Noir is great and all, but..

[MO_oNyMan]

:-1:

Please stop removing flavor from the game. If you don't like it, don't use it.

 

Clowns were flavour too. Don't see them around anymore. Can't say i'm upset about it

[Banditoz]

:-1:

Please stop removing flavor from the game. If you don't like it, don't use it.

 

Clowns were flavour too. Don't see them around anymore. Can't say i'm upset about it

Probably because the clown doesn't fit in a roleplay environment at all.

[Bauser]

The argument being made is that the trope-filled "gritty noir detective" doesn't fit in a roleplay environment, either. And there's precedent for that, because it's not like clowns are made-up magical creatures, they actually exist - they just aren't valuable to our roleplay. And that's the same claim being made of the "noir detective": it's not valuable enough for our roleplay to encourage it. So it seems as though many of you are just rehashing the same two arguments over and over... "You don't have to use it!" "The game impels you to use it!" "You don't have to use it!" "The game impels you to use it!"

That said, I personally make no claim as to whether this would be a beneficial change or not. I don't like noir detectives, either, but I doubt that getting them to change their clothes will change who they are as players. Because it's not just the clothes that inspire the "noir" theme, it's the entire profession of detective. The association is already there.

[Sparky_hotdog]

Surely the best compromise here would be for you to start with nothing but a shirt, and find a whole range of options in the wardrobe?

[MO_oNyMan]

Surely the best compromise here would be for you to start with nothing but a shirt, and find a whole range of options in the wardrobe?

 

The idea is indeed for you to start with nothing but a shirt (at least until the modern jacket is sprited). The whole range of options in the wardrobe is already available. It's called the loadout. You can pick and choose the attire you want from there (including the noir gear that is being moved from the detective's locker to the loadout)

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

If you're going to remove clothes you don't like and they happen to be armored, then add alternate clothes that retain that armor value. Otherwise it seems you would be trying to shadow-ban the detective from having an armored coat.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

No, you aren't suppose to wear formal wear, you're suppose to dress professionally, as you are a professional. Trench coats aren't formal anyways. I'm in favour for moving the style of the trench coats out of being locked to Detective purely to allow everyone to be able to choose them in the loadout. Remove the armor stats, make them all-use. This way you have all four coats usable rather than just two for Non-Detectives. Same with their suits, actually. It's crazy to me that specific suits are locked behind specific roles. Like I can't come to work in grey slacks and a white shirt because the Detective does as well, or I can't wear black slacks, a black belt and a white shirt because the IAA does. Everyone should be able to wear these combos because they're all just professional work attire and our setting is professional corporate research facility.

 

That is a bad idea. Jobs having a unique set of clothes is not a detriment. It is the uniform of the detective. We have an endless number of other suits you can wear already.

[MO_oNyMan]

If you're going to remove clothes you don't like and they happen to be armored, then add alternate clothes that retain that armor value. Otherwise it seems you would be trying to shadow-ban the detective from having an armored coat.

 

They already have an armored coat. It's called armor vest and it's not being removed

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

If you're going to remove clothes you don't like and they happen to be armored, then add alternate clothes that retain that armor value. Otherwise it seems you would be trying to shadow-ban the detective from having an armored coat.

 

They already have an armored coat. It's called armor vest and it's not being removed

 

A vest isnt a coat. Its a vest. You are removing a piece of armored clothing. They will have one less armored exterior piece of clothing.

[MO_oNyMan]

If you're going to remove clothes you don't like and they happen to be armored, then add alternate clothes that retain that armor value. Otherwise it seems you would be trying to shadow-ban the detective from having an armored coat.

 

They already have an armored coat. It's called armor vest and it's not being removed

 

A vest isnt a coat. Its a vest. You are removing a piece of armored clothing. They will have one less armored exterior piece of clothing.

 

Why would a corporate detective have an extra armored piece of clothing? Even officers don't get one. And they are supposed to be the first response to all violent encounters

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

They already have an armored coat. It's called armor vest and it's not being removed

 

A vest isnt a coat. Its a vest. You are removing a piece of armored clothing. They will have one less armored exterior piece of clothing.

 

Why would a corporate detective have an extra armored piece of clothing? Even officers don't get one. And they are supposed to be the first response to all violent encounters

 

There it is. This was not the intent of the suggestion. You need to replace the trenchcoat with an item of similar armor value or you are nerfing detective as a punishment for their fashion choices.

[MO_oNyMan]

A vest isnt a coat. Its a vest. You are removing a piece of armored clothing. They will have one less armored exterior piece of clothing.

 

Why would a corporate detective have an extra armored piece of clothing? Even officers don't get one. And they are supposed to be the first response to all violent encounters

 

There it is. This was not the intent of the suggestion. You need to replace the trenchcoat with an item of similar armor value or you are nerfing detective as a punishment for their fashion choices.

