MagnificentMelkior

Have you ever played a geneticist? Because without block injectors it becomes impossible to ever construct an ideal genome without good luck. If you don't believe me try it yourself. It took 20 minutes for me yesterday as a bald geneticist to get hulk, TK, morphing, no prints, and x-ray. It is stupidly easy to construct the ideal genome with or without good luck. If I wasn't focusing some of my effort on roleplaying or talking, I could've had all of the genetic powers in one sitting. I ran into blindness once, but it was an extremely easy fix. I see. I assumed time figures were to get a 100% completely ideal genemap with an ideal genome in your body, but yea if you just stop when you get what you wanted you on average will have lower times. Anyway, I didn't say its impossible to construct an ideal genome without good luck. I said that without block injectors. I suppose an approach to genetics that favored getting what you need and getting out instead of getting a perfect genome may be able to be done without block injectors, but getting the perfected form instead of the quick-robust form is going to practically require block injectors, or perhaps dumping a river of antiradiation drugs into the monkey in the tube to reduce random mutations to a low chance. But then you are just making the code even more complex... but more importantly, there should not be two seperate types of genetic damage, for the purposes of making sense to medbay who are confronted with the issue. This I would believe, and for this reason I would not oppose tweaks to genetics that would help to limit the spreadability and portability of genetic powers (remove bulk injectors, need dna modifier to use that effect.) as I've touched upon in Evilbrage's thread, but this proposed change would truly cripple genetics. Genetics has some of the strictest IC requirements, including advanced psychological screening, of any non heads. This is justified by the potential power of the profession (although again, I would not mind certain tweaks.) Those roleplay expectations are not supported by Aurora Lore, at least not anywhere I've been shown, and I've asked multiple times. So they are known quantities (at least to geneticists themselves - I imagine that someone or someones already got credit for their discovery and papers are written about it.), and thus they are not "scary" to a rational geneticist because Working with these things are about half of what geneticists do. Dangerous, yes, they are to an extent, but not to one that a trained professional cannot reasonably avoid the danger.

Genetics serves multiple purposes but research into modifying SEs and the results of these modifications are indeed a purpose of genetics.

I'm not saying admins suck unban pl0x. I'm saying that it seemed obvious that it wouldn't be a short ban. If they denied your invitations then it would stand to reason they'd continue to. But you're right that that doesn't need to be discussed in this thread, its not the point. However, I still think Meta should be unbanned and just told not to play Seon or any similar character. Its unfair to just assume she's incapable of doing that.

Yea I founded a games club in high school. I like Chess, The resistance, Nuns on the Run, King of tokyo, Poker, Betrayal on the house on haunted hill, and others in roughly decending order. (The groups available could kick chess down a few levels.)

This was pretty much ruled an administrative matter (And not a DO matter) because it was NOT a decent character just being a butt and being stupid. It was a character that does not fit within the confines of the rules and established universe. This was intended to be an extremely short term ban, I expected Meta to simply look at the long lists of flaws that the community hurled at them, and then FIX SEON within a day or two at maximum. Which Meta has utterly failed at doing, as far as I can tell in this conversation. Frances (And other people) are attempting to establish intelligent discourse in-order to assist Meta in fixing their character, to which Meta responds with "I fixed it" while actually making no changes of significance and avoiding said intended intelligent discourse. And While I may just use that method for further instances, this thread and the other threads about Seon have thoroughly convinced me that Meta is honestly not (yet) capable of creating a sane, reasonable and well-rounded character. Thusly, I don't believe any good would come of that, and so here we are, until Meta corrects his character, the ban will remain in place. Edit: If a significant improvement is not made within the next day, I will be denying this appeal. Meta can then use his "What do you think of Seon?" thread to attempt to refine his character creation further in anticipation of the next appeal. How did you think this would be an extremely short ban? Its asserting that her character is bad (she has to ask how), then theres the whole "okay why are those things bad, explain, and what changes would be satisfactory?" Which is still not completed, and then theres the editing and review of her records. There is no reason to think this would have been an "extremely short ban." So its established that a significant detail was wrong in your mind during the inception of the ban. I question the legitimacy of this ban on that ground (would probably make a staff complaint if i were directly involved) and on the grounds that the issue, if there is one, is with this character. You could easily tell her to play a totally different character until this is resolved. Its unfair and most likely wrong to just preemptively assume any other character she makes would be unfit for the station. So remove the ban, and let her play something else until this is resolved.

