Killerhurtz

Suggestions hm? More varied 'atmos tests'. Vacuum test. 6000PSI test. Cryoatmospheric test. Pure oxygen atmosphere test. Ultra-heat-test-that-does-not-involve-plasma. And some non-atmos tests. Holo-laser-turret test. Holo trash compactor test. Holosingularity test that can't destroy station, just swallow up everything that's not tied down and gib people who touch it.

So much this. Hell - just as an example, I'm 90 certain that the PAPERS use that. And that's a pain.

So you're telling me that we can make canisters and ask Atmos to refill them for us?

Then that would count in the "unless necessary" part. That's the thing though - I know it's not optimal, but it leaves room for judgement in the player - don't fuck with antags, but no one will mind if you use station equipment to refill yourself or get to places (with doors and disposals).

And that's where things went wrong. I'm following you until the manifest part. But the 'words before weapons' didn't last long - the only two characters I remember actually following it were Geraldine and the detective - and at that point my character already had been tased once, and so was wary - and IIRC announced, over public comms, that it didn't want to be shot and that until it was guaranteed, would steer clear of the 'blues'. Then Geraldine made an agreement to meet my character. We met at the top of Science, and we talked - we agreed to stuff my character in a welded locker for safety, because cuffs and straitjackets were not comfortable. They couldn't find one so it specifically announced I was going to get one - and it just happened to be within Science. I opened the locker and was about to get inside but BAM, the other officer with Geraldine flashed me so I teleported away. I'm going to assume this is the point where your captain heard words of the non-cooperation and he gave the order for non-lethals on sight - even though my character kept repeating over and over that all it wanted was to not get harmed again (but at that point it made sense since security sort of omitted the part where my character announced their intention and where they got flashed). I know about the security risk - except that there was several witnesses that saw my character was harmless AND it was always cooperative always to the point where the security actively tried to detain it without it's agreement - and that's when the rubber bullet goosechase started. Then, as you said, Security stood down, Dolos got a drink from the bar then agreed to meet Security in the brig - where the detective, one of the only people my character somewhat trusted BECAUSE he was not constantly trying to fuck it up, met them. They talked for a little - until the HoS walked into the picture and I followed the both of them to the brig, into Processing for interrogation. It answered the questions truthfully - the backstory I made for this wizard was that it was just an unemployed entertainer for birthday parties that just so happened to use more advanced tricks, and that it got lost on it's way to some bar (though it DID crack a few joke references). But because it passed as unemployed (which was technically true), it's answers were deemed not acceptable - and then the HoS asked it what it was doing here, and it referenced the bar and how all it wanted was a drink (that it already had). Then it was told to wait in the detention recreational area - and that's the point at which I assumed you gave the order to try and detain it - but the thing is, it CONSISTENTLY made it clear that as long as it was not harmed, after that point, it would cooperate. It expected the Captain to come for a talk, and instead was shot with a taser - despite the evidence as to what consistently happened during the round. It fled. And that's where the manhunt started. I'm not blaming you Cake - infact I'm not blaming anyone, I see complaints as points to see the full picture so that if something went wrong it is seen, and if not it is resolved (and further disclaimer, I'm not angry and don't have a grudge - I just really want to know what happened, and if something wrong happened I want to see a precedent so that maybe things could get better). It sounds like your captain had a lot of information missing - like how my character always cooperated up until the point where actions were actively taken against it that was not part of an agreement. And that's where my problem is.

Now, I'm sure there's a reason for why it was disabled, but still: Add back the various canisters (CO2, N2O, N2, Plasma) in the list of items that can be ordered from Cargo. Possibly add a cargo points value for the container too (that is less than the cost to order it) so that we actually have a place to dispose of them. The reason for that being that Toxins has a tendency to use up a LOT of gas. It's a pain to try and save up, and when they run out of gas, they can't do much anymore. Then again, it could also easily be used to make some emergency rooms or restock Atmos and all of these other uses - but admittedly that's pretty secondary. Thoughts?

"Do not interact with station equipment unless needed, and behave in accordance to the damage that is being done, not the damage that may be done." Think that could work?

The bar does look tidier that way. I like it.

That makes a lot of sense, actually.

