limette

Okay. Close this, please.

To offer clarification since it seems necessary, this is what I am contesting specifically. I am not contesting that I did in fact join the Discord for probably less than a day, nor am I contesting the ban itself. I am specifically contesting the idea that the intent of this rule was to punish something as inane as this with a permanent "Don't come back." In fact, the relevant rule on the rules page does specifically call into question intent. This is probably rules-lawyering a bit, but the whole point I'm making here is one of intent. It specifically says "Multikeying with intent to bypass punishment, such as warnings, bans; to deceive server administration in general; or to bypass ingame mechanics, such as respawn timers, is a punishable offence." Basically, to clarify fully, I am arguing that intent does matter here and mine was not at any point to deceive or bypass a thing; I only wanted to fact-check myself for my first appeal, hence the exact timing of it. I just didn't really think about the fact that doing as much is a mistake.

BYOND Key: Lorilili Staff BYOND Key: Lmwevil Reason for complaint: Admittedly, this is going to be a clumsy complaint - to be clear, I am not contesting the ban itself, or even upholding the ban for some other reason. I am specifically contesting the reason my ban was upheld. That being having 'ban evaded a discord ban within a day of a denied appeal.' My perspective is simply as follows; the day I filed that appeal, I joined the Discord to look over the incident that got me banned. I left again I believe the next day, having sent no messages as far as I am aware (which a friend of mine attested to being the case to me - if that is incorrect, please tell me.) As seen in the messages below, I thought I had done so before the appeal - apparently, I had done so after filing the appeal. I will admit to having apparently misremembered this detail in that case. The crux of my point is that if this 'ban evasion' is grounds itself to maintain a permanent ban, it feels weakly so. I did not use this ban evasion to do... anything. I didn't talk, I didn't join the game, I didn't do a single thing other than search keywords to try to find the incident that had happened. It was, at most, a lapse in judgement wherein I joined the Discord without thinking it through heavily. I don't think the spirit of the rule was for cases like this so much as people logscraping in the background or participating in the Discord actively. Were I intending to truly ban evade, I probably wouldn't be doing it with an account that currently sports my forum username and avatar. To further contest the exact wording of the denial, I did technically do it within a day of a denied appeal - though I'm almost certain it was before the denial itself, not afterwards. If I am wrong about that, I'd drop all contesting here because that'd frankly be an embarrassing misunderstanding. I do apologize for having done so and admit that it was a lapse of judgement; I just feel that it is clear that I did not have malicious intent in doing so. It genuinely was not my intent to try to evade the ban, I clicked on the link available on the Wiki to fact-check myself without thinking of what that meant is all. I don't exactly have a recording of as much, so you'll have to take my word for it, but I am fairly certain that I did not speak in the Discord even once during this period or do anything else but search up keywords to find those logs and leave shortly (the next morning, I think?) after. I can now see how this constitutes ban evasion in any case; I can perfectly reasonably see this being upheld by the letter of the law. I just hope that its clear that my intent was not to subvert the rules or anything malicious. Evidence/logs/etc: My own description of the events and Lmwevil's correction. Sent from my current (new) Discord account (limettelime) after having deleted my old ones. Additional remarks: As I said, I understand if this doesn't overturn the ban. I simply want to clear the record that I was not pulling an 'UponASeaOfStars' and showing up to intentionally evade the ban and manipulate narratives or what have you.

BYOND Key: Lorilili Total Ban Length: Permanent Banning staff member's Key: Lmwevil Reason of Ban: 'Requested permanent ban from server after argument in general discord.' Reason for Appeal: Like I said in my previous, I don't fully expect this to be lifted - taking into account its technically a second permaban (in both cases it was me escalating two strikes into something more - in particular, the game ban.) Especially so soon after the last appeal, but, you know. I miss the community and all, genuinely. Aurora was a big part of my life and the majority of my circle is still Aurora players. I'll be the first to say I was too hot-headed for certain in both of my permabans, and often in my conduct in the Discord in general; I still do not plan to excuse it. Instead, I'll say that having spent time in other communities, to be blunt, I've realized what a gem the Aurora community is and how I shouldn't've been such a dickhead about things in general - especially given how little the things that got me worked up mattered in the grand scheme. I can't say much else to assure you other than repeating that I'd almost never received ingame punishment itself (AFAIK the only warnings I have are for being SSD, and once for poor escalation,) and that I do genuinely plan to approach the community with another outlook now. I've said that before, though, so I fully understand if this is denied again. Thanks for reading and all, hope you consider it.

