Scheveningen

I'm not going to make a staff complaint over this. I do not understand how you get off trying to make changes like these and do not provide evidence nor well-reasoned rationales for why they want to implement a change that requires community feedback, despite that everyone else has to do this. Yes, posting false information and behaving like it is true is the kind of thing that discredits a PR. Just don't do it again, research and get evidence before making a claim as if it were true. You can quit accusing people of "just getting offended" for criticizing you any day now, because if this were at all true; Then why do you get mad and throw vitriol around like "stop pearl-clutching" when people say "no" to your suggestions? The sanest implementation to fix this issue is to make it so it is not "instant" of a tool, so you force it to have to process a whole unit of the toxin in order to mutate someone into a slime. Render its units per second to .005u processed per server-counted second, and boom, someone has upward of 200 seconds to get medical to remove the mutation toxin out of their system. Likewise this creates a timesink issue where an antagonist can't use this to inject themselves and then either immediately maul security or escape into the vents. It is fair and balanced in this method.

Alberyk used the monkey gene to transform me into a monkey. The code does not 'know' how to handle the monkey gene 'mutation'. This was always a sort of thing that genetics was supposed to fix, because ryetalyn clears most side-effects. You must toggle the block directly through genetics in order to demonkey someone.

You are utterly incorrect on that note. There is nothing in the code for ryetalyn that references reversing monkeyizing as part of ryetalyn's reagent functions. This is an absolutely unacceptable mistake to make, because you're making changes to something on the sole basis of false information. The monkey gene itself is used as a means to transform someone directly into a monkey, dependent on their species, but short of the methods listed below, ryetalyn does not fix this. The only way to reverse being a monkey as it stands is through wizard retransformations, cloning protohuman-switcheroo method, or genetics, none of which can be relied upon as an actual reliable solution. Eat these words straight away because short of a lot of painstaking effort from a department that may not even be staffed with people with the knowledge to reverse the damage from this, but the point is moot if you're largely concerned about a "permanent transformation" because this is what you're doing anyway, nevermind that you were so adamant in believing a gameplay behavior was at all true.

You guys need to stop using allegorical examples as if it's a solid argument. Just because you haven't seen somebody use it well doesn't mean it's impossible to be used well.

Monkeys cannot transform back with any medicine currently on the wiki. Genetics has been stripped barebones to the point where it'd be surprising to see if anyone actually manages to get the DNA analyzers back into a department and manage the components essential to doing work to reverse monkeyizing. You're essentially giving antag xenobios a punishment for daring to try to exploit the fruits of xenobiology for antagonistic purposes because you either got owned by RNG or you were a bystander to seeing people get owned by RNG. Or rather, essentially, you're taking away something useful from them for something they had nothing to do with directly.

No, the issue is that the toxins was administered and incorporated by an AI-driven vine mass WITH instant-sting administering in addition to BEING ABLE TO HOLD THOSE REAGENTS IN THE FIRST PLACE. Context is important. And you're going about this in the most foolish way.

So essentially this thread was born off the 1 in a million occurrence of RNG combining with something else even more problematic than this and not the inherent nature of this mechanic itself. I love the precedents we set with suggestion threads, but if what Prate said is true, we need to start scrutinizing suggestions now.

Not to mention how monkeys lose their ability to speak TCB and thus can't speak. They have to make gestures to be able to roleplay, whereas slimes telepathically speak to people.

Citation please! You are only so far making statements and establishing it as if it is true.

You haven't provided any objective reasoning as to why it isn't fit for an HRP server.

It is a lazy solution. I do not need 10 paragraphs to describe how this change is unnecessary, nor do I need an essay to describe how fallacious your reasoning is. ..and there's plenty 'HRP' about it, it has infinite potential for fun and conflict. You're taking on the most fundamental components of a slime's DNA structure and fashioning it into a tool to warp the DNA of other living beings into slimes. Being turned into a monkey is incredibly boring, because monkeys die if they get remotely sneezed on with force-based weapons. It's a tool used by antagonists, largely, to produce intelligent player slimes. And player slimes are INCREDIBLY fun and robust when used properly, moreso than monkeys and how limited they are. Why do you want to remove that? Because "muh HRP?" This is the pussywagon keys all over again. If we keep following this silly path of using 'muh HRP' as the sole justification for removing things there won't be anything left for people to enjoy using. You're taking a really fun tool out of the game just to do what genetics would already be capable of doing were it left in the game. Sliming yourself is actually something you can do as an antagonist currently to cause a lot of havoc and hilarity with slime reproduction if you wanted. Slime gameplay is seriously fun because you're mostly invulnerable to the typical methods people use against antagonists. Removing things just because it doesn't get enough use is not fun for the people who have yet to get antagonist in the xenobiology role. this isn't a reason to remove any mechanic from the game and replace it with something that makes using it worse off.

