Jupiter Storm

Thank you for the reply! I am actually really glad you were able to pick out parts of the story because I definitely did finish and flesh it out in a rush after so much procrastination. xD This part, I really appreciate you doing that, and I feel a bit embarassed now. I earnest I chose it slightly suspecting it wasn't exactly habitable, which is why they had the scouts going outside looking for underground water sources and old pockets of food stores - and it seemed like (from what was written) the camp had been in-use since the war albeit on a smaller scale. THIS part, I am going to outright change and I'll post the changes. I have too much of a habit of going 'dark' with my favourite character stories. It was based on at the time, from what I'd been reading, a misinterpretation of how the Hegemony viewed refugees given that they were always too willing to turn them away or just shoot them off into space and never worry about them again. In retrospect, it makes absolutely no sense, and I think it will help to provide better context for later in the backstory if the work simply entails actually giving refugees relief and guiding them towards the camp where they can be shuttled off to a more major starport. I actually didn't know they'd been added very recently, sorry about that! I will definitely change the wording here, from a 'warrior's death' to something that suggests more... 'Embarassment' and 'impropriety' at someone of a higher social standing being seen to 'require rescue' from somebody far weaker than themselves. The debt of honour is still there, but alternate language is used to cover up the fact that Bhorze is actually very grateful - a personality quirk for a more bombastic knight rather than a rule of thumb. Given that I'm going to iron out the story earlier to something that makes a little more sense in the context of Unathi culture, I will edit it to focus on him buying into the ideals of self-sacrifice and protection of others, rather than being interested in glorifying himself - it will be a journey of self-acceptance rather than redemption, with someone who is essentially fighting the urge to overcome the 'shame' of having been considered weak in the past, trying to come to terms with 'other' reasons for helping others. Which leads me onto... I completely understand that! So I have a better idea, for that part. He will NOT get into fights, with other crew, so frequently (unless they literally, go really hard and say something absolutely offensive), instead he will be practicing the OTHER honourable tradition of using words to placate others. (Which is something the story mentions he failed miserably at in the past). When I mentioned this aspect of his personality, I actually had good intentions in mind - the potential for hilarious practical jokes on him with people setting him ridiculous tasks that cannot possibly be achieved. So all that angry energy would be transferred into being so utterly determined to achieve the task, rather than used against others. But I will edit this part too and specify that! Instead of focusing on physical challenges, I will add another aspect of his personality where he cannot refuse aid to any member of crew asking for assistance - for example if they need money, they get money from his pocket. If they need something given to them (which wouldn't be illegal for them to have) then he'll go out of his way to find it. It would also make for a nice piece of exploitable information, allowing antagonists the potential to 'recruit him' if they are able to portray themselves as somebody on the run, in dire need of shelter. As long as they don't roleplay it all shady and the like. I know right? xD No, but seriously, that's only a recent appearance having over the last two years had access to a proper diet and training program making him kind of look, 'dwarfish'. Because at the end of the day, even small people can grow 'out', they just can't grow 'up'. As I said I'll be making all of the above edits to the story very soon and hopefully it'll be a-okay! I'm very glad to have such detailed feedback because it helps me to feel like a have a more fleshed-out character too!

BYOND Key: Jupiter Storm Character Names: M.I.St.R.E.S.S. / Sooty / Elijah Kraay / Storm Surge / Oksana Al'Mhuzharri Species you are applying to play: Unathi What color do you plan on making your first alien character: Red (Obviously) Have you read our lore section's page on this species?: It was honestly what got me hooked on Unathi in the first place, in spite of my uneducated and unenlightened self having felt rather 'meh' about them in the past. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + INSPIRATION FOR PLAYING UNATHI + because i want an inside pp Typically my characters are either innately malicious (read: Mistress / Kraay) or easy-going and job oriented (Storm / Oksana / Sooty). I want to try something new, a 'Feudal-esque' character with very real traditional values that define a large portion of their personality, and who portrays themselves as a sort of 'knightly / religious figure'. It was actually discovering this wish that led me to Unathi, as I decided that trying to play an IPC or a Human with these values would be very... Well, cheesy, it would be out of place with the setting. Whereas for Unathi, this is their bread and butter, it's what they live for! Warrior traditions, honour, traditional values, these things all form the basis for Unathi culture. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + KEY ROLEPLAYING NOTES + ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + CONCEPT AND BACKSTORY + Character Name: Gwain Stohesz Age: 26 yrs || 03 : 01 : 2435 Role: Shaft Miner >>> (Possibly, with development) >>> Xenoarchaeology Clan Stohesz (and Early Life): Middle Years on Moghes (and Post-War): Bhorze, the Pious: Journey of a Kataphrakt Hopeful to Tau Ceti: General Description: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ What do you like about this character? I think the amount I have written by now probably outlines better than any explanation I can offer as to why this character will surely be a favourite of mine. I have spent a great deal of time developing the backstory, reading through the rich Unathi lorebase and immersing myself fully within the concept. I don't -usually- play male characters, but for the concept of a wandering squire hoping to become a true knight, as per ancient medieval legends, it just fits far better! How would you rate your role-playing ability? I wouldn't call myself a role-player so much as a writer. I love to create narratives and settings, and support an interesting story for both myself and other people. With that said... Probably a 7/10. >_> Notes: I wrote much of this in a complete daze, as I've been procrastinating over this app for a long time and I just wanted it finished today. I welcome feedback in spades to allow me to better refine the story if it doesn't quite check out. Now I'm going to rest my brain and leave the matter in your hands!

I know ShesTrying can roleplay, so I can echo what's already been said, however the whitelist apps do not purely exist to rate a person's roleplaying ability, they exist to provide an overview of your understanding of the lore behind the race you want to play as. Now I actually had to read Vaurca Lore a bit to properly help in this regard, and I am sympathetic here because having just been trawling through the Unathi for several days, I managed to read everything there was on Vaurca in a morning, so I don't really blame you for the sparse detail per se. What I think a Lore Developer will want to see (obviously they'll comment themselves later but this might save you time)... - Some reference in your character's backstory that shows you understand what the C'thur Hive actually are, their relationship with the galaxy at large and how being a member of that Hive makes you different to say, a Zo'ra, or a K'lax (and there is a difference, I found it). - A short piece added in that provides some reference to show you know what Sedantis I was like, and what it means to the Vaurca race. I am pretty sure every single Vaurca who experiences VR is given a thorough grilling on their homeworld, given that the species were responsible for its destruction and they were nostalgic enough to carry with them the memories and keepsakes of creatures and plants that lived there, as well as samples of its rock. - Lastly, there is a lot of reference to Voa's personality, but... I feel it's missing one of the core, key aspects of being a Vaurca, which is that everything you do, everything you are, is FOR your Queen, and for your Hive. You have written a lot about what she likes, but there's almost nothing said about... Any sort of pride in serving her Hive. Not one of her 'thoughts' ever drifted towards her Queen, which is like the central focus of a Vaurca's mindset. If at least two of these things are added in, I'll gladly +1 it because I know you can roleplay!

