Frances

In an attempt to clarify things, there seems to be two complaints here: -Nasir's toxicity as a character, and his ability to get into confrontations -The means through which Nightmare executes fights while playing as Nasir On the first, I'll say that I never saw Nasir start fights without reason. Yes, he's prone to overreacting, but a lot of people are. That is an IC flaw. The way through which it is carried out does not seem unreasonable to me - characters who get into repeated fights are somewhat of a grey area, especially when things are kept canon - but he's not the first to have done things which have toed the line of what would get an employee fired, and as far as I know, we've never asked people to stop playing characters unless this was a constant and repeated issue. He has the right to start fights like that, from a RP standpoint. Should he still be allowed to come in to work after it happening so much? That's something for Nightmare and other players to discuss, and find grounds to agree on. On the second complaint, which is fighting and pain RP. I'll go ahead and say that Nasir is a fairly robust character. He's a Tajaran, has the claws damage bonus, and it can be fairly safely assumed that the Tajaran physique is more built for combat than the human one. He's also not some 22-year old nurse fresh off med school - working cargo jobs, it makes sense for him to be tough. Now, there's a point at which we usually intervene - for example, when someone keeps fighting with two broken arms, or powers through being shocked multiple times to hack out of their jail cell. But if your complaint is essentially that he managed to outrobust three security officers who stunned him several times, I'm actually going to turn to the sec officers, and inquire as to why they were unable to subdue him when he should have been, by all accounts, stunlocked and handcuffed the moment he went down. There's such a thing as violent offenders. You stun them, cuff them, and you're done. As long as they're not spamming resist ten million times after being caught, or trying to escape by going on a spacewalk without a suit, I'm going to call this an IC issue. Lastly, on metagrudging: I'd like to know exactly what the history these two characters had. I think there's limits to the metagrudging rule, and it's in place to prevent people from hating on characters who outrobusted them while antag in a previous round, for example. But certain negative experiences will carry a level of canonicality - you can't be a dick to your staff every round, then expect them to treat you nicely forever because "negative interactions aren't canon unless agreed".

On flashing: The botanist flashed Nasir once - and since nobody made any efforts to stop/restrain him, once he shrugged off the flash (basically got up from being stunned), he began fighting again, because the botanist kept punching him repeatedly while he was down, over ten times. The only person Greg got to flash was a very unfortunate engineer bystander. Nasir was not flashed again until the quadruple flash, and was well within his right to continue fighting. Now, having read all of these replies, here is my take on it, as well as what I propose: -Nasir's response to the botanist was justifiable ICly (the botanist kept punching him, little was made to stop him, you'd be pissed) -Greg's response was excessive, but justifiable ICly (Greg might not have had the best reflexes or judgement in the heat of conflict, not being an experienced fighter - his intent was clearly to stop the fight. If anything, the quadruple flash would have been an IC issue) -Nightmare's LOOC comment was done in the heat of the moment, and had nothing to do with his quality as an admin (which is why it wasn't sent through a PM) - people are still allowed to express themselves and have thoughts, and the full situation from both sides wasn't known at the time. Let me know if we can all agree on these points, and if so (or not), how you'd all wish to proceed.

As proven by the logs posted, Greg did not successfully flash Nasir one before the spam-flashing, thus giving him no incentive to go back to fighting, as the fighting hadn't been interrupted per se.

All of this was fairly irrelevant. The botanist made no attempts to roleplay before being beat up, and simply resorted to throwing banana peels randomly (there are absolutely no speak or emote logs on his character for his entire round before the fight except for two sentences), which constitutes imo an unacceptable breach of character, and makes for terrible, terrible roleplay. I would also note that said player has gotten into several incidents with the staff over their roleplaying in the past. Just setting things straight.

As taken from our rules: This is something you should know, had you read our rules. You should also have a fairly general idea that ganking (killing without interacting with the players much) is also a bad thing - which is what you did, basically decapitating players without reason because there wasn't much time left to the round.

He's not going to close the thread, I believe he was simply asking if there were other things you guys wanted to bring up.

No. The fight was caused by the botanist doing something dumb he had no business doing. Nasir did react by physically bullying him, but he was withing the right to, rp-wise. The quadruple flash was excessive, especially given it had no precedent. (No matter how much running there was, Nasir wasn't neutralized until that point.) Especially as a head - there's nothing wrong with losing your shit, as a PC. But PCs in positions of power (heads, sec) should really not do it as often, and certainly not in situations that don't personally involve them. I think staff are players too, and are allowed to express their opinions - which is exactly why this wasn't done in ahelp, which would have carried authority, which wasn't the point there. In hindsight, I'd actually say that Nightmare was in the wrong with his complaint, given that you were simply trying to break up a fight which was becoming a major, immediate threat, with no security around (the complaint was about you overstepping your bounds, which you did not). But I don't think that takes away his right to comment on a situation immediately - I do believe you had the chance to discuss the issue in more depth, and in a more mature manner, over PMs afterwards.