I like those numbers, can put it down to the AI resetting non-essential configurations between shifts. Pretty much the goal. I like the idea, in fact we might not have to go to such lengths to explain it: Maybe the Singularity itself isn't the problem, but the massive amounts of radiation it emits slowly weather the shield generators, emitters, and collector array, so every few hours it has to be shut down to allow those components to be either repaired or replaced? That's... actually an even better idea, and much more in-line with known physics. I love this. I like your idea! - the Aurora is mainly supposed to be a research station, so why not make it something akin to a giant scientific experiment? Between shifts everything is reverted in order to set the 'experiments' back to their default states, so that new data can be gathered under consistent conditions. As for research, it's not too far-fetched to imagine that scientists would be running the same experiments from shift to shift. That's just the way science work, you test theories multiple times to further consolidate them. That too - repetition is a major component of science, for two reasons: first, variable results (like how the LHC collides particles over and over to try and get different results, and second (and that's especially true with the nature of bluespace as I understand it), to make sure things actually still work like they used to]/i] Could just be for bureaucratic reasons: NT demands an equipment count from shift to shift in order to keep track of the station's stock and discourage petty theft. I can imagine a department head getting chewed out for being 1 hardsuit short at the end of a shift. So, putting everything back in place makes sense, since that's how you usually keep track of logistics. If a certain item is missing, depending on the item, the department head (or all the department that manned last shift) get a pay dock (not necessarily needs to be implemented, that's just how I fancy it) That's actually a very valid reason as well. I mean - we ARE expected to turn in a lot of our gear when arriving at the Odin, makes sense that they'd make sure that nothing was slipped by. Usually, if I end a shift in cryo I spawn back at cryo the next round, and vice versa. I like what you're saying though - the Aurora isn't meant to be lived on for long periods of time - that's what ODIN is for. There are dorms to allow for short rest during shifts, but otherwise the crew spend most of their off-the-clock time either on ODIN or planetside (on vacations and such). That's exactly my intention here. Otherwise, without this, it makes no sense for everyone to move to the Odin every round. We can say solars are de-wired to prolong their lives (being online for long periods of time degregates the solar array, for argument's sake). Excess power can easily go to towards charging and powering the drones and machines that refit the station between shifts, or it can simply be vented off as heat into space. We can also say Atmos is reset for similar reasons - most atmos optimizations opt to pump more air into the station, so this status is reverted to save some of the precious gasses used in the process. Solars make sense - hence why they also revert to a default position (which is deemed the most likely position to shield them from stellar rays that damage them). As for the power being used - it was somewhat implicit that some of it would be used for the drones, but there's two major issues with venting it in space: one, it would take a LOT more time than 15 minutes with the amount of energy, and two I said transfer it back to account for why the APCs and outpost SMESes are full when the crew arrives on station. Atmos I did forget - and your reason is completely valid. Reset the system to save on gas, and make it inactive so that the partially filled tanks can be replaced (with the tanks in place being sent back to Odin for recycling - they'd make three tanks out of every four to six used tanks with the amount of gas left in them. Completely agreed - that's why when I suggest, or support, a suggestion of this importance I always try to come up with some lore reasons to build from.

Then simple. Add a clause that drones should not retroactively fix things. Which means that they cannot 'predict' damage - and so they explicitly don't see 'sources' of damage, they only see damage.

Yeah no - that's just fucking retarded. I completely agree with SEVERELY gimping the holodeck fire. Because as it stands, it's literally a game-over switch. And if it can't be toned down, fuck it, remove it. But let's make sure to add some more antag features to make sure that it still stays fun.

Or just generally if the station needs extra power. But yeah - I like that idea.

For reference, updated with links to sprites done from scratch for the IPC update.

Bump?

Lore-wise, we could use the explanation that the Odin needs a semi-regular checkup and backup of all crew in case something goes wrong. The fact that we lose all progress between shifts, as well, would be explained by this (since by end of shift, there's usually a ~10-20 minute pause between the departure of the shuttle and the round afterwards)(most of this, if not all, would be done with extra-sharp timing and automated station drones - I made the math, and with a worst case scenario of the cargo shuttle being docked at station and with the movement speed of station drones, I'm 90% certain that a sufficient amount of players could do it in 9 minutes): -For safety reasons the singularity must be powered down - similar to how a supermatter core can laminate and be extra-destructive, there's a limited time (let's say, for RP reasons, 6-8 hours) before an artificial singularity enters some state (names I'd suggest to sound neat: superlative time distortion, phase gamma, black nova, phase shift) that causes them to rapidly degenerate and emit massive amounts of gamma radiation. And so, the station drones would reconstruct what was lost in the engine startup and clean up the emitters to be ready to be initiated between shifts. -All research data transferred to Odin archives (because they are taking the approach of iterative research - RnD, and everything that's not entirely new, is logged into the archives and processed by a/multiple AI(s) to try and find patterns, or differences in patterns, or other forms of data correlation that leads to ACTUAL discoveries (which is ALSO why the Protolathe and circuit printer automatically get blueprints unlocked at certain levels - the tech already exists, NT just wants the data to be repeated over and over to see something new emerge) -All departments are restocked, Toxins is purged, Telescience is reset (and any extra teleport crystal (>implying it happens) are taken and shipped to NT for further study), medical is cleansed, and everything put back in it's place (even the tools lying about the engine at round start because it's a NT plan to save on time by having a toolset visibly accessible outside should something go wrong - thought up by a CE that noticed most of his crew tended to ignore toolboxes until shit actually DID go wrong). -All possible damage, from meteor or otherwise, is fixed. -All the people who are left SSD across the station and in the dorms are moved to cryogenic storage. For plot purposes and the characters who come in via the Arrivals shuttle, the cryogenic storage is shipped out two times near shift end - once at the same time as the shuttle containing the crew, then another five minutes before the following shift after all of the stragglers were put there. -All materials that were ordered from Cargo and not used (alien gloves, components, etc) are retrieved and shipped back to Central. Central's cargo crew feasts on the remaining pizza (a perk of having such an important title). Other unused resources are cleaned, sterilized then repackaged for redistribution, or recycled for the resources that are neither edible nor salvageable. -All weapons are recharged. (IC, the Captain's Pistol doesn't move because isn't it pretty much only taken out because of antag action?) -All medication made is safely disposed of, for two reasons: different medical teams may like different mixes, and uncertainty as to if/how contaminated the samples really are. -The solars are de-wired and the SMES' depowered (most power being drained to backup SMESes that are not accessible to the crew - under Engineering or the AI core maybe? Or just somewhere), APCs temporarily turned off (after end of shift) for electrical work on the station Anything I'm missing?

