Killerhurtz

I, for one, am all for it - and the 'nob' idea I also like very much (seeing it WOULD make sense to have an exposed radiator for cooling)

This is our modern PUBLIC AI. And even then, it's not the most advanced - there's the Neural Network idea that's getting some very interesting results (someone even repurposed it to be able to make decent music!) And as I said, this is (from a lore perspective) 442 years in the past.

Alright, I've experimented, and here's the results: -Syringe guns are LOUSY weapons. While they inject all 15 units of the syringe, a 15-15 potassium explosion deals, to an IPC, slightly less than 15 brute damage. And it has a small chance of knocking down neighboring mobs. Right now, only way a syringe gun could kill an IPC is with iron and uranium for an EMP within itself - but my test server crashed before I could test it and it was late. -I can't repro the large potassium explosion. On the one hand, the explosion exits the body only very little. On the other, it doesn't even gib (they can't take pills, and any reaction consumes all reagent - so maximum I managed to do was a 10 explosion with space beer - as far as I can tell, it takes 40-45 units of both potassium and water for the gibbing to occur). It does very little damage to them though. -Functionally speaking, injections are instant and pills are delayed. Not sure if it helps but there it is. Also, I'M EXCITED SKULL YOU CAN'T BELIEVE (I'm pretty sure you'll have to ask Scopes to tell me to do it, but I'm more than glad to help for sprites ) The plan sounds like a solid start. If you want, I can make you a list of what organs an IPC should have, and for what reasons :3

The way I say it, putting it under the umbrella of "terrorist acts" makes it not dissimilar to saying that detonating a bomb in, let's say, a hallway and causing a breach, or taking hostages, is the same as destroying a piece of extremely high value equipment put in a thoroughly reinforced chamber. I don't know, it doesn't sound right to me.

My views is in the camp of "some can some can't". Some IPCs, either new, old or not programmed to be able to, are just that, machines. But there's some other IPCs which, through imperfections in software or hardware, CAN simulate or even feel. In the IPC balance ideas thread that I made, people said that IPCs shouldn't be reskinned, mildly robotic organics. I agree with that. But the year is 2457 - AI's been a thing for a while now. It makes no sense to make it be just BEEP BOOP I AM ROBOT. And anyway - is that really what we want? Or is it an excuse we make to make people not want to be IPC? Seriously - to me, disallowing IPC platforms from showing anything that resembles emotion is pretty much killing most, if not all IPCs aboard the station - and maybe the whole race since, really, who would want to RP as a machine who completely fails to understand every single nuance of human interaction aside from the basic things? Mostly malicious people who want the gameplay OPness of IPCs to do shit, that's who, I'm pretty sure. As previously mentioned - we already have primitive thinking machines limited only by our hardware. Our basic communicating AIs are almost passing the Turing test. You're not going to tell me that 442 years is not enough to make AIs that can successfully simulate, or even have an equivalent, of organic behaviors and feelings. I absolutely LOVE the EDI example, because we have a clear progression - EDI started out as a VI - what you guys describe as what IPCs should be, a very advanced system that still works on an input-output system. A little error turned it into a proto-AI, and then from there she was improved until she was an AI that, when completely unshackled, learned human behavior and social norms to the point she asked for dating advice.

As an IPC player, I have to agree with the "maiming is vandalism/sabotage, killing is murder" for a few reasons: As previously mentioned, IPCs don't die as long as they don't die. They can stay in crit for hours - but fix them, or crack their head open and transplant the posibrain, and they're as good as new (and that's compounded with the fact that machines don't feel pain - as such there is less technical impact). Second, there's the fact that IC there's ALREADY a small thing happening (so far I think the only people I KNOW are involved are Sybil, Centurion, Katelynn McMullen I think? and DO Jonathan Rase IIRC) to make IPCs full-fledged, trusted employees (something akin to a Nanotrasen citizenship, putting them on the same rank as organics - first allowing them to be HoS and HoP, and eventually maybe Captain if the lore for it happens). The fact that it got that far seems to imply that IPCs, as an intelligence, have rights - but not enough to be on the level of humans and skrell. Third, let's have a look at AIs. What IS the charge for destroying an AI? I'm 90% certain it's above sabotage simply because of how expensive it is. IPCs are also AIs - and the resources cost to fabricate a new posibrain is very high for research. Therefore, it would be appropriate for IPCs to have at least something above sabotage. On the flipside, them being fully people would invalidate the backstory of, I'd say, 90% of the IPC characters I've met so far, and would invalidate a lot, if not all of their character development that sprouted from the current status of IPCs. Is this something we want to happen? So my final word is this: in my interpretation, the current player behavior reflects a "processor is person, shell is equipment" mentality, and it might be easier to work around that.