 

i don't care if you make the detective's clothes mundane or give them armor values of a deathsquad trooper. What i care about is a negative impact on the gameplay caused by pushing a counter-productive gimmick using standard gear items. Whether the detectives should for some reason have armored t-shirts and jeans or not is not the topic of the suggestion. Moreover as already stated the vest is not being removed. If you want protection - wear it, noone prohibits you from doing so

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Why would a corporate detective have an extra armored piece of clothing? Even officers don't get one. And they are supposed to be the first response to all violent encounters

 

There it is. This was not the intent of the suggestion. You need to replace the trenchcoat with an item of similar armor value or you are nerfing detective as a punishment for their fashion choices.

 

i don't care if you make the detective's clothes mundane or give them armor values of a deathsquad trooper. What i care about is a negative impact on the gameplay caused by pushing a counter-productive gimmick using standard gear items. Whether the detectives should for some reason have armored t-shirts and jeans or not is not the topic of the suggestion. Moreover as already stated the vest is not being removed. If you want protection - wear it, noone prohibits you from doing so

 

If it is a nonissue then please pick a jacket with similar armor values to the pr. Such as a leather jacket, bomber jacket, or similar.

[MO_oNyMan]

There it is. This was not the intent of the suggestion. You need to replace the trenchcoat with an item of similar armor value or you are nerfing detective as a punishment for their fashion choices.

 

i don't care if you make the detective's clothes mundane or give them armor values of a deathsquad trooper. What i care about is a negative impact on the gameplay caused by pushing a counter-productive gimmick using standard gear items. Whether the detectives should for some reason have armored t-shirts and jeans or not is not the topic of the suggestion. Moreover as already stated the vest is not being removed. If you want protection - wear it, noone prohibits you from doing so

 

If it is a nonissue then please pick a jacket with similar armor values to the pr. Such as a leather jacket, bomber jacket, or similar.

 

i'm currently awaiting for the new sprite for the jacket from [mention]Itanimulli[/mention]. If the PR gets approved and the sprite would still not be ready i could add one of the existing jackets to replace the trenchcoat

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Thanks! Youre debating in good faith. You had me worried for a bit.

+1

[IAmCrystalClear]

Why would a corporate detective have an extra armored piece of clothing? Even officers don't get one. And they are supposed to be the first response to all violent encounters

 

There it is. This was not the intent of the suggestion. You need to replace the trenchcoat with an item of similar armor value or you are nerfing detective as a punishment for their fashion choices.

 

i don't care if you make the detective's clothes mundane or give them armor values of a deathsquad trooper. What i care about is a negative impact on the gameplay caused by pushing a counter-productive gimmick using standard gear items. Whether the detectives should for some reason have armored t-shirts and jeans or not is not the topic of the suggestion. Moreover as already stated the vest is not being removed. If you want protection - wear it, noone prohibits you from doing so

 

cough cough

Whether it should armored or not is up to debate (i'd rather say no than yes. Detectives already have a vest if they want extra protection. Unless it's a proper uniform jacket).)

 

Also, I play as a airquotes detective main, and my character may name her revolver, wear her trench coat fedora combo, smoke and drink, but yet she isn't a gritty noir detective (that I can really tell, as her player), she's a 25 year old girl who acts like she's 16 when not working and has her smoking habits stemming out of work stress. To me, removing the trench coat and fedora will just mean I either have to pick it up from the loadout screen and lose my character's non-work clothes, or losing her sense of style that she, frankly, is iconic for. I'd much rather go around with the armoured trench coat I've always worn than sacrifice my RP potential to always have my character wear it.

I'm going to say sure, remove the armour values and give a few more options, but don't get rid of something that people actively use, especially if all you're going to do is hand out more trench coats for everyone to use; we have more than enough sec mains and assistant mains going around in trench coats and fedoras.

[Bauser]

Make a new item: a ceramic plate accessory that allows you to add the armor value to any coat/jacket.

[Itanimulli]

i don't care if you make the detective's clothes mundane or give them armor values of a deathsquad trooper. What i care about is a negative impact on the gameplay caused by pushing a counter-productive gimmick using standard gear items. Whether the detectives should for some reason have armored t-shirts and jeans or not is not the topic of the suggestion. Moreover as already stated the vest is not being removed. If you want protection - wear it, noone prohibits you from doing so

 

If it is a nonissue then please pick a jacket with similar armor values to the pr. Such as a leather jacket, bomber jacket, or similar.

 

i'm currently awaiting for the new sprite for the jacket from @Itanimulli. If the PR gets approved and the sprite would still not be ready i could add one of the existing jackets to replace the trenchcoa[mention]Itanimulli[mention]Itanimulli[mention]Itanimulli[/mention]

Er. Please DM details. This must have slipped my mind. (EDIT: Nevermind. I remember. Just been busy irl.)

[MO_oNyMan]

To me, removing the trench coat and fedora will just mean I either have to pick it up from the loadout screen and lose my character's non-work clothes

Loadout can be easily changed from shift to shift as long as you stay inside the point limit

 

or losing her sense of style that she, frankly, is iconic for

Multiple detectives wear the same clothes, i wouldn't exactly call the style "iconic" to one specific character. Moreover the clothes are not being removed, you can still pick them from the loadout

 

I'd much rather go around with the armoured trench coat I've always worn than sacrifice my RP potential to always have my character wear it.