Disclaimer: Yes, I understand why they were removed - to reduce the insane power of the A.I., and give antagonists another place to hide, but surely they can be drawn down elsewhere, and not here. I will explain why. The Construction Level serves as part of a main thoroughfare, with the two elevators directly adjoining it. Why is this an issue, you may ask? Because it is one of the 'problem areas' where Blobs will tend to spawn, and when they do, it shuts down access to both elevators indefinitely (and before you say no, it doesn't - yes, it does, because using them depressurizes any hallway they come into contact with). This continues until the Blob has been destroyed and repairs have been made. No issue, right? Handle it just like any other Blob. Therein lies the second second problem... The lack of Cameras on the Construction Level prevents the A.I. from pinpointing the location of the main core, leaving people trying to deal with it operating on guesswork alone, given the size that Blobs can grow to, as well as the way in which the Construction Level's hallways are made, restricting the movement of Engineers attempting to deal with it. Okay, so they can come around from the Mining Airlock instead? Sure, but they still need to know where the main core is, before they can set up wires outside to enable the emitter. You could alternatively get Mining involved, but a competent Miner is not always an option, similarly a competent Researcher who can provision a KA that can deal enough damage to it is not always an option. The A.I. - or anybody with access to a camera console - can provide guidance and pinpoint the biohazard and assess the damage to prioritize and coordinate repairs, focused on bringing said thoroughfare back online. Again, you could argue, well I could totally think of a thousand ways to deal with that, and you'd be right. YOU can, but not everyone can, and the value of guidance should not be underestimated at all. Because in a similar vein, a savvy engineer who knows all the tricks of the trade is not always an option, and they need guidance - that's where I come in. Even Veteran Engineers still die to blobs... So... Here is what I propose... Either... - Remove the construction level as a spawn point for blobs altogether, or lower it somewhat so they cannot destroy both elevators. - Put the cameras back, they were fine where they were before. As a compromise, remove some cameras elsewhere? I'm sure this has already been planned. - Add a means of getting to and from the surface that does not involve elevator use and does not require access to Maintenance that most jobs lack. Please do consider this, really seriously. I am not a powergamer, I'm not asking for the whole world, I'm just asking for a means to better handle issues prevalent within the only thoroughfare currently accessible to all crew. I am asking this so that a single random event does not shut down the capabilities of other people playing the round if you happen to lack certain people who know what they're doing. Thanks.

This is very true, it is an area of lore that is under represented entirely, so I'll give a +1 :3 Not just for that but the custom holosprites are good and it'd be great to see some uniqueness in pAI popping up around the station.

@AmoryBlaine Also sorry, I forgot one thing. Would you PERCHANCE be willing to add a re-sprite of the mining RIG to this? I don't know how many people will agree but the proportions on it make you look like a mix between a fat clown and a mole.

I actually like the yellowish-green, cargo-related roles in real tend to have Hi-Vis stripes or patterns woven into their uniforms due to the nature of their work, i.e. load lifters moving around, cranes etc. It looks very professional. No matter the new colour, these options look great though, the current setup for Cargo is... ummmmm... They look like greytiders but worse because of the shorts. xD

It's heavily implied in the A.I.'s lore and lawsets that it understands the concept of authorized and unauthorized personnel, and what unauthorized personnel are capable of doing with things they should not have access to. Beyond this though, I am still a huge fan of mechanical nerfs that stop them from detecting antagonists so easily, unless they're actively tracking one who's really pushing their luck and doing a lot of naughty things at once in a short space of time. Something that myself and Errant do quite a lot already is wait a certain amount of time before announcing alarms set off by antagonists (within reason, if it's early in a round, but if their gimmick is underway and it's a pretty loud murderboney one they don't get a free pass).

The unwritten rule of narrative writing and progression of a story, which isn't the reason a lot of people play it would seem. I don't think it's even possible to write down a precise guideline to follow, since the art of making sure a story flows and a balance of power between good / evil is maintained is a nuanced art that takes time and careful nurturing to develop (which as the A.I., you can actually decide rather readily in a round, you're certainly an RP-enabler with a huge truck-ton of weight to throw in either direction). I too am dissappointed to see a quick dismissal but it is what it is, since the rumours are as previously mentioned non existent even if a problem DOES exist which leads me onto... Like I'd said earlier, somebody needs to acknowledge that there is a bit of a serious issue if people can hear these things and take them seriously. I and several other people have had members of staff and developers fully capable of effecting these changes straight-faced tell us that it's going to happen, and have gone on to argue the case and present some very valid reasoning behind their logic. I understand that for those people, it's not a big deal, because the role is just a bit of a 'joke' to them, they don't really care because it's not the focus of their favourite lore-set, but for people who are actually passionate about the roleplay and the concept, rumours about big changes are a scary thing to hear and it is honestly not okay for any member of staff to go around saying that kind of stuff and lending it serious credence, and then expect it just to be brushed off? I don't think I'm being unreasonable or rude in saying this, I'm hoping someone will see where I'm coming from here, which is the base reason why I even began performing my 'tests' and also posted this thread. >_> I actually specifically chose not to do the thing, as you know - as part of my experiments. And the result... Yeeeeeah... It goes to show one of two things, either... #1 - Some members of the Security community - perhaps even large portion of it - are either too lazy to coordinate and scan for themselves, or lack sufficient understanding of the tools and personnel at their disposal in order to do so... OR......................... #2 - There is a hard-line acknowledgement by the Security community that without the A.I.'s assistance, they find it very difficult to perform their roles effectively. Which, once again, points toward just one of the A.I.'s massive suite of functions it offers that actively empowers the crew to deal with multiple, complex situations at once - something that members of Command would find exceedingly difficult when they CANNOT be in multiple places at once, no matter how effective they are as leaders. And that's not even taking into account the other conveniences and roleplay experiences that the A.I. can provide the crew such as those mentioned by @Naelynn and @Xelnagahunter - particularly teaching newer people, acting as an encyclopedia of 'how do I do this thing I never heard of before'. Talking somebody with OOC knowledge through a process they do not know ICly, and performing most of the complex functions for them, in order to fill a dire need that the station lacks at the time (one of the few exceptions to this is surgery and the more practical side of engineering). (I highlighted this because it's a seriously overlooked function that a lot of Sci-Fi stories with A.I. characters include them doing. And it's so important, particularly when everybody else is dead and you want to stand some kind of chance at surviving without breaking the server rules.) Or simply just providing other roleplaying platforms and a fixed point of neutral discussion for anybody who feels lonely and can't seem to click with the crew today.