BYOND Key: Lorilili Total Ban Length: Permanent Banning staff member's Key: lmwevil Reason of Ban: Requested permanent ban after argument in general discord. Reason for Appeal: Okay, so, admittedly, I'll be blunt. I don't expect this to be accepted given it's the second time I pulled that and thus my second permaban. I thought I'd shoot my shot at least and see if I've any chance of returning, perhaps with conditions - such as not doing this again or else it one hundred percent is permanent, and acknowledging that I'm one perma away from no chance of returning, command whitelist strip as bans entail, etcetera. Obviously totally fine if this is denied given the two-perma-limit and how unreasonable I was in these instances; I don't have any excuse nor would I want to excuse it, I was just being a dick. The little defense I can offer is that I believe I hadn't ever received any major punishments for ingame behavior; two warnings for going SSD 3 years ago, and one for killing an officer without escalation a year ago. No bans, temporary or otherwise, except the two I've requested after Discord arguments. A Discord ban staying in place seems reasonable in any case of the overall ban being lifted or not, given that's the vast majority of trouble I've caused.

BYOND Ckey: Lorilili Discord username: apeirogons Character names: Monifa Kayode, Siqiniq Iqaluk Species you are applying to play: Tajara ------------------------------ General Whitelist Requirements What colour do you plan on making your first alien character?: Cinnamon base, with stripes. Have you read the lore pages for the species you wish to be whitelisted for?: I've read most of them, though admittedly I only skimmed Crevus and the Free Tajaran Council so far. Please provide well articulated answers to the following questions in a paragraph format. One paragraph minimum per question. Why do you wish to play this species?: I generally think the themes of Tajara are interesting, and reading through the history section I found it to be, of the histories I've read on the Wiki (which is all of them now) the one that enthralled me the most. I think the ideas of tradition and progress weighed against each other, amongst other conflicts, interest me the most ultimately. Also fun is the authoritarianism and political structures found across Adhomai, each of which has their own major drawbacks for the inhabitants thereof that come into play. What makes role-playing this species different than role-playing a human?: Tajara society and culture is impacted heavily by the fact that they were a young, pre-spacefaring society propelled into the space age by outside forces; older Tajara (outside of the nobility) were literal peasants who weren't even allowed the little progress there was, and toiled away for the masters. In the span of a generation, this changes with the People's Republic of Adhomai's rise and outside technology is introduced; and then another generation passes, and it changes yet again with its decline as the other factions rise. I feel the shock of these rapid shifts in society are the main thing that makes them differ, whether this is in the form of backwards views on the many topics they've progress to make on, or the broader social-political implications. ------------------------------ Character Application Character Name: Emiliya Zaytseva Write a backstory for your character. This may include their origin, education, personality and how they arrived to the SCCV Horizon. Emiliya was born in the recent year of 2441, to a family of Njarir'Akhran in East Ras'nrr, just outside Nal'tor. Her family, seemingly loyal to the People's Republic, were afforded some privilege and comfort, especially given the development of the area in which they resided and the generational wealth they had managed to hold (to some extent, her family having originally turncoated during the period the Hadiis had.) It would only be some years later that the Second Revolution began, with Emiliya watching the fires burn across Adhomai at the young age of nine, though from a position of relative safety. The war would not touch her, outside of her much-older brother's involvement, having been in the Navy since before the war had begun. Emiliya herself would hardly allow him to go off without following in his footsteps, and so she joined a Nal'tor Youth Brigade before she was even ten. It was here that the circumstances of her youth would reinforce the ideology of Hadiism into her; she not only lived in comfort under Hadii prior, but now had the leaders in her Youth Brigade to teach her loyalty. This made the events that followed all-the-more shocking; her brother had defected to the New Kingdom alongside Dynhaas' mutiny, an event only confirmed months after the fact, with a letter making its way across lines to her family. The young Emiliya, then, had two forces tugging at her