[Accepted] BurgerBB's Unathi Whitelist Application 2: Electric Boogaloo

[BurgerBB]

Byond Key: BurgerBB

Character Names: Diamond With Flaw, Grant Focell

Species you are applying for: Unathi

Have you read the species lore page?: Yes.

Character Name: Ilaeza Marwani

Appearance:

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How do you rate your role playing ability?

Depends heavily on who I'm roleplaying with. Willing to roleplay, but never using a me command unless it's absolutely necessary. Anyone who has seen me play Diamond with Flaw can say that I put work before roleplay, but of course I do both at the same time when able.

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Why do you wish to play this race?

I'm interested in creating unique (See: Snowflake) characters that subvert expectations (See: Star Wars) and expose some of the lore present that is usually ignored.

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What makes roleplaying this species different than other species?

Unathi females are an underclass and a socially/politically inferior race compared to the skrell, dionaea, and humans. Not to mention that their race was subject to puppeteering by humans and skrell during the war.

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What do you like about this character?

See above.

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Backstory

While it wasn't too uncommon for females on Ouere to rebel against tradition, Ilaeza went above and beyond defying her Moghean-born parents. While she was passive during her first private teachings, it wasn't until the age of 12 where she would usually be the first to question or outright deny what was being taught if it conflicted with her Ouerean-like ideals. Her Moghean-born family thought this was a phase that would be outgrown, as long as it was remedied with verbal and physical "correction".

At the concern of her parents, Ilaeza was given special lessons at the young age of 16 that emphasize the old ways of the unathi with strict, abusive shaman relatives leading the lectures. Most of this knowledge was stored in written form, and required Ilaeza to formally learn how to read and write at the annoyance of her family. These lectures were poorly conceived, written with heavy Traditionalist Coalition bias, and complemented with tones of anti-human, anti-skrell sentiments that were all too common during the war. While those sentiments generally stuck, the teachings were generally ignored with a shield of heavy skepticism, but however still reluctantly learned and memorized.

Fearful of the lectures of traditionalism, Ilaeza began secretly researching other cultures in The Great Ouerean Library as a means of escapism. The texts and recordings were very limited, as most materials on the subject matter in the library were written exclusively by Unathi in the Sinta'Unathi and Sinta'Azaziba languages. She desired to very much read the rest of these texts, and spent 2 years using the locally available books and audio recordings to learn the universal language of science and research: Ceti Basic. Using a rough understanding of the language and several books, she outgrew her skepticism of humans and skrell, and grew an attachment to their culture where men and women were seen as equals. She dreamt of getting off her atomic-war ridden planet to the point where she started secretly saving for a travel visa to one day visit and perhaps live on these social paradises that the Humans and Skrell inhabit.

Unfortunately, at the age of 20, her father discovered her hidden cache of credits. Such a thing was never meant for his eyes, as her father controlled every aspect of her finances. This lead to a very intense lashing, and a torrent of verbal abuse. She had enough of it; with the remaining money she had saved up, she applied for a work visa and a shuttle pass, and travelled straight to Mendell city, where she enlisted as a cadet to work for Nanotrasen: The greatest mega-corporation in the galaxy.

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Final Notes:

[*]This character is not a "unathi with human mannerisms and human ideals" character. She has unathi mannerisms and Ouerean ideals that favor individualism; something that Ilaeza strives for. She wants to be treated as an individual with her own motives, not an object who is expected to conform to Moghean/Traditional ideals.

[*]She did not master ceti-basic over her two year period, only enough to form coherent sentences. Language proficiency is on par if not below average compared to other Unathi. Edited January 4, 2018 by Guest

[Zundy]

I'm at work at the moment so will leave more in-depth feedback when I get home.

 

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  [list=]
• Why even mention the orphanage when she's not an orphan, just a straight Guwan?

[list=]Why did she choose to be a cadet when she's appears to want to become learned; why doesn't she want to be a lab assistant or even a librarian?

[Superiorform]

I will give my feedback when not on mobile. I was skeptical of the female guwan cadet, but pleasantly surprised by the backstory.

[BurgerBB]

I'm at work at the moment so will leave more in-depth feedback when I get home.

 

• 
  [list=]
• Why even mention the orphanage when she's not an orphan, just a straight Guwan?

[list=]Why did she choose to be a cadet when she's appears to want to become learned; why doesn't she want to be a lab assistant or even a librarian?

 

I'm probably misunderstanding the lore. I was under the impression that she can join an orphanage/guild if she was labeled as a guwan.

It wasn't written because of embarrassment and I didn't know how to word this properly, but she wants to become a cadet because she doesn't want people like her father on the streets station.

[BurgerBB]

Removed the part about the orphanage. It is now "Declared Guwan, Left the planet"

[PoZe]

I have interacted with Burger ICly only with Diamond With Flaw. I enjoyed Rpying with this Dionea. However if this was an application for IPC, I would give a +1, but otherwise it is a -1(cause muh huh synth).

But seriously thought, I am giving this a +1. The character has a conflict with its race traditions for being a minority, which adds a huge interest to it. I think it would be a great addition to our Unathi community.

[NebulaFlare]

I've interacted with the diona Diamond, and he's pretty fun to rp with. But for this character - I dunno, it just strikes me as too forgiving of a backstory.