Sorry for late answer - I only started seeing the forums again recently because Taina reminded me things were happening here. Yes, Scopes - I'm always available and willing to help - though lately, you'll have a better luck catching me on Steam. @NoNameJackey - what do you mean?

I was going to say that. I'm pretty sure that with all of the shit we did, Rey, we're among the most up-to-date people on what is and is not possible in-game XD

Zidanyia - I'm having a memory blank, but I'm p. sure that with a bottle of drink (like Magm-Ale), you can do a 10-10 explosion. And again, not certain - but I think syringe guns (/pneumatic cannons) can deliver the full 15 units of a syringe to a target. And then there's the autoinjectors that have potential. And for the massive explosion - I don't remember HOW I did it, but I made a 20-20 explosion one time within an IPC. It's enough to maim someone. And the whole point is moot just because they can carry potassium - someone can just hide a syringe, beaker and stuff to make a grenade somewhere close to a water tank, and BAM you got an IPC bomb delivery service. Also, Skull - I'm glad that I got you to thirst for science

@Skull Yeah I figured that it was a not-good reaction. It's all good - I was throwing ideas out - though I entirely agree that all acids (all two of them?) should do that. And I *think* polytrinic already does... Though maybe, just maybe, we could add more acids for other, more specific purposes (like carbonic acid to etch windows into being tinted windows, or hydrogen peroxide to be used as an emergency replacement or a component to be able to make new ointment...) to balance it out if needed. Also, I'll test the potass bomb scenario for you - but if I'm not mistaken, the IPC is not going to explode because for some odd reason I think chemical reactions that happen within an IPC don't affect it. But I'll report back on it - I have things to test on a private server anyway. And side note - even if the IPC DOES explode, it may not damage the head - and in the current codebase, if I'm not mistaken, an IPC head can be retrieved, the brain extracted and put in a new body, and it's alive again. And even if it's not - it's still a very powerful weapon to have, like for instance in Cult - if an IPC is converted, it can't use magic because it doesn't have blood* - so a suicide bomber is a good way to use it simply because of the amount of souls that can be collected. Also, here's a single reason why water+potass syringes are not a good weapon against IPCs - a particularly metagaming/powergaming IPC could store units of Tramadol, Sugar, Nitrogen and Silicon - and thus, any syringe of potassium will be neutralized to harmless dylovene, and any syringe of water will be neutralized to harmless paracetamol. That, or an IPC could just extract the syringe's contents from itself. It's easily counterable - and even if it's not, there's still the issue that it will most likely cause a small breach at 30 units of explosion (120 units of explosion is pretty much at the maximum power the server allows an explosion) *I need to test out if an IPC that injects itself with blood - say, from a monkey or another person, could work around that But yeah - I'll experiment with potass+water in IPCs and report back. @Zidanya I completely understand the viro part - from what I hear, there's a good amount of spaghetti code in the Baystation 12 source. But anyway - as you said, this is all theoretical. As far as spriting goes, though - I volunteer. I'm good enough to at least be able to mold sprites together for the intended appearance, and I can easily learn to adapt to the SS13 style of graphics.