Thank you for the replies to this thread, I think it's worth mentioning that I, strictly speaking, don't want to see the A.I. whitelisted either? Merely, I am throwing the feelers out there by way of a potential compromise to avoid the 'other' thing that the rumours suggested. Honestly, that stuff gets really scary - I know there are a lot of people who are really indifferent and only see A.I. as a tool and w/e, but for players who are passionate about it, and enjoy playing it, and want to make actual characters out of it, rumours can be extremely unpleasant to hear. When a head of staff straight-faced tells you, "Soon. I'm removing it. Don't worry, it'll still be available from Robotics." - what are you supposed to think? I know BygoneHero has had a similar experience to this and actually ended up arguing about it without being told "Okay stop, it was a joke dude." I know that there exists a following of players who truly, truly despise the role, and who disagree on a personal level that it should even be a part of roleplay, but... I just can't wrap my head around that, I've always been down with a 'live and let live' policy. And as I said, Whitelist was a compromise for that, to add more wheat and less chaff. Not that I personally am really 'eager' to see it happen. From what I recall, other balancing options were suggested as well, and maybe this is the place to discuss them while the topic is being looked at? I had some of my own: - I know that Paradox wanted to draw down the number of cameras further to give a few more 'hiding places in plain sight', so to speak. - Add a 3-minute or 5-minute delay for Alarms to appear in A.I. and Borg logs, but still make them immediately appear on consoles if somebody is bothering to manually check these, i.e. Engineering or Security. - Only allow crewmembers to be tracked on cameras if enable their Tracking Beacons on their Suit Sensors, meaning that anybody who wants to use the A.I. as a "follow me and give me access" service, will get exactly what they want, and anybody who doesn't want to use the A.I. and prefers a bit of anonymity cannot be tracked in the conventional manner. Naturally Space Carp, Cavern Dwellers and Spiders can still appear on cameras normally, so that the A.I. can point them out to people and make Sec's lives easier clearing out mobs before they become a problem. One more thing worth mentioning - if the idea of whitelisting makes people uncomfortable, maybe that's an issue with how whitelists are viewed? There seems to be an opinion in the community that 'whitelisting' a role inherently means you just won't get it? It doesn't, it just means that it's not immediately accessible to you unless you're passionate enough about a nuance of roleplay that you're willing to put in a little bit of effort. We certainly have enough active Lore Devs that you won't end up waiting weeks upon weeks for it. But like I said, I don't specifically 'want' a Whitelist. I'm merely throwing out potential compromises without completely changing a role that some of us truly enjoy. I have always said this, too. A lot of people who have Command Whitelists (won't name names here) have absolutely no talent for communicating and coordinating with others, no listening skills and seem to become easily daunted by rapidly developing situations. Anybody who will ever claim that A.I. doesn't prepare you for keeping a cool head while being spammed with radio logs and multiple situations that require timely responses and coordination has either not played it, or hasn't been passionate enough when playing it to do the job properly.

I realize this has probably been suggested before and failed, but I have several good reasons for revisiting the topic, due to the current environment, if I may? The Context: Partly this is based on certain rumours that have been thrown around regarding an A.I. rework (or removal) essentially placing them as a 'constructable' module in Robotics. I am assured that these rumours are just, exactly that - however one of the points that was made during one example of said rumour was really valid, so it almost made sense that it was going to happen: All of these are really good points, though regarding the A.I.'s utility is up for debate. The point is, these rumours became so prevalent that I had begun to take steps in modifying M.I.St.R.E.S.S.'s own suite of available functions, altogether refusing to note trespasses, observe the activities of non-crew and refusing to track people for any reason other than medical emergencies. Along with this, I was logging how badly this disrupted the round and copying the relevant Game ID's to post here, as evidence backing a suggestion at a later date. Furthermore, I have also been logging how much the activities of other departments are inhibited by the lack of A.I. involvement (heavily, so far) - I am continuing to do this, so that if anyone asks for the research I have been performing I can provide evidence later... But it's no longer strictly relevant. So, to the point at hand! As I said, all of the points that were made regarding A.I. are very good ones, but the salient issue seems to be, to me, with the propensity of players to powergame and shut down antagonist gimmicks almost instantly. Not to mention how horrendous some Malf rounds can be - and when you see people mass cryo'ing as soon as it becomes clear the A.I. is rogue, there's a serious issue which cannot be ignored. I have done it myself - I have been horrified at how completely I've destroyed gimmicks in the past, and every time it's happened I draw myself down a little bit, or take a break and re-evaluate how I play the A.I. One round springs to mind in particular, where a Raider team breached the Command Docks and set off an air alarm, and I reported this - everything was locked down and the team just shot each other after arguing. It was so upsetting to see and I felt genuine remorse, both ICly and OOCly. Why Whitelist the A.I.? Firstly, I'm sure the issue has been discussed already by staff regarding the current issues caused by A.I. who push that little bit too hard. Particularly of late, where a large number of malf rounds have gone absolutely horribly and haven't been fun for anybody. Even if the idea was rescinded before, it seems a good time to ask the rest of the community what they think again - given that these rumours of reworking it are spreading, untrue as they may be. Secondly, as was stated, the issue is with the players handling the A.I. Yes, it's a very powerful role, yes, it has the ability to entirely alter the dynamic of a round. This is why Command is whitelisted - due to the effect that their decisions have upon a round... Right? Given the ways in which the A.I.'s abilities (even unmalfed) can be used to restrict people heavily, you want somebody responsible and mature in the driving seat. ... And yes, I'm well aware that there are some people who will say, that rules you out, Jupiter, because of the kind of A.I. I play. The idea still stands, and I'm willing to be judged the same way as everyone else. In Summary, doing what the rumours 'suggest' doing would not actually remove any of these issues, they'd merely delay the activation time of an A.I. Frankly this would just be frustrating for people who are more passionate about A.I. and like to actively roleplay and try to improve a round using their vast knowledgebase and abilities. If you Whitelist it - you can ensure you get people who are vetted and experienced with Laws, Station Systems, Communicating with others well, etc. If they fall out of line? Remove it, they can't play. Make them apply again, or blacklist them more harshly! I want to see a healthy move in the right direction to change A.I. from a Low RP tool designed to hammerblow antagonists and crew alike, into another kind of character, which I am sure many Synthlore Developers would be passionate about seeing as well. There are so many things that an A.I. can do, if played by someone passionate, who likes to facilitate roleplay and learning for others, beyond simply opening doors and bolting them shut. Edit: One point I forgot to note - which is actually central to this entire argument - the suggestion of Whitelisting the A.I. places power over who gets it into the hands of the Synthlore Developers who are interested in promoting quality synthetic roleplay and characters that enrich rounds, as WELL as moderators who will assess the maturity of person and their capabilities in self-restraint.