Yes, that is a concern. I do think extended should stay in the secret rotation no matter what tbh, as a default in case there weren't antagonists to run a functional gamemode.

He's saying it'll never happen when the PR goes through, not that it doesn't happen right now, it is what is this PR is seeking to fix

You're wrong there. You can make them in 10 minutes. You're also taking what makes xenobiology, xenobiology, by opting for a lazy solution to an issue that is hardly even a problem.

I suppose that's fair. As long as these suggestions are considered later down the line if the smaller changes implemented prove not as effective as controlling discussion for complaint threads.

Are tactical frames + planet/experimental core + damage increase upg. not powerful enough? They deal roughly 35 damage per shot outside a vacuum and the worst you spend is a diamond on the frame. Science can essentially make a lethal KA with only one mining shipment (as long as mining brought 5 diamonds minimum). Cool idea anyway, looking forward to the other stuff, but KAs have a lot of damaging abilities at the moment. If you plan on adding more versatile/utilitarian twists to their lethality then I don't mind it one bit.

The issue, however, is that the courtroom setting cannot be emulated within current policy at the moment because the complaint boards all behave more like a Roman Curia (or an American congress with its associated filibustering) than it behaves like an American courtroom as it should in your example. It's much more difficult to replicate the example you've given to function for the sake of between-screens handling of cases regarding things that happened over an internet game platform, which also begs the question if said effort is also worth the trouble investing all that effort into. In the case I gave in my OP, it's a much more streamlined and simplified manner of procedure. While it may provide concerns of abuse later down the line (a rare occasion to look forward to, at worst), it's a whole lot easier to enforce the rules on one staffmember getting caught abusing their power than it is to hand out forum warnings/bans out to 10 individual people who successfully derailed a thread with intense amounts of flamewarring.

The intention was to put the blame on certain members of the community blowing something out of proportion that it makes it difficult for staff to deal with something in a rational and critical way. Irrationality, ironically, cannot be challenged rationally, because the former individuals do not care about rational conventions or rules at all. I apologize if I made it seem like I said two different things at once, it wasn't the intention and I'll edit the sentiments to fit what I actually think. Honestly, I'd rather have the naysayers about this community not be given a platform to speak about their paranoia at all. As it stands we're already doing so by essentially allowing anyone to comment on a complaint "either if they were involved or they have something helpful to say", the latter case not having a very specific definition of 'helpful.' Not unlike how there's no definition for gank right now because of a rule oversight. Likewise, I'm adamant in believing this server's staff is different and the virtues/standards the staff are held to here are a far cry away from what X server is decried as. With good intentions and a record for better behavior than the 'mins on the other servers I know for sure this is an accomplish-able task. We all just need to be willing to try to make this a better community, but we can't do that by allowing the ones who actively attempt to make this environment more and more toxic to continue having a platform. Then we re-instill zero tolerance for bullshit as we always have. Being okay with being suddenly complacent with shittier and more toxic attitudes taking over the community is not the fate we should resign ourselves to. I hate being an activist for this sort of thing as much as anyone else likely would in my position because it's a headache to have to stand up when no one else will. I believe the change I'm calling for here would be meaningful and with net positives in the long term. Such as it always is, it's always an awkward hurdle short-term but it would definitely be worth it. If it ends up not being worth it then we revert to the previous system and you get to make fun of me for being wrong, I'd be fine with that. I just want an actual attempt to be made to correct the toxic attitudes. Not enough is being done right now aside from reacting to only the best possible opportunity. Heck no, the present isn't good at all! It's terrible to check the forums only to see the next 10 page complaint full of vitriol with the admin/mod staff being unable to do anything given how much crap is in it. It's better that we make an attempt to change the state of the complaint forums now rather than repeat it for the next year before it gets addressed again. The warning system doesn't really work either because it doesn't hold as much of a sting for performing deliberate bad behavior IC/OOCly as an actual ban does. I would know, and it definitely works to correct negative attitude.