I approve of this. Would be quite atmospheric. And with some code, we could probably dim or turn off selective lights to simulate an actual night lighting. Hell - if it's not directly coded in, I'm going to make an event suggestion for this to happen. Also, Scopes - for what it's worth, I'm one of those players who would be in the night setting 90% of the time, and I love this idea.

To be fair, Bokaza - the service channel would be usually low-priority, and you can turn off channels in your headset. Just sayin'.

Jack, there's a single problem with that. The fact that the holofire is only available when the security features are off. Unless we had plasma windows on the holodeck, it only makes sense that a device/room that can create, on demand, tangible holo-matter could create, if tampered with, an actual fire. Though what I wonder is, how does the fire sustain itself? IIRC it spread pretty heavily last time I saw it. Does the holodeck legit create plasma? (Though talking about singularity - I'd be down having a 5-second holosingularity that attract and gib people)

Dreamix, I don't see this being an issue considering that if people are seen with this item, they're wearing a proof of culpability in altering NT property.

I disagree. It IS a powerful weapon. What we need is education on this - because to be honest, there's only four sort of people who will press it: griefers, crazies, ignorant bots/AIs and antags. The first two are bannable, the third can learn, and the fourth will usually only use it as either a weapon or a menace - it's almost a Nuke level of threat. Though what I say should be done is allow cancelling it and giving another simulation that completely cancels it, on top of having actual value (like vacuum-pressure testing, cryoatmospherics testing, so on).

I have to entirely approve of this. Right now, Civilian Supply has no channel, the only technical department without one. And it would feel wrong to lump them in in the general Supply channel. As for how hard it would be to implement? AFAIK you can actually do it manually ingame, so how hard could it be?

will there be 667?

Then maybe I should add Cake to this - as they told me they tried DELAYING the kill order - and succeeded for 45 minutes. The detain order was clear however and I can't blame you for this - nor is this the subject of the complaint (it's strictly the assault despite a mutual agreement to containment if assault DIDN'T happen) And as far as detain goes - I thought it was made clear that Dolos would cooperate if they weren't shot anymore. Thoughts on why they kept getting shot even after they were in technical custody?

BYOND Key: Killerhurtz Player Byond Key: Rusty Sh4ckleford Staff involved: Tainavaa gave me the ckey - otherwise, no one. Reason for complaint: As the Head of Security on a wizard round (on which I was the backup wizard because the first one SSD'd), attempted to kill me (and succeeded shortly before a shuttle was called) despite the following facts: -The captain, in that game, delayed/tried to get me not killed, making their HoS technically break a Captain's order. -I had harmed no one, nor was I in any capacity to, and never made any attempt to. -To improve RP, I communicated with crew - and I even tried, on three different occasions, cooperating with security. All three times resulted in assault (tasing, flashing, then tasing that eventually escalated into use of lethals). Every time, all I did was blink myself out of harm and wait to heal out even though I could have, after the first time, memorized lethal spells to dispatch them (but that's no fun for anyone involved). -For the latter in the above example, I had agree - to get them to do their role AND to give them a reason NOT to shoot me - to turn myself in for interrogation. It happened, then I was told to wait in the communal area for the captain to arrive - and at that point, the HoS itself tried to tase me while I blinked away - and of course that was all the reason needed to start a manhunt with lethals. Approximate Date/Time: October 9 2015, ~5:20