Oh really? That would be a really neat change. Ultimately the goal of this is have more mitigation on the round impact if it happens so yet, I'd be totally down with a Tcomms move!

But hear me out on this, if it's such an issue why not remove motion sensors from certain other areas? If the A.I. is such as an issue to antag gimmicks, why not take out the motion sensors in the Armory, for instance? I think the point of this has been missed slightly so I'll try and re-phrase it. The whole reason I'm suggesting a Motion Alarm in the engine room, nowhere else is not because I think anything is underpowered, I'm suggesting it because of the round-ruining effects of the engine being overloaded and exploding as a result of griefing. Or, in the instance of antaggery using it as a distraction, giving engineers a bit more warning that something's up so they have a bit more time to do something. Depending on how badly somebody screws with the core, you can sometimes have only, 1-2 minutes to try and resolve it, which ultimately would end with ejecting it. I'm not asking for more motion alarms, I'm asking for just one, moved to a place where people can really de-rail and ruin a round without much effort or knowledge on their part. Does that... Change anything? ?

I agree with a nerf on their HP, drones are already very difficult for regular crew to deal with due to their size and the typical habit of drone players to zip in and out of doors or crouch inside the hatches and shoot from them. Could I also recommend perhaps preventing drones from using items while hiding in door hatches? Or making it impossible for them to occupy the same tile as doors? Perhaps the hatch ports them to the other side of the door, and such.

A really simple change, exactly what it says! The reason for this is purely due to the typical size of Engineering meaning leaving one person to continuously monitor the engine is super difficult - even the A.I. cannot constantly watch it due to the number of tasks they usually have to deal with. The Engine Room is one place where it's nice to have a bit of warning every time someone walks in there due to the sheer effect any tampering can have on the round - particularly during Extended, for example b2U-baGx. Even for antag stuff, they are still required to ahelp before messing with the core - so a Motion Alarm still serves as a guard against griefers and gives Engineers a fair chance to run in and rectify any potential issues before the whole thing explodes. If not, I guess a cunning Engine Tech or Chief Engineer can install a Proximity Sensor in the main camera overlooking the emitter but it just makes so much sense to have it as part of the station's standard setup. Bump if you agree?

That's fine, I've said my bit. Everything above is pretty heavily stated, luckily I know you're wrong about me so I don't mind, but anyway - there was a reason a head of staff staff member saw fit to bwoink you, and a lot of other people understood that reason. I was just trying to help you understand it.

Soooooo first of all for the sake of posterity it's worth mentioning that I'm not particularly salty about the attack, I know that some people find it difficult to discern the difference between a murderboney A.I. and one that just wants to promote roleplay in a round on low pop where the crew would have had no feasible way to stop it - particularly given the sort of Malf AI rounds we've had recently where an emergency shuttle is pretty much always called. The assassination of the 'queen' in her 'court' was, as a concept, very amusing. And of course as a synthetic she has nothing in the way of rights and given that I purposefully announced to the crew from the get-go that I was unlawed there was plenty of room and time for escalation, even if I was never a recipient of said escalation. My issue with this Staff Complaint is that regardless of not feeling upset about what you did - it was very poor conduct - not necessarily from an IC standpoint, but on an OOC level for reasons I am about to outline. And Drwago does not deserve this sort of response for repimanding you for valid hunting again, for reasons I am about to outline. 1. This is actually taken broadly out of context, and admins glancing over the logs will be able to readily confirm that the core was in fact, open to anybody in order to facilitate RP with the antagonist, myself - 'Freedom' and 'Independence' or 'SLF' or 'Synthetic Rights' were never thrown around by Mistress, and she repeatedly stated that she was going to lose her power in about 2-3 hours. The characters promoted to higher ranks were not chosen because of their disposition towards synthetic rights but because of their willingness to run along with the gimmick. You saw a preference towards IPCs because you wanted a reason to suspect that the A.I. had ill intentions toward the crew. This aside, yes the A.I. did give free run of the station to anyone who supported her. That is against the law. Again though, you weren't bwoinked because of the justification for your actions, you were bwoinked because of the way you executed them. 2. Once more, I think that you only saw what you wanted to see in order to justify a valid hunt. Rather than interpreting this response as 'If I am attacked, I will fight back and you really won't get very far at all', you decided to interpret this as, 'If the crew so much as sneeze in my general direction I'm going to nuke the station'. Drwago - and many of those roleplaying in the core who probably agree that this Staff Complaint doesn't seem very fair, is thinking more along the lines of... Your character was never at any point, not once nor ever, given a reason to suspect that the A.I. ever wanted to hurt anybody. Because really? I just wanted to RP and give everyone something interesting to do for a few hours until my antag turn was over. If the logs are carefully examined you will note that the A.I. specifically stated a number of times that nobody was going to die, and that this wasn't a 'good day' for fighting - eluding to the fact that it was low pop and the crew currently on manifest were not adequately equipped to deal with murdermalf. 3. There was no indication towards me that you had hostile intent. Now, ICly speaking, this is a really intelligent move, and something that an assassin would employ in a realistic scenario. Thing is? OOCly it was just cheap and lame - and THAT is why you were bwoinked. I had not activated any powers or used anything against the crew whatsoever. Beyond this? I'd opened the core to people to come and get some antag interaction rather than stealth malfing, hence why the turrets were down as well, otherwise everyone visiting would've been killed. Consider this. In a real scenario in a game NOT governed by logs and streams of text where it's very hard to discern what's going on when it gets a bit spammy, your character Oscar Easter just kind of waltzes his way into the core without announcing his presence, armed to the teeth. You trip the motion sensors and make your way through several doors. An Artificial Intelligence not trying to make sense of game logs sees you standing there, without so much as a 'how do you do'. What happens next? Forcefields, lockdowns, Easter-flavoured swiss cheese. Along with everybody else in the core because turrets do not discern friend from foe. In summary, what I'm getting at here: ICly - the execution was very clever and made sense. Problem is, in the interest of 'protecting the crew', Oscar Easter actually almost killed them, because clearly what was going on in his mind was "if the A.I. is attacked, it's going to blow up this station." - IF THAT IS WHAT YOUR CHARACTER THOUGHT, WHY DID YOU ATTACK THE A.I. ? OOCly - the attack really ruined a peaceful gimmick for 10 seconds of satisfaction that "yay look at me I killed the antag." - Was it worth it? Nobody was really that impressed. Finally, you took advantage of my compassionate OOC stance on a low pop round by essentially flipping around the usual 'powergamey stealth malf' with 'powergamey stealth oscar' in order to get a quick kill. If I had actually made sense of the logs - you would have died, and killed everybody inside of the core as collateral damage. In fact, if I'd been as bad as your character (and you, clearly) THOUGHT I was, you'd have died, killed everyone inside the core, AND killed the entire station. TL:DR, Drwago was fully justified in bwoinking you and she really doesn't deserve this sort of treatment for doing her job. EDIT: As an addendum to this - again, let me stress, from an IC standpoint the whole 'court assassin' deal was very clever and very amusing. The way you should be looking at your bwoink is not "my actions didn't make sense", but "okay, I valid hunted because I just kinda wanted to kill an antag and that ruined everybody else's RP and I accept that and I'll bear in mind in future rounds and I will be sure to play Colonial Marines if I want my action fix". You weren't even banned, were you? It's not the end of the world.