I place more faith in the administrators of the server to be more rational and fair than its community. I have my doubts about them too at times, but the goal of this is not to worry as much about server politics as it is preserving the intended function of what complaints are supposed to do and what decisions are supposed to come of them. I trust the administration far more to weigh in on a specific issue and to be able to comprehensively investigate than what the peanut gallery often has to offer, yes. I will chance taking more than a bit of scorn in that belief. What value does a statement have, after all, if it is only designed to be said for the sake of setting whatever witch of the week the complaint boards seems to be set after, on fire? I have a firm belief that discretion is important to administrating, and so is giving the benefit of the doubt even to a party that may be guilty. We do not need more of this dogpiling behavior in the complaints anymore, they have proven to negatively compromise how administrators make decisions. Removing it entirely will make for a better OOC environment and will permit for this forum to have a better reputation than it being "the place you go to complain and watch other people explode through text." Complaints are strictly evidence-based and should have none of the over-complications often seen in comments to complaints. When that happens it just makes the administration want to put off dealing with the complaint even as it bloats with information and steadily gets more difficult to filter, while a terrible thing to do because it is essentially betraying a sense of duty, it is a very human thing to do to want to stay away from toxicity until it stops. Administrators are, unfortunately for them, human, and have identical thresholds of frustration and dealing with negativity just like the rest of us. If we can minimize this to better enable them to do their jobs, so be it. They're the ones with the responsibility to handle those complaints after all, not us. I'm sure in the far future when we finally make mechanics on Aurora for-profit at some point that we will need transparency. Now, however, I do not think the community finds itself privy to the business between player and admin beyond the absolute minimum necessary. I particularly love the idea of relegating discussion on such mediums, because it is within my fervent belief that the overall, often uninvolved community does not need to be involved in an issue between roughly 4 parties; the accuser, the accused, witnesses and the investigating staff member. Nobody else really needs to know. Direct call-out threads masquerading as complaint threads do not work to improve behavior, considering how call-out complaints aren't intended to improve player/staff behavior, but rather are intended to shame them and devalue them. Call-out culture itself does not lend itself to rational, well-reasoned debate, it almost always leads to the feeling of either being the persecutor or the persecuted. Complaints should not manifest themselves in the latter way, and yet it does. Why? Because we all enable it to, and actively participate in it to exacerbate its effects. The worst that happens under this hypothetical system is that you can only guess what information damned or justified someone. I will gladly take this over the present implications of toxicity in how complaints function. Damn me to hell if you like, as I do believe such.