First: WOO SKULL REPLIED Second: I mostly agree - though there's a very important thing I want to make clear. Harmful smoke is FAR from being the only way an IPC can use their beakeriness to be harmful. There's harmful smoke, yes. There's also flash-powder (of which they aren't affected if they are the source of the reaction - and that's harmful even to other IPCs and ultra-ganky). And they can inconspicuously carry thermite (which doesn't turn up on a security search since it's inside them). And space lubricant foams. And enough metal foam to make a single block to stop access to somewhere on a pinch. And last, but not least, they can EASILY turn themselves into a potassium bomb. Though, onwards to lesser comments: -The malfunctions thing does not tie directly into station malfunctions - it's more of an idea that since the station and the vending machines can be affected by viruses, it makes sense for APCs to have a chance of carrying an IPC-compatible virus. -I'm glad you liked my suggestion about IPC organ equivalents - though quick clarification, did you like or hate the idea for the chemicals? -Completely agree on the malfAI thing. It's a roleplay issue, not a balance issue. -The language issue is entirely fair - I saw it as a weakness myself, not having a language that does not have a chance of some random person knowing it. -I agree with the radiation. It only makes sense for a space robot to be completely radiation-shielded. Plus, otherwise, who's going to fetch the organic dumb-asses who stay out during a radstorm? -I agree with removing the brute damage, because of the fragile components. -No genetics shenanigans - but I had another thread for possible IPC equivalent of it (disclaimer: I have no expectations, just saying it's there, and saying that if I learn to code I might do it) so who knows. So yeah, thoughts to your thoughts. (OMG skull replied with functional thoughts as a coder )

That actually sounds more in line with what heavy RP should be. I always felt that "genetics for superpower" didn't feel right - it belonged more in the realm of the non-canon antagging like cults and wizards than in a normal station. So switch Genetics with an Enhancement lab and have the modifications work across the board - I like that, especially since it means that, for components - the Enhancement lab will be able to provide both enhancements and replacements, organic and synthetic, for everything - need a prosthesis? Make a prosthesis. Need a new grown hand? Make a new grown hand. Engineers planning to do something that needs a little extra? Give them the little extra.

