Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 I'm not sure how many people complained about the detective waltzing inside, but in my mind the detective and CSI are part of a specialized team. When Buthaynah was detective I was able to walk into the lab while the CSI was still on scene and go over what evidence he/she had already, and help them sort evidence. Communication was still had, because we both need to know where all the evidence is. Now the detective is pretty isolated, and has to ask permission to get to evidence, potentially wasting CSI time - it feels strange asking someone to stop what they're doing and 'pretty please let me in' to a place I used to have access to, and I don't remember any CSI's having a problem with it. If I can ask, what sort of complaints did CSI players give that warranted this change?
Susan Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 I have witnessed multiple events where the CSI waltzes into the detective's office and steals his gun for 'self-defense'. So in the interest of balance they both lost access, I guess. Sharing access is not required for a cooperative environment.
Hackie Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 I think it's very helpful as a detective when there's no CSI to have access to the lab. I just think it was great to have access because it just helped to pop over, share evidence. Now, CSI grabbing the revolver from the Detective is not allowed, and shouldn't happen. It should really be a one way thing, seeing as the CSI has no reason to be in the Detective's office. Unlike the detective, who could use some of the gear in there and look at the evidence and help out, it feels like you're more of a team.
Guest Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Suggested solution: The safe in the Warden's locker at the start of the round possesses the detective's revolver. Warden can distribute the revolver to the Detective if need be. Or, for simplicity of code's sake, pop it in the armory. Then, give detective access to the CSI for co-departmental fun-times.
Frances Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Nobody should have to rely on another job being filled to gain access to their basic equipment. I don't know how things are currently set up, but the easiest solution would be to lock the gun away in a locker that can only be accessed by the detective, within the office. (You can even keep the old fashioned cabinets, there's a locking version of them the bartender has).
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 The CSI shouldn't be taking the gun, though I fel a total revokation of access is a heavyhanded way to solve the issue. unless the csi got hos clearance (in a signed carry permit) then it sounds like theft they should be brigged for. As for the csi lab itself, its incredibly useful to have acccess to it. I'm p sure I can at least dust for prints, and spray luminol aroundt seems like the main problem is CSI side - a cabinet only the detective can access seems like a fair compromise.
Chaznoodles Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Suggestion: Merge the CSI and Detective offices into one, seperate their two areas by a windoor they both have access to.
Hackie Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Chaz, that sounds pretty cool. But, considering we're getting a new map it might be a bit iffy. However, a windoor seems a bit off. What we could do is have two separate rooms right beside each other.
K0NFL1QT Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 CSIs were taking the gun. Detectives were taking the CSI Kit, or they were using the CSI office as if it was their own and they were just a CSI with a gun. While the two roles perform investigative duties, there is a difference between what they're expected to do. One deals with forensic evidence, the other conducts interviews and has a lethal weapon for no reason. Removing access to each others offices doesn't hinder co-operation, it just stops lab geeks arming themselves or noir wannabes messing up the CSI lab.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 K0NFL1QT, perhaps I'm relying too much on personal experience, but access to the CSI lab as detective was a boon - I was still able to communicate and cooperate, and even act as an assistant for each other if the other was out of the brig. For full disclosure however, if there was no detective and we were at blue alert I'd ask to get the gun, but not do so if denied. If it were possible, I'd think a good way to solve this would be to have some immediate IC way to get CSI and detective to respect each other's workspace and belongings while still working together - proactive HoS and Warden would be a good start, or IAA keeping an eye on the place. CSI shouldn't be armed with anything but their flash outside some unusual circumstance - but detectives do have a massive use for the CSI lab, since their scanner is gone and it's the only way to do anything except sit around and play guessing games based on anecdotal evidence. I mean, I'm pretty sure it wont cripple immersions for my detective to dust for prints or check for fibers - and not be able to do autopsies or handle blood.
Baka Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 If you wanted to play CSI, play CSI. If you wanted to play detective, play detective. Quit touching crap. It's like a nurse going in and doing the chemist's job with no words between departments.