from either side - her own family's Royalist persuasions, and the Youth Brigade's Hadiist ideology. It would seem one side would have to win out, as her family made a plan to defect, leaving to Old Kaltir to join her brother in their treason. Emiliya may have protested, but the protests of a child fall on deaf ears quite easily. Yet she did not have only protests to offer. A few whispers in the ear of the leaders of her Youth Brigade would see her parents arrested for their betrayal of the People's Republic, and herself both awarded for her reporting of her own family and shuffled into an orphanage; the rest of her more-distant family had long-since left for the Kingdom as well, precluding the idea of being moved to the rest of her family. Between her time in a state orphanage and the Youth Brigades, Emiliya would be molded into the model of Hadiist youth; the pride of her Youth Brigade, exemplified by her loyalty to Hadii over even her own family. Not only loyal to the state, but well-educated in the Hadiist ideology, she would grow up amidst this war serving the Hadiist state to the best of her ability (even if the best of her ability was simple civic duties and community service alongside her Brigade.) By the time the war ended with the Armistice of Shastar, she would be an adult - one with an ideological zeal reinforced like no other by those who had raised her. She would enlist in the Republican Navy immediately, study the Hadiist texts, and even go so far as to cast off her family's old faith in S'rendarr and Messa in favor of the atheist future. The next few years would be ones of service in the Orbital Navy, serving as a pilot with her loyalty cemented even further by the advanced technologies she was now in control of - plain evidence of the progress that Hadiism brings, in contrast to the barbarism of Royalism and Al'mariism. In particular, she would lean towards Young Hadiism, imparted upon her by her time in the Youth Brigades, with a few Visionary Hadiist ideas in her head, themselves granted by her time in the Orbital Navy and studying the top brass' writings. And so, the modern day comes forth, Emiliya departs from the Navy to find employment with the Stellar Corporate Conglomerate - another proud service of hers, knowing all that NanoTrasen had done to bring civilization to Adhomai. Even if her own betrayals of not only her family, but all they stood for eat away at her as she stares into the ceiling every night. How has the recent events of the Orion Spur impacted your character? Events such as the Phoron Scarcity, the Solarian Collapse or even the Invasions of Biesel for interstellar-wide affairs, while region-specific events such as the Peacekeeper Mandate, The Titan Rises or even Cold Dawn may impact your character. The Phoron Scarcity is of great concern to her - NanoTrasen and the People's Republic have walked in lockstep all these years; this risk to their well-being as a corporation and Spur-wide economic health is one that she simply cannot tolerate idly. The mission of the Horizon is an honor of hers to fulfill, as she views the success of NanoTrasen to be well-aligned with the success of her own peoples, and the stability of Adhomai. How does your character view the megacorporation they work for? As established above, she's very loyal to NanoTrasen in particular, having enjoyed the products they've brought to Adhomai in her youth, but also to the Stellar Corporate Conglomerate at large. She sees their investment in Adhomai, whether historical in sparking the First Revolution or modern in offering up ship designs and employment to the Tajara of the People's Republic as key to the future of Adhomai. Notes: Yes, this reads like a propaganda piece. That is intentional. I found it hard to get into the groove of writing without giving it a certain tone. I'll answer questions in a more matter-of-fact Wikivoice if that's preferred.

I'm in strong support of this for the same reason I was in favor of other learner role changes, but even moreso here; Lab Assistant's extremely low requirements open up entire characters that otherwise simply could not be in the Research department. It is not often functionally treated as a learner role, and instead often a semi-permanent role for a lower level and younger character to fill; unlike, say, security cadet or medical intern where one is surely going to move out eventually. I think that's a good thing. I like the RP it offers. What I don't like is, again, similar to other learner roles, the idea of those permanent characters in the slot taking the learner slots from people who actually want to learn the mechanics behind something like Xenoarchaeology. This PR satisfies both my wish for the permanent younger research characters having a place to be, as well as for the learner role to not be infringed upon by the presence of those characters.