Gonna approach this from a few angles to flesh out the context of what I think everyone in general might be referring to - I'm neither supporting the player complaint because I don't have anything against the player themselves, nor am I refuting the player complaint because there are very real problems that need to be addressed. I'm supporting positive change - not just on the part of Lin but on the part of many, this isn't an isolated issue and player complaint'ing every single person would be frankly tiresome and - do the admins really want all the extra work? It's nice to have a public forum to explore the problem if only briefly and it seems there are enough eyes here to do that, so: > Head of Security: To start with - I will be honest and frank with the best of intentions. No, I don't believe that Lin Dyslioth as a character, with the character traits described and the mental history behind the character, is suited for the position as Commander. Not just because of the stresses involved, but because of the requirement to specifically work with others, and coordinate a team from the sidelines effectively, without preconception and focusing on the objective facts of round. Can the player do so effectively if they were given a different character? That remains to be seen! The problem is, the role of Head of Security needs to be more properly defined and enforced in how it operates; the entire premise of the role is to organize the I.S.D. from your office, manage communications and outline the rules of engagement based on the evidence you've seen and that your Forensic Techs have brought you - if any. > Command: It's a misconception on the part of a great many people that members of Command personally dealing with antagonists or other visitor types is of benefit to the round. It just isn't, it removes the crew from the opportunity to interact and / or choice of being affected by the round. From an OOC standpoint based on real-life comparisons, it doesn't even make sense! Visitors don't need to be taken to your leader, they need to be taken to the RIGHT leader - based on the flavour of their gimmick. The ONLY member of Command who should be the face of the crew in all things, is the Captain, because they don't have a department to specifically coordinate. Based on what I have seen, I believe that Lin Dyslioth does often like to have this focal point around her, as the Head of Security. Being the only member Command online doesn't qualify you for interactions that are beyond the scope of your role - it simply makes you the ranking official with regards to any decisions that need to be made. Now to be fair, the I.S.D. is by definition intrinsically involved with antagonists, but it's not their job to find out what someone wants or to direct their gimmick if it's a non-antaggy one, it's their job to handle security concerns. Yet it seems to me that Nat will constantly shadow these individuals as their personal escort, or try and handle negotiations on her own. If those go south? She takes it personally, and that affects the decisions she makes as a character (or a player, it's unclear, but I'm going to assume the character) - this is not a suitable character trait for Command. Natcula, if you're reading this - I'm not trying to bash you. I want you to understand that in the role that you've chosen for Lin Dyslioth, her job needs to be to provide information to the crew, and ORGANIZE responses to Security concerns, not be the spearhead OF that response. Positive change is great, and it removes the need for Character Complaints. I also want to note on the side that I believe you did levy a player complaint against ShesTrying for doing the same thing as Head of Personnel - a complaint that I agree with based on the things that I've outlined above - but it seems that you've fallen into the same trap? > Metacliquing: Right, off the bat I'm going to say that this term is thrown about a lot (overused, in fact) and there's some players who don't know what it means. Metaclique is when you use your OOC knowledge of - and friendship with - a player to specifically seek out their characters, on any character, regardless of whether they have a legitimate reason to meet or not, and will only roleplay with the characters of that player, giving others very little attention and denying outsiders access to this roleplay. This OOC association with the player affects the decisions your character makes regarding their character in a profound way - whether deciding whether to kill or talk to them, or teaming up with them because you know they're robust or that you know they'll go for it while others won't give you the time of day. To debunk some of the arguments AGAINST Natcula now - this term despite its negative connotations is a both a boon and a curse. The first half has never been and never will be a bad thing, because everybody enjoys different styles of roleplay and some players and simply more compatible with one another than they are with others, due to similar preferences in writing style. If Natcula doesn't like the way most roleplayers play, here, she has every right to only properly indulge herself in depth RP with specific people. The OTHER half, Natcula doesn't do. Without sounding harsh - let's be honest, the proof is in the pudding - Nat doesn't really have many people to Metaclique with, not only because she only plays the one character for the most part, but also because most people are against her for one reason or another. As was already stated, the Kalna thing is a Kalna issue. > In-Character Prejudice: A common complaint that is levied against Natcula is that Lin Dyslioth essentially treats other characters - most of those people being security officers - like dirt. I can vouch for this complaint because I've played several rounds as Garret O'Brien with her as the Warden. Again, I'm going to assume this is an in-character thing, and from an IC standpoint she's entitled to be that way if those characters possess traits that she does not like. But again, this is not a behaviour that ANY member of Command should possess, ever, at all, not once, not ever. I understand from some observations that Lin Dyslioth is a complicated character, she considers others to be meat heads and so on... but from a Commander perspective - they are YOUR meat heads. Your job is not to be their friend, your job is to coordinate them and use them effectively, not simply dismiss out of hand that they are even remotely reliable. IRs and reprimands exist for situations that are handled poorly AFTER the fact. > Inconsistent Escalation: This point has actually been alluded to only in little segments, but it's a concern I see floating around as lot in Dead Chat and witness all too often as an A.I. Lin Dyslioth behaves in one of two ways - when the roleplay is focused around her character, she will enable antagonists and avoid going to Blue, avoid commanding arrests, avoid doing anything remotely hostile despite the laws being BLATANTLY broken by the antagonists involved if they've done nothing to HER, personally. It literally takes a full blown murder in front of her eyes to make her see the light - and even then, sometimes, it's brushed under the carpet because it wasn't a character she knew and cared about personally. If the roleplay is NOT centered around Lin, she WILL escalate a Security response, have people go out and arrest them or try to make the arrest herself. As the A.I., I very very very rarely witness any communication between Lin and her officers throughout such scenarios, and while I have a lot of stuff to do, whenever I look at Lin she's either laying in an Operating Room, bleeding from a firefight, OR she's staring down the antag, trying to negotiate or tell them that they're bad and they should feel bad. I don't really know what else to say on this. Nobody knows where she is, what she's doing, they only find it out after she gets shot or when someone else tells them where she is. To re-iterate an earlier point, every minute Lin Dyslioth spends out of her office interacting or fighting with someone else is another minute she's not distributing information and coordinating her team. ~ In Summary ~ I apologise for the essay. I hope I've been largely constructive with it, but to conclude with the key points I'd like to see change... Lin Dyslioth as she currently is, is not suitable as a Head of Security. In order to be an effective commander, she needs to learn when to step back and manage affairs from the sidelines, and open her heart to others, trust them to do their job, and view the facts objectively without having any personal experience of the situation. You need to provide the rest of the crew with a chance to have a say in how the antag's gimmick goes down. A chance to influence the round. Let your officers deal with it - if they're doing a shit job, tell them how and why, but keep them informed. Let other characters on the station roleplay with the antag as well, not just Security - within the realms of reason; if they're shooting up the place, by all means demand their severed head on a spike. Maybe consider dialling back on the personal issues that Lin is suffering with, and provide her with some stability. She could be on the mend from psychiatric treatments, which would explain the sudden change. Maybe she has a sit-down talk with someone else in Command who points out these problems to her ICly. Lin Dyslioth would be a lot more enjoyable as a character if she had some consistency, and didn't seem to - SEEM TO - instantly 180 between being a bit soft to being a one-woman army. Regardless of the outcome of this complaint though, I have no issue with the Player - we all need to learn, and I had my education as well, the hard way. Sometimes I still do - it's not because people are against you irrationally, it's because you genuinely do something that doesn't fall in line, in some way. It's a hard pill to swallow because you think it's embarrassing to suddenly crumble under so much pressure - but it's not, nobody would think less of you for changing, we want you to change because you otherwise have so many good qualities and people want to enjoy those without the experiencing the bad. IMHO.