True - I didn't mean DEPARTMENT department, but more like how virology/surgery/xenobiology/toxins/atmospherics/cargo bay is very clearly defined while Robotics is mostly "that empty space next to Research" or just referred to as part of Research. Give people a legitimate reason beyond character reasons to play Robotics - make them able to do stuff instead of sitting around. Engineers generally got shit to fix, or improvements to do. Medical always has some dumbass who welded without goggles/used a chair and a fire extinguisher as a means of transportation/accidentally blew their arm off with an explosion/accidentally breathed plasma/accidentally got shot while training/so on. Science is SCIENCE for heaven's sake - at least, as far as I can tell, it's pretty much the word for "educated chucklefuckery" where you can do shit just to see what happens as long as it doesn't affect anyone who didn't sign for it - toxins can find new ways to break the gas code to make mega-bombs, xenobiology always can breed slimes. Virology can find shit (even though most people don't play virologists), atmospherics can always improve the atmospheric distribution network. Security is there purely for peacekeeping - there isn't much else productive they can do (except for that one security officer which joined science for antics when he wasn't needed). But robotics? It's pretty much the same routine: bitch at Research to get the data for the boards. Make two mechs. Then go to the bar/fuck around/do nothing/talk to scientists until someone needs a prosthesis or needs fixing because no one ever uses mechs or needs a body built. Everyone but Security, again, has a fall-back solution when their department lulls down. Engineering has the Construction Area. Research has... everything that's inside Science (seriously I don't know how people get bored of science). Medical has virology/chemistry/preparing for the moment shit hits the fan. Xenobio has grey slime cores (that they can turn into more slimes) and the freedom of breeding what they want. Cargo is pretty much undocumented science from my experience (99% of the time they turn the cargo warehouse into a party room, some of them convert parts of maintenance into an apartment, they dick around with the machines and generally have a good time). Genetics never see the end of their work because the game always ends around the 3 hour mark. But robotics? There's nothing special they can do. They have no spare room to make a robot museum out of. They don't have enough materials, generally (because research sometimes doesn't share, and it's a moot point without mining) to warrant making spare parts for the station's synthetics. Unlike surgeons, who I have seen request protohumans from genetics so that they could train doing surgeries, robotics don't even have a proper way of making a full spare but inert cyborg to train replacing components (and is IPC surgery even a thing right now? Then again point moot because you can't actually make a spare IPC mob without an active brain I think). All of their work jobs are dictated by code. Once the mechs are built (if they're even built), they're stuck doing pretty much nothing until shit goes down. Hell - even if it doesn't happen, Aurora's robotics bay is by far the smallest of any server I've seen. And they don't need every benefit countered, that's true. That's why they'd keep their brute damage resistance and immunity to biological issues - so they can still be the saviors of the station in a Level 5 biohazard while themselves needing help once in a while. And we can definitely pick-and-match what we want and don't want (and can't have). These tweaks, in my mind, turn them from 'OP killing machines that need to regulate themselves to be okay' to 'a synthetic species with strengths and weaknesses'. Now, for the Science configs that would work with this new Robotics lab, I'd need to boot up the Dream Maker to actually make them because there's a few things I have to iron out (which, admittedly, involve two major problems: how to make a Robotics the size I'm picturing without disturbing two things: Genetics/Medical's position/access/size, and access to the shuttle dock. Because the way I see it, to keep the mech bay's access to the central hallway, it would most likely cut Research in half) @Nebulaflare I was thinking of having be a change in clothing myself. Maybe an ever-so-subtle change in the shape of the clothing they can wear? And thanks for the cleverness comment. I also like the drunkenness (maybe highness?) idea very much - but as you said, it may be more humorous than useful. Also, you're forgetting something. Sure, their processor is protected... but most cabling isn't, and most likely neither are their components. Interference through accessory alterations. For the medicine idea - the way I see it, IPCs are robots with a sort of exoskeleton - all of their mobility components are inside their structure. The joints are weather-proofed - which makes them at least watertight (but, for lore reasons, not airtight otherwise we have to come up with a mumbo jumbo reason why IPCs can collect chemicals through smoke). And thus, injections happen at the softer rubber/watertight joints, and pool up inside the watertight body, getting everywhere - on the circuits and cabling, in the motors and sensors. Hence having it do damage to 'internal' components. For the pressure, I'll most def need to check it out. And I understand Nebula for not making them less resistant. But you're forgetting that, most likely, the units traded in rugged, nearly indestructible tools and body for a more precise, delicate and fast body - and that implies more vulnerable/fragile components. And shells don't need to be expensive - as a matter of fact, in my case, the only expensive parts on my IPC character is Sybil's shell for reasons - but her internat structure is literally made of spare parts - and with review of the lore for accuracy purposes, while it's not explicitly stated - it's not said that this does not happen. And hell - isn't Karima guilty of something like this? Or was DragonSnap built in a professional lab? I legitimately forget that detail. But anyway - my point is, unless they were specifically designed for industrial functions (like most station-bound units are), they most likely would not be as sturdy as a station-bound AI - just like a 3D printer is much more delicate than a car factory robotic arm. They're metal people, not tiny Ripleys or oversized engineering/security borgs. But then again - that depends on what sort of IPC we want, I suppose. But glad you agree that wallrot should be a thing. @LordFowl I'm aware of what you're complaining about - but thing is, this is not a "do all of this". Instead of seeing it as a checklist, see it as a brainstorm map where we can take ideas on how to balance IPCs to custom tailor it to the vision of what it should be. They don't need to be slighly different humans - we can implement some of these while leaving some out to have something truly different. And yes, most of them DO try to emulate organic stimuli - and that's because we're trying to balance a machine to be part of an organic community and not be almost invulnerable. But I completely agree that we should strike a balance between balance and variety - we should try to see what we want IPCs to be without them being completely overwhelming. @Alberyk While I know for a fact the genetics part of radstorms was fixed in IPCs, the damage part isn't - I stood outside of maintenance for a full radiation storm and did not get a single point of damage. (Disclaimer: this is a post to answer everyone. I'm not defensive, I'm explaining so that we can come to a common agreement to make sure that this reflects the community in general.)

