[Resolved] Player Complaint: TheNewOrleans

[Lady Fowl]

BYOND Key: Drwago
Game ID: bZx-coxe
Player Byond Key: TheNewOrleans
Staff involved: Evandorf
Reason for complaint: Poor paramedic play, lack of fear rp and not following any sort of fear of danger.


Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? I ahelped but it was defended as "ok" as they were apparatly trying to save the roboticst

 

 

The paramedic ran into a active firefight between the security officer and drunk roboticist, while this fight was way over escalated by the officer, the paramedic rushed right into gunfire and begin to stab the roboticist with by that count 15u of sopo, followed by this they then did



Another 15 units of sopo, so at this point the roboticist has 30 u of sopo in their system and was shot, my question is why was this behavior deemed acceptable by the staff member handling the issue, this also implys the paramedic was carrying around large amounts of this chemical

Approximate Date/Time: 31/3/2019

[Evandorf]

Calling it an active firefight is a little misleading as it was mostly disarms and shoves. The only dangerous weapon present was the officer’s laser rifle which I don’t believe left his hands.

However I did miss the fact that the last injection was a full 15 units which would bring them up to the overdose threshold. I can’t say how much damage that would actually do but it should have been taken into consideration. 

[Lady Fowl]

1 minute ago, Evandorf said:

Calling it an active firefight is a little misleading as it was mostly disarms and shoves. The only dangerous weapon present was the officer’s laser rifle which I don’t believe left his hands.

However I did miss the fact that the last injection was a full 15 units which would bring them up to the overdose threshold. I can’t say how much damage that would actually do but it should have been taken into consideration. 

It was 30 units total

[Evandorf]

TheNewOrleans can also speak for themselves but this occurred late in the round and Normandy had been a problem for most of it. When responding to the brain damage call they likely brought the sedative having known he was an issue. 

[Evandorf]

1 minute ago, DRagO said:

It was 30 units total

Right, the original three injections of five plus the big one of 15 is 30 total. 

[Lady Fowl]

Right but paramedics arent supposed to be doing that nor voiding there own safety

[Evandorf]

As I stated in the ahelp, the paramedic injected sopor in a situation where the officer was having issues dealing with a suspect and then brought a laser rifle to bear on a drunk, unarmed man. This was not a situation of medical power gaming meds to bypass the need for sec at all. 

And in regards to fear RP, if anyone has a footing to stand on for risking their life to save a patient it would be a paramedic. 

[TheOrleans]

Hello, sorry for the delay, didn't notice until Evandorf told me.

I will try to answer each issue, one by one.

1- What's the issue of 30 units? (Which is not true, since it was 15 + 8 (stabbing does not transfer all the syringe, as you can see in your attack log, and I knew that, so it's 23). 30 is the threshold, won't cause damage or if it causes, it would be like 1 toxin damage, then it would be 29.95 after the first tick, so no more OD. But as I said, it was 23 in his system.

2- The first three injections happened when the Normandy was on the ground (if he wasn't he would have resisted), he was batoned and it was ''safe'' to due it. Although not 100% safe, EMTs are used to dangerous situations, and this one wasn't that threatening.

3- I always carry a bottle of sopoforic as EMT. You think a bottle is ''large amounts''? In fact, I didn't carry two syringes, it was an empty one and I fill it with the bottle I need. I use sopoforic as part of my roleplay of sedating people who is so hurt.

4- I didn't run into any ''firefight'', the officer shot lethals (which was a pretty bad decision) after I had sedated him once already. Then I just stabbed him with the syringe to avoid anyone else getting hurt, knowing he would be knocked unconscious. Everything before was pretty much some shoving between an officer and a drunk guy with brain damage who couldn't even walk correcly. We've all faced more dangerous situations in our real lives than a drunk guy.

 

I was there to assist, and sedating a knocked guy is assisting, without harming anyone. Then the situation escalated when the officer shot lethals (pretty bad decision imo as I said), so I ended up stabbing him with a syringe full of sopoforic.

 

I think this is the end of my explanation. Thank you.

[Lady Fowl]

EMT's shouldnt run into any combat scenario like this, especially after you got shot and continued to rush in. EMT's should not use sopo in this fashion.

[TheOrleans]

1 hour ago, DRagO said:

EMT's shouldnt run into any combat scenario like this, especially after you got shot and continued to rush in. EMT's should not use sopo in this fashion.