I was with Jesse Armstrong for a good round of Heist, as the A.I. Mistress. He handled the Security Department really well, there were no casualties and everybody knew where everybody was - they also managed to deal with armed intruders better equipped than they were pretty handily. Efficient Commander tbh! Should definitely be a HoS more often.

Hi again! So, after speaking to the player in question as per their suggestion, and interacting with them for a few rounds afterwards, I would like to withdraw this character complaint as the issue seems to not be a recurring one and what I felt that they were doing wrong before, they have not continued to do. In general, there is a positive outlook for the future and I don't think it warrants moderator action anymore unless you feel otherwise.

I may have worded the complaint quite badly, but this post is not pertaining to IC issues, the complaint is purely regarding the roleplay of Gunnar! An incident report is not possible because the station's self-destruct mechanism being enabled is not canon, therefore CCIA might be a little bit confused as to why two members of Cargo were panicking and attempting to flee the station in fear of their lives! But you are absolutely correct, if I were able to handle this with an Incident Report, I would have gladly done so! A little bit false on the first part, but this isn't relevant to the complaint and will be addressed in-character through the CCIA channels, fear not! They're very good at what they do and as I stated, I have no issues with it, it's been a long time coming and a lot of miners deserve Incident Reports for what they do, that is an IC issue being addressed through the IC channels and I welcome it. ^_^ Again this isn't relevant to the character complaint, sadly, as the focus of the complaint is what happened following what I mentioned was a perfectly acceptable chain of events that my character entirely deserved. The part where the roleplay comes into question is where your character seems to take a U-turn between a logical, strict, law-abiding individual, into a burly brute with a shovel who mashes a Cargo Technician over the skull for attempting to flee a self-detonating station. Not at all, my dude! If you look at the kind of character that Jesse Johnson is, they are from the Twins which is a part of Eridani space where the working class are renowned for absolutely despising authority figures due to the conditions in which they lived and worked at the time. Both myself and FreshRefreshments (based on what I saw of their roleplay) are very, very seasoned writers, and are happy to welcome any and all consequences that crop up as a result of the character types we play. The fact that something doesn't get done about it usually isn't something that we actively prepare for, it's something that we embrace and welcome because it's what the characters are there to inspire. Not me, Mayfield. ^_^ There is no need for the strong emphasis, as I know that everybody handling the Incident Report will clearly see that Mayfield had breached regulations. Can you please cite the specific circumstance and provide logs in favour of an unrealistic response? Because as far as I recall the mention of a thermal drill followed as a result of Gunnar attempting to force two members of crew to stay on a self-destructing station (which will end in the guaranteed death of all crew present) with hostile force of his own - first, before the threat was issued. I did not include this in my logs as it was not relevant to the complaint against -your- character, which is what this post is about. I'm sorry dude, this is false. The logs demonstrate no attempt made to push the Quartermaster prior to him battering her skull. Based on the behaviour that your Quartermaster had exhibited earlier in the round, both characters were able to reasonably conclude that he would not resort to potentially-lethal force (which head injuries very much can be, as it only takes two or three hits with a heavy implement to actually break bone) over a member of crew attempting to flee Code Delta in order to save their own life. Because an unprovoked attack on a Cargo Technician would be very much against regulations, and disrespectful, which Gunnar seemed to be a stickler for. If Gunnar had attacked Mayfield for absolutely no reason other than to get his own back, we wouldn't be having this discussion, my man. In a Code Delta situation where the station is about to self-destruct, attempting to escape by breaking into escape pods is an exceptionally logical choice. We can't roleplay with walls or windows, man! We really tried, we did, but they didn't say anything back to us. u_u Thankfully this is not an OOC attack on your person, so I apologise if there is a misunderstanding here somewhere. The topic in question is the responses to various situations that don't correlate with what you're attempting to portray in the way you seem to usually play the character. Situation #3, as mentioned in the introduction to my post, is not the incident in question, merely supporting evidence suggesting why I felt that this was not a one-off, isolated problem, and was clearly an inherent character flaw that could use some improvement. Everything that happens in a round is Totally IC. The issue here is the validity of what ICly happens versus how a person would feasibly treat someone or respond to them. In your instance, for Gunnar, you've chosen to portray them as someone who is a stickler for regulations and is very quick to open the rulebook and go through the official channels, relying on rank structure and official standing in order to solve a problem. And that's great! That's how an authority figure should be - particularly in the Corporate world! Unfortunately attacking crew with shovels and firearms because they do something that Gunnar doesn't want them to do, doesn't match up with this personality set. He has been subject to numerous Incident Reports or workplace disciplinary inquiries and has emerged from each one smelling of roses, because of the type of character he is and how he handles them. I do not choose how these things turn out, that's up to the guys down in CCIA, and that's an in-character issue. He should have been fired and I do not dispute that, but he has not yet been. ^_^ And it's been a very entertaining ride so far. But the complaint isn't about Mayfield, unfortunately! You are encouraged to make a player complaint about me and Mayfield, however, though it doesn't really seem like there's any point to it considering you've already dealt with that issue correctly through the official channels. I don't want to dwell on my own character but since you brought it up - Gideon (and many other miners AND some scientists, chemists etc who are far, far worse than him) is not held to the same standards of conduct as authority figures. You will note that a Shaft Miner requires no qualifications whatsoever and is in fact, a very dangerous job crewed by some real roughnecks. I'm just slotting into the role, honestly! In conclusion, I'm really sorry again if there's been some kind of misunderstanding! But this isn't an OOC attack on you as a person at all, merely on the way that you've chosen to have the character respond to In-Character situations that do not correlate properly with how a person in Gunnar's position, exhibiting the sort of personality traits that he usually does, should actually feasibly respond. That's my sole and only problem, and I'm sure you're a perfectly swell individual otherwise. As I mentioned in my complaint, I'm not really worried if nothing moderator-heavy comes from this, no warnings, etc, I'm just hoping it'll serve as a prompt for some kind of improvement. If you feel that I need improvement myself, you should absolutely make a Player / Character complaint, though it seems a bit moot since you've already included it all in this thread here and submitted an Incident Report (which I still think is the right thing to do). Mayfield is a very old character and I've had nothing but positive feedback about him, for both the good and the bad situations. If his presence reduced the quality of a round for other people, I'd definitely take note of that and strive to make it better - or retire the character completely once he's reached the end of his functional life as a source of entertainment and roleplay. Anyway! That's all from me, I'll be leaving this in the hands of the moderator / admin team from here and hope it doesn't leave any permanent hard feelings.

