. You should only expect to be bucklecuffed to a bed while the officer is stripping you of your gear and setting the timer (and they /must/ unbuckle and uncuff you after that) or if you've been repeatedly trying to escape in the small cells. If they leave you bucklecuffed for, say theft, then you should ahelp that if staff haven't noticed, and we'll notify the officer to kindly uncuff you.

 

You stay in that room until the round ends while you talk and use emotional /me commands. The end.

 

This seems like RP?

 

Not sure, it just appeared suddenly (not even progressive like vent pumping), like a n20 canister was opened on full pressure or something. But I didn't see a canister within the range, but thankfully I was in the bedcuff room at the time or I would have gotten knocked out too.

 

Just for information's sake, there is an N2O canister next to the ID locked lockers by the permawing. This canister, I believe, is connected to an injector inside the permawing (but not the bedroom in the permawing) in order to inject sleeping gas into the room to knock out people in the case of a small riot or Security needing to enter the room while the prisoners violent. From inside the permawing you can't see the canister, but on your way to it you can.

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> Apologies a member of security had said you had a shotgun and you sprite seemed to have one on your back. Error there.

> Xullie hacked and raised the bolts of the door into the arcade (Also removing police tape) which was also locked down. Given you followed him moments later into it. Assuming you knew would have been an easy mistake.

> I as AI had no proof of mutiny and did not list them as the charges of high crimes I gave to you all. That was purely a security decision.

> As for where to go. Cargo would have also been an option or reassignment which should have been presented as an option at some point.

> And the captain was first attacked with an energy sword. The second time with a tool.

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Hey guys, let me just give you my two cents about the round. I was the captain during the round, Eddie Clark. I was there for the full round so let me tell you my experience. The round began with the usual centcomm report about the pay being halved so I announced it to the crew. Now with that out of the way I left the bridge for the first time that round, (probably 5 minutes into the round). I was immediately ganked by an esword weilding janitor, I would have died if admins had stepped in. I then proceeded to do my usual rounds, abit into the round after the bar had been shut down I was talking to some crewmembers who were upset, trying to reason with them. It was there where I heard one whisper to jump me... I had that person brigged. The round then went on for a bit with the usual back and forth of a Rev round. At a point I went to make a sandwich and let my dog out, I was gone 10 minutes max. when I returned I was informed that engineering was practically revolting. Due to orders from centcomm that stated something along the lines that crewmembers had to be working at all times and the report I had received from the How and the HoP I ordered engineering to be arrested, this also lead to code red being declared. I then made my way to the brig in order to reason with the revs, try and talk it out. You can see in the logs Eddie Clark attempts to talk to the prisoners multiple times however the only response I got was being assaulted with a stool. Not a single Rev would stop yelling about them being innocent, completely engulfed in this stupid RP decision, not responding to anything else. I don't know much about how sec responded but I do know that the majority of the RP in permanent was not effective at all.


Sorry for the formatting, I wrote this on my phone.

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If the problem is ganky security, then make individual complaints on the gankiest security officers. More than likely, if your case is strong enough, they will be dealt with accordingly and will not be a problem ever again.


Stop making these stupidly vague complaints, expecting things to be done, and make an actual effort into reporting worst-case scenarios of shitcurity.

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I have to back up 1138 on this.


Vague, nondescript complaints such as

If we're going to have ganky security, then remove rp_rev and let's stick with normal rev

will be ignored. Frankly, they don't bring anything constructive to the thread, as they don't tell us anything about either what the issue is, or how you'd like to fix it.

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Not really a complaint as such, just a proposal based upon what I've read so far. But if you want constructive, then I suppose doing away with rev entirely would be best. I believe someone suggested a mutiny round instead, which would make more sense with the setting. Though even that would probably take some refining

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Not really a complaint as such, just a proposal based upon what I've read so far. But if you want constructive, then I suppose doing away with rev entirely would be best. I believe someone suggested a mutiny round instead, which would make more sense with the setting. Though even that would probably take some refining

That is being done (mutiny, that is). However, saying "people can't rp, so let's remove the rp from our rounds" is not a constructive suggestion.

