Player Complaint - BurgerBB

[Scheveningen]

BYOND Key: Scheveningen
Accused Players Byond Key: BurgerBB/Burger#3948 [discord tag]
Time of Act: Recurrent
Reason for Complaint: I was wrong. It is not the weird entangled web of people just behaving like dicks to each other on happenstance. Everything happens for a reason. The current issue is specific individuals that, when they are present, make participating in the community and conversing with others a very draining and horrible experience.

Burger is no exception to this. Ever since he started in this community, his attitude has been flat-out awful to other individuals. He warps facts and context to better suit whatever flavor of the month issue he brings up to the community. If there's nothing he comes up with by himself he'll piggyback with his own input on an issue but the fashion in which he conducts himself makes the conversation incredibly unpleasant given his typical demeanor and method of addressing 'issues.' He is a constant negative influence to others, and when he sees someone do something that he considers wrong, he attempts to crucify them with twisted truths to degrade the standing and integrity of other community members. It appalled me when he actually became a staff member despite inevitably not changing his demeanor at all while he was a staff member. It was a breath of relief when he stepped down.

He has constantly employed the tactic of gaslighting, a method used to derail actually discussing the subject and making a matter of "arguing the points" into "arguing the person". Anytime he's subject to any form of criticism regarding anything he does, he has gotten incredibly defensive, hostile, and he would employ guilt-trip tactics to try to win any audience around him to sympathize with the plights that he creates himself. The older players who have dealt with Burger are aware of this pattern of his. I'd wager the server staff is just as aware about the problem as well. You cannot 'discuss' with Burger, nor can you rationally 'argue' with Burger. His only care in the world is his way of doing things. God forgive you if you dare think differently. I've been fooled too many times already by Burger's fucking antics. 

I am not interested in having a conversation with Burger. I am not interested in any sort of compromise with Burger. I no longer care about any plea he makes about really wanting to be here to participate in the community, and I don't care if he says he'll improve. I do not care. He was given a multitude of chances to improve. Literally look at his first discord posts and look at the tone of his forum/discord posts now. What has changed? Very little, which is just as much as "absolutely nothing".

I absolutely hate making threads like these. I do not take joy in asking for the permanent removal of an individual from a community. Whether I like the person or don't, I think everyone deserves chances, but Burger has squandered many of them and has never since changed for the better of the whole of this community. In my ideal vision of a community this would never be necessary because everyone would get along and have scintillating, wholesome and fun discussions about shit we enjoy in a video game. Burger is not someone who cares for any of these things. He is here to get pissed off and then try his damndest to piss everyone else off. His methods that have never changed over the course of over a year now. If he cared at all about this community, he'd take feedback from others and have changed himself long before this stupid thread being written out.

And I get how this process works, the staff do not like to permaban people either, even regulars that have full reason to be removed permanently. But I ask the staff to consider: Remove Burger from the community. I am absolutely sure you have enough precedent to do this. I believe absolutely that the community would be better off without him as well. He has nothing to offer to this community anymore except more unneeded negativity, toxicity and borderline harassment of other players. I'm tired of the constant antics he pulls. I do not blame the staff for Burger still being around, because I can connect the dots and make a conclusion as to why he's still here. If he had any other reason to be elsewhere, he would be elsewhere. He is neither a regular contributor nor a developer anymore. There is nothing to lose by removing him from the community.

Evidence: 
Recent evidence;

 He made a complaint just recently in which he was full-on at fault for creating a discussion with inherent negativity and pointless bitching. And then pulled the Pikachu surprised meme when Fowl, among other players, agreed that Burger needed to cut the fucking bullshit. Attempts to "hold staff to a higher standard" yet doesn't bother to report other players (among them, myself and Sonic, Alb had other things to say as well) for doing something he perceives as 'wrong'.
 