My own Unathi is not a Guwan, she was spared that. But she is a stubborn young woman who gets a lot of flack for being who she is. I get the idea that this female Guwan didn't get the harsh punishment she deserved.

Can females even get the option to be Guwandi?

[BurgerBB]

I've interacted with the diona Diamond, and he's pretty fun to rp with. But for this character - I dunno, it just strikes me as too forgiving of a backstory.

My own Unathi is not a Guwan, she was spared that. But she is a stubborn young woman who gets a lot of flack for being who she is. I get the idea that this female Guwan didn't get the harsh punishment she deserved.

Can females even get the option to be Guwandi?

 

What do you mean by forgiving? How it all turn out all right?

I mean I didn't want to feel creepy or anything but I omitted beatings and constant verbal abuse from a family as hardline as that.

When she's working on the Aurora, her father is going to continually haunt the back of her mind. Her exploitable information will mention bounties regarding that subject as well.

[Mcspizzy]

"she wants to become a cadet because she doesn't want people like her father on the streets station."

Can you explain a bit more on this? What exactly has her father done to her besides verbal abuse to cause her to strike him? What kind of person is her father? Its worrying to me that you would try to use this character, someone who is in security and has access to weapons to rid people she deems like her father from the station, as a character like this in sec will not last very long. And on the note of her guwan status, is hitting your dad really worth guwan status? As of the new change to guwans they are now almost exclusivly criminals of some degree, wouldnt having her just run away be more believeable?

[BurgerBB]

"she wants to become a cadet because she doesn't want people like her father on the streets station."

Can you explain a bit more on this? What exactly has her father done to her besides verbal abuse to cause her to strike him? What kind of person is her father? Its worrying to me that you would try to use this character, someone who is in security and has access to weapons to rid people she deems like her father from the station, as a character like this in sec will not last very long. And on the note of her guwan status, is hitting your dad really worth guwan status? As of the new change to guwans they are now almost exclusivly criminals of some degree, wouldnt having her just run away be more believeable?

 

Her father is manipulative, controlling, and I would say the incarnation of a Stephen King abusive religious father. She's not going to kill people if it reminds them of her father, most she would do it probably stunbatton them one extra time or lay down some exposition if their flavor text is lengthy enough because I'm not going to use RP as an excuse to murder someone as a non-antag.

I was told by the lore nerds on discord that assaulting your father is guwan worthy.

[Toska]

I've never gotten to directly rp with either characters, but I see Diamond with Flaw around fairly frequently and have had no issues with their RP.

However I think my biggest issue with the whitelist is the idea of a Guwan, who (to my understanding) are now pretty much fairly bad criminals, being hired as Security for a big company. Logically it doesn't make much sense to me for them to hire someone with a criminal background into a position where they have access to munitions and such.

I'm also not certain how a Moghean raised Unathi has Ouerean ideals and while I don't think it's impossible I feel like perhaps it is a little more unlikely to the extent she seems to exhibit. I'd also like to point out (though perhaps I'm getting a little nitpicky) that Moghean females don't work, and instead are more like housewives. In this situation I'm not really certain where she is getting the funds to save up and leave. On Moghes they are almost like materials that others own, little more than tools. Her being able to go and educate herself would be next to impossible, as females are basically denied this. Reading and writing is mostly a males job, so I'm not entirely certain why her Traditionalist family is breaking Unathi tradition to teach her these things.

Overall I feel that there is a very basic understanding of the species, and I can appreciate unique characters, but there comes a point where one can think too far out of the box and it comes off as breaking lore to fit them into a role they probably really don't belong in.

[NebulaFlare]

I've interacted with the diona Diamond, and he's pretty fun to rp with. But for this character - I dunno, it just strikes me as too forgiving of a backstory.

My own Unathi is not a Guwan, she was spared that. But she is a stubborn young woman who gets a lot of flack for being who she is. I get the idea that this female Guwan didn't get the harsh punishment she deserved.

Can females even get the option to be Guwandi?

 

What do you mean by forgiving? How it all turn out all right?

I mean I didn't want to feel creepy or anything but I omitted beatings and constant verbal abuse from a family as hardline as that.

When she's working on the Aurora, her father is going to continually haunt the back of her mind. Her exploitable information will mention bounties regarding that subject as well.

 

The household abuse would tie it in together. I hate to say it, but something like that is necessary to mold such a character.

I just had in my mind that striking back as a female warranted no option to go Guwandi.

When this gets approved, we will have to find a way to get our two lizards together in the same room to interact. Mine would abhor the very thought of working with a Guwan...

[BurgerBB]

I will add the household abuse officially to the backstory.

 

I've never gotten to directly rp with either characters, but I see Diamond with Flaw around fairly frequently and have had no issues with their RP.

However I think my biggest issue with the whitelist is the idea of a Guwan, who (to my understanding) are now pretty much fairly bad criminals, being hired as Security for a big company. Logically it doesn't make much sense to me for them to hire someone with a criminal background into a position where they have access to munitions and such.

