Staff complaint-ShameonTurtles/Sircatnip

[Bygonehero]

BYOND Key:Bygonehero

Staff BYOND Key:ShameonTurtles

Game ID:bPz-akfx

Reason for complaint: Overturn decision, and review round incidents

Evidence/logs/etc:

Additional remarks:

This complaint has little to do with ShameonTurtles or Sircatnip themselves. They handled my issue professionally, but I feel that I was unjustly singled out for this round. For the issue with turtles, I am aware notes carry a lot of leverage for future decisions by admin staff, so when I was told I got a note concerning the actions that I performed as a member of a team, for making a team decision, well, I was rather upset. As previously stated, we never meant to bomb arrivals. We tried to bomb their ship, but not only did their ship take little to no damage, but the blast projected more into arrivals causing damage we never intended.

This also highlights another problem. In this round, prior to even stealing the bombs from the mercs, we were told in AOOC to avoid venting arrivals by the mercs. I believe that they were using rules to protect their ship, something that the hiester ship cannot enjoy. Additionally, they were completely allied with security, a ERT was on station. All of the stations security forces, except for combat borgs were brought to bear. At this point, if we decided to fight, we would lose. In addition to this, we also had a traitor, which segways into my issue with Sircatnips decision which is less notable that this first one, but another critical issue with the round.

AgentWhatever- played Kikrakti the Vox that round. Even before our initial break-in of the station they went their separate way from the group. Once we actually got back on board, they brought it upon themselves to remain on the ship permanently. They voiced their disapproval of our ic actions in AOOC for shooting a miner that not only shot us first,but tried to break into our ship. After we had bombed the merc ship, they abandoned us entirely and went to join the crew, citing to Sircatnip as lack of communication and focus on murder by our team for their reasons for leaving. Keep in mind, that the only person we had actually killed was the miner at this point, and that we were actually in constant contact with them. We were also not focusing on murder. We had a plan in place to raid the vault. I ahelped about this, about them peace-tagging and selling the hiesters and other vox out for seemingly no reason. I even voiced my concerns that the reasons that AgentWhatever gave to Sircatnip were complete bull. I never discharged my weapon once on a crewmember that entire round. And we only actively tried to murder the people who were already contracted icly by the station to murder us. It makes no sense that a Vox would not only betray their heist team, but their fellow Vox out of the blue. My only issue with Sircatnip's decision is that they declared it an ic problem, when I feel it is obviously OOCly motivated.

[Garnascus]

Yeah to be honest i think you make a good point. I am not sure if how i feel about not letting you vent arrivals if the merc ship decides to dock there. Seems kinda unfair to me. I managed to save a screenshot at the end of round of the damage. Keep in mind this was after it was mostly repaired but just check where atmos airlocks are and you can tell where the damage was. Did you guys detonate a whole bunch of bombs around the ship?

 

 

Here is the note i see on your record regarding the incident.

 

 

I will get shame to post his reasoning. I dont really have a strong feeling yet. Just a gut feeling this might be a little strange.

[ShameOnTurtles]

For clarity, full PM history:

to BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): Hey, got a moment?

[Player PM] BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): Yes?

to BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): Could you explain the situation surrounding the two bombs?

[Player PM] BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): how the fuck did the bomb hit that far

[Player PM] BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): I put the bomb here

[Player PM] BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): We were going to blow up the merc ship

[Player PM] BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): But it did no damage to the ship

to BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): Force travels the path of least resistance, which is away from the solid object it's against. That's why there are specific shaped charges for damage to structures.

[Player PM] BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): You dont understand, it was in between a wall

[Player PM] BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): Why did it project that far when a wall was covering it, merc bombs were never that strong

to BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): It was in the window of the merc ship, yeah.

[Player PM] BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): And there was a wall between it and arrivals

[Player PM] BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): Well, it was a team thing to bomb the ship, we werent trying to bomb arrivals

to BygoneHero/(Ehkahkeeekiki)(?): Yeah, that's pretty clear. I'm just going to leave a note to be more careful with where you put your bombs, okay? Better thing would have been to put it on the opposite side of the merc ship from arrivals.

 

First off let me make it clear I was not punishing you on the basis that you attacked the mercenary ship while it was docked with the station. I think it's fine to do that if you have the proper build up.

Initially, you set off one bomb. It did a lot of damage to the station, and not much to the mercenary ship. Arrivals wasn't vented, and it's not like you were bombing it. Then you set the second bomb off, which did vent arrivals, and did equally little damage to the mercenary ship (although it did vent it).

I did not contact you because you decided to bomb something, so I didn't think it necessary to go over the reasoning for that bombing with your team. The reason was that the poor placement of TTVs lead to a spawn point being vented. As I said to you in PMs, a better idea would have been to put it on the other side of the mercenary ship from arrivals. Venting arrivals was a mistake, and not your intended purpose. I acknowledged that in PMs and I think I portrayed it in the note.

 

I am aware notes carry a lot of leverage for future decisions by admin staff

Yes and no. This note was documenting a mistake you made, so it wouldn't (and shouldn't) be taken into account for other issues unless this incident repeated itself.

I'll ping [mention]SirCatnip[/mention] for his thoughts on the second half of your complaint.