Twisted facts in a complaint and also both ICly (as his warden character) and OOCly had me convinced Garn and their character was in the wrong for a situation that ended up being a waste of time. Uses Garn's words against him simply for the sake of arguing, not for the purpose of actually trying to discuss how to improve past an issue. Sometimes shit happens in IC, right? Well, no, Burger doesn't think that, and had me thinking it was more than just "shit happens."

Oh, and, the 2 other staff complaints authored by him are literally just "not handling an adminhelp the way I wanted." 

[BurgerBB]

I will promise myself that I will not post in here often because I do not think it would be health to me nor a productive conversation.

I've read through some of this and it's quite difficult to rationally address this as it makes a lot of bold claims without proof, and sometimes sprinkling on "Everyone knows this." which quite frankly hurts.

Quote

Burger is no exception to this. Ever since he started in this community, his attitude has been flat-out awful to other individuals. He warps facts and context to better suit whatever flavor of the month issue he brings up to the community. If there's nothing he comes up with by himself he'll piggyback with his own input on an issue but the fashion in which he conducts himself makes the conversation incredibly unpleasant given his typical demeanor and method of addressing 'issues.' He is a constant negative influence to others, and when he sees someone do something that he considers wrong, he attempts to crucify them with twisted truths to degrade the standing and integrity of other community members. It appalled me when he actually became a staff member despite inevitably not changing his demeanor at all while he was a staff member. It was a breath of relief when he stepped down.

This is false. I believe that my attitude issues with others started around when the organ damage PR was released. I believe that this was more than a year after I started playing so it wasn't the cause of this.

I believe that several members of the community, including staff, voiced their appreciation in how my behavior improved when I became staff. I would like those people to come forward if that is the case.

When I point out issues regarding how people conduct themselves over feedback or how they make their decisions, my goal is to get them to change their behavior and possibly let them know that this might be an issue. I do not intend to damage their reputation because I do not care about that.

 

Quote

He has constantly employed the tactic of gaslighting, a method used to derail actually discussing the subject and making a matter of "arguing the points" into "arguing the person". Anytime he's subject to any form of criticism regarding anything he does, he has gotten incredibly defensive, hostile, and he would employ guilt-trip tactics to try to win any audience around him to sympathize with the plights that he creates himself. The older players who have dealt with Burger are aware of this pattern of his. I'd wager the server staff is just as aware about the problem as well. You cannot 'discuss' with Burger, nor can you rationally 'argue' with Burger. His only care in the world is his way of doing things. God forgive you if you dare think differently. I've been fooled too many times already by Burger's fucking antics. 

I think you are being very dishonest when you're claiming that I am as manipulative as you think I am. The number one reason why I get hostile with someone is because I've had the displeasure of arguing with them before, unproductively. I think it's entirely reasonable to just say "No, go bother someone else. I don't care what you have to say." to someone who has a history of insulting, randomly provoking, or just generally being a dick to a specific person.

I don't employ guilt-trip tactics and I hate whenever anyone says this about anyone. Just because someone brings what someone feels about something doesn't mean they have the intent to rack up guilt. Also, I do not care for anyone's sympathy. I don't give a shit if anyone hates me; I only give a shit when it becomes an issue, such as them constantly voicing it in the inappropriate context or when it influences actions that should not be influenced by hate.

Claiming that people are aware of this make-belief pattern is not only malicious but just a fucking awful thing to say. Like I genuinely wanted to write up a paragraph on how just fucking awful it is to say about anyone. It's part of the reason why I'm honest and don't fuck around when it comes to issues; it just becomes bottled up to the point where people talk shit behind your back or make a ban request thread like this.

If I was the man you claimed to be, I wouldn't be around. I would've been permanently forum banned by now if I didn't argue rationally. Forum standards are super fucking strict so that should speak volumes about how wrong you are about this. Look into the latest suggest threads I created and tell me where I've gotten out of line with arguing irrationally.