I'm also not certain how a Moghean raised Unathi has Ouerean ideals and while I don't think it's impossible I feel like perhaps it is a little more unlikely to the extent she seems to exhibit. I'd also like to point out (though perhaps I'm getting a little nitpicky) that Moghean females don't work, and instead are more like housewives. In this situation I'm not really certain where she is getting the funds to save up and leave. On Moghes they are almost like materials that others own, little more than tools. Her being able to go and educate herself would be next to impossible, as females are basically denied this. Reading and writing is mostly a males job, so I'm not entirely certain why her Traditionalist family is breaking Unathi tradition to teach her these things.

Overall I feel that there is a very basic understanding of the species, and I can appreciate unique characters, but there comes a point where one can think too far out of the box and it comes off as breaking lore to fit them into a role they probably really don't belong in.

 

Guwan doesn't mean you're a criminal mastermind who relies on criminal activity to make a living. Guwan to the Unathi means "This person committed relatively serious offense, serious enough to warrant an exile, and therefore is scum of the earth."

Young children tend to be rebellious at a certain age, especially if their parents are abusive or unwelcoming compared to the alternative ideology that they're exposed to. It happens all the time between generations, especially this irl one where the refusal of traditions is at all time high in youth.

As for her finances, this character started a fund at the age of 16, and had it for a whole 4 years. Even at 10 credits per day (which is nothing) for 4 years is a total of 14,600 credits, which is more than enough for paperwork and shuttle expenses (based on cargo's shuttle costs).

As for her reading, her private lessons required the knowledge on how to read, as traditionalist tutors and materials were very hard to come by after the war given its outcome and attitudes towards it. The act was protested but there was virtually no other easy way to have these special teachings that were meant to correct her behavior and dislike of traditionalism. It's not too far fetched as the late era of slavery in the United States, similar things were happening where slave owners would allow priests to teach the slaves to learn how to read so they could read the bible.

As for nanotrasen, Guwan Unathi are actually hired by NanoTrasen for cheap and easy labour, according to lore nerds in discord.

I've done my research on the species. I've went the extra mile to even ask people in discord about things that weren't specified on the wiki. I daresay that I have a pretty solid understanding of the Unathi.

[Toska]

Young children tend to be rebellious at a certain age, especially if their parents are abusive or unwelcoming compared to the alternative ideology that they're exposed to. It happens all the time between generations, especially this irl one where the refusal of traditions is at all time high in youth.

 

While I understand the idea of "rebellious child/teenager" I feel that the way Unathi are brought up from a young age (especially in traditionalist families) puts a limit on just how rebellious one would behave. Angsty outbursts would but little more than just.. angsty outbursts. Females especially are shoe-horned into a specific role in society (on Moghes anyway) and while they can want more or disagree with their family or beliefs it's unlikely they wouldn't just keep their head down and follow along regardless.

 

As for her finances, this character started a fund at the age of 16, and had it for a whole 4 years. Even at 10 credits per day (which is nothing) for 4 years is a total of 14,600 credits, which is more than enough for paperwork and shuttle expenses (based on cargo's shuttle costs).

 

I'm still not understanding how she has a fund to begin with. Females don't work on Moghes, and unless she is stealing it in general I'm not really certain where the credits are coming from. I wasn't questioning how much she was making, I was questioning how she was making credits period.

 

As for her reading, her private lessons required the knowledge on how to read, as traditionalist tutors and materials were very hard to come by after the war given its outcome and attitudes towards it. The act was protested but there was virtually no other easy way to have these special teachings that were meant to correct her behavior and dislike of traditionalism. It's not too far fetched as the late era of slavery in the United States, similar things were happening where slave owners would allow priests to teach the slaves to learn how to read so they could read the bible.

I see where you're coming from now, but why would she be allowed to further educate herself outside of these lessons? Others would see her in this Great Library and it would raise problems with more than just her family. Remember, Females are discouraged or downright forbidden to seek higher education in such a way. Most institutes like this were run by clans or guilds to my understanding and it was only recently that schools and such even started opening up to allow others outside the clan/guild to attend.

 

Her father is manipulative, controlling, and I would say the incarnation of a Stephen King abusive religious father.

This furthers the question on how she was given the opportunity to go out and educate herself if her father is as controlling as he's made out to be. Why would he let her wander off alone? Wouldn't she be made to stay and learn how to behave as a proper female if she's shown consistent signs of not doing so? Unathi place a heavy emphasis on their social structure and it feels like this is being omitted in some way throughout the entire thing.

 

I've done my research on the species. I've went the extra mile to even ask people in discord about things that weren't specified on the wiki. I daresay that I have a pretty solid understanding of the Unathi.

 

I can see that you've done research, I wasn't exactly saying you hadn't, but it still feels like you aren't getting what makes Unathi Unathi. This application is better than the first, I don't want it to seem like I'm just here trying to shit on the application (quite the contrary, I'm trying to give constructive criticism), but there is something about the character that just.. doesn't come off as Unathi to me.

[BurgerBB]

At this rate I'm going to have to write up how my character learned how to eat food.

 

Young children tend to be rebellious at a certain age, especially if their parents are abusive or unwelcoming compared to the alternative ideology that they're exposed to. It happens all the time between generations, especially this irl one where the refusal of traditions is at all time high in youth.