No more time-consuming than it is at present. You'd know which blocks do what and could zap them on the desired individual accordingly (or, with some anti-rad medication on hand, use the feature that copies all of the SE blocks of an individual.) The point of the suggestion is to make it time-consuming, as opposed to figuring it all out thirty minutes into the round and cursing everyone with inevitable chucklefuckery, or worse, an entire security force with X-ray and remote viewing. You thought they were bad before? This suggestion was employed after watching a round of that in action, and I don't think I could stand a repeat. And How would you know what blocks do what? The way you figure that out is be injecting said block into yourself (or a cooperative lab assistant). But if its muddied up with other blocks how are you supposed to isolate it? Anyway, 30 minutes into the round is very early... fastest I've ever done it is 45 and that was lucky, and I'm the fastest geneticist that I've seen. An issue I find as an antag is that its not worth the 50-90 minutes of die rolling to become optimal, and I'll cut and run with what I've got before then or just do non job specific antag stuff (or better yet I make a lab assistant do the grunt work for me). I'm sorry if someone made the entire security force psychic, that does suck and I'd never do that. If remote viewing were up for nerf or even removal I'd understand that. If someone were to go all out with remote viewing they could ruin a round. The self-testing isn't the issue. The issue is the players running around and using telekinesis to move absolutely everything around and slam people, only to then expect players to feign ignorance as to what the issue is because omg u metagaem otherwise. The issue is the hulks who bash through walls and blame it on the "mental effects" of the disorder. The issue is the "remote view" that can, more or less, instantly locate an antagonist in the process of his deeds (think an AI that doesn't rely on cameras.) That's why why need definitive hulk lore, for one, and call security on geneticists who abuse tk. Lore about genetic powers is that they are known things, and the guys head glows blue (which different people interpret differently, but the point is its a distinct and obvious visible effect of some kind. Lore follows mechanics.) Seriously someone doing that is commiting at least two crimes (leaving the lab with gene mods active, unless they have permission from the RD or higher) and assault or battery. I can't imagine why security wouldn't arrest a geneticist for doing something like that especially with the hatred a lot of people have for genetics, but regardless that's on them, not genetics as a mechanic. If "command permission" meant anything in terms of mechanical balance, I might be inclined to agree. However, as we've established, scientists who're using and handing out lab equipment are punished about as often as security officers themselves. Self-testing geneticists are the target of the occasional head of staff's ire, but they are largely ignored until they become green and start punching walls. As for reverting them back to normal, 1u of Ryetalyn still does the trick, as always, so I don't see any particular difficulty there. Again self testing is not a crime, not irrational, and not a problem (as you've admitted). The problem is geneticists who smuggle their powers out of the lab and apperantly cause problems with them. As for ryetalyn, yea that works but its not the easiest way to take out a genetically modified person because you need a chemist on that actually made ryetalyn. Usually when someone needs depowered the staff comes to me as a geneticist to fix it and I can do so with a clean SE syringe. And speaking from experience, geneticists leaving the lab with powers are often met with ire. I don't leave the lab with genemods active unless I'm literally forced to, or theres a medical emergency. People can and do call security on me when I leave my lab, even just to pop into medbay, and if they don't I can only assume its because they don't mind that much in character. Well unless you specify what a complete SE overhaul would mean I can't respond to this, but as it currently exists, block injectors are necessary. Trying to work without them would be a logistical nightmare at best, utterly intractable at worst.

Have you ever played a geneticist? Because without block injectors it becomes impossible to ever construct an ideal genome without good luck. If you don't believe me try it yourself. Yes, drugs can have custom metabo rates, but how granular can it be/ how small will you actually make it? How long is a 5 unit dose going to last? Unless its something like 10 minutes its not going to be feasible to work with, and even then I doubt that it will be usable by Urist McDetective. And again, permanent damage is a horrible idea. Nothing else I've ever seen in ss13 does permanent, irreparable damage and there is a reason for that. If you've got a problem with the genetic damage thing, fix that. Don't stack some other thematically identical system on top of it. As for thermals, I don't know how to make them myself because I never played R&d, but I know (from watching isiah fraser) that you can powergame science even faster than you can powergame genetics. There is a material cost to it, but thats because its balanced out by a total certainty of outcome which you can't get in genetics (or xenobiology, which is also all random numbers, plus a trivial chemical cost and low danger. The parallels for genetics are the hyronalin/dylovene you need, which you have to get from somewhere else to begin your testing on live humans, and the danger of breaking your bones and suffering other radiological effects if you are too eager with your testing.) Why do you want to implement this system? What pros do you think it will offer? Because Evilbrage's thread seems to have a much better central premise: Limit the availability of powers, rather than nerf them. An idea from there that I like and would support is removing injectors except for block injectors, and making multi-gene changes require the DNA modifier. I think an H.G. Wells time machine setup would be cool: the operator can be inside the machine and use it on himself. I think the computer should still be the main way of using the machine though. You could lock out the subject inside the machine with a button where the button to trap them in the machine is.