Quote

He made a complaint just recently in which he was full-on at fault for creating a discussion with inherent negativity and pointless bitching. And then pulled the Pikachu surprised meme when Fowl, among other players, agreed that Burger needed to cut the fucking bullshit. Attempts to "hold staff to a higher standard" yet doesn't bother to report other players (among them, myself and Sonic, Alb had other things to say as well) for doing something he perceives as 'wrong'.

If I had an issue with how Alb, or others, conducted themselves during that conversation I would've made a staff or player complaint. I did not because I found very little issue with the things they said. Lord Fowl was the one who was being unproductive, so I chose to make a staff complaint about him. I do not deny that I wasn't negative. I believe I have told Lord Fowl to shut the fuck up and told him he wasn't unfunny. I am not free of sin, but compared to the sin of him, that is nothing.

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Twisted facts in a complaint and also both ICly (as his warden character) and OOCly had me convinced Garn and their character was in the wrong for a situation that ended up being a waste of time. Uses Garn's words against him simply for the sake of arguing, not for the purpose of actually trying to discuss how to improve past an issue. Sometimes shit happens in IC, right? Well, no, Burger doesn't think that, and had me thinking it was more than just "shit happens."

Which facts I twisted? Please post them in the thread there so you can correct the record in the case I was wrong.

Quote

Oh, and, the 2 other staff complaints authored by him are literally just "not handling an adminhelp the way I wanted." 

Okay. If an admin gives a ruling that you do not agree with, you're supposed to make a staff complaint. That is what they are for. That is what alb has recommend. This is what alb has constantly suggested. Whether or not my complaints are valid are up to the people looking at them.

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Arrow768
Removed Background Color

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Burgers behavior was ok as staff (coming forward as he asked) but both of you are incredibly easy to get worked up, so you both become super feisty real fast.

[Lady Fowl]

I and @TishinaStalker Will be handling this

[Arrow768]

Moving this to ban request, since that is what this is:

8 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

But I ask the staff to consider: Remove Burger from the community.

 

[Evandorf]

If we are to deal with documented and logged events, I would like to bring up three recent posts that directly involve Burger. In chronological order they are:
 

A player complaint against Burger's Roboticist character, in which Burger readily admits to metagaming. As the Roboticist, he built a durand and two gygaxes during a rev round in anticipation for being recruited by either the REVs or LOYs. He installed beacons in the mechs and a roboticist console in his lab so that he could monitor who was using them and shut them down if necessary. He also states that his intention was to release these mechs and specific times as the pace of the round dictated. He states he was upset that the REVs/LOYs mainly RP'ed with sec and did not involve him.

A staff complaint made by Burger regarding a decision I made yesterday. It revolves around the fact that during a rev round Burger began making a Gygax, similar to the REV round from the first post, but was subsequently removed from Research on the RD's orders due to the fact that Burger had earlier given security a half finished Ripley as a joke. The Director then completed the Gygax and handed it to security. When Burger ahelped he stated that what the Director was doing was a clear case of powergaming/metagaming. As evidenced by the existence of the Staff complaint, he was not satisfied.

A suggestion thread in which Burger advocates for the reduced capabilities of robotics constructed mechs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In my opinion, taken as a whole, it shows that Burger thinks of himself as a sort of arbiter of RP. When he creates mechs in robotics he deems it necessary to have a means to control who is using it based on his metaknowledge of the round. He does not trust security or it's players to do so or command. When others, specifically the RD, distribute mechs in similar fashion he calls it powergaming and metagaming. When it is deemed valid he creates a suggestion thread to nerf what he sees as the problem.

This is one of the main reasons, I believe, people have issues with Burger. These three posts are fairly clear but in instances where the round is boring or "the antags were bad" I regularly see Burger in OOC sharing this opinion in harsh, condescending, and often insulting ways. When people respond or retaliate with similar language or tone Burger seems legitimately confused as to where the anger and hate is coming from and reports them to staff. It is also possible that he deliberately uses the anger of others to discredit them when they eventually boil over but I can't speak to how likely this is, only that it is a possibility. I genuinely feel like this is more a failure of Burger's to comprehend the full situation and opinions of others and to change his own behavior but it doesn't excuse his actions or how he treats others.