 

While I understand the idea of "rebellious child/teenager" I feel that the way Unathi are brought up from a young age (especially in traditionalist families) puts a limit on just how rebellious one would behave. Angsty outbursts would but little more than just.. angsty outbursts. Females especially are shoe-horned into a specific role in society (on Moghes anyway) and while they can want more or disagree with their family or beliefs it's unlikely they wouldn't just keep their head down and follow along regardless.

 

I just thought it was made clear that she actively opposed the ideals. The revised backstory documenting the abuse should make that obvious now.

 

As for her finances, this character started a fund at the age of 16, and had it for a whole 4 years. Even at 10 credits per day (which is nothing) for 4 years is a total of 14,600 credits, which is more than enough for paperwork and shuttle expenses (based on cargo's shuttle costs).

 

I'm still not understanding how she has a fund to begin with. Females don't work on Moghes, and unless she is stealing it in general I'm not really certain where the credits are coming from. I wasn't questioning how much she was making, I was questioning how she was making credits period.

 

I didn't think that I would have to document where she got the money. I assume it could be an allowance or small amounts of work or favors she performed given her age. While still living in a home with males, housework would not occupy most of her time.

 

As for her reading, her private lessons required the knowledge on how to read, as traditionalist tutors and materials were very hard to come by after the war given its outcome and attitudes towards it. The act was protested but there was virtually no other easy way to have these special teachings that were meant to correct her behavior and dislike of traditionalism. It's not too far fetched as the late era of slavery in the United States, similar things were happening where slave owners would allow priests to teach the slaves to learn how to read so they could read the bible.

I see where you're coming from now, but why would she be allowed to further educate herself outside of these lessons? Others would see her in this Great Library and it would raise problems with more than just her family. Remember, Females are discouraged or downright forbidden to seek higher education in such a way. Most institutes like this were run by clans or guilds to my understanding and it was only recently that schools and such even started opening up to allow others outside the clan/guild to attend.

 

Only those with Traditionalist Ideals would take issue with a female learning how to read. I imagine not every single Unathi would take issue with this. Most they would do, given the political atmosphere, would give a glare and move on. I imagine that Traditionalists don't visit the library that often due to their small minds.

 

Her father is manipulative, controlling, and I would say the incarnation of a Stephen King abusive religious father.

This furthers the question on how she was given the opportunity to go out and educate herself if her father is as controlling as he's made out to be. Why would he let her wander off alone? Wouldn't she be made to stay and learn how to behave as a proper female if she's shown consistent signs of not doing so? Unathi place a heavy emphasis on their social structure and it feels like this is being omitted in some way throughout the entire thing.

 

The father wouldn't know about her going out and educating herself on other cultures. I suppose I could include that in the backstory that during lengthy errands, she would take out books from the library.

 

I've done my research on the species. I've went the extra mile to even ask people in discord about things that weren't specified on the wiki. I daresay that I have a pretty solid understanding of the Unathi.

 

I can see that you've done research, I wasn't exactly saying you hadn't, but it still feels like you aren't getting what makes Unathi Unathi. This application is better than the first, I don't want it to seem like I'm just here trying to shit on the application (quite the contrary, I'm trying to give constructive criticism), but there is something about the character that just.. doesn't come off as Unathi to me.

 

I like Unathi lore a lot, I really do, but I absolutely do not like how Unathi have to be seen as this one archetype when there's an entire culture (Ouerean) who have respect towards women like advanced cultures do. That might be the issue for you because a lot of people have issue with this character for the reason of "Oh it's not like most Unathi where they're not throwing spears, throwing insults at Guwan, and being a traditionalist."

[Munks]

People probably have an issue with it because your very first proposed Unathi is one that is basically anti-unathi in character. The entire point of these is to make people show at least some degree of understanding so we dont just have a bunch of Paradise-tier fursonas running around. I'd go out on a limb and say that this character is what the whitelists are here for. It's not even Ouerean, so I dont know why you brought it up, it's still a Moghean unathi that rebelled against pretty much everything unathi are about and faced no consequences from it because she's just that special except for being a Guwan which she accepted willingly out of stubbornness even though it should be one of the worst things that can happen. I shared a discord with you and got to listen to you whinge about not giving a fuck about "autistic" lore back when you wanted to app for Tajara because you just wanted to be a cat for the purpose of being a cat, and that you couldn't be assed to write out why you want to play a species or what makes RPing different which makes me a bit skeptical now seeing you continue to so vehemently insist on something like this that goes against everything Unathi are about. Everything about this character relies on subverting Unathi culture and society; not even just in the way she acts which would be one thing, but how others react to her, which is where the doubts about your intentions come in.

[tbear13]

Gonna have to give this a -1. This doesn't show a good understanding of the lore, the backstory.. doesn't add up, to say the least. The wiki, unless I'm mistaken, never says that Ouereans are the total opposite of Unathi culture, that seems to be your understanding.

Munks had a good point, your character is Moghean, yet you're essentially saying "Ouereans exist so I can play as a Moghean who totally subverted their culture." Feel free to correct me there, but if you're playing a Moghean, play a Moghean, subverting a sub-culture just because others exist, is just as bad as subverting the race itself.