This idea is somewhat redundant and I don't like that. What do I mean by this? Blindness is already a genetic disability, and you want a seperate cause of blindness here. Genetic Damage is already a thing, and you want a seperate thing called Genome Damage. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And I also really don't like the idea of genome damage being irreparable. Why not just inflict Genetic Damage, which already exists? You can die from that too. Also, Ryetalyn should cure genetic damage: that's the whole stated purpose of the drug. But that doesn't work, or doesn't seem to anyway. With all that said: Why do you want to nerf genetics so hard? Most of the functions of genetics (but not all) can be replicated by other departments. If having xray vision wrecks your body, then 1: its no longer equivalent to the vampire power, which is a minor bit of lameness (I like the idea that genetics is a way to modify the biomechanisms of the human body in the same way that other biological entities naturally (or supernaturally) achieved. 2: It becomes drastically inferior to other options. Because of how fast chemicals diminish, you could not just keep yourself on drugs to maintain xray vision for any real amount of time. And you want to inflict irreperable damage with each successive syringe injection, so curing it and reinjecting it, which is already a huge pain in the inventory slots, isn't a good option either. Implementing this suggestion would nerf genetics into the abyss. It would not be possible for anyone except a prepared chemist or the geneticist themselves to use the gene mods, which I don't think is a good thing as it limits the departments utility to the station as a whole, and even for a genticist it would be pretty much unplayable.

I don't think that accusations in and of themselves should be in any way indicative of guilt. If TF has 1000 complaints against him before this and successfully defended himself every time, then it wouldn't matter. Any other position violates the principles of Anglo-saxon justice upon which most successful societies base their laws. So if you think TF should fry for this, please focus on this specific instance. I don't want to see a precedent of accusations = guilt established here.

I got the impression he wanted to remove those too. But if not, that's actually a neat idea. And if I wanted to turn people into superheros with only block injectors I'd like minimum 6 injectors a pop, which is just untenable... but still, this presents the problem of clean SE syringes not being a thing.

As someone who mainly plays genetics, This by itself is not a good idea. The DNA modifier itself is a horrible way to put specific gene blocks into a target. It would simply be much too time consuming to test all the blocks, compared to reaching completion in any other field of science, even for a very experienced geneticist. Another issue: why is self testing such a horrible thing? It stands to reason that the person who works with these powers every day is going to be the most qualified to actually employ them effectively, not to mention its not irrational to inject yourself with something that you have determined is reasonably safe, which is a claim any geneticist who discovered every power on an extended round, at the very least, can make. Also it would mean that in the event of a genetically modified individual leaving the lab and doing evil, it would be much harder to revert them back to normal. Why not just use DOs and/or Admins to deal with a geneticist who would widely distribute powers without command's permission, as a person who did that would get fired just as quickly as a scientist who handed out proto-pistols and energy shields.

I like that you made this list because its a useful way to organize the dialogue. I'd like to address them point by point, based on the current version of Meta's records as of this writing. I don't think anything in her experience tab is hard to believe except for the four years in a biotech firm. I think "Top geneticist's lab assistant/student" for 4 years could be changed to something like 2 years custodial staff 2 years lab assistant in the same place. (its not that out landish to land a cool job in highschool through connections, and her dad was a geneticist). I would not call her firearm skills extensive. Every kid who grows up on a farm shoots guns, and Seon was born and raised on a farm. Street thug is a bit far. But yes, she's been chastised for this behavior. However, I think this is a character issue and can be resolved by DOs if she gets too far out of line. I don't think it warrants a ban for the player. Would you agree with that? Ditto. I don't think its unbelievable that NT would hire someone who turns out to be creepy, so long as they are capable of supressing that during interviews and the like. Again, does not contribute to a justification for a ban. Granted. Granted. You're restating your last point here, this is not a separate instance of a mary sue trait. I think you make a good point here, and would ask Meta to consider either turning up the negative consequences of her backstory, or toning down the severity of it (specifically with the cop-beating... although being a minor does afford her a certain amount of protection.)