[Scheveningen]

43 minutes ago, Evandorf said:

When people respond or retaliate with similar language or tone Burger seems legitimately confused as to where the anger and hate is coming from and reports them to staff. It is also possible that he deliberately uses the anger of others to discredit them when they eventually boil over but I can't speak to how likely this is, only that it is a possibility.

One's an anomaly, two is a trend. And Burger has done this far more than just twice.
 

43 minutes ago, Evandorf said:

I genuinely feel like this is more a failure of Burger's to comprehend the full situation and opinions of others and to change his own behavior but it doesn't excuse his actions or how he treats others.

Right, but how long has he been here? How many opportunities has he been given to try and understand this? How much unnecessary leeway has the staff given him anytime he goes out of his way to target specific individuals for what are essentially IC issues and then openly harass and attempt to embarrass those individuals?

Mistakes become failures when you refuse to address and fix mistakes. As already demonstrated in his response post, he doesn't demonstrate his understanding of how he affects others at all. He does not care enough to demonstrate that he does.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Scheveningen

[ThatGuyGW]

I want to preface this post with two points:

• I have not know Burger for longer than a period of around 6-8 days.
• In terms of my return to the server, I am a relatively new player, my last period play ending sometime around 2016.

However, in the short time that I have known Burger and seen his actions on the server, discord, and the Forums; I have consistently got a feeling of general toxicity from him. The vast majority of times I see Burger's posts it seems to be either a complaint, whether that be toward Staff, IC actions, or the current state of the server itself. I'm not saying that complaints are bad things, however, and I do acknowledge that Burger has provided input to the server in how he believes it can be improved; but I think there comes the point where if you believe everything is wrong, maybe the issue isn't the server, but yourself.

The fact remains that almost every time I see a suggestion or complaint made by Burger, he seems to choose to attack other people who criticise his suggestions, rather than defending his suggestions themselves. I'll be sincere and say I don't have any evidence to support this; this is just the feeling I have gotten from my limited time playing with Burger. I understand that the time I have spent most likely isn't enough to get a full view of his character and who he is, but first impressions are essential, and I have not received a good impression from Burger.

[Evandorf]

@Scheveningen My intention was just to provide what I consider to be a good example of the pattern of behavior which Burger seems to dispute, either through an inability to see it or in an attempt to obfuscate the issue.

DragO and Tish will have to decide what to do with it. 

[Scheveningen]

1 hour ago, Evandorf said:

@Scheveningen My intention was just to provide what I consider to be a good example of the pattern of behavior which Burger seems to dispute, either through an inability to see it or in an attempt to obfuscate the issue.

DragO and Tish will have to decide what to do with it. 

Right, I understood that, I was applying my own thoughts on the matter.

[BurgerBB]

2 hours ago, Evandorf said:

Yikes.

Right. Let's start with the threads.

Quote

A player complaint against Burger's Roboticist character, in which Burger readily admits to metagaming. As the Roboticist, he built a durand and two gygaxes during a rev round in anticipation for being recruited by either the REVs or LOYs. He installed beacons in the mechs and a roboticist console in his lab so that he could monitor who was using them and shut them down if necessary. He also states that his intention was to release these mechs and specific times as the pace of the round dictated. He states he was upset that the REVs/LOYs mainly RP'ed with sec and did not involve him.

First instance I made a bunch of gygax's I admitted it was a mistake to do it. People have stated to "Make your own RP." and contribute to the round. I attempted this. Failed. Admitted that I will not do this again.

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A staff complaint made by Burger regarding a decision I made yesterday. It revolves around the fact that during a rev round Burger began making a Gygax, similar to the REV round from the first post, but was subsequently removed from Research on the RD's orders due to the fact that Burger had earlier given security a half finished Ripley as a joke. The Director then completed the Gygax and handed it to security. When Burger ahelped he stated that what the Director was doing was a clear case of powergaming/metagaming. As evidenced by the existence of the Staff complaint, he was not satisfied.