My frank response to the idea that AIMMO being mentioned means that we can never mention characters again is; if we want to pave over the contributions made by any shithead jackass to the server, particularly the egregious ones (such as the aforementioned) we'll be reverting a lot of PRs and wiping a faction or two off the wiki. I mean, one of the most impactful things in the server history - ATLAS - was made by a neonazi to push his neonazi ideals ingame. This was so egregious that we have mentions in an article by a Canadian anti-hatred organization partially funded by the government. If that's not a damning situation, I don't know what is - but the response wasn't to shut down all lore applications so that we never have such a thing happen again, nor did we even go back and retcon it, or anything of that sort. In fact, we still trust the playerbase to make substantial additions to the lore and game, in spite of no ability to do a full background check on them. My point? We can scrub the mentions in the articles worst-case, but we've stuck with things of comparable awfulness in the past and, to be honest, I'm sure we'll find someone who contributed something to the codebase or something was an awful person in the future - and we won't suddenly revert all their code. It's if anything one of the easiest-to-fix examples of this possible, a name in an article or an ingame memorial; it takes almost no time at all and doesn't have those sticky other connections that lore and code tend to. Ban the user, scrub the name, call it a day.

I don't know how much code this would require, but it's annoying right now that you have to go to the Languages page (rarely linked anywhere and missing some; e.g. Sun Reach) to be one hundred thousand percent sure what your origin speaks. Most pages clarify, but still - I don't see why you would make a Venusian that can't speak Sol Common, or a Xanan that can't speak Freespeak. All I seem to find from this is confusion when someone forgets to take a language, or doesn't realize their planet speaks Tradeband instead of Sol Common, or what have you. Should probably come at the cost of a language slot, but either way - it seems like a nice feature.

Pretty simple. Right now you get a random hair, a random accent, and no facial hair, which leaves you looking like a fairly ugly amalgamation with the wrong accent more often than not. Should probably be accessible when you use exponential growth.

BYOND Key: lorilili Total Ban Length: Permanent Banning staff member's Key: melariara Reason of Ban: Permaban at the request of the player. Reason for Appeal: Well - first, the permaban itself was requested. Though it was requested after a heated exchange which got me two strikes, so I'll address that as well; I obviously got too heated and the cardinal sin was definitely not dropping a topic when told to - more than once, and in an aggressive manner. In the time I've been gone, I've rethought how I plan to engage with the community given the cultural shift against toxicity (which is welcome, even if I was an example of such in this case) with the death of the Relay. Basically, I'll behave myself better, I swear. I requested the ban in the first place so I could have some space and set up some roots elsewhere, which I think will help keep me from getting so heated in the future. Totally understand if this ban stays in place for now, though.

Strongly opposed to removal. It's a fun little role and the ambiguity that it offers as to whether someone is a hostile force or just a visitor seems like a desirable aspect; with it removed, one can simply assume OOCly and reasonably ICly by default that anyone who isn't a crewmember or a passenger is a stowaway and must spend two hours in the No Roleplay Cube. I don't think that is a problem to be resolved so much as an intentional part of the design of Visitor existing. Maybe just add a 'guest pass' item available to Visitors on spawn and to antagonists optionally that is the official 'I am allowed to be here.' item rather than mandating they spend 30 minutes on paperwork or face the brig.

It's been a few months since the last update; anything new?

I think Ublicto's come a long way since they first joined, and I've very much enjoyed my roleplay with Elwood Johnson in the past, and found him to be a solid character despite my initial reservations. I've found Athena as well to be fun to interact with, though I've only done so as an antagonist so I won't yet make too much judgement. Overall verdict? As both Warden and Scientist you've understood round flow better than most, and know when to enable things and when to clamp down. I think these are good attributes in command.

Hi! I'd like to take this application back after more consideration. My quality of writing is not up to my own personal standards for a position like this at this time, after having tried to write out some proposals tentatively.