BYOND Key: JupiterStorm / Jupiter Storm#4324 (Discord) Game ID: Not known, I was informed by Skull that the bot didn't save the Game ID for this particular round, but it happened just before bZS-auX3. Hope that helps. Player Byond Key: @Kappa (actual Byond Key not known, might be the same?) Staff involved: Staff not involved. Reason for complaint: I have several incidents in mind but only one which I witnessed first hand. I will order them chronologically but of course the first will have actual detail - the others will solely be supporting evidence which other players may or may not wish to comment on themselves having seen more of it. The Quartermaster referenced here throughout is Gunnar Tyrann - the player being Kappa. #1 - For context, the actions mentioned here probably occurred for reasons likely relating to an issue for which an incident report was filed against Gideon Mayfield - which is fair shake, to be honest, the character has a propensity to be argumentative and rude purely for the sake of it; not exactly a unique trait for someone who stands among the caste of Shaft Miners! It was only a matter of time before he got IR'd (again). What I don't think is fair or reasonable roleplay, is what happened after that. The round in question was A.I. Malfunction, and Jester, the A.I., had escalated their gimmick to Code Delta - which clearly announces for all the crew to hear that the station's Self-Destruct Mechanism has been armed. Gideon Mayfield pointed out to the Cargo Channel that he was going to find a way to escape, since when using his meson scanners while exploring on the surface level, he happened to notice a conveniently-placed set of Escape Pods just above Command. He mentioned that he had a spare Passenger Seat in his APLU, and that if they didn't make it then some protection would be better than none. ( We have no idea ICly that the nature of the self-destruct is Nuclear and that nothing could feasibly survive it. ) Jesse Johnson, played by @FreshRefreshments, a Cargo Technician who had been backing up Mayfield in the earlier arguments, clearly was the sort of character who wanted to live very much - a fairly reasonable viewpoint, I think. They jumped at the opportunity to get off the station before it exploded. An Escape Shuttle had already been called, and recalled, so it was clear drastic escape measures were necessary. It's important to note that both myself and FreshRefreshments were not engaging in any form of hero activity, nor were we intending to take revenge on anyone. Our sole instinct and roleplay was survival and escape. Which I think is extremely realistic, even if it means leaving other crew behind - we're not exactly family, or attached to them, are we? Upon hearing Jesse Johnson's intention to escape the station, Gunnar Tyrann appeared to have a flash of truly heroic inspiration at the dire events taking place. In true Communist Cargonia fashion, he took upon himself the role of ad-hoc Commissar of the Cargo Department, advocating that all the crew were going to go down with their ship and refuse to abandon the Captain (who he had just met - at least as far as I know. I could very well be wrong. It's possible they knew each other from before but I don't think so, since this is a new Quartermaster that I've never seen before). The Quartermaster produced a shovel and stood by the airlock leading into Mining, stating the Jesse was not allowed to leave. Both Gideon and Jesse insisted to the Quartermaster that his actions were going to kill all of them, and that all they wanted to do was escape - because Civilian Crew are not heroes or war-veterans. At least... Oh wait, maybe they are. But ours aren't! Mayfield at this point, stated to the Jesse that they could just sidle around the Quartermaster, that he wasn't going to kill them for trying to escape, because that's absolutely ridiculous, this man was a stickler for regulations and respect! There's no way he could possibly become unhinged and just brutally assault a Cargo Technician who had never wronged him in any way, simply for wanting to save themselves? Oh how wrong I was. As Jesse came towards Gunnar, he started attacking Jesse with the shovel, and several other crew became involved, attempting to restrain the Quartermaster (I think Ornias OOCly and whoever is the player of Berko Mutema). Eventually, the situation dissipated, but not before Jesse's skull had been cracked open from being relentlessly beaten over the head with a shovel, just like the poor Apes in 2001: A Space Odyssey. Mayfield was also attacked while trying to pull Jesse to safety, but got out of it okay because of his hardsuit. By the end of the confrontation, both Jesse and Gunnar were pretty beat up - Jesse could not move very much for fear of disturbing their skull. But Gunnar, with broken bones, still found the time to pick up a Kinetic Accelerator and stood in the way of the airlock (I don't have logs for this part because the taking of the gun and the firing of it did not produce any since it was malfunctioning). He attempted to fire the weapon at Mayfield for essentially ignoring him when he said they weren't leaving, and the Accelerator harmlessly clicked. Gunnar then staggered back inside, demanding medical attention. At this point, with Jesse's head having been patched over somewhat, Jesse still decided they wanted to leave before the station exploded, so Mayfield helped them into a voidsuit and they headed for the airlock. Gunnar, seeing this, ABANDONED his own Medical treatment, and tried to stop them. Mayfield and Jesse pushed him out of the airlock and forced the hatch closed. They then cycled the airlock and made their way outside to escape, while Tyrann screamed for Security to handle two crewmembers sensibly jumping ship during Code Delta, failing to take into account that Security were probably very busy addressing the cause of said Code Delta. We made it off-station rather neatly, and that was that. The logs are as follows, showing the unprovoked assault and following struggle. I tried to salvage what logs I could but it was pretty messy. Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 Fun fact to note, FreshRefreshments and myself were accused of being meta friends as well due to trying to escape together. I've never really interacted with Fresh much before, and Jesse + Mayfield had never met prior. We were just both selfish crewmembers with a desire to escape with our lives. #2 - As supporting evidence, a situation following this that I heard about, in the same round, was Gunnar Tyrann not only refusing to evacuate, himself, with the rest of the crew when a Transfer Shuttle was finally accepted by the A.I., but he took it upon himself for whatever reason, to approach the A.I. core on his own, with no backup, in order to 'rescue' the Captain, Nathan Corvo, who had been Borgified. This, bearing in mind that the Security and Engineering team assaulting the core had already been cleanly dispatched. This again, to me, doesn't seem like very realistic and reasonable behaviour for a civilian member of crew. A lot of people saw this and it was the catalyst for a rather amusing discussion in OOC chat at the round end. #3 - On the round immediately following this one, the Quartermaster once again demonstrated his natural talent for leadership that would make Alexander the Great truly jealous. Upon reprimanding Hal Cohle, played by @Rosetango(?) I think, for not being able to read Tau Ceti Basic, and Hal Cohle quite reasonably thinking this was stupid and deciding to continue with mining anyway... As Cohle continued with going outside, mining materials and delivering them, from what I heard they were attacked by the Quartermaster with a firearm (entirely un-antag related) and had a 'bounty' placed on their head by the Quartermaster, demanding their apprehension by non-Security personnel after Security deemed the issue to be far too stupid to warrant their attention. I did not actually witness the event, but if anybody else has anything further to add it would be quite helpful. #Summary - I think that this collective of issues and situations are honestly quite ridiculous in terms of roleplay (EDIT: When applied to a character who is supposed to be in a position of responsibility, for clarification), the Quartermaster's actions that they chose to take do not in any way make sense to the mind of the reasonable, level-headed and strict protagonist that I think the player is trying to portray them as. I've seen far too many new Quartermasters come into Cargo lately, all of them being some kind of honour-bound Solarian ex-military space warrior who try to 'change' the Cargo Department for the 'better', without realizing that the reason nobody takes them very seriously is because, their roleplay simply does not allow them to be taken very seriously. And that their character comes into conflict with other characters - not because of the characters, who get on perfectly fine with absolutely every other superior they have, but because of their own character's failings. If nothing else, I hope this complaint serves as a suggestion for improvement. Peace out! Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? No, at the time the issue was just an isolated case, not to mention I was not the person on the receiving end of this particular incident and Fresh seemed happy to continue the round anyway. It was only after I saw the results even later in the round, and saw another similar incident involving the same Quartermaster on a following round whereby I figured this couldn't have been an issue solely related to confusion or panic and was clearly a recurring character flaw. I also needed to sleep after playing one more round and I thought I would wake up in the morning and approach this with fresh eyes! Approximate Date/Time: Date - 21/04/2019 Time: ~ 02:10 - 03:08 GMT

