Scheveningen Posted August 8, 2017 Posted August 8, 2017 Currently aim intent works to do the following things: a.) Acts as a very generous aim assist. Not only has +10% to-hit ratio for those being targeted, but burst-fire weapons uncharacteristically act in a way that follows the position of the person being targeted for each shot, otherwise giving those with automatic weapons a larger edge than those who are firing normally with semi-automatic weapons. Only way to break being targeted down like this is by breaking line of sight. In which case, you are being shot already and you suffer immense slowdown from taking the first shot. b.) Each shot triggers on movement or interaction when aim permissions are default, which causes other issues when legitimately hostage taking, such as shooting too early when someone changes their face direction, chats normally or interacts with their inventory. Is effectively extremely punishing and favors the shooter. c.) Does not favor skill with shooting and properly leading with your shots, trivializing the purpose of learning how gunplay works in-game and putting it into practice, instead shoehorning the necessity for dexterity by putting everything you could want from gunplay into a single mechanic that requires zero effort to be successful with in ranged combat. Here's what should be done to remedy this: 1.) Upon one of the permissions for movement being violated for someone being targeted, the targeter will take one reflex shot and then will not be able to take aim again if the target moves for another three seconds, and their aim will be dropped and defaulted to free-shooting intent. This allows proper gunplay to take place if both subjects happen to be armed and not completely snowball advantage in favor of the person using the target intent, while also permitting the person being shot to react and fight back instead of being hopelessly rolled over by an overpowered mechanic that often is not even used for the purpose of hostage-taking but rather to use it as an aimbot to win gunfights effortlessly. 2.) Remove the to-hit bonus from targeting. The bonus makes no sense, gunplay is more interesting when missed shots happen. Missing rarely happens when someone is being targeted. 3.) Default all permissions to allow most forms of movement except running (sprinting) away. Anything else can be adjusted from their defaults rather than having everyone have an extremely itchy trigger finger by default. This immediately solves the issue with hostage taking while not completely screwing the chances of a hostage, allowing them to perhaps escape if they have an out. I consider this a high priority issue considering how the current state of the aim intent screws over combat, making gunfights way less interesting because of how it throws favorability in confrontations to the guy with a laser rifle abusing aim intent in order to straight up win conflicts without the need for skilled aiming. It seriously destroys a sense of immersion to make humanoids walking aimbots just because of this feature.
NoahKirchner Posted August 8, 2017 Posted August 8, 2017 i'd say add radio to that list of default triggers, seeing as how the first thing everyone wants to do when tagged is to scream "HELP GUY WITH GUN HOLDING ME UP IN MAINT AAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"
Scheveningen Posted August 8, 2017 Author Posted August 8, 2017 They should set that in their hostage intent HUD parts then if they intend to do so.
NoahKirchner Posted August 8, 2017 Posted August 8, 2017 They should set that in their hostage intent HUD parts then if they intend to do so. Then why change the defaults in the first place?
Scheveningen Posted August 8, 2017 Author Posted August 8, 2017 So that you can at least aim a gun at someone who isn't in the middle of radioing a message and end up shooting them for what seems like no reason? It is up to the player to discern what their intent is on the spot, it should be default to the lowest possible degree of force necessary, which is aiming a weapon at someone.
Kaed Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 So that you can at least aim a gun at someone who isn't in the middle of radioing a message and end up shooting them for what seems like no reason? It is up to the player to discern what their intent is on the spot, it should be default to the lowest possible degree of force necessary, which is aiming a weapon at someone. I disagree. It should be defaulted to the strongest degree of force. When you have a gun pointed at you, your first thought should not be 'I wonder what permissions I have while I have this gun pointed at me, am I allowed to radio?' it should be 'A gun is pointed at me, I better fucking listen to the person holding it and not pull any shit'. It gives you obvious messages when you are permitted to do something by it being turned off. There is also a two second delay period before they fire at you for doing forbidden things, making 'accidentally' violating them really hard. If you are typing something into the radio when gun is pointed at you, maybe you should stop typing, and pay attention to your surroundings, i.e. the potentially hostile gunman currently in your personal space, rather than 'accidentally' letting slip over the radio that someone is pointing a gun at you right now, or whining that you were just roleplaying when you decided to make your radio message cut off suddenly and it registered as using the radio so they shot you.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 I agree with Kaed. The permissions should remain at the default they are now. I can totally see removing the aim assist advantage. It is very valuable in battle.
Kaed Posted August 9, 2017 Posted August 9, 2017 To be perfectly honest, I think the aim intent should be reworked a little - you still get the aim assist and reflex fire on the first (couple?) shots, if they make you reflex fire, but after that, you have to manually shoot at them. You don't just get to stand there and auto-fire your gun at them until they die with precognitive accuracy. The targeting overlay should remain on them, to let them know you're still aiming the gun at them, but it shouldn't just keep going off until you are dead or stunned and unable to move. Guns are already dangerous enough without making killing someone require no input by the player at all beyond the initial aim.
Superiorform Posted August 11, 2017 Posted August 11, 2017 To be perfectly honest, I think the aim intent should be reworked a little - you still get the aim assist and reflex fire on the first (couple?) shots, if they make you reflex fire, but after that, you have to manually shoot at them. You don't just get to stand there and auto-fire your gun at them until they die with precognitive accuracy. The targeting overlay should remain on them, to let them know you're still aiming the gun at them, but it shouldn't just keep going off until you are dead or stunned and unable to move. Guns are already dangerous enough without making killing someone require no input by the player at all beyond the initial aim. Absolutely agree with this. We should get the precognitive aim for a few seconds because you were just stood there focusing and aiming for a while. If you only got one shot at the man who runs away, or pulls a gun and shoots you, it would be way to easy to quickdraw and turn the tables on your attacker, or get away.
Pacmandevil Posted August 11, 2017 Posted August 11, 2017 We should get the precognitive aim for a few seconds because you were just stood there focusing and aiming for a while. If you only got one shot at the man who runs away, or pulls a gun and shoots you, it would be way to easy to quickdraw and turn the tables on your attacker, or get away. The problem with this is that the whole "Aiming thing" Is the same amount of Effort as a single shot without it, and provides loads of benefits, including a higher hit chance. It Ideally should only be used to start a shootout, and not used in it at all, so preparedness is still awarded with the whole "First shot" advantage, without any bullshit autoaim afterwards. way to easy to quickdraw and turn the tables on your attacker, or get away. Git gud. you have a gun, and aimed at them to shoot them, so click on them if they're running away.
driecg36 Posted August 11, 2017 Posted August 11, 2017 My main problem is how a simple misclick to face someone results in a shot. I ALWAYS turn off all of the conditions (except maybe radio) when I aim at someone to make sure I don't shoot them when I don't want to. Sadly, this doesn't always happen vice versa, and has lead to MANY of my deaths from simply turning around/accidentally clicking on the screen, since the first shot usually sends everyone into a panic and results in violence and death. I feel like the initial conditions are a little too strict, resulting in people being shot when the shooter had no intention of shooting, nor the hostage any intention of resisting. It makes the mechanic a lot harder to use effectively, honestly. I'd even rather shooting "reflexively" wasn't a thing anymore, but maybe LRP-ers wouldn't respect it anymore.
Skull132 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Gonna merge Pacman's PR on this and see how it goes when it's live. The current implementation will flip you back to normal fire mode whenever your aim is broken, thus allowing you to recover faster than in current code (Where you have to toggle off in certain cases still). Also, absoloutely not going to go with Kaed's suggestion of keeping the crosshair on someone when the aim is not active: gameplay information must be consistent and clear.
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