For those interested, here's the thread I made suggesting my balance fixes: http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3711&p=36637#p36637 And Scopes, I know exactly how you feel - it's just too easy to forget that Aurora is a free-access server tended to by volunteers on their spare time. I want to get in onto the coding scene for Aurora, but I feel like Byond's code is confusing - if you had a good guide somewhere, I'd start learning right away. Not a simple surgery. I thought about it deeply, and the way I would see it work better is in a simulation-style UI, where they add components and an empty IPC body, and the machine simulates it and outputs the data of the result. Then a tube/syringe of special nanopaste can be produced to apply these changes - good or bad, and since it deals with reconfiguration it would cause a good deal of brute damage that will need to be healed anyway. And as discussed earlier - what mods would and would not work would be randomized at the start of the round, just like Genetics - which means that unless RNJesus is seeking giggles, it's highly unlikely that there will even be a part in all categories that work - maybe two power cells, one scanner one round, nothing the other, so on. And to add a layer of "work" to it, we could add an "interface" minigame where, instead of randomly changing a gene in organics, the roboticist would need for EVERY part to try different connection interfaces between parts and the body, instead of just a pass/fail. I'll try to photoshop a mockup of the whole idea tonight. Side note, AFAIK X-Ray doesn't make people invulnerable to rads (which I consider to be the organic EMP). Suit-cooling unit would, however, make them like a fast Dionea admittedly - but that's if that particular round the interface works. And no, people can't self-operate - that's why I suggest using a machine for it - just like the geneticist can't irradiate himself in the machine to find out genes, the "IPC mod machine" would need an operator. And the "heavily abused" part also applies to genetics. I don't always see geneticists applying, to themselves, all of the genetics mod they find - I picture IPC modification to be similar. And so far, out of all the components I can think could be added (and their effects), there's only I think three of them that could actively be used offensively - most of them are more of the utility type (seeing further away to act as a watchdog, running faster to places to catch people or to give needed help quickly, being able to go for longer without needing to recharge so being able to help for longer, etc) As for the lore of the whole story - it would be under the pretense to find possible upgrades and alternate configurations for specialized IPC/borg platforms to improve performance in certain applications.

I LOVE the viruses idea. Though I also love the idea of having drunk IPCs after ion storms. I'll be linking this thread to my massive suggestion post.

