ERT vs Emergency Shuttle?

[Grewsome]

Hi all,

I've been playing on Aurora for about 8-10 months now although for the last couple I've been basically observing every time I get on to try and understand a bit more about why somethings are the way they are.

My question is:

Why does most of the current command whitelist prefer to call an emergency shuttle over the ERT/TCFL while sitting at code red within 15 minutes (+-) of the two hour mark where you would ordinarily be able to vote for a crew transfer?

As far as I am aware, the primary downside of an ERT or the TCFL team arriving on the station is that command feels that they will be stripped of their power and will lose control of their station.

The plus side to calling a emergency shuttle is that the round is ended at or around the two hour mark.

My thoughts around point one is that yes, command inevitably will lose a slight amount of "power", especially when the NT ERT arrives as their primary objective, taken from the wiki is to "return the station to normal operations".

Calling an emergency shuttle at the two hour mark seems like an easy way out for command and the station in general. My argument for restricting the emergency shuttle is that if the station is sitting at code red at the time you would usually call a crew transfer shuttle, then the station is still experiencing roleplay that constitutes a heightened security level. Calling an emergency shuttle runs the risk of a) restricting the ability for roleplay to continue and b) having the current situation escalate rapidly, reducing the quality of roleplay in order for the situation to be resolved prior to the shuttle arrival/departure.

I could put this in a policy suggestion but I would rather get actual feedback and get an understanding, primarily from command whitelist but also sec mains on their thoughts as to whether or not your feelings are similar in anyway to mine set out above and also don't know that changing directives or policies regarding an ERT or an emergency shuttle would really serve any purpose at this point.

Would love to hear your feedback.

Cheers

[Conspiir]

Hey. I'm neither CCIA or play Command really at all. I'm also really tired, but can't sleep. So I'll weigh in, too, with 95% theory (I'm good at theory)!

 

It's, honestly, case-by-case. ERT is definitely a "Kill the Bad Guy" button, which comes with a lot of power (potentially less now with the new TCFL). But also, a shuttle can be just as justified if there's real threat to crew safety in staying.

 

Put it this way, if the station is a wreck, if it would reasonably take ages to repair, if there are literally missing areas and/or atmos of the station due to bombs or meteors or random blob in the middle of a ninja takeover (just an example, as it doesn't have to be solely because of the antag that an evac could be justified, but many little factors adding up on top of them), I'd say evac. The station isn't habitable anymore, and it isn't a simple fix by engineering. And if there's still a loose cannon out there, it may get worse. Definitely call an evac. You know who you're looking out for, you can probably stop them from getting on the shuttle. Secure the crew, make sure they can get to evac through the horrific mess.

 

At the same time. Say half the crew is fucking shit up (cult, or rev). Well, evac's probably a bad call. Who