See previous point about loadout not being a fixed character variable (unlike for example name)

 

I'm going to say sure, remove the armour values and give a few more options, but don't get rid of something that people actively use, especially if all you're going to do is hand out more trench coats for everyone to use; we have more than enough sec mains and assistant mains going around in trench coats and fedoras.

i have no idea what exactly the issue here. In the first part the problem appears to be the removal of the trenchcoat, which is untrue (it is not being removed) and you point it out in second part by saying "all you're going to do is hand out more trench coats for everyone to use". In the second part the problem is that you don't want everyone to be able to use trenchcoats which is weird considering they already have access to trenchcoats and some fedoras and you point it out yourself in the third part. Clarify what the concern is if you want me to adress it

[Scheveningen]

Hey.

why not just expand the ward-robe for the detective instead of removing the current status quo

Give people options. Don't take it away from them because you don't like the current aesthetic.

[MO_oNyMan]

Hey.

why not just expand the ward-robe for the detective instead of removing the current status quo

Give people options. Don't take it away from them because you don't like the current aesthetic.

 

As stated multiple times before, the noir items are not being taken away. They are being moved to the loadout. I'm not sure where this preconceived notion of items in the loadout being unavailable to detectives come from but i can assure you it's not true. As for increasing the wardrobe options (as, again, stated before) a new jacket is likely to appear in place of the trenchcoat in the detective's locker. Being uniformed (like the CSI's jacket) it would make more sense for it to be job-restricted and therefore unavailable in the loadout

[Sparky_hotdog]

Surely the best compromise here would be for you to start with nothing but a shirt, and find a whole range of options in the wardrobe?

 

The idea is indeed for you to start with nothing but a shirt (at least until the modern jacket is sprited). The whole range of options in the wardrobe is already available. It's called the loadout. You can pick and choose the attire you want from there (including the noir gear that is being moved from the detective's locker to the loadout)

 

If that is the case, then surely more stuff should be added to the locker. Also as a side note, for this to work, you need to change the wiki, as it basically coerces you into Noir aswell.

[AmoryBlaine]

No, you aren't suppose to wear formal wear, you're suppose to dress professionally, as you are a professional. Trench coats aren't formal anyways. I'm in favour for moving the style of the trench coats out of being locked to Detective purely to allow everyone to be able to choose them in the loadout. Remove the armor stats, make them all-use. This way you have all four coats usable rather than just two for Non-Detectives. Same with their suits, actually. It's crazy to me that specific suits are locked behind specific roles. Like I can't come to work in grey slacks and a white shirt because the Detective does as well, or I can't wear black slacks, a black belt and a white shirt because the IAA does. Everyone should be able to wear these combos because they're all just professional work attire and our setting is professional corporate research facility.

 

That is a bad idea. Jobs having a unique set of clothes is not a detriment. It is the uniform of the detective. We have an endless number of other suits you can wear already.

They have badges, they have their specialized vests, they even have their guns. Why can't the rest of us have access to an array of professional work attire? Detectives are not required to wear the clothing given to them. Their only requirement is being dressed professionally- which can be done with most of the load-out suits.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

No, you aren't suppose to wear formal wear, you're suppose to dress professionally, as you are a professional. Trench coats aren't formal anyways. I'm in favour for moving the style of the trench coats out of being locked to Detective purely to allow everyone to be able to choose them in the loadout. Remove the armor stats, make them all-use. This way you have all four coats usable rather than just two for Non-Detectives. Same with their suits, actually. It's crazy to me that specific suits are locked behind specific roles. Like I can't come to work in grey slacks and a white shirt because the Detective does as well, or I can't wear black slacks, a black belt and a white shirt because the IAA does. Everyone should be able to wear these combos because they're all just professional work attire and our setting is professional corporate research facility.

 

That is a bad idea. Jobs having a unique set of clothes is not a detriment. It is the uniform of the detective. We have an endless number of other suits you can wear already.

They have badges, they have their specialized vests, they even have their guns. Why can't the rest of us have access to an array of professional work attire? Detectives are not required to wear the clothing given to them. Their only requirement is being dressed professionally- which can be done with most of the load-out suits.

 

Cuz its their outfit. You can identify detectives from them. You will be fine not having access to 3 types of suits.

We can make it policy anyway

[Kaed]

Cuz its their outfit. You can identify detectives from them. You will be fine not having access to 3 types of suits.

We can make it policy anyway

 

No one in existence has or ever will enforce a uniform requirement for detectives, because they are security team members in name only. There is no need to have easily recognizable uniforms because they possess no actual inherent authority. They are a support role attached to their department, like the CSI, only incredibly superfluous because literally any security team member could do their job and question people or take evidence from the CSI to compile a case.

The existence of noir clothing is nothing but a tired meme, but it's unlikely to ever be removed because that's just how things roll in this community. Don't try and act like it's their official uniform, though.