Second one was what I did but worse considering the circumstances surrounding it (Getting kicked out of robotics, giving the gygax significantly better equipment.) and the fact that the gygax was made before I knew it was rev. As soon as I saw the announcement, I immediately fell into depression because I had a half made gygax here that I was seriously considering throwing in disposals. I cryo'd after I was arrested, part of the reason for that was so the gygax could never be finished. I think I did the right thing but that didn't matter because the Research Director made the situation worse.

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A suggestion thread in which Burger advocates for the reduced capabilities of robotics constructed mechs.

Third one was me look at all the situations involving this instance and concluding that "It is actually broken how easy a gygax can be made." and made an appropriate suggestion thread. I've done with with every single new job I've played. Everyone knows this. I'm pretty sure it was a meme at one point; someone even said "Oh burger is playing a new job, expect PRs about it."

I don't think you understand how I make feedback threads. I thought everyone was aware of this meme.

1. I play a job for a week.
2. I determine all the flaws of the job.
3. I make PRs or suggestion threads that remove those flaws.

If I was as malicious as you're claiming I am, I would've done the following:

First instance I would've forced myself into a rev or loyalist recruiting situation, breaking character, just so I can have the chance to use a gygax against loyalists or revs. I did not do this.

Second instance I would've broken back into robotics after a rev in security broke me out and recruited me (one of them said they'll try to get me out, I believe it was Armory's character.) I did not do this.

Third instance I would've been complacent with how easy it is to make a mech and not reported the problem in the first place.

To get an idea of how I play, speak to the officer who arrested me during that second rev round. I believe I mentioned this over looc. I stole their baton, but I then threw it at them. I could've harmbatoned them into pain crit, but I didn't. I care more about roleplay than winning.

 

Quote

In my opinion, taken as a whole, it shows that Burger thinks of himself as a sort of arbiter of RP. When he creates mechs in robotics he deems it necessary to have a means to control who is using it based on his metaknowledge of the round. He does not trust security or it's players to do so or command. When others, specifically the RD, distribute mechs in similar fashion he calls it powergaming and metagaming. When it is deemed valid he creates a suggestion thread to nerf what he sees as the problem.

This is one of the main reasons, I believe, people have issues with Burger. These three posts are fairly clear but in instances where the round is boring or "the antags were bad" I regularly see Burger in OOC sharing this opinion in harsh, condescending, and often insulting ways. When people respond or retaliate with similar language or tone Burger seems legitimately confused as to where the anger and hate is coming from and reports them to staff. It is also possible that he deliberately uses the anger of others to discredit them when they eventually boil over but I can't speak to how likely this is, only that it is a possibility. I genuinely feel like this is more a failure of Burger's to comprehend the full situation and opinions of others and to change his own behavior but it doesn't excuse his actions or how he treats others.

Everyone should be an arbiter of RP. It would increase RP standards if people did what they would do unto others and admit their mistakes if they didn't. Me making a mech in the player complaint was a bad move and I admit this. A lot of people metagame the shit out of rounds, usually for the worst, but when I did it, and admitted to doing it like an adult, I attempted to make the round more interesting for the crew and for myself. This severely backfired, as mentioned above. I do not see how this should be a crime.

People have an issue with me because I complain a lot. It doesn't matter the language I use. It doesn't matter if I sugar coat it. If this was true, people would be complaining about how rude or mean I am to people instead of how often I complain. In most cases, I do not use harsh language; in most cases it's just "The antags weren't very good. I honestly wish people would stop chairrping with command." and that anger some people. And when I mean some people, I mean SOME people.

Only 4-5 people are offended at what I say. If the issue was greater than what people are claiming, then the whole server of 60 people would be on my ass. I specifically recall where I said a merc round wasn't very good and there were 6 antags. The people who got upset at my remarks were none of the people receiving the criticism, but a bystander who had nothing to do with the antags. Also, you should pay attention to what other people say in OOC about antags too. People say way fucking worse things than what I say to the point where I'm even like "Wew that's rude dude."