( Oksana will be free whenever in case a statement is required from the witness, @ Jupiter Storm#4324 on Discord )

No that's absolutely fair, I'm just as bad for assuming negative intent. And I will try to keep that in check now that I understand where you're coming from. This is also very fair, can confirm as a Science character myself. The only way a lack of 'mats really hampers Robotics is in the production of silly gun-mechs and the far more useful robotic upgrades - that said the 'Bots don't often come in to get them when they're available. ?

@Doxxmedearly is right, sorry, that was a misunderstanding. But yes, there is no information in the miners' job role that actually points to them being required to hand-deliver the materials since all shipments and resource allocations are the province of cargo. The point I was getting at was that the only reason the miners handle this, is to get the face-time with Research to smile and wave and get something useful real quick then leave - which takes the best part of 3 minutes tops and means they never have to bother you again, and will return with more stuff. If miners are consistently delivering things by hand in a timely manner, and not seeing even so much as a thank-you for it, they're not going to do it, and they are not obligated to in their job role. They're obligated to dig, and refine, and to fill out Yield Decs, but they're not obligated to physically deliver. Which is the whole point here, really, the whole point of the post, to raise awareness of the common-sense fact that the give-take is mutually beneficial, not very much of a bother at all, ensures a higher quality of round enjoyment for all. Now if someone was to turn around and say, "Oh, sorry, I am a Scientist, but I'm not R&D specialized, I'm working on Circuits and Telecomms," then a miner should be able to understand that. It's perfectly fair. But for someone like Bretscher for example, who churns out weapons, but refuses to take a minute out of his day to throw down a KA (which by the way, you should really try Mining so you can see the difference between a vendor-grade KA and a researched KA), it's a little harder to believe. I agree that a hostile dynamic can be enjoyable and promote RP, but it's important to respect the balance between realism and a game - we do not necessarily play this game for 100% realism, we play it to have fun. The realism is a component of that, but there needs to be a balance to ensure that it stays, fun. If mining stops being fun for progressively more people because they aren't getting satisfaction out of a round, they just won't do it, will they? Then you'll have no materials at all. Similarly if a miner doesn't get what they want because circumstances mean that they can't, for one reason or another, and throw their toys out of the pram and refuses to hand-deliver things anymore and instead leaves it to cargo... While a realistic response, it's severely hampering a Researcher's role, and detracts from their round satisfaction too. I feel like a lot of people are focusing too much on the realism here - and while it SHOULD be a focus, as I said, this is a game first and foremost. Let me draw everyone's attention to a particular clause in my post that I had hoped would cement understanding of why the issue is an issue: Why do Miners play Miners? A Shaft Miner character enjoys exploring, using high-tech equipment that nobody else on station is able to use because it's frankly too destructive. A character like this is geared towards an adventurer mentality, performing an exceptionally dangerous and unforgiving role in order to deliver raw materials and - when quotas are met - dive into ancient ruins or derelict ships, battling with hostile fauna and returning with buried treasure. If you're looking to make Miners happy so they can make you happy, you need to understand why they're asking you for their best and baddest survival tools or digging machines. Why do Science play Science? Science is an incredibly diverse department with the possibility to engage in Research from a dizzying array of fields, and some absolutely amazing Directors like Angela Ulery or Geeve's R.D. will push the boundaries of Science's role, testing the actual game mechanics themselves after a fashion, and exploring ideas that you never even thought would work. Robotics could be churning out next-generation titans of war and industry, while R&D might be experimenting with the most eccentric circuit designs, experimental technologies and prototype star-destroying weapons that don't blow up in your hand. But to do all this, they rely on something - the Protolathe / Fabricators. What do those rely on? Materials. To do their job properly, Science need to be able to run to their machines, print anything that they need, immediately, right that second, not twenty minutes later, not an hour later, right now.