[BurgerBB]

People probably have an issue with it because your very first proposed Unathi is one that is basically anti-unathi in character. The entire point of these is to make people show at least some degree of understanding so we dont just have a bunch of Paradise-tier fursonas running around. I'd go out on a limb and say that this character is what the whitelists are here for. It's not even Ouerean, so I dont know why you brought it up, it's still a Moghean unathi that rebelled against pretty much everything unathi are about and faced no consequences from it because she's just that special except for being a Guwan which she accepted willingly out of stubbornness even though it should be one of the worst things that can happen. I shared a discord with you and got to listen to you whinge about not giving a fuck about "autistic" lore back when you wanted to app for Tajara because you just wanted to be a cat for the purpose of being a cat, and that you couldn't be assed to write out why you want to play a species or what makes RPing different which makes me a bit skeptical now seeing you continue to so vehemently insist on something like this that goes against everything Unathi are about. Everything about this character relies on subverting Unathi culture and society; not even just in the way she acts which would be one thing, but how others react to her, which is where the doubts about your intentions come in.

 

are you okay

absolutely everything about this post is wrong i don't even know where to start so let's just go on order of most severe bullshit to least severe bullshit

That is not even what happened in regards to tajara lore, I was a brand new player and I'm like "I'm going to apply for tajara whitelist" and had the idea "I'll just make a character with human mannerisms and human behavior as I am new to RP and it should be easier for me" and turns out that's against the whitelist application guidelines so you know what I did? I didn't make a tajara whitelist, I didn't insult or bitch about the lore, I didn't call the lore autistic because that would just piss people off. I even complemented the barrier because it made sense that furries would just do that and not give a shit about the lore. I made a Dionaea whitelist instead because it's much more open ended, free, and interesting in terms of lore and from what I'm hearing I'm doing pretty damn good holding onto that Dionaea whitelist. The worst complaint I've received is "He is a... interesting character."

Like honestly the fact that you mention how I couldn't give a rats ass to write up the lore for the tajara app and all that actually false grudge garbage is just completely invalid given how much actual effort I made writing up this whitelist and how much effort I've made vehemently defending this whitelist. I think you need to realise that people can learn how to RP and contribute to the game when given time on the server. For example, my character Diamond with Flaws story went from a lame ass "He's a spiritual Dionaea who spews Confucius quotes." to a more interesting "He's a medical student with a shitton of debt and NanoTrasen is exploiting him for his money, so he works hard trying to repay nanotrasen so he can live a debt-free life while still trying to be moral."

Maybe you need to re-read the history of Unathi, perferablly the Contact War which is the biggest part of history for Unathi.

 

The universal panic and outrage made the usually divided and segregated Clans and nations of Moghes united in purpose. Nearly universally all non-Izweski clans formed or joined the Traditionalist Coalition, which invaded the Izweski Nation. Officially their reason for war was to liberate Moghes from the Izweski and xeno invaders, while their other goals were the destruction of the Hegemony and a return to the traditional ways of life. The Izweski themselves began to see civil unrest from angry commoners, while Lords dissatisfied with the rapid pace of modernization began defecting, taking their soldiers with them.

The violence lead to the catastrophe conflict now known as the Contact War, which began with the sudden invasion of Izweski lands east of Res'karum three days after the Izweski Colonists landed on Ourea.

The war was portrayed in Izweski propaganda as a war against backward savages. Unathi from the Traditionalist Coalition were 'dehumanized' and people were told to consider them as barely Sinta'Unathi. Many Izweski Unathi feared that the Traditionalists wanted to destroy modern society itself.

The Izweski were portrayed by the Traditionalists' propaganda as alien collaborators. The Izweski were painted to be oppressive puppets to the humans and Skrell, forcing literal alien culture on Moghes without the consent of its population. Many sincerely believed that the Hegemony was threatening the very foundation of what it meant to be Unathi, shaming their ancestors or having lost the favor of the Great Spirit.

 

And guess what, the Izweski won the war. Their ideals would've conquered over The Traditionalist Coalition's ideals. There would've been remnants of Izweski ideals still in Moghes to this day. It's only been 8 years since then so unless every single Izweski fucked off to Ouerea, then it makes perfect sense for a female unathi to develop Izweski/Ouerean ideals when exposed to ideas of "Hey, the daily beatings you receive are not normal. The terrible attitudes you get on the street is not normal. Traditionalists are awful people."

[Toska]

And guess what, the Izweski won the war. Their ideals would've conquered over The Traditionalist Coalition's ideals. There would've been remnants of Izweski ideals still in Moghes to this day. It's only been 8 years since then so unless every single Izweski fucked off to Ouerea, then it makes perfect sense for a female unathi to develop Izweski/Ouerean ideals when exposed to ideas of "Hey, the daily beatings you receive are not normal. The terrible attitudes you get on the street is not normal. Traditionalists are awful people."

 

The Izweski don't have Ouerean ideals. The reason Ouereans think the way they do is because of the human and Skrell that inhabited the planet with them. The Izweski still have the same social caste/gender superiority system that the Traditionalists do. The biggest point of contention between the groups is the rapid modernization of technology, that the Izweski were/are capitalizing on to subjugate the other major clans, because of human/skrell contact.

 

"These same anti-Izweski factions came to fear a future where a technologically powerful Izweski, backed by alien invaders, would brutally enforce a One World Government and destroy all concepts of Unathi tradition and honor."