Unfortunately, people tend to focus on the instances where I start with that, it gets heated, and I start to use harsh language after I use harsh language. I don't get surprised when people use harsh language, I get surprised when I'm said literally nothing in OOC and people start throwing insults at me in OOC as a preemptive measure or some bullshit.
And lets cut the bullshit, I don't regularly share a condescending opinion. This was a meme started by a disgruntled regular who is no longer with us. For example, I went on hiatus for like a week, came back played a few rounds, after the 4th I pointed out that all the ninja did was chair RP and I was accused by the regular folk who tend to shit on me that all I do is complaint and that I'm a whiny little bitch.

My failure is how often I complained in the past and there is nothing I can do to fix this except for just keeping my opinions to myself. It doesn't matter which tone I use, it doesn't matter if I complain at most once a month, I have fucked up hard enough to develop a reputation where I am a constant complainer and that's my failure.

Whether or not that's worth of getting permanently removed from the community is up to debate. The answer to that is no, by the way. People have done way worse and are still here. The people who usually complain about my conduct have done way worse.

 

[BurgerBB]

I notice a lot of responses in this thread aren't really providing any evidence to support their claims nor how they were involved. Two of the posts in this have been "I've seen burger do this." and then use that as an excuse to give their 10 cents.

Give me a situation and I will tell you why I behaved that way.

[Lady Fowl]

A reminder that you will be warned if you post without something relevant to the issue or being directly involved. If you question if its relevent, please pm me at Drago#1720

 

This will serve as your only and last warning

[BurgerBB]

For the sake of making the punishment speedy and accurate, let me explain my intentions about why I complain.

It's not because I hate you.

It's not because I am angry with you.

It's because I want you to actively improve.

Emotions are very difficult to tell on the internet. A lot of people tend to mistake blunt honesty with being an insulting prick which is why in a lot of cases you see me say "I"m not salty, I'm not angry with you" or some variation. I don't know who the antag is at the time when the shuttle departs and the round is over so there is 0 influence over who says what. The only tool you have at your disposal is context and considering the context, I don't think it would be fair to say that I'm doing it to piss you off. I think this ban request is a prime example of what happens when you're not honest with someone and you wait until the very last straw to complain about someone. This ban request spawned because me and Shev were both in an argument, and I disagreed with him in what the problem was. He then listed a whole bunch of issues with me that happened before the argument that were never brought up, such as me twisting facts in a complaint. This isn't very healthy to either of us.

People have also tried to behave like I do to "show me" what it's like to be complained about all the time. I believe someone in OOC did this once when I was antag but it never works because this is exactly how I want to be treated. If I fuck up as antag, I want you to tell me that I fucked up and why so I can improve upon it. Even as non-antag, I want you to tell me if I fucked up at a certain job or if I did something you didn't like in looc so It won't happen again.

I think some people would say that they did this before, and that I reacted negatively to it. They would be half-true because of the context surrounding it. I can't tell you how many times where someone bring up a mistake I did as antag like a month ago and constantly milks it for whatever reason. Never in my 2 years of being here have I ever complained about a gimmick 2 days after it for the follow reasons:

• I have actual diagnosed memory issues from Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease. I am near incapable of remembering small, unimportant things 2-3 days after it occurs.
• I have more important things to try and remember/worry about.
• I say what I need to say and no longer say it again.

There is also the issue of what people are complaining about and how often in the context. If you're a person that I know is hostile, has ironically used personal insults, has obviously have not-good intentions, then I would probably ignore you. For example, if you bring up something that occured a week ago in a heated debate, I'm going to think that you only brought it up because you're heated and won't take you as seriously.

I think over the past 3 months only one person has ever said anything useful that I remember, and that was telling me that he's too scared to interact with me in fear that I might criticize them in looc. I took a note to improve my language over looc in order to appear less hostile and negative.

