Remaking the Library into an Internet Cafe

[VTCobaltblood]

1 minute ago, Arrow768 said:

Generally I do not see an issue with the size of the science department and no need to increase the size of the science department.

As someone who actually plays that department, and after collecting feedback from quite some people playing that department, I do. 

2 minutes ago, Arrow768 said:

The same goes for the "lobby". Other departments (medical / security) have a lobby, because a very large part of their work involves interactions with the general crew.
Where as in science the interactions with the general crew are severely limited. (Mostly due to Directive 4)
If there is no public traffic, there is no need for a lobby.

Science does get public traffic, which is pretty obvious to anyone actually playing it, and I am very surprised that a head developer would claim otherwise. Usually it's mining and robotic repairs, but I get other requests as well. Currently these are accomplished at the Robotics and R&D desks, but these are very isolated from each other, which is an annoyance when they come to an incorrect, or an unoccupied desk, and need to be re-direcred. Another issue is when Science is underpopulated and has no roboticist, but a person with overlapping qualifications, such as a director, is there. The robotics desk is closed, but there actually is a person who can do some of the requests, but can't work both of the desks. I would like it for them to perhaps have an united front room with one desk. 

Separating science and "the general crew" is also a fairly flawed mindset in my opinion, which this also sets out to correct, integrating science into the crew more by giving them a "front" role. 

17 minutes ago, Arrow768 said:

The current station is already huge and I believe at the current time it would be better to see how certain things can be condensed to a more compact and efficient approach than to further increase the size.

Yes, and that's why I am redistributing the space instead of just expanding into the asteroid. However, people playing science, especially R&D, have often complained how cramped and horribly claustrophobic the department is, especially with Burger further shrinking it down. It's very annoying and uncomfortable to actually play it, and we have just lost some space which we needed. It's really about how it feels, and it feels horrible. 

22 minutes ago, Arrow768 said:

Outright removing the external book database is out of the question and the database would have to be incorporated into whatever rework that is planned.
However, that would pretty much require a rewrite of the library code as it is not up to current coding standards.

So it's about reworks I don't know of again? I didn't say anywhere that I am removing the books database, though.

23 minutes ago, Arrow768 said:

I do not believe you have explained why books should disappear when they are removed from the library.

I have already proposed a solution to the problems you've pointed out in this thread.

[Arrow768]

I am going to ignore the snark from your response.

As you pointed out, robotics and science already have a desk facing the main hallway which is used to service visitors.

On 16/01/2019 at 20:11, VTCobaltblood said:

but these are very isolated from each other, which is an annoyance when they come to an incorrect, or an unoccupied desk, and need to be re-direcred.

If a crew member comes to a incorrect desk, they can be redirected to the correct one by the personell present there or by asking on the radio for the correct desk.
If a crew member comes to a unoccupied desk they can use: The ringers, the Radio, the PDA to get the attention of someone who can work this specific desk. Or just walk a few tiles up/down the hallway to the other desk to see if someone is there.

On 16/01/2019 at 20:11, VTCobaltblood said:

Another issue is when Science is underpopulated and has no roboticist, but a person with overlapping qualifications, such as a director, is there. The robotics desk is closed, but there actually is a person who can do some of the requests, but can't work both of the desks.

Again, the same thing from the "unoccupied desk" apply. Ringers, PDA, Radio, walk to the other desk.
The same situation (a single RD working both the robotics and science lab) wouldn't change much with a front desk.
The RD would still have to run around between both labs and wouldn't have a lot of time to sit at the desk and wait for people to come by.
It is quite likely that you would find the RD in the science lab instead of the front desk.

Engineering also has a "front desk", it is very rare that this desk is actually manned by someone.

And you have failed to address the removal of the ooc purpose of the library.

On 16/01/2019 at 20:11, VTCobaltblood said:

So it's about reworks I don't know of again? I didn't say anywhere that I am removing the books database, though.

Oh no, that is just to inform you of a requirement before you touch the book/library code.
If you would touch the book / library code you would have to give it a overhaul and couldnt just copy / paste it over because it is old code that will not pass the review process without some adaptations.
(And removing them is out of the question as the books are one of the few things where the players can actively shape the server)

On 16/01/2019 at 20:11, VTCobaltblood said:

I have already proposed a solution to the problems you've pointed out in this thread.