It wasn't a COMBAT SCENARIO, it was a little fight with some shoving, lol.

 

I didn't rush into anywhere we were all in 9 squares. And I sedated someone who was out of control due to his brain damage. That's exactly what I would do as EMT. 

 

[Lady Fowl]

He was being shot at and you got shot due to running into the situation, to where you injected, as logs say 30 units of sopo into him. Thats not how EMT's are supposed to be played.

[TheOrleans]

26 minutes ago, DRagO said:

He was being shot at and you got shot due to running into the situation, to where you injected, as logs say 30 units of sopo into him. Thats not how EMT's are supposed to be played.

That's literally false, read your damn logs man.

I got shot FIRST TIME HE SHOT. Read it, pal. He was aiming, he pulled the trigger, beam missed two players and hit me. This is kind of annoying me already, at first it was like an attempt to clarify a situation, now is escalating to an accusation, including false statements.

I didn't run into a situation in the middle of gunfire. We were all in 9 squares, he shot once and that shot hit me, after missing two other players, check the logs you posted before accusating, please.

I injected 23. Read, the logs.

3 injections of 5 units (15) + ''Used the syringe to violently inject stoxin (15) (8U TRANSFERRED INTO DARKSTAR)

 

Did you even read the logs you posted?

[Lady Fowl]

I misread the logs but it doesnt change the fact that you ran into a combat situation and were sedating people while they were being shot at

[TheOrleans]

5 hours ago, DRagO said:

I misread the logs but it doesnt change the fact that you ran into a combat situation and were sedating people while they were being shot at

They weren't being "shot at"

I didn't run into a combat situation, you are clearly explaining the situation that happened in a way it looks like there was a huge threat, when, what  actually happened is a little fight (shoving and couple of punches) between a drunk/brain damaged guy and an officer. Everyone has faced worse things than a little fight in real life.

I would have never expected an officer to shoot lethals in that situation. He shot ONCE. That shot, unlucky me, hit me in the right foot.

Then he stopped shooting (probably cause he knew he just made a big mistake), and I stabbed Normandy with a syringe when he was already nearly knocked.

I've explained enough, won't be posting again unless Evandorf asks me to. Drago, I don't know what's your goal with this, but exaggerating the facts to make me look like a horrible player who powergamed in the middle of a life or death situation is not nice.

You say "combat situation" when the real thing was a small fight, which is a clear exaggeration.

You say "carry huge amounts of that chem" when I had one bottle of a mild sedative, you make me look like someone ready to powergame or grief.

You say "sedating people while they were being shot at", when the officer shot once, and I only sedated a guy. You are making me look like a griefer.

I don't think this attitude is acceptable from a Moderator. Right now I'm thinking about making a complaint about this.

Edited April 11, 2019 by TheOrleans

[Lady Fowl]

8 hours ago, TheOrleans said:

They weren't being "shot at"

I didn't run into a combat situation, you are clearly explaining the situation that happened in a way it looks like there was a huge threat, when, what  actually happened is a little fight (shoving and couple of punches) between a drunk/brain damaged guy and an officer. Everyone has faced worse things than a little fight in real life.

I would have never expected an officer to shoot lethals in that situation. He shot ONCE. That shot, unlucky me, hit me in the right foot.

Then he stopped shooting (probably cause he knew he just made a big mistake), and I stabbed Normandy with a syringe when he was already nearly knocked.

I've explained enough, won't be posting again unless Evandorf asks me to. Drago, I don't know what's your goal with this, but exaggerating the facts to make me look like a horrible player who powergamed in the middle of a life or death situation is not nice.

You say "combat situation" when the real thing was a small fight, which is a clear exaggeration.

You say "carry huge amounts of that chem" when I had one bottle of a mild sedative, you make me look like someone ready to powergame or grief.

You say "sedating people while they were being shot at", when the officer shot once, and I only sedated a guy. You are making me look like a griefer.

I don't think this attitude is acceptable from a Moderator. Right now I'm thinking about making a complaint about this.