[Scheveningen]

Just now, BurgerBB said:

It's because I want you to actively improve.

Ridiculous way to show it.

[BurgerBB]

1 minute ago, Scheveningen said:

Ridiculous way to show it.

I give reasons why I think people didn't do a very good job as antag and explain to them what they could've done better. A lot of people tend to ignore the latter part or the latter part is usually just so small because there are only so many times I can say "Please don't chairrp with command/security."

I don't see another feasible way I could do this without being dishonest.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

48 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

I give reasons why I think people didn't do a very good job as antag and explain to them what they could've done better. A lot of people tend to ignore the latter part or the latter part is usually just so small because there are only so many times I can say "Please don't chairrp with command/security."

I don't see another feasible way I could do this without being dishonest.

 

 

 

 

You said in looc you thought i was a retard when my medical doctor pulled a corpse away from your chemist. This was not too long ago. Your behavior against me in looc goes beyond polite conversation.

[BurgerBB]

3 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

You said in looc you thought i was a retard when my medical doctor pulled a corpse away from your chemist. This was not too long ago. Your behavior against me in looc goes beyond polite conversation.

This is inaccurate.

I was injecting the corpse with chemicals as I thought it was in critical condition, as no one else was doing anything. You were actively dragging them away from me. I told you in looc that you shouldn't do such a thing because I thought you were a new medical player. 

I found out that they were dead, despite not being on a body bag or anything, and you gave me sass, so I said jokingly "Sorry, I thought you were retarded, nevermind."

 

It implies you weren't retarded and that I was in fact the idiot.

Edited March 28, 2019 by BurgerBB

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I gave you sass by telling you that youre not the cmo because you were rude. You then clarified that I wasn't the retard you thought I was. You were negging me. 

[Evandorf]

2 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

- Everyone should be an arbiter of RP. -

- People have an issue with me because I complain a lot. It doesn't matter the language I use. It doesn't matter if I sugar coat it. -

I'm focusing on these two statements because they are precisely the attitude and subsequent behavior that I'm talking about. OOC, LOOC, Deadchat, and Discord are not open platforms on which you can criticize people without limit. We allow some banter, discussion, jokes and jabs after a round because people need to be able to depressurize and blow off steam. Generally if this devolves into insults or extremely negative behavior we step in and tell people to stop. Even if we accept for the sake of argument that you use acceptable language, the quantity and persistence of your criticisms has an extremely negative quality all its own.

[BurgerBB]

1 hour ago, Evandorf said:

I'm focusing on these two statements because they are precisely the attitude and subsequent behavior that I'm talking about. OOC, LOOC, Deadchat, and Discord are not open platforms on which you can criticize people without limit. We allow some banter, discussion, jokes and jabs after a round because people need to be able to depressurize and blow off steam. Generally if this devolves into insults or extremely negative behavior we step in and tell people to stop. Even if we accept for the sake of argument that you use acceptable language, the quantity and persistence of your criticisms has an extremely negative quality all its own.

I don't see anything wrong with the statements. If someone has an issue with someone else's RP, then they should do something about it instead of talk behinds someone's back, start cliques, or other unproductive things. They should have a voice in the matter and there is nothing wrong with this. Make a thread about it. Tell them they didn't like the RP. Talk to them on discord. Tell them how you feel.

Again, as I said, people have an issue with me because I complain a lot. That is what they say. That is the points they make. No one ever complains that I'm not nice, it's always "You complain too much." Occasionally I am rude, and when I am rude, I get warnings. I think I have 2 warnings for being rude over the 2 years that I've been here in game, none on discord, and I think 3 on the forums. That is quite minimal and I don't think it's deserving of "Remove Burger from the community."

2 hours ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

I gave you sass by telling you that youre not the cmo because you were rude. You then clarified that I wasn't the retard you thought I was. You were negging me. 