So, I've had an epiphany after discussing this with someone, and it's not a great one seeing as how I've also been party to essentially why the complaints system is not functioning well to ensure accountability for other players. The Complaints boards are effectively nonfunctional because they essentially promote angry, shitposty, lynch mob-type conversations regarding what a player either did or didn't do during a round or over an OOC format. There are reasons for this. 1. There is little to no enforcement in terms of how the forum rules are supposed to function. Some members of the community maintain that the complaints system essentially enables members of the community to establish smear campaigns meant to devalue other members of the community for their contributions. I cannot count the amount of times "Oh but you did X in the past so I don't think you should have that much credit" comes up as a means to deliberately deflate others for having an inch of positivity and pride about themselves. 2. Certain staff, whether on the moderation team or on the dev team or on the lore team, are not consistently held to the same rules, but neither are members of the community. The community sees this and thinks it's okay to replicate when it is clearly not. 3. Whitelisting staff have removed the command whitelist of an individual on the singular basis of having a lot of complaints, rather than whether or not judging their behavior was in any way wrong after checking the logs on-server and the context in which certain acts on the server were performed. The fact this happened even once shows the staff essentially took a complaint as fact without a heavy investment of looking into whether the situation was bad as it was made out to be. As soon as that got addressed, they restored the person's whitelist because of a "mistake" in their evaluation, if it can be summed up to only a single wrongdoing there. Are we supposed to trust the whitelisting team to do their job if this sort of thing happens? Edit: To clarify, it's because of how insidiously 'dug-in' the current etiquette for the complaint forums are. They're beginning to affect staff's ability to rationally make decisions because of this. 4. The threat of a complaint has been used numerous times by several members of the community as a threat in LOOC to other players if they commit to a certain action. This is a toxic behavior pattern but it is one enabled by the current state of the complaint boards. But I will be pretty frank, because I know #3 happened because nobody wants to seriously handle the forums for complaints given how the system exists as-is. So I don't necessarily blame them, but I seriously think it's time to take some actual steps in the direction of allowing the administration to establish an actual investigation rather than wait for the next dumpster fire of a complaint thread to put itself out. So rather than keeping on with this current trend of how the complaints system essentially enables the current nonsense we see in complaints, here are a couple (rather proactive) solutions to fix this problem: I.) Within the player complaints and staff complaints sections, anyone can create a thread, but only moderation staff can post replies or comments in it. II.) The expected reply from the first staff member is that they are taking the case as an investigation. The same post should encourage other witnesses (including the reported player/staffmember) to the instance to DM them through discord or PM them through the forums with any evidence pertaining to what the initial complaint topic references. III.) After cross-referencing server logs, testimonies and any other evidence, the staff member should conclusively decide what happened and whether or not any action should be taken. Review with other staff if necessary. After, speak to the 'offending' player/staffmember to clarify any issues in a forum PM or over Discord, whichever they prefer. IV.) The reviewing staffmember is then expected to make a follow-up post based off of their own discretion. They can either make a simple post clearing the individual of any wrongdoing or one that states the subject of the complaint was guilty of the aforementioned behavior. V.) The staffmember should then be expected to close up the complaint in the usual timeframe before it is locked and considered resolved. What does this fix? A.) It totally neutralizes the peanut gallery. I'm guilty in participating in this, but I honestly think that if you want to prevent the peanut gallery from happening at all, you either need to punish people for doing it or neutralize the ability for them to do so. The staff really hasn't done the former, so there's a fair deal of evidence to show already that reactive measures do not work. B.) It prevents complaint threads from reaching beyond 2 pages in terms of insanity to parse through and deal with. C.) It allows complaints to be investigated with the same amount of upheld integrity as the CCIA have for their IC reports forum, without having to worry about moderating the complaint boards. D.) Given the above, it allows complaints to be resolved in much more expeditiousness than what we've commonly seen in the complaints. What are some issues with this? A.) Muh freeze peach, I guess. Does your right to post meanspirited implications about how other should be shut out from playing this server, somehow rank higher than the need to keep the complaint boards sanitized of toxicity and enabled to be actually functional? I don't think so. This is essentially the only ethical problem that really exists here, but the complaint boards should not be meant to enable anyone who has absolutely nothing to add to a thread to do so in such a manner. The goal of the complaints is to take evidence into account to make fair and as unbiased as possible judgments. Complaint threads should never go down into a 5-10 page shitshow where all that is contained within it is opinions and none of them matter. In short, complaints should be resolved strictly by evidence-based decision-making and nothing more. The ability to add fluff like "It's no secret this user and I have not gotten along" should not be possible at all. With the system listed above, you can essentially add far more to an investigation of a possible rule-break by DMing the assigned staffmember with the necessary information and enabling them to do their job with zero strings attached.

How much of an issue is that really exclusive to Drago, tho, considering the PRs on the last half of page 1 and 2? I don't really have an issue with this application. There's not really a metric somewhere to measure what competency level you need with DM code to be on a developer team, but the applicant has made meaningful and decent changes so far as a contributor. I don't see why not.

Do you have any specific examples you could cite as more aesthetically pleasing and more functional records?

i don't think the community is privy to knowing who was banned for what, i'm sorry to say, unpopular of an opinion as it is.

to my knowledge @Yonnimer was the one who handled this case and since it was handled in-round already... whats the point of the complaint?

Looks fantastic. The mech shouldn't be locked behind an admin armory tbh. All it takes is 2-3 ion blasts and a mech's navigation is completely decimated for the entire round.