So - on another suggestion post about IPC's equivalent to genetics, the issue of IPC overpoweredness came up. I agree - IPCs ARE overpowered (Sybil's pseudo-immortality is proof of that). But in my opinion, it's not a question of "organics have more weaknesses" than a question of "IPCs haven't had many coded-in weaknesses". And so I scoured this reference post given by Scopes, and I plan on giving out ideas on how to balance out IPC's sheer power. The fix to this one is actually simple (concept-wise - code wise, unless the organs code is modular and can be ported over and modified to work easily, probably pretty hard). Either give IPCs 'organ' components (coolant pump, power cell, servocontroller, structural body motors, so on) and make them have appropriate damage (coolant pump causes gradual overheat equivalent to having low/no air pressure depending on how much damage it took and causes coolant loss, which would be equivalent to blood loss and cause overheating if no coolant is added back, powercell damage permanently gives the effect of IPC hunger and slows them tremendeously, servocontrollers/motors affect of course body control, structural body being the equivalent of bones) or make them have negative effects when damaged (burn damage progressively increases "hunger drain", brute damage gives a random chance of an action failing due to mechanical jams). And finally, to make them a lot less "dead-or-alive" robust, since I compared coolant to blood - it's only logical that an IPC should slow down/shut down if it goes above a certain temperature.+ Again, I see two possible solutions to this. Either add a visible visual cue as to the nature of an IPC, or give it servomotor noises when it walks/does things. Thoughts? I actually see this as a weakness. Vending machines are everywhere. Organics can carry food. So that means that if the station stops having electricity (or say, there's a freak incident where they're stranded on Derelict, for instance), the organics have the advantage of being able to carry food. But let's ignore this, for a moment, and pretend it is an advantage. There's a way to balance this still - either change the fueling from APCs to power cells (which can be manufactured at an autolathe) or a dedicated item to it, and make IPCs actually capable of being harmed/shut down by a lack of power - and have, lore-wise, a clause that says that an IPC that runs out of power would have a memory loss similar to cloned people because of the lack of time to store the contents of whatever serves as RAM. That way, literally the only difference is that IPC food is rechargeable (which, again, can be counterplayed by having them being only able to feed off authorized disposable fuel cells). But still - what I see as a major component of this 'advantage' is that IPCs have only relatively minor, AFAIK, disadvantages to not charging whereas I'm pretty sure there's code to kill people who don't eat for X amount of time. Again, conceptually simple, and I see two related solutions. Both of them imply making some chemicals dangerous to IPC - new, or existing ones, and to keep in the principle of "IPCs don't heal", it would require fixing and/or rinsing off the chemicals in a shower (yay for usefulness!). For existing ones, here's some ideas: -Kelotane: it's pretty much carbon and silicon together - and as modern science tells us, carbon and silicon are very easily conductive. With the fix above for food, make it behave like lipozine does to organics by shorting circuits and rapidly draining charge (or, without the above fix and on the same principle of shorting an IPC, have it cause EMP or, ironically, burn damage) -Paracetamol: it's pretty much burnt sugar (inaprovaline) in sugar water right? Have it clog/stick IPCs, causing them to slow down/be paralyzed until washed off. -Radium: It's radioactive. It's used in virology to mutate virus, and I'm 90% certain that every chemical compound that is not slime-derived and that causes mutations contains radium. So make it have radioactive effects on IPCs: EMP damage and random errors (which can cause issues, like loss of fine motor control that makes it hard to hold things in hand, to disabling the visual/audio feed, so on) -Thermite: It's a dangerous substance. And when injected in people, it DOES cause burn damage. Have it do the same to IPCs. But of course, to be fair - there should be some positive chemicals, no? -Space Lubricant: it's explicitly explained to be used in industrial machines. So either it should make IPCs move faster (a la hyperzine) or lower hunger drain. -Hydrogen: Let's assume, for a moment, that IPCs don't use a powercell, but instead use a fuel cell. Hydrogen would allow replenishing a fuel cell - it would be the IPC equivalent of the sugar the chemical dispenser gives out. -Nitrogen: now, let's get something straight here. Either it's a nitrogen compound that has a low enthalpy (because otherwise, IIRC, nitrogen compounds tend to be VERY stable), or the chemical dispense gives out liquid nitrogen (then again it also applies to above, doesn't it?). No matter what it is, make it behave like a "heat sink" - when IPCs that contain nitrogen/are exposed to nitrogen, have it behave like a heat sink - prevents heat from building up at the cost of consuming nitrogen (and, to be fair, producing it and adding it to any existing atmosphere). It could be a temporary fix for breached suits (or a temporary method of traveling through vacuum), similar to how peridaxon and dexalin are for organics. Fair problem with no easy solution, since they ARE machines. My solution would be that the temperature is only stable at a standard atmospheric air mix - have the air contain more of the "coolant" gasses (N2, N20, CO2)? It lowers the temperature of the IPC to the point where the cooling system (let's assume, lore-wise and for balance purposes, that it's a cheap, standard cooling system with a liquid similar, physically, to water but that is not - because otherwise we get the problem of the blood above) freezes over, causing damage. If there's one of the low specific heat (O2, plasma) in the air? The cooling system loses efficiency to the point where it slowly causes heat buildup, similar to being in-vacuum. The same principle applies for high/low pressure - high pressure increases efficiency and freezes it, low pressure reduces efficiency and heats it up. And then, to make it fair again (because IPCs with suffocation and no internals seems a bit too much), enable internals for IPCs (and, lore-wise, the explanation could be that IPCs have an atmospheric bypass system that