Ckey/BYOND Username: Lorilili (tesseractpirouette on Discord) Position Being Applied For: Dionae Deputy Lore Developer Have you read the Lore Team Rules and Regulations wiki page?: Yes. No Dionae genital lore Past Experiences/Knowledge: No real relevant experience, frankly. Examples of Past Work: Oops! None! 1. What would you change about Dionae if you could unilaterally do so? Frankly? I'd remove a lot, which isn't the most popular answer but it's the best I have. Dionae are extremely bloated for what lore they have, with origins for Eridani backgrounds, minor religions on EUM, and so on that add a lot of options with the depth of a puddle, no offense to whomever added them - they just don't and probably won't ever hold up to the standards of other origins, and in my opinion the amount of things you'd have to expand upon to keep all these with substance equal to recent things like The Eternal and Xrim reworks would outstrip the current capabilities of the Dionae team. Other than removing things, I would probably want to make at least one branch of The Eternal mandatory for every origin rather than having Th'akh, Qeblak, and so on, as part of a move to centralize Dionae around a coherent point of interest that unites them across origins - something they're sorely lacking, with nearly every origin having their own separate gimmicks that don't generally align. As part of this, I'd want to focus on giving origins special spins on their interpretation of these branches of The Eternal, perhaps with some syncreticism, much like Xrim now has implemented. 2. What do you find is an important theme for the species, or if you believe it lacks one what would you do to remedy it? I think the main theme for Dionae would be - and you're going to see a theme here, as I openly think this religion is the strongest part of Dionae lore at present - those enshrined in the Eternal. Namely the collection of knowledge being the most key theme to all of Dionae to me. In my eyes, almost the entirety of Diona lore is centered around this. There's first of all the different methods of collecting and retaining knowledge, embodied by the separate branches of the Eternal and the different interpretations thereof. Almost everything good in Dionae lore springs from it, such as the Mindtypes (one of the best additions in recent years in my eyes, allowing for a lot of diverse and unique interpretations of Dionae) which include things like Bloodless Bands to Scholarly Songs to Voided Vocals, which are openly shaped by this theme. I think the primary things that Dionae players should be angling at when they apply for or play one are how your gestalt obtains knowledge in general - as embodied by the branches of The Eternal you can select from - but also how that has impacted them, whether from inheriting certain memories through blood or from their experiences in the scholarly arts, and especially the mindtype they've ended up selecting. Right now I've noticed a lot of applications start as "This gestalt was grown on the ship, it had an experience that gave it this long name, and eventually got a job." More of a simple, reasonable sequence of events than anything very thematic. Shoutouts to @dessysalta's application for being incredibly good in particular and touching upon exactly what I'd want to see in one, for a positive example of what I'd like. You can look at my own for a negative example of what I'm describing, ironically. There's also aesthetic themes like those in the song-oriented accents and the long poetic names, but I have a feeling that the question is much more about the general points the lore lingers and/or should linger on. So, I suppose my ultimate answer is that I think that the themes of The Eternal and the pursuit of knowledge are the most key themes, but they are oft-neglected or able to be opted out of in the current state of things. 3. Where would you like to take Dionae Lore? I think I've already made clear what direction I would like for them in general, that being a much-increased stress on The Eternal in general. I've a few ideas that I'd like to propose and discuss regarding the Ichor Eternal and The Narrows, or the Orthodox Eternal's diverged takes in the Eternal Gardens versus CT-EUM, but those are more pinpoint than a general direction to take things. Overall? I'm happy with the direction Caelphon has, as bootlicking an answer that is, and that's a lot of why I thought I'd go ahead and apply this time. I'd probably want to focus personally on refining the different branches and subbranches of the Eternal that different origins have, but in general other things like the grey goo idea interest me as well. Additional Comments: Whilst I currently have plenty of free time, and that's unlikely to change in the immediate future, I have admitted and will continue to admit my general weakness in long-form writing. I'm hoping that this experience may help me in changing that, as well as hoping the amount of time I can theoretically dedicate may help to make up for it, allowing me to take time to work on and refine any project. I suck at spriting and code as well since that was mentioned in the application window.