 

While the Unathi of Ouerea follow most of the same social beliefs as their Moghean counterparts, they tend to be less volatile towards outsiders who are ignorant of their customs, especially since their world was formerly ruled by the Skrell and Humanity. The culture of humanity and Skrell have managed to influence Ouerean Unathi, embedding different cultural norms. There is a focus on individualism, with most Unathi being given the same chance as anyone else. There is still a struggle with a highly stratified society, but things are much more liberal than on Moghes.

Many of the original colonists started as patriots to the Izweski Hegemony, but many soon found themselves disillusioned with the distant home world tearing itself apart in war. Many of them became enamored with human and Skrell culture and ideals of democracy, equality, and liberalism; finding themselves resentful of their old lives on Moghes. Reintegration into the Hegemony has proved difficult as both planets try to reconcile these cultural differences.

 

This alone states that there is a cultural rift between the Hegemony and Ouereans. If their beliefs were the same, why would it be difficult for them to reintegrate together? Ouereans are essentially Unathi with human and skrell ideals.

[BurgerBB]

And guess what, the Izweski won the war. Their ideals would've conquered over The Traditionalist Coalition's ideals. There would've been remnants of Izweski ideals still in Moghes to this day. It's only been 8 years since then so unless every single Izweski fucked off to Ouerea, then it makes perfect sense for a female unathi to develop Izweski/Ouerean ideals when exposed to ideas of "Hey, the daily beatings you receive are not normal. The terrible attitudes you get on the street is not normal. Traditionalists are awful people."

 

The Izweski don't have Ouerean ideals. The reason Ouereans think the way they do is because of the human and Skrell that inhabited the planet with them. The Izweski still have the same social caste/gender superiority system that the Traditionalists do. The biggest point of contention between the groups is the rapid modernization of technology, that the Izweski were/are capitalizing on to subjugate the other major clans, because of human/skrell contact.

 

"These same anti-Izweski factions came to fear a future where a technologically powerful Izweski, backed by alien invaders, would brutally enforce a One World Government and destroy all concepts of Unathi tradition and honor."

 

While the Unathi of Ouerea follow most of the same social beliefs as their Moghean counterparts, they tend to be less volatile towards outsiders who are ignorant of their customs, especially since their world was formerly ruled by the Skrell and Humanity. The culture of humanity and Skrell have managed to influence Ouerean Unathi, embedding different cultural norms. There is a focus on individualism, with most Unathi being given the same chance as anyone else. There is still a struggle with a highly stratified society, but things are much more liberal than on Moghes.

Many of the original colonists started as patriots to the Izweski Hegemony, but many soon found themselves disillusioned with the distant home world tearing itself apart in war. Many of them became enamored with human and Skrell culture and ideals of democracy, equality, and liberalism; finding themselves resentful of their old lives on Moghes. Reintegration into the Hegemony has proved difficult as both planets try to reconcile these cultural differences.

 

This alone states that there is a cultural rift between the Hegemony and Ouereans. If their beliefs were the same, why would it be difficult for them to reintegrate together? Ouereans are essentially Unathi with human and skrell ideals.

 

I think this only proves how unspecific the lore is given how there are two completely different depictions of Izweski. In one section, Izweski are labeling the Traditionalists as savages for ignoring progress while in another they're apparently in a cultural rift despite their stance on the war that supported Humans and Skrell culture.

But let's pretend for a moment that Izweski had the same view of the Traditionalists. I absolutely refuse to believe that there isn't any sort of ideals of non-traditionalism given how poorly it has worked out in recent past, especially given how the Traditionalists are seen as dropping the first atomic bomb. In every single instance of real-life history where the current government is enforcing ideals that are detrimental, or seen to be detrimental, to the rights and freedoms of its citizens. It's how the liberal movement started in America, it's how Communism started in Russia.

 

Moghean Unathi are traditional Unathi, with the planet being their homewold. Historically culture varies across Clans which exist on the planet, but some customs and norms arch over nearly all Unathi universally.

 

"Varies across Clans" is very important. It means that I could make a clan from the top of my head that can enforce any vast array of ideals, as long as it's believable.

This clan I made, that my character belonged to, is a Traditionalist heavy clan that doesn't like social/political progress unless it benefits their social/political agenda. They're willing to let a woman learn how to read if it means that the things that are read would benefit their agenda. Like I mentioned, this happens all the time in reality.

[Toska]

I think this only proves how unspecific the lore is given how there are two completely different depictions of Izweski. In one section, Izweski are labeling the Traditionalists as savages for ignoring progress while in another they're apparently in a cultural rift despite their stance on the war that supported Humans and Skrell culture.

 

This isn't necessarily true, and I think it's more of a misunderstand if I'm honest. The Izweski call them "backwards savages" not because of their caste system, but because of their problem with technological advancements. They want control of the planet and used Skrell/human help to further this goal. That's it really. Yes there could be people who don't agree with the government, as you stated, but that doesn't mean they are going to break tradition to express this. That is what makes Unathi Unathi. Even the Ouereans respect old customs, they're just slightly more liberal and understanding than those on Moghes (which, again, has nothing to do with the Izweski and instead is because of humans and skrell). Heck, the Izweski even attacked human/skrell ships orbiting Ouerea because they wanted those people under their rule as well.