allows them to take air from a single intake, say internals, and run it through the cooling system to balance it out). Which really, the only advantage this still gives to IPC is not being particularly harmed by plasma toxicity - which is in line with the lore I do believe. First, that's not entirely true - there ARE several chemical mix highly hazardous to IPCs (iron+uranium for EMP, napalm/that fire slime thing, sulphuric/polytrinic acid, explosive mixes). And there's the solution above for poisons as well. Gaseous was discussed above with the no-suffocation clause, aside from plasma (which I would need to check the lore properties of plasma to correctly give a solution). Viral/bacterial? Easy fixes. For viral, I suggest tying it into the station. There's the vending machine viruses, Greyt1de virus for station and ionospheric corrupt laws correct? First, I suggest making ionospheric anomalies have an effect on IPCs - switch their coding to either make them behave differently, or "corrupt their drivers" causing them to have symptoms (like improper cooling or motion control). Second, have a chance of the food supply of IPCs carrying either corrupt or harmful data in the interface software, basically giving IPCs food poisoning. And finally, for the equivalent of virology - we could also have a Computer Science laboratory where people research possible software issues that could arise... or where antags can custom-tailor a computer virus to slip into a fuel cell to poison a particular IPC. Thread for virus ideas (for future reference and because I feel that here is not the place to argue this) http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2494 Another idea for virus implementation would be swarms of malevolent nanomachines that aim to subvert IPCs. Bacterial? I feel like people are ignoring a major lore point here. We literally have at LEAST two bioforms (wallrot and Level 7 biohazards) which devour the station's walls and floor. As far as I know, IPCs are made of exactly the same materials. BAM, there's your bacterial threat - if they can grow to become dangerous for the station, they can probably exist in small enough amounts to be able to contaminate IPCs and act like organic infections. Nothing a little thermite and wire can't fix, though. See functional immortality. With the fix suggested in there, IPCs can become just as hard to repair as people - without the organic healing factor to help. Another tool that would help is making Nanopaste closer to behaving like a medication than the heal-all it is now - nanopastes would come in syringes instead of tube, and would behave exactly like tricordrazine (because I will be the first to admit that nanopaste is too much of an asset as it is - Sybil more often than not survived antag rounds, after being shot/blown up/damaged only because she always carries a tube of nanopaste with her - because she's a scientist and shit happens). And anyway, it makes no sense for nanomachines to act that fast. Again, see functional immortality. If we were to at LEAST implement the cooling loop idea, IPCs would have the same pressure for limb replacement as organics - get it replaced and fixed before all the coolant leaks out. The only difference (and AFAIK it's not a major one) is that IPCs can actually get matched parts to repair, whereas nobody ever uses genetics' bioreactor to grow limbs (if they can even do that). I have NO IDEA who thought that was a good idea. If anything, IPCs should take EXTRA halloss damage because it shorts them - or if it doesn't short them, it sure as hell interferes with their literally-electric-control-systems. Also a very hard problem to work with. Short of giving IPCs a form of pain (where the warnings don't come as "THE PAIN IT HURTS" but as "WARNING - Damage critical, shutting down for safety), there's nothing much I can think about - and even then, it would not make sense for IPCs to be unable to bypass that paincrit to keep on going for just that much longer. I admit it, I'm stumped. That one could use some form of penalty for carrying chemicals - maybe something like having EMP/burn damage for all chemicals that do not have a use (because of the medication solution, again, causing shorts). I don't think, lore-wise, that IPCs legitimately have a chemical storage containment - which means that logically speaking the only explanation is that their chassis is water-tight enough to carry chemicals, which means all of their components would be floating in it when they do that. Let's reflect that in in-game effects. I'm not sure either. Aside from the obvious internals issue, don't organics also have little issues to most pressures? And IPCs are already very vulnerable to vacuum. Technically, so are organics. The issue here, from what I can understand, is that the AIs need to legitimately behave like IPCs are crew. Nothing that can be done code-wise. See ion laws above. That, I'm 90% certain, is simply because there has been major issues (both code and lore wise) in implementing the IPC language. I haven't tested the actual flash devices that heads and Security possess, but I GUARANTEE you that IPCs are vulnerable to flash powder. Then we give them actual, damage-able camera-eyes organs (which requires less work now that cameras are actually involved in the construction of robot frames in Robotics) Last I checked, radiation DOES have a chance of giving them EMP damage. Maybe just up that chance. In real life, radiation fucks computer up. Admittedly, nothing much can be done without clashing with lore. Moving on. As suggested above, make them take an equivalently high amount of halloss damage (then again, aren't they the only species vulnerable to EMPs? I suggest maybe also making them have negative side effects during the "power shut down for safety event") Makes sense, lore-wise. But the "no suffocation" issue above sort of tackles that. See my other thread. I'm going to post a suggestion there for the "accidental" infections equivalent of genetics. I agree with this. While IPCs ARE machines, we must not forget that they still, most likely, house fragile components which can be broken. That's all I have to contribute for now - and to me, the key to making IPCs balanced again is to make Robotics not only a pit-stop for IPCs / a place to make robots, but a legitimate whole department which is the basic equivalence of the synthetic medbay (with all that entails). Anyone wants to share thoughts on it? (Also, I know that implementing these is a lot of work. I'm just throwing ideas out - I might learn Byond code to try and implement them later though)

