[2 Dismissal] On synthetic policies and regulations

Synthetics are a special class of citizens in Biesel, they are treated differently which is reflected by some Biesel laws and the general idea is that they are (supposed to be) opressed

This however is not reflected in any way in station regulations so i would like for this stuff to be adressed and added to existing regulations' descriptions. It's kind of weird i have to ping IPC lore dev personally to find out that destroying an IPC is considered sabotage and not murder.

To understand how synthetics are supposed to be treated I need to get more insight into what is their actual status in Biesel which i hope someone will clarify for me. Are they considered property? Are they considered full-fledged citizens and are treated as such when they buy their freedom? Are they still considered objects and propety but owned by themselves when they buy freedom?

So the regulations to go through include murder, kidnapping and hostage taking, assault on head of staff, assault, minor assault.

Murder

I was told by the IPC lore dev that destroying the IPC chassis or a posibrain is considered sabotage. So i would like for a small clause to be added to the description of murder and sabotage to indicate the correct application.

For murder: "If the subject of a crime is an IPC see i213 - Sabotage"

For sabotage: "This regulation also applies for malicious destruction of an IPC" in the notes would suffice, however it might be time to revise the wording of the regulation itself (the description feels pretty weird)

This suggests that IPC is not a person but a thing which can be used as a base to look at other regulations

Kidnapping or Hostage Taking

Again as with murder since IPC is not a person but rather an object i feel it would be suitable to equate IPC kidnapping to Grand theft. IPC chassis and/or a positronic brain is a pretty costly device and would be well over regular theft in terms of collective worth. Changes would be the same as with murder, adding one-sentence clauses to Kidnapping and Hostage Taking and Grand theft regulations to reflect the specifics of IPC policies and laws.

Assault

The closest alternative to assault on an object would be sabotage. However punishment for sabotage and assault is almost exactly the same so it wouldn't make too much difference except flavour-wise

Assault on a Head of Staff

I have honestly no idea how to solve this one. Again i will need some clarification on whether IPCs are considered employees or rented property and can an object technically be a head of staff (on practice IPCs obviously can). My initial pitch would be to lower it to sabotage again. It seems to be a catch all regulation that fits any crime involving somewhat serious harm to IPCs.

Minor Assault

I would say this should be replaced with vandalism when it comes to IPCs. The vandalism wording would have to be slightly changed and respective clauses added to both regulations. As with assault and sabotage the difference between two charges is pretty minimal but having to pay 50 credits (approx 17$) less of a fine for punching an IPC instead of a human adds some flavour to the universe

+1

I like this idea. Either way we're going to force some clarification if IPC's are people or not.

+1 for the exact same reason as Asheram said above.

-snip-

I've already notified the relevant lore developers a day or two before that this needs to be clarified, especially covering the important conditions as being free/owned, posi destruction, chassis destruction and so on. So this may not be entirely necessary.

[mention]CakeIsOssim[/mention] and [mention]kyres1[/mention] can most likely post here on when they're done clarifying these aspects.

-1

IPCs are not living things. They are not comparable to a human, tajara, unathi, etc. They are objects, built by a company, programmed by someone.

Murder, kidnapping, assault... These apply to living, organic individuals, not toasters with a big processor.

Unless we equal IPCs to organics.

In which case, fuck that, time for a civil war.

-1

IPCs are not living things. They are not comparable to a human, tajara, unathi, etc. They are objects, built by a company, programmed by someone.

Murder, kidnapping, assault... These apply to living, organic individuals, not toasters with a big processor.

Unless we equal IPCs to organics.

In which case, fuck that, time for a civil war.

Reckon you're reading this backwards. The suggestion is in fact to not treat IPC's as people and make the regulations reflect that.

-1

IPCs are not living things. They are not comparable to a human, tajara, unathi, etc. They are objects, built by a company, programmed by someone.

Murder, kidnapping, assault... These apply to living, organic individuals, not toasters with a big processor.

Unless we equal IPCs to organics.

In which case, fuck that, time for a civil war.

Reckon you're reading this backwards. The suggestion is in fact to not treat IPC's as people and make the regulations reflect that.

Oh my, you are quite right

I think I jumbled everything as I read it lmao. I'll leave the post there for archival purposes.

Sorry, I did a dumb

I wish people would stop making policy suggestions about things already on the list of things to do ;_;

I will post a genuine reply soon. A day or two at most.

I wish people would stop making policy suggestions about things already on the list of things to do ;_;

I will post a genuine reply soon. A day or two at most.

It's been ten days. [mention]kyres1[/mention]

Reeee!

I'm kidding, I'm sure the lore devs get their priorities caught up.

About them IPC's? [mention]CakeIsOssim[/mention]

It's a little unfortunate that these distinctions are sort of happening in reverse; IPCs presently enjoy greater recognition as legal entities than they did in the past, and it makes more sense now than it did then for regulations to treat some of them like the rest of the crew. That said, they aren't there yet, and I know some people would like to make the distinction on paper.

We also don't have a clean system in place for discerning between IPCs that are entirely owned by the company and those that are somehow contracted to work there via an external owner or other means. To my mind, it would currently be easier to only make changes that can apply to all IPC characters. There's some thinking to do.

I'm adding a vote for dismissal in terms of the suggestion as presented, but can bring this up separately with [mention]CakeIsOssim[/mention] and [mention]kyres1[/mention] later on, if they have a specific vision for something similar. Right now, I think the way offenses against machine characters are interpreted is 'sufficient' pending further contribution from lore devs.

Synth lore team is a bit delayed to show their draft. What they are presently planning and what is shown to me is not the same as this suggestion, as it accounts for a number of different factors, which will be clarified upon release.

So since this suggestion isn't being implemented per say. I'm voting for dismissal.

Locking and archiving due to two dismissals.