BYOND Key: Lorilili Character Names: Tsisana Diasamishvili, Delara Attar Species you are applying to play: Vaurca What color do you plan on making your first alien character: 131, 41, 11 Have you read our lore section's page on this species?: Yes. Why do you wish to play this specific race: bugge : ) Seriously though I just find their foreign-ness interesting. All the other alien races are a lot more... human-like for lack of a better term, whilst Vaurca are very firmly 'alien' and very obviously so to essentially any player who interacts with them. I think there's a lot that can be done with them, as evidenced by many of their players and the different angles they all seem to approach from. Identify what makes role-playing this species different than role-playing a Human: I think the most obvious immediate answer is how Vaurcae are purpose-made for their roles, fitting into a strict caste system with a more collectivist orientation in general - there isn't really the human sense of individualism and self-determination. Vaurcae do as their hive and the castes above them in their hive/brood (type Cs) will them to, from birth to 'death.' A lot of this is similar to IPCs thematically, which I've also enjoyed, but this existence being applied to an organic being (which I would probably play as more 'emotional' than an IPC ultimately) differs in the end. There's also plenty of discrimination to be had, and a good amount of gameplay differences, but I'd rather not regurgitate the bullet points of damage modifiers. Character Name: Za'Akaix'Tuq Zo'ra Please provide a short backstory for this character: Tuq was hatched in Phoenixport, 2457 as an unbound warrior of Athvur's brood shortly after the Zo'rane arrival in Tau Ceti. Trained well in virtal reality, not only in the arts of medicine but also in familiarity with humanity, Tuq would be placed within NanoTrasen employment as hospital staff within the city. A serious part of their role here was public relations; not only were they tasked with medicine, but they were to be a positive face of Vaurcesian kind to those they treated. As such, they took up something of an interest in human fashion, taking after their Lesser Queen. After all, the first step in appearances is, well, looking good. A fondness towards humans and their culture had been well-fostered in Tuq, even if humanity rarely happened to return the favor. This business would continue mostly uninterrupted, with the only roadblocks being the typical discrimination that a Vaurca faces, until the acquisition of Phoenixport assets by Einstein Engines. Tuq would quickly relocate to Belle Cote, before shortly thereafter being assigned to the Legion as a medic - just as Tau Ceti faced invasion. This experience would further entrench Tuq's feeling of duty not only towards their Biesellite comrades, but towards the cause of relations with them - the experience of Zo'rane and Biesellite falling side by side served only to further reinforce that their destinies were now intertwined, and they could only prosper together. Returning to their work in Belle Cote, Tuq had a new vigor in them in regards to their outreach efforts, which were redoubled as they studied human culture - even if their newfound obsession with Heroes of Tau Ceti post-invasion is, perhaps, a bit out of place and doesn't impress humanity as much as they might have hoped. They would grow somewhat dismayed at some of the other hives' political inclinations; especially the C'thuric alignment with Einstein, the much-hated ally of their greatest enemy, Sol, and come to view them as turncoats not only against Zo'ra but against the greater destiny of the Vaurcesian kind - even if their obligations to the Zo'ra no longer hold, it's no excuse for such. Worse, still, are the Queenless, who happen to be a disgrace upon the species and set back their work constantly. Come now, and their time in Belle Cote has come to an end as they were reassigned to the Horizon - where, serving as medical staff, the next chapters in their story may unfold - among a much more varied peoples than even those on Biesel itself. What do you like about this character?: I think playing an obviously alien creature with its own goals is fun; I think playing one that's now convinced it and humanity's fates are intertwined as it tries to integrate the two extremely foreign existences is even more fun. I also think it might be a better way to dip my toes into Vaurca than starting with one of the more out-there broods like Xetl. How would you rate your role-playing ability?: I think I'm a lot better than I used to be. I'd say in terms of roleplay I'm very solid and well-established here, even if I struggle with descriptive writing often. Notes: Tuq follows the Zo'rane Modern Pantheon, and I'm more than ready for questions - I really struggled to say much in terms of the story, so I'm hoping that questions might get my noggin joggin' a bit better. I've never been very good at just writing open-ended backstories, I'm more of an improv gal. I'm also not sure about the name; I really struggled to find one that wasn't plagiarized.