You are free to make a complaint if you wish, but im not going to stand down due to blackmail or a threat of a complaint for argueing for better roleplay standards, what im saying is that EMT's should not be rushing into situations like this and sedating people, especialy after they got shot once and seemingly ignored it and continued. Any CMO main will practically all agree with that as would any actual EMT, which if you would like I can put you in touch with. EMT's in active shooting situations follow a set of guidelines known as THREAT

 

Threat suppression (law enforcement)

Hemorrhage control

Rapid Extrication

Assessment by medical providers

Transport to definitive care

The officer according to the logs shot twice, this wasn't just shoving around, he had been batoned and kicked before it turned to shoving and then to the officer starting to shoot. In most EMT schools and in most countrys globaly, no EMT is trained or even encourgaged to rush into a active fight and start jabbing people with medication

[TheSleepyCatmom]

A paramedic has the ability and plausible training to react in many situations, including active firefights depending on the state of the country you live in, or the city you reside upon. It's the sad truth of the medical field that we prepare ourselves for the day-in-day-out of crisis even if it doesn't happen on the daily. An EMT is less likely to have such training, as the only qualifier for EMT is going through about two weeks of basic classes and getting a certificate that you know basic treatment, and this is why EMTs are always on-job with Paramedics, and never are there teams of two EMTs.

 

However, doing so upon a fighting member is something you would be told never to do, because it makes you look like you're picking sides and puts a target on you. This is why you never run into a police shootout and put a bandage on the officer shooting, you will be shot as well. It's why areas are cleared before medical services are allowed to enter, in every case and time with very minimal times of exceptions.

 

But yes, Drago is correct, EMS have guidelines they follow in 'combat' scenarios, which is part of their training to get into the mindset for. It's a very "Follow these or you put yourself and others at very high risk of injury." You have to remember as an EMT, you are not a paramedic with multiple years of experience under their belt, and you're not a doctor who can treat people. Your job is to move people injured back to medical to the best of your abilities and provide stabilization care until you arrive. Not to be a cure-all-be-all end of the line, even if you're capable of doing that by drugs. EMT is not just a fluff title and the same thing of a Paramedic, an EMT is an equivalent to a training role for a Paramedic, if you want to think of it that way.

Edited April 11, 2019 by TheSleepyCatmom
Edited just to clarify that I'm using the American system, as it seems to be the system we're using on Aurora anyway.

[MelodicVoid]

Hi, I am Melodic and I will be handling this complaint going forward. 

[Bear]

Oh man, living up to my name as shit sec that round. 

To be fair, it happened late in round in a span of two minutes and by the end I think everyone just wanted to to get away from the situation. Myself especially when the las rifle fired... which may have been a miss click as i tried to cancel out the aim.. and as my mouse occasionally double clicks it turned into two shots looking like one. Probably should have asked to void it but I rolled with it, whole thing was a cluster and he had already picked up multiple weapons.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Bear

[MelodicVoid]

I believe enough information has been given to come to a decision on this. 

First off a OCC type of issue. Sophoric is a huge roleplay blocker and should only be used if there are no alternatives such as hand cuffs etc. That is not a rule... more of a suggestion.

Moving on to the concerns brought up in this complaint. From what has been stated this would not be considered a live firefight situation however I would consider it a situation. 

Note : it being near the end of the round is not a excuse to lower RP expectations. I know frustrating situations occur 

A EMT is not a Paramedic however based on the province I live in a EMT certification can take 6-24 months to achieve - company depending. As such I believe a EMT is quite capable but should not be in a unsecured area unless it is a last resort and life threating situation. I.E a warzone. 

I do believe there was a failure to uphold fear RP as even though it was a mistake you were shot. IRL if you got shot with a laser rifle that would cause intense burning you would at the very least withdraw and allow for security to detain or pin the subject before you attempt to engage. 

To summarize I have decided this complaint is valid. However it is not a severe offence due to the circumstances around it. 

Moving forward allow security to do the suppression unless there is no alternative. Sophoric is completely fine to carry on you it can add some nice touches to RP if you are lacking pain killers or if something major happens. Try your best not to engage someone outside of medical, stay close by and fix the wounded after a engagement. 

As stated above I do not think this severe  but it is valid. As such I will be applying a notation in your account and any further infraction of a similar nature will be followed by more administrative action. 

I will leave this post open to allow for debating of my decision or other concerns to take place over the next 48 hours (can be extended depending on the situation). 

Sincerely, Melodic. 

[MelodicVoid]

Oh! Side note! If you notice someone doing a bit that causes strain to everyone around them please Ahelp it so we can try and do something about it. (Most of the time it includes some form of failRP) 

[MelodicVoid]

Resolved - Locking Post