[UnknownMurder]

about them peace-tagging and selling the hiesters and other vox out for seemingly no reason. I even voiced my concerns that the reasons that AgentWhatever gave to Sircatnip were complete bull. I never discharged my weapon once on a crewmember that entire round. And we only actively tried to murder the people who were already contracted icly by the station to murder us. It makes no sense that a Vox would not only betray their heist team, but their fellow Vox out of the blue. My only issue with Sircatnip's decision is that they declared it an ic problem, when I feel it is obviously OOCly motivated.

 

I think I may be able to explain why this was IC reason from my perspective. I was using a secret transmission between me and Kikrakti on PDA.

I was Captain Vincent LeChiffre that round. During my broadcast over the radio channel, I had attempted a peaceful offering trade between Voxes and Crew. Although, that crashed since we learned of the shaft miner being caught and never responded back. I received a PDA message by Serena Johnson whom identified themselves as the Kikrakti. I strongly assumed that Serena had died or ended up being slaves to Voxes. Kikrakti voiced to me that he did not want to be part of the crew that murders people. Kikrakti later apologized and asked to be spared out of the Voxes then she later cooperated at the same time as Jack (merc) was cooperating. Kikrakti, Jack, Mandy Blackwell and I had a huge RP to reach to a peaceful treaty in Head of Staff preparations. It fortunately worked out to be a successful peaceful treaty with Leader ERT, Specialist ERT, and Head of Security trying their hardest to valid the two which I told them to back off. Kikrakti, Jack, and myself gets to go N.T.C.C. ODIN unharmed. I'm sure that's all the explanation that matters for this.

tl;dr

Vox crew raids Captain's Office. Vox gets to shuttle. Shaft Miner finds and stumbles upon shuttle. Vox kills shaft miner. One Vox didn't like your methods and asked Captain for forgiveness. Vox defected and asked to be spared out of others. Sole merc thinks he lost everything wants to kill the vox crew. Captain steps in and spares the both. L/TPR, S/TPR, HoS gets angry at Captain and attempts to valid antags. Captain steps in and tells them to fuck off. Antags gets to go home unharmed. The End.

[Bygonehero]

Yeah to be honest i think you make a good point. I am not sure if how i feel about not letting you vent arrivals if the merc ship decides to dock there. Seems kinda unfair to me. I managed to save a screenshot at the end of round of the damage. Keep in mind this was after it was mostly repaired but just check where atmos airlocks are and you can tell where the damage was. Did you guys detonate a whole bunch of bombs around the ship?

 

 

Here is the note i see on your record regarding the incident.

 

 

I will get shame to post his reasoning. I don't really have a strong feeling yet. Just a gut feeling this might be a little strange.

 

We used two bombs, and the actual placement locations of the bombs aren't even in your screenshot. They were much more powerful than I expected.

As for your reasoning UnknownMurder it would have been fine if there had been any buildup at all. If they contacted you with the miners PDA and before we even set bombs, Then it becomes even stupider as to why a Vox decides to leave the hiester team as well as their fellow Vox. By then we had killed 1 person. A person who broke into our ship and shot at us.

Team antags are suppose to be a team, from my perspective this guy was looking for any excuse he could get to leave the team. He himself never contributed to anything that the other antags did and if you aren't willing to play a team antag as a team then you shouldn't play it in the first place.

EDIT:Actually reading the note, I can actually fault ShameonTurtles very little since everything in the note is factual. I retract my complaint to have the note removed but while we are at it, Is it ok to bomb arrivals if antags are using it as their base of operations?

[Garnascus]

Yeah the screenshot was pretty impromptu. sorry about that. Ill check this over when i get to work tonight and we can go from there.

[ShameOnTurtles]

Is it ok to bomb arrivals if antags are using it as their base of operations?

 

Yes, but I would say it depends on the situation. Especially in arrivals, all reasonable steps should be taken to avoid using bombs or similarly destructive methods, but if it becomes necessary and reasonable steps are taken to avoid immediate collateral damage I don't see an issue with it. It'd be best to adminhelp those individual situations for clearance on server.

[Catnip]

Hey there, regarding my side of the complaint, it seems like AgentWhatever had gone into the round with intent to peacefully trade, and when they realized this wasn't going to happen, and that the Mercenaries were on their way to kill the Raiders, turned to the station crew for safety.

tl;dr

Vox crew raids Captain's Office. Vox gets to shuttle. Shaft Miner finds and stumbles upon shuttle. Vox kills shaft miner. One Vox didn't like your methods and asked Captain for forgiveness. Vox defected and asked to be spared out of others. Sole merc thinks he lost everything wants to kill the vox crew. Captain steps in and spares the both. L/TPR, S/TPR, HoS gets angry at Captain and attempts to valid antags. Captain steps in and tells them to fuck off. Antags gets to go home unharmed. The End.

 

However, you do make a good point, team antags should usually work as a team, and I am not seeing any agreement at the start of the round in AOOC; it seemed the heisters ended up going with trading as an OOC plan but things changed. It does seem that the choice to defect likely was OOCly motivated based on logs, so I'll have a word with them about trying to stick to the team, within reason, in a team-based gamemode in situations like this one. If the defecting had more buildup, sure, but as the complaint states;

"As for your reasoning UnknownMurder it would have been fine if there had been any buildup at all."

"Team antags are suppose to be a team, from my perspective this guy was looking for any excuse he could get to leave the team. He himself never contributed to anything that the other antags did and if you aren't willing to play a team antag as a team then you shouldn't play it in the first place."

[Bygonehero]

All issues tended to. Unless there is anything else, the complaint can be closed.

[Garnascus]

locking and archiving as this has been resolved