 

"Varies across Clans" is very important. It means that I could make a clan from the top of my head that can enforce any vast array of ideals, as long as it's believable.

 

The problem is that so far it's been a little far-fetched. That is what most have been pointing out. Not her clan so to speak, but some of the rest of it. As someone pointed out, it's odd she is ok with being a Guwan when it is the worst thing that can happen to an Unathi. It's odd that a female is allowed so much education, money, etc.

 

Outside the formal schools of the Untouched Lands, village and town shamans often remain the only source of education for many young unathi.

 

If she's visiting librarys (Especially one called "The Great Moghean Library" it is probably in Izweski territory. If this is the case, she is subject to Izweski rule right?

I know you said you like the lore, but hate how they fall under a single Archetype. I can respect trying to break the mold and do something different, but they are that Archetype for a reason. It's not because the lore is too loose, but because it is so specific that they are forced into similar behaviors across characters. It's what makes them them. Male characters are all generally going to be very honor-bound while females are milder and do not do fighting/listen to the patriarchy, etc etc. That is just how Unathi are.

[BurgerBB]

I think this only proves how unspecific the lore is given how there are two completely different depictions of Izweski. In one section, Izweski are labeling the Traditionalists as savages for ignoring progress while in another they're apparently in a cultural rift despite their stance on the war that supported Humans and Skrell culture.

 

This isn't necessarily true, and I think it's more of a misunderstand if I'm honest. The Izweski call them "backwards savages" not because of their caste system, but because of their problem with technological advancements. They want control of the planet and used Skrell/human help to further this goal. That's it really. Yes there could be people who don't agree with the government, as you stated, but that doesn't mean they are going to break tradition to express this. That is what makes Unathi Unathi. Even the Ouereans respect old customs, they're just slightly more liberal and understanding than those on Moghes (which, again, has nothing to do with the Izweski and instead is because of humans and skrell). Heck, the Izweski even attacked human/skrell ships orbiting Ouerea because they wanted those people under their rule as well.

 

"Varies across Clans" is very important. It means that I could make a clan from the top of my head that can enforce any vast array of ideals, as long as it's believable.

 

The problem is that so far it's been a little far-fetched. That is what most have been pointing out. Not her clan so to speak, but some of the rest of it. As someone pointed out, it's odd she is ok with being a Guwan when it is the worst thing that can happen to an Unathi. It's odd that a female is allowed so much education, money, etc.

 

Outside the formal schools of the Untouched Lands, village and town shamans often remain the only source of education for many young unathi.

 

If she's visiting librarys (Especially one called "The Great Moghean Library" it is probably in Izweski territory. If this is the case, she is subject to Izweski rule right?

I know you said you like the lore, but hate how they fall under a single Archetype. I can respect trying to break the mold and do something different, but they are that Archetype for a reason. It's not because the lore is too loose, but because it is so specific that they are forced into similar behaviors across characters. It's what makes them them. Male characters are all generally going to be very honor-bound while females are milder and do not do fighting/listen to the patriarchy, etc etc. That is just how Unathi are.

 

I think I did a pretty swell job answering everyone's questions in here and improving the application with people's concerns and queries. I'm taking the people's silence after I've answered questions as acceptance or indifference. To me this whole thing doesn't seem far fetched given how this very thing happens in reality and makes sense in the lore. I feel that it is only far fetched as no one has ever done something like this, probably due to players wanting to be unathi after seeing a unathi behave and display the typical tribal attitude typical in games with lizards in them. I don't think anyone reads the lore first and then wants to make a character because the lore inspired them to, like I did.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that she is okay with being Guwan. She isn't okay with being Guwan, that's part of the reason why she's running away and not facing death or retribution for something she believe she should not face death or retribution for.

Also that last part isn't true. There's actually an unathi religion that believes that in some cases male unathi can be trapped in a female unathi body and therefor be treated as a male, as I was told on discord.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Hello! Thank you for your application again. Wow, this one really blew up! I am going to run down as much as I can. There is a LOT to go over in regards to the feedback so this post is probably going to get a little dense.

I have always warned people that applying with a Guwan is harder than applying with a traditional Unathi. The recent changes in regards to Guwan and orphanages does not strictly shoehorn all Guwan into being convicted murderers, it was in response to Guwans who were just orphans but generally really cool guys, which made it very difficult to oppress them with any sort of justification. Guwans are meant to have some past crime, tragedy, or dishonor that haunts them or otherwise marks them out as exiles and untouchables. They have to have something to feel guilty about.

That is sort of still the line you are at right now. There's no real way to phrase this but: hitting your dad isn't really.... That big of a thing??? I mean it should definitely make other Unathi gasp and PDA each other about their astonishment and disgust and how they're literally shaking and their hands tremble as they write this, but will anyone else give a hoot? It is not even something being framed as a bad thing. She was abused and abused and finally struck back. If anything slapping her dad is an act of heroic defiance, not a dishonorable crime. I'd be sold 100% if she like, shoved him down a flight of stairs in a fit of rage and left him really really badly hurt, or otherwise did something more than a solid crack across the face. She doesn't have to kill the guy or anything, but you need something with weight that holds itself over her shoulders and that which there is little hope of being forgiven over. Yes assaulting your dad is Guwanable but a slap isn't really on the same level as genuine assault. Even if Guwans are trying to work past their misdeeds and be better people, they have to have hit rock bottom at some point.