I have no opposition to this being mandated of players, but I felt that mandating the agehops to happen with minimal retconning would discourage significantly the behavior of using it as a permanent younger-than-the-main-role slot by... well, not making it that. This is mostly intended to mechanically dissuade the behavior rather than actually be an IC reflection of apprenticeships being at high ages in-universe. There's a number of players that do this already with the justification of 'my character is too young for the full role' so I feel that disabling the idea of doing that would make sense. Basically, the point is to mandate mechanically the requirement to age up into the full role instead of leaving the hole there in the first place; I personally have a philosophy that mechanical restrictions are better than leaving such things to be bwoinked, though, so this might be a divergence in perception. But further I think new players could fall into the trap of making apprentice characters under their main roles' ages and have a bad taste in their mouth when told to retcon their character 7 years up.

Most jobs have a gap of age higher than that required to meet their requirements; see the Doctorate-requiring jobs levelled at 30, or Physician at 25. I don't really get it myself, to be honest.

It'd probably be easier to just change the announcement and add more time to the tunnel access.

I would expect them to retcon their age up or move to another department, much like Surgical Interns impacted by the recent change to Resident Surgeon and the accompanying age change to a minimum of 28. I've also heard of staff requiring ages retconned to avoid people sitting on learner roles permanently, so this wouldn't be without precedent to my knowledge - though I have no evidence of such and it's just hearsay and could be entirely wrong. I don't see why it would be either under the current configuration, but I also don't think the intent of the role was to be played for literally seven years straight OOCly, which is what I'm trying to address.

An admin commented saying this needed a feedback thread, so I guess I'm posting one. I'm just going to drop my opinions here and allow anyone who has counterpoints to counter them. My thoughts on this are very simple. No other learner role allows you to have such a massive gap in age from the actual role except Lab Assistant (which I plan to address at a later point.) See the pharmacy interns, surgeon resident, warden cadet, investigator cadet, etcetera. The values in this PR are taken precisely from the warden/investigator cadet values due to their full roles also being an age of 25. So, this is a step for consistency. This is a learner role. This is not here so that you can play an engineer who is just as competent as the others but is 7 years younger than the required age, just as medical intern isn't there so you can play an 18 year old surgeon for the next 12 years. I think that idea is very clearly not intended, and I don't see how this one is either. Plenty of staff have backed this up whenever I've seen the topic come up, saying they would bwoink people who sit on the role despite full competency for extended periods of time. There is no reason in my eyes to take a slot from new players that are interested in learning the role at all, particularly not for the sake of your character's arc of being a 7-years-younger engineer for the next 7 years, I would say taking learner roles negatively impacts the new player experience in a material way when they are prevented from... well, learning the roles for the previous. The argument I've seen so far is mainly "well, it's been this way for a long time" - nobody has consciously really touched this role's values since 2014. Correct. The other argument has been "this will impact established characters." Yes, that is the point. Established characters shouldn't be in these roles forever. PR: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/17184

I would counter aesthetic points with the idea that this is an in-lore flag, not necessarily a vexillologist's dream; ugly flags exist in real life, particularly for subdivisions of states, so I see no reason that ugly features shouldn't exist for flags ingame so long as they're for a reason.

I think the issue with this is that usually once you're downed you shouldn't go vertical several times and pick up your gun and keep fighting - which is why I got into the habit of tapping downed mercenaries to keep them down in the first place. It's not very fun to seemingly have ended a fight just for them to pick up their gun and full auto blast as fast as they can during the 0.2 seconds they are up while you're trying to pin and handcuff them.

Had them as CMO last round! They managed a somewhat chaotic department with a couple new players pretty well! I'd say they'd make a good member of the standard CMO roster, between their roleplay and management skills so far as I saw. Seemed to communicate with BCs and Command effectively too.