Guest Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 What I experienced as the CSI while Detective still had access to the lab, was arriving a few minutes late into the shift, with no HoS, to find the detective rifling through my lab and taking forensics equipment. Communication is not hard through glass windows, security comms, or you know, since they have SO much free time, in the security office. The Detective and CSI are completely different roles, detective questions people, does searches, and the like, CSI does crime scene analysis, evidence collection, DNA and fingerprint tests. The roles dont really overlap, I just think detectives want a reason to be useful when the CSI isnt there, but no, you are CSI's, stop trying to do forensics. You are there to investigate upon evidence given to you by the CSI, no CSI? Guess you'll have to question them the hard way.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 What I experienced as the CSI while Detective still had access to the lab, was arriving a few minutes late into the shift, with no HoS, to find the detective rifling through my lab and taking forensics equipment. Communication is not hard through glass windows, security comms, or you know, since they have SO much free time, in the security office. The Detective and CSI are completely different roles, detective questions people, does searches, and the like, CSI does crime scene analysis, evidence collection, DNA and fingerprint tests. The roles dont really overlap, I just think detectives want a reason to be useful when the CSI isnt there, but no, you are CSI's, stop trying to do forensics. You are there to investigate upon evidence given to you by the CSI, no CSI? Guess you'll have to question them the hard way. Â Except dusting for prints is something you can expected to do reasonably well if you have even the minimal training. We should be encouraging the players who do this to change their behaviour, not slam down on everyone and make it awkward for the others who are trying to get work done with each other. If this falls flat I suppose I'll have to rely on a sympathetic HoP. 9_6
K0NFL1QT Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 You can order forensic tools from Cargo. There's no problem helping to gather evidence, so long as you can keep traces of yourself off it. The Detective even starts with a box of evidence bags with which to ferry stuff to the CSI. I think I've only paired with one Detective as a CSI that I really enjoyed. That was Peter Stone. Yes, he did walk into the lab freely, but only to deliver evidence and ask for reports, and then we chatted about possible leads in ongoing cases. Then he went back to snooping around the station and grilling suspects, I continued analyzing evidence and compiling reports for the next time I'm asked. He didn't mess up the lab and he didn't take anything without asking. It was fun. Yes, I imagine it sucks to be a Detective and not have a CSI at your back now that you can't walk in and use the lab as if you'd spent the several years it takes to actually get into criminal forensics. But that's the price you pay for choosing the edgy noir wannabe with a gun instead of an actually useful labgeek.
LordFowl Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 There's nothing more annoying than another job walking into your workplace and doing your own job. Whether it be a Xenobiologist becoming a Telescientist, a Detective becoming a CSI, or a Roboticist becoming a Surgeon. While arguably these three roles share a common denominator (Telescientists and Xenobiologists both technically deal with Bluespace, Detectives and CSI both technically deal with crime scene analysis, and a Roboticist and a Surgeon both technically deal with surgery) the link is so tenuous as to warrant specialization on both ends. I believe only during times of critical need should anyone fill an occupation that is unfilled, while simultaneously filling their occupation. And if such a time of need arises, there are multiple ways of doing this, from the HoP to the Captain to the AI to a Cyborg.
K0NFL1QT Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 I think the main problem is that the Detective is currently quite undefined, so most people presume a Detective is just as qualified for forensic analysis as the Crime Scene Investigator. This is not true, due to the differing paths of education/training it takes to become either, and the investment of time it takes to achieve these qualifications. To be a Detective, most countries require you to first be a uniformed officer and then take an examination, or attend a course through some law academy, to qualify for promotion. This is probably why they're allowed a lethal weapon; because they are essentially officers who have skills greater than simple enforcement and display good deductive reasoning. In SS13 the Detectives role is largely that of interrogator, and when they have no-one to question they should be out snooping around the station for clues. A CSI, or more commonly a Forensic Scientist, is a highly academic position that requires degrees in forensic analysis. The analysis of cadavers requires a degree in forensic pathology, so most CSIs should be medically trained. These qualifications take several years to achieve, which is time not spent as an officer and vice versa.
Kane Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 I think it's best to leave the basic job equipment in the respective offices and keep the CSI/Forensic Tech and Detective as separate positions. If the CSI were really to need a weapon, it could be implemented or just distributed by the Warden(With a permit?). I like having to ask the CSI to let me into their lab, and it makes sense they wouldn't want some detective stinking up their lab and evidence with the stench of tobacco/stealing the forensics kit, and the detective certainly doesn't want to lose their nifty revolver to some lame techie.
K0NFL1QT Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 So apparently this happened and Detectives have CSI access again. I need to test if the CSI got Detective access back too.
Jakers457 Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 It seems like the Detective is getting penalised out of the whole debacle.
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