 

However I think my biggest issue with the whitelist is the idea of a Guwan, who (to my understanding) are now pretty much fairly bad criminals, being hired as Security for a big company. Logically it doesn't make much sense to me for them to hire someone with a criminal background into a position where they have access to munitions and such.

 

This is a good point, but there is no real mention of a major criminal backstory. If she passed the cadetship training and the written exam, I don't see why a human run corporation would particularly care if she was a Guwan. Unless she straight up murdered her dad, which would be a little excessive. And that leads to a problem - if she did something worthy of becoming a Guwan then she wouldn't be qualified to be in security. This backstory would be better served in a less sensitive position.

 

Angsty outbursts would but little more than just.. angsty outbursts. Females especially are shoe-horned into a specific role in society (on Moghes anyway) and while they can want more or disagree with their family or beliefs it's unlikely they wouldn't just keep their head down and follow along regardless.

 

For as long as we have had patriarchal societies, we have had women trying to make their way regardless. There is no rule that says all Unathi must think X Y or Z. Unathi are as diverse as a species as humanity is. For a lot of cultural, social, and attitude aspects of the species I've tried to just lay the groundwork that you can build a unique character from. I am fine with hypothetically anything if you have a good justification for it and I can assume you're acting in good faith - outliers and rebels are just as much part of a society as the conformists.

 

I'm still not understanding how she has a fund to begin with. Females don't work on Moghes, and unless she is stealing it in general I'm not really certain where the credits are coming from. I wasn't questioning how much she was making, I was questioning how she was making credits period.

If it's via traditionally feminine duties like housework, cleaning, cooking, etc then I can see a female getting paid enough to save over time. Urbanization has for a long time been disrupting the strict feudal lifestyle of Unathi so a family having their daughters work part time at a little shop somewhere is fine with me, if you frame it in the vein of 50's American workplaces, basically.

 

"Universities bar women from attending"

This is true, but she isn't trying to get a doctorate in a major university. At the bare minimum the security officer qualification page just needs you to pass your cadet training and written exam. That is reasonable for a woman to get.

 

I like Unathi lore a lot, I really do, but I absolutely do not like how Unathi have to be seen as this one archetype when there's an entire culture (Ouerean) who have respect towards women like advanced cultures do. That might be the issue for you because a lot of people have issue with this character for the reason of "Oh it's not like most Unathi where they're not throwing spears, throwing insults at Guwan, and being a traditionalist."

 

I think this is a little like acting in bad faith. I don't think there is really an endemic problem of Unathi being all cookie cutter spear throwers on station. My Unathi playerbase is pretty diverse and pretty much everyone has some sort of subversion of some aspect of the species. You are sort of applying with the literal anti-thesis of everything a traditional Unathi is, on an application that is meant to show you understand the basics of traditional unathi. At every step you've chosen what 'subverts' the species rather than following the many, many openings and hooks I've littered the unathi wiki pages with that let you reasonable and justifiably buck the trend. Having some sort of connection to Ouerea is pretty much a rubber stamp that lets you get away with a lot (within reason) in terms of unathi backstory and upbringing. I've let a LOT slide because of Ouerean upbringings or influences....

 

I think this only proves how unspecific the lore is given how there are two completely different depictions of Izweski. In one section, Izweski are labeling the Traditionalists as savages for ignoring progress while in another they're apparently in a cultural rift despite their stance on the war that supported Humans and Skrell culture.

There's a word that you seem to have skimmed over, but it's the most important word in the entire sentence. Izweski PROPOGANDA.

Yes there are two depictions of the Izweski, that is intentional. There are a LOT of ways you could read the Izweski. The propoganda is intentionally hyperbolic because that's what propaganda is. It shows the extreme end of what Unathi were afraid the Izweski were up to. It wasn't just about technology - it was about a single clan embarking on a new brutal world order. The Izweski have a lot of precedent in throwing absolutely anyone under the bus if they get anything out if it.

Combined with the intentional open-ended "varies between clans" there is a huge swath of possibilities for character and clan development. You could not easily fit the entire Earth's 2018 opinion of, say, the United States into 2 neat categories and insist everyone believes one or the other. These aspects of unathi lore are intentionally messy because it was and remains a tumultuous time in Unathi society and everyone is still getting their bearings.

Now, in general Burger does a good job at defending his arguments and has been receptive to feedback. I am going to assume he's acting in good faith, but with everything I said I have to loop back to my very first comment:

Slapping your dad isn't really enough. I'd be sold if she did something actually shameful and abhorrent (that isn't any degree of actual murder) that would make her hesitate to confess to anyone.

[BurgerBB]

Jackboot had a conversation with Garn and realistically there is no feasible way that there can ever be a Guwan security officer as a Guwan conviction requires a i200 or i300 equivalent crime, and i200 and i300s pretty much disqualify you to become a sec officer.

Currently reworking the story right now to remove Guwan elements.

[BurgerBB]

Reworked the story. No more guwan cadet.

RIP.