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Put something in the revolutionary's t8r uplink that can trigger the "virus" event that opens up the prison doors and shuts off the lights. I've always wanted to see event triggers in addition to items in the uplink (prison breakout, ion anomaly, drone hacking, things that the Syndicate could be expected to orchestrate.) If by the almighty power of statistics they don't manage to catch all of you in a sweep-and-brig, then someone can pop the button and suddenly the six bored prisoners become rioters who will probably take down the two or three man teams sent to stuff people into the permabrig.

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Christmas kept me busy. Let's see.


@ForgottenTraveller:

This topic isn't really aimed at you, nor is an actual criticism of the players in the round. I prefer to get to the root of the problem than picking at silly things. Rest assured.


@Hartburry:

I get you but the actual truth is (from a rev leader who could see who was a rev or not) that the intial people you had in the brig were not revs. I still don't see how security still jumped to "revolution" and decided to brig every suspicious people they see. To be honest, it would be such a big deal if they RP'ed with us during the arrest/brigging.


If these people committed crimes (well, I don't know their particular crimes to be honest) they likely wouldn't have been thrown in the permabrig if people weren't expecting OOC'ly "Ooooh it's a rev round, therefore every single crime is a rev crime.".


But anyway, back on topic, to make this short. My issue was with the fact that security was "play-to-win" that round and despite this being allowed or justified there was no recognition or way for revolutionists to get further than they did. The RP level was abysmal, and apart from the perfectly-formed sentences, the actual actions were comparable to a light-RP server.


My character was injured from the permabrig breach, she was in critical condition from suffocation and unconscious yet was placed into the permabrig's prison without any medical treatment with cuffs and buckled into a chair until the round ended - which kept me out of the game from the shuttle calling to arrival - which is a pretty long time with a lot of missed RP.


This kind of action is reminiscent of light-RP servers when people *know* for sure you're an game-programmed traitor and want to see you fail your last "escape alive" objective (ironically since this server has none), but you get the picture.


This is just an example of how security-player interaction can fail on this server - it's not like I'm some griefer who doesn't RP and isn't contributing anything, people forget to actually RP on an RP server unless it's toward their friends or something. I understand this isn't an Aurora exclusive thing, but some admin awareness and intervention would be very beneficial.

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I got to, like, page three, and it just seems like an attack on the server. You can't have everyone have a perfect round every round. Things always go to hell. If you really don't like how it's run here, nobody is forcing you to play. I'm not staff, or an admin, I'm just giving you my piece.

*Disclaimer: This is my, and only my opinion. Don't bitch at me.*

Love, Kane

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This is some reverse psychology right?


Now Kane. There's no off button I'm afraid, I'm sorry it has to be this way. I can be nice, heck, I can be lovely if you sit me down with a cup of tea and some biscuits and have a nice chat about how we can discuss roleplay styles, but no, I have an issue right now, I've been dismissed once and I am expressing myself.


I come here, I present my raw, unedited opinion on the server which is fully constructive criticism, not an "attack", because honestly, things -could- be better on this server. You come here, make a whine about some conflict you don't even have to be involved in, then add some cheery "love, [yournamehere]" then ask for no one to react negatively to it. It's a laugh - I can't stand wimpy passive aggressive posts like yours. I don't made some If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.


All I really get is admins (except for maybe one or two people) being overly defensive and in denial that there's actually a problem. I don't want to see some novice management bs like that. But to be honest, I'm not going to single them out since it's a part of a bigger problem. I'm on the frickin' forums, chatting to people. I'm not griefing the server or DDoS'ing it or anything.


And yes, nobody is forcing me to play here. If I truly wanted to attack a server I'd be one of those morons who DDoS ss13 servers to let off steam; but I don't have the interest or time in doing such things. I think that even if I don't continue to play here that perhaps admins could take heed of what issues players might dislike in regards to Aurora. I personally believe it's much better than those people who find one problem then leave instantly without leaving feedback or being invested enough to tell people what is wrong.


Even if admins don't agree with my criticism and decided to continue things as they are, that's fine - I'll let them be. As long as perhaps someone else in future might read this topic and think "Ah, so this is how things are. I won't bother making a topic then." and will move on without wasting their time.

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