Alright, I tried to recover the logs as best as I could. Here they are: Here's a few things I'd like us to observe from this: -The character who instigated this was Mocheeze's botanist. I would like to point out that there were no previous logs from that botanist that round, aside from two unrelated sentences being spoken earlier. It would seem this character joined the round, and immediately proceeded to try to slip people on banana peels. -The sequence of events (left out of the logs, as these didn't leave logs) goes as follow: Botanist slips Tajaran on banana peel, Tajaran reacts by slamming botanist in glass, botanist begins punching the shit out of Tajaran. -I would like to report that in my history on the server, I've never witnessed Nasir instigate conflict. He reacts to it explosively, which causes him to end up in it often. But I never found that the force used by Nightmare was unjustifiable, ICly. -If I were to intervene in this as an admin, the only person who I would really consider at fault here was Mocheeze (the botanist), because he had no business trying to slip people with banana peels at escape, with no RP. -Both Nasir and the CMO's (Greg) reactions were justified (fighting back against an opponent, and using whatever means were available to break up a fight, respectively). -Nasir was only flashed on one incidence, the quadruple flash which brought him down and ended the fight. -No bottles were used during the fight. I searched the logs specifically for the message that shows up upon one being used as a weapon, and found no trace of one during that incident. -Both the botanist and the CMO used a flash at some point during the fight (the botanist first). It would be interesting to know how either came in possession of a flash, seeing as neither of them would be expected to have one.

Thank you. Unbanned.

As a note regarding Space Law/Corporate Regs, both "Sexual Harassment" and "Sexual Assault" are recognized offenses, and "Attempted Murder" carries out the same sentence as murder.

There are certain types of suicide that are frowned upon. Realistic suicide (lethal injection as a doctor, going on a spacewalk until you run out of air, ODing on something) with IC reason are things we wouldn't even bat an eyelid at - and if you're confident in your ability to RP, then go ahead. But otherwise, as a general rule, we ask that people adminhelp before suiciding because most suicides end up happening in extremely silly ways, over extremely silly things (cutting your own head off or stabbing yourself with a knife 49 times because someone you just met insulted you). And sadly, most suicides in perma end up happening because of that - griefers, or chucklefucks, who once caught, decide to take their act one step further, by carrying out one last ridiculous action (punching themselves to death). I think that's about all the info I can think of that'd be relevant to your case. You seem sincere, and like you have a good understanding of what happened here, so I'm lifting your ban.

Ban lifted. See you in game.

Jobban appeal locked as the user has been permabanned from the server. You may still post an unban appeal for the permaban, if you wish.

Archiving. Send me a PM if you'd like me to reopen it, but I was under the impression pretty much everything to be said here had been said.

Archiving complaint, as it's over a month old and the user concerned has left the community.

While I make no promises, I know N.E.W.L.E.'s player, and will try to rely to them that there is a complaint up on the forums next time I see them in game, so that dialogue can be established.

Archiving this complaint as it's been inactive for a while. Since it concerns myself, I'll add that you should feel free to reopen the topic (by starting a new thread) should you feel the need to.

The age requirement is there for a reason on most head roles. Even if you feel like your character would be apt at leading, there is no way that a 25 year old (which would put you as a very recent college graduate) would have the necessary experience to be trusted in a position that oversees an entire space station's systems.

I asked around a bit today, and couldn't get a reply from any of the staff. Since nobody spoke up, I assume there's no objections. Thus, since what you wrote seems reasonable, be unbanned. Do keep in mind you're on a last chance. All server rules still apply as usual, and you're being granted an unban under the assumption the issues that caused you to be banned in the first place won't come up again. See you on the server, and have fun playing.

Also in favor. Dunno the incident, but it's been a really long time, and the appeal seems reasonable. Feel free to go ahead and unban them if you wish (unless anybody raises any objections), and I can process this thread tomorrow.

As I specified in the announcement thread, mod apps were due to close last Friday. As such, I'm afraid we can't accept this, though feel free to save it for the next round of applications. You'll find your thread in the archives, once we're done creating them.

Unban request denied due to user inactivity.

This is by very definition being smug. I think that post pretty much seals the deal for me. Skull almost always fills out ban reasons, and if he left yours at the generic one, it likely means that you were a griefer, or messed up in such a way that your ban didn't warrant an explanation, as it was to never be lifted. However, since you can't recall why you were permabanned (which is usually something most people pay attention to), and admit that you were likely banned "due to [being] a dick" - and we don't hand out these bans lightly - given that you've managed to more or less keep up that persona in this appeal, I'm safe to assume that you fucked up majorly at some point in the past. Perhaps, if you had proven to be more understanding and sensible, we would've been willing to work with you. But given you've done little but act like an asshole in this appeal, I'm given no choice but to deny it.

Yes. Why is this bad as a maintenance drone, specifically?

After reconsideration, it seems to me that you've yet to learn your lesson about what is acceptable in a job or not. Just earlier tonight, an admin had to talk to you because you joined as a completely limbless character in sec. I don't understand the train of thought under which NanoTrasen would hire quadruple amputees to carry out security business on their space stations, but unless you can provide to me a compelling reason why I should trust your judgement on what constitutes an acceptable character to play, I'm tempted to mark this as a no.