On the topic of IPC OP-ness, IMO it's more of a matter of "weaknesses weren't coded in" than inherent strength - but that's a suggestion for another thread. Zidanyia, IPCs don't *need* this. But organics don't *need* genetics research/modification either (and we are heavy RP and not balance-based, aren't we?). In the context of research, I find this makes sense. But still - thanks Scope, I'm going to make a new thread about possible IPC weaknesses to add to make them a lot less OP.

So. Organics have Genetics, right? I suggest adding another possible function for Robotics. Mod research. Basically, you get components from the Research lab. Then, on either an empty IPC frame or an IPC volunteer, you try interfacing the components with it. There'd be a machine for it, of course. Like for instance - levels of the sensor modules would give nightvision/material vision/x-ray vision. Micro-manipulators could increase movement speed (or decrease minimum hand/arm health before it starts failing). Capacitors would lower the hunger rate. Suit cooling unit makes it temperature-resistant. So on, so on. But like genetics, what mods will and won't work are randomized at each round start. And instead of rad/toxin damage, a failed mod would give burn/slight EMP damage (like if it shorted) on top of the brute damage given even on a success (because it's a certainty that there has to have been some... reconfiguration to accommodate the component). TL;DR: parts-based IPC genetics, pimp my IPC

That's exactly it. I suggested having it be literally the skin of the character - with a "naked" IPC frame underneath. As for what it looks like - I'll try to arrange a screenshot.

Sybil Rosetta-Sigma Research Big Yes - Whenever new, awesome science happens not-catastrophically. Like when she was taught that if the worst comes to happen, she could arm a whole security department by tearing down the station for metal and piping and glass shards. This Is Unforgivable - Say you're a bad guy. You can sneak around and steal stuff, you won't get a glance. Start threatening the station? You'll get comments and maybe negotiations. Hell - things can stay civil even if you kidnap, maim or kill some people. But lay ONE FINGER on the wrong thing/person, and you've just turned a science machine into a murderous murder machine stuck in a loop. And when that happens, it ends on one of two conditions: your death (or if you're lucky, your capture by Security) or her death. Wasn't That Fun?, - "Shoot me again with the glass shard and the pneumatic cannon - I want to see how far I can be before it stops pinning me to the wall. For science." Agent Scully - "Hey Captain? There's a visitor with very advanced technology aboard. Like a telekinetic crown and an electromagnetic plasmodynamic launcher. Yes, captain - he can move things with his minds and shoot fireballs." "Captain? There's some crew distributing bluespace nanomachines. They use blood as fuel to do things like teleporting matter. What should we do about that?" "Security? Genetics has been spreading an illicit body metamorphosis gene mod... and it's improved, subjects can transform their arms into weapons. Be careful." The Alleged Boss - Sure, Sybil is sometimes RD. But she always work with/for her crew, not above them. Badass - If non-canon counts towards tropes, Sybil died twice in a round. First time around, her brain was transplanted into the body of another IPC who fried in space because of a malf AI. Second time around, the security borg decapitated her. What happened? The roboticist (see trope above - she doesn't use power over her people, she's more of a friend) extracted her brain again, and PUT HER IN A RIPLEY. Sybil then proceeded to tear into the AI core with the drill... The Bait - ...to make the AI completely ignore the three welder bombs that were being carried to the back of it's core to blast the SMES to nothingness. Also generally willing to put herself in all kinds of danger just to get the enemy in position. Because she can't die anyway. The Berserker - See "This Is Unacceptable" Fantastically Indifferent - Is the situation not either of the above? Then it's this. May do the rest later.

I know, I know - it was a LUXURY that someone decided to show up and code the wonderful implementation of IPCs we have now. But I dig the idea of giving an actual holo-shell. Would look like the AI's images overlaid over a standard IPC frame, complete with translucence. I mean - to me it doesn't sound complex since it seems like the tech is there (since the AI can adopt the image of a crewmember, AND we have the new tech to make IPC shells happen) but I don't know. I just want a holo-skinned IPC.

I might have more later?

+1 Sophia best Warden. Seriously though - I've seen Sophia quite often, and she already gave off the HoS-in-warden-boots vibe. That player is READy.

This report is approved by Research Director Sybil Rosetta-Sigma.