I don't like the utility. Making stuff do stuff so you can stuff your stuff ain't science stuff, it's engineering stuff. Figuring stuff out is science stuff. My suggestion is to remove the utility stuff, remove the useless setup stuff, and buff the stuff out of the stuff for the exploration stuff. But removing the ability to access your own z level limits your exploratory ability. And from a lore perspective, if this teleporter can access other z levels, why can't it access its own? I'm sure SOME explanation could be crafted but its not the most intuitive way to do it. Why do you want to remove the utility of it? Antags are a thing, why not let them use telescience in ways other than teleporting people to another z level with no way home (which your suggestion would make very easy, whereas now you need to know what you're doing at least.)

I like the utility of stealing and saving people with telescience. Its rare enough. And I think the intended purpose ICly is to teleport out to places and explore them.

Really, try any botanist. I've never met an honest botanist.

If its a computer based thing rather than a brain in a jar, yea it will not need to be taught how to add since thats already understood by 2015 computers. But for other things like assembling a PA, whatever that is, I disagree. Doing it multiple times could allow the synthetic to get better at it, if there are different methods that could be done to solve the problem and it does not already know the optimal method.

I think the break room still needs to exist. But switching it with the psych office sounds great.

At the risk of going off topic, the nature and hazard of the Hulk gene as represented in the game would constitute an emergency in my mind. No it would not, but I wouldn't mind if lore were changed so that it did. That's not true. I've asked and asked and never been shown official Hulk lore by the admins. All that is really known is it makes your vocal chords have only a whisper and a shout setting, it makes you green, and it makes you strong, and somewhat unable to control your own strength. It does not make you violent. I've been told to NOT rp it as rage mode by admins, when I asked. So this is not some dangerous and spooky evil scientist move. Self testing is part of a geneticists contract, its allowed and expected. Its in fact the only way to get good results. And its not an unknown phenomena either. The IC explanation for rediscovery of genes every round is that the genes decay to your natural state within the day after the shift. Without the above quote this section has no weight to stand on. I've already addressed self testing, it is necessary. Yea, If I busted out of the lab punching walls or people. But simply getting the hulk gene is not grounds for being considered an active threat to the station. Monitoring, and preparing a way to take me out? Wouldn't be a problem, even if its a bit paranoid. But that's not what happened.

Farreipshi Tip'Tesh is good. That's zealotry to the regs played straight. Sybil, well, that's another story. She gets seemingly emotionally heated, and yells over comms like a shrill woman. There was even the time when she assaulted Richter, attempting to forcefully inject him with a clean SE that would ruin his research. The reason for this was I was yelling over comms due to the fact that I was hulked (in my lab). I think its ridiculous that a research director would take the law into their own hands like this and still have a job. And that's not even the worst part. After I prevented your injections with disarm spam, you left and came back with a flash. You either at this time or just after began your incessant death threats against me. "If you aren't clean by the time I get back there I'm going to kill you." Anyway, I disarmed the flash from you and spent a lot of time keeping you on the ground without doing any damage to you because you just wouldn't stop attacking. The attacks only stopped when the captain herself came into my lab and I told her to calm you down, but if you had come in my lab a third time I would have been well within my rights to kill you. As a non antag, I don't think multiple counts of assault with a planned assassination are good behavior for a non antag, especially a head of staff.

Tagging for interest. I play a Biologist most of the time and it would be good to have something official to go on. I'd also like to add: what are the racial average IQs for all the races? I know that its skrell>human>other xenos with IPC being rather useless to measure this way, but numbers might be nice.

2 parts dark rum, fill with orange soda. Dash of ginger. The perfect Heil Hitler...

@MartyR35 How far does this rabbit hole go!? Martin Richter

@MartyR35 I set out to create new life... and I was horribly successful! Martin Richter

Not sure about theme music, but my battle music would be this most of the time:

And what field would that be? Because lab assistants are a thing and they are expected to be able to do things all over science, as instructed by the full fledged scientists, and they don't require years of study in each field to perform at an amateur level. And Seon I think your character's records are being used against you. You'd do well to make them smaller so that you can be aware of it all and make sure its actually how your character is.