Indeed. I oversaw that.
The idea of having a reader application on the modular computer framework is interesting but not fleshed out well enough.
We already have IDs for the books, however those ids are static, would not change during the rounds and can be acquired by ooc means.
If kept that way, it would render the "librarian" obsolete for this specific part of the job as once you have the id of a book you can just memorize it and reuse it.
On the other hand side if randomized ids were used, then we would have a strict requirement for a "librarian" to get specific books (although we already have that)
 

 

I believe the outlined suggestion is flawed, as the reason behind it is not to improve the library, but to expand certain sections within research to improve it.
And that is something that would be worth pursuing, however not by botching the library and exposing it almost completely to the main hallway (which in turn severely limits its usefulness)
(I am definitely not saying that the current library design is ideal -> There are quite a few things that can be improved, but the library isnt improved by reducing the space available to it)

Therefore I propose a alternative approach:
Rethink the lab layout on the sublevel.
There is quite a bit of redundancy between xenoarcheology and the former misc research lab on the main level as well as some other labs.
Therefore I would suggest to combine some of those labs, maybe move the misc lab and xenoaflora to the sublevel and combine it with xenoarch/xenobio.
(Maybe even combine the xenoflora / xenobio jobs as its rare that there is a xenobiologist and xenoflorist present and the xenobio qualification should imho cover xenofauna and xenoflora)
This would lead to some overlap, but I dont think that is a bad thing necessarily.
But by doing so you free up a large area on the surface level that can be reused for other things.

[VTCobaltblood]

28 minutes ago, Arrow768 said:

And you have failed to address the removal of the ooc purpose of the library.

What purpose?
Also, okay, these arguments are solid and mine are flimsy. I wasn't really hellbent on adding a real lobby to Research, though I would still like them to have a break room.

28 minutes ago, Arrow768 said:

I believe the outlined suggestion is flawed, as the reason behind it is not to improve the library, but to expand certain sections within research to improve it.

Yes, I am removing the library and remaking it into something else. I feel like a library makes no sense to be present on a space station i the 25th century. Nor does, for example, fax or PDAs. We are clearly not going for a "retro-futuristic" aesthetic anymore, and to my mind, the only reason it's really currently staying is because nobody has stopped to think why we would have a library, and because we've already had it for so long.

28 minutes ago, Arrow768 said:

Therefore I propose a alternative approach:
Rethink the lab layout on the sublevel.

"Fix the problems with the cramped main level by rethinking the sublevel, which is just spacious and pleasant enough to work in as-is, and which few players have voiced issues with". Interesting approach, but I disagree with it.

Edited January 17, 2019 by VTCobaltblood

[Scheveningen]

In all honesty, I don't think the librarian has any actual use on an SS13 server. Even on /tg/ they're revamped into curator which is an unapologetic Indiana Jones reference, and they also get a whip and coat/hat just for the purpose of nonlethally validhunting antagonists as a blockbuster movie hero.

If librarian gets removed and we just have journalists instead I doubt there'll be much of a shake-up in terms of gameplay. Librarians get a very minimal amount of interaction on this server compared to other roles.

...Considering their overall lack of usefulness and all that.

I'd like the internet cafe and an in-game book reader application on computers more than I care for the librarian role.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Scheveningen

[Carver]

As it goes on this suggestion merely seems like a thinly veiled excuse to increase the size of Research at the expense of the Library. I can only imagine there would be a similar thread regarding the Chapel were it in the Library's place. If you seek a break room, consider visiting the library or any other public break area, the minimal department size is to encourage people to interact with these civilian areas/roles instead of cooping up in their department and never leaving.

[VTCobaltblood]

12 hours ago, Carver said:

As it goes on this suggestion merely seems like a thinly veiled excuse to increase the size of Research at the expense of the Library.

This sounds very funny, as if I am a big baddie with an evil plan. I'm not "thinly veiling" it. Yes, I want to increase Research, and to see the library gone. It just so happens I can shoot two birds with one stone.

12 hours ago, Carver said:

If you seek a break room, consider visiting the library or any other public break area

You know that the internet lounge is also a break room, right?

12 hours ago, Carver said:

minimal department size is to encourage people to interact with these civilian areas/roles instead of cooping up in their department and never leaving.

Extremely flawed philosophy that I disagree with on a fundamental level, and won't even bother to untangle. Just no. 

[Stink100]

On the fence with this idea; Books are an endangered species even now though. Borders closed its doors and everyone uses kindles or reads their news electronically.

It could make for some interesting RP too. Having an in-game internet sounds interesting but honestly everyone has PDAs so maybe PDAs could be modified to access an ‘internet’?

Idk.. the space seems incredibly irrelevant to me. An internet cafe even seems like a waste.

i guess it depends on what kind of sci-fi environment Aurora is going for. I always considered ss13 kinda gritty; emulating a more ‘Alien’ movie sci-fi vibe. In that environment a library makes sense.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Stink100