I thought you were dragging a critical condition player to the scanners first before treating them. I saw they had 120 oxyloss. They needed to be treated and at the time, medbay was incredibly bald. I told you nicely not to drag patients away while someone is treating them. You responded with sass that just wasn't "You're not the cmo." so I gave you a backhanded compliment.

It was a bad move to say "I thought you were retarded." because of language, and I apologize for that. I, however, think I had every right to ask you to not drag away patients that are being treated given the context of the situation, which included:

• Medbay was struggling with new players at the time..
• They were not properly in a body bag or on a stretcher.
• You weren't performing well as as a doctor earlier.

[Evandorf]

14 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

I don't see anything wrong with the statements. If someone has an issue with someone else's RP, then they should do something about it instead of talk behinds someone's back, start cliques, or other unproductive things. They should have a voice in the matter and there is nothing wrong with this. Make a thread about it. Tell them they didn't like the RP. Talk to them on discord. Tell them how you feel.

Again, as I said, people have an issue with me because I complain a lot. That is what they say. That is the points they make. No one ever complains that I'm not nice, it's always "You complain too much." Occasionally I am rude, and when I am rude, I get warnings. I think I have 2 warnings for being rude over the 2 years that I've been here in game, none on discord, and I think 3 on the forums. That is quite minimal and I don't think it's deserving of "Remove Burger from the community.”

You seem to be missing the point. There is nothing wrong with voicing concerns about the server or other players but there is a limit. Admittedly it’s a very high limit but you seem to be reaching it. This is not about how you deal with individuals but your aggregate behavior. 

[BurgerBB]

Just now, Evandorf said:

You seem to be missing the point. There is nothing wrong with voicing concerns about the server or other players but there is a limit. Admittedly it’s a very high limit but you seem to be reaching it. This is not about how you deal with individuals but your aggregate behavior. 

Post examples so I can address them. So far no one has posted examples of any incidents where I'm too aggressive or over the top despite this being very important to this thread. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying that they're very important because there is a lot of context behind them.

But I just want to bring up the fact that all of this is just coming in at once. If you have an issue with me, voice it when it happens or if you need to cool down or if you think I need to cool down, wait a day until it happens and drop me a PM. If you don't want to argue with me at all then I strongly suggest ahelping it because it can and will be dealt with. So far 2 people I can recall off the top of my head did this in the 2 years that I've been here.

At this point I don't care if I fall into Shev's description of me trying to guilt trip people, but let's be reasonable. Waiting for the last straw in order to make a PERMANENT BAN request thread containing a psychoanalysis into I am as well as including such phrases as "Everyone knows this." when describing how awful I am is not only just fucking stupid but harmful. I want this to be addressed by admins because it seems like it's being overlooked about how reactive this thread is considering the following:

• I do not have a ban history on discord, or in game. I have, however, received 2 bans, one three day ban for being in a heated conversation with Kaed, and one week bad where me and Shev were banned for shitty behavior on the forums.
• I have 1 active warning on the forums, and it is because I joked about AMR users having a small penis.
• I have 6 warnings (1 is a glitch). 1 of them was for behavioral issues which was 7 months ago when I posted Menown's records in OOC and they had a breakdown because of it.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Dont apologize then say i deserved it in the same paragraph please. How i acted was irrelevant.  You yelled at me in all caps for not doing something you wanted me to do, then said you thought I was a retard. This is an example of your behavior as it directly impacted me.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[BurgerBB]

1 minute ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Dont apologize then say i deserved it in the same paragraph please. How i acted was irrelevant.  You yelled at me in all caps for not doing something you wanted me to do, then said you thought I was a retard. This is an example of your behavior as it directly impacted me.

I didn't say you deserved it. I said that, from my point of view, what I did at the time given the current information, it made sense to stop you.

So let me clarify what I meant. At the time of me saying it, I thought it was justified in me telling you in looc not to drag patients away while I'm treating them. I thought they were on the verge of death, and I thought you were killing them because of it. Given the information I have now, you did not deserve it because you were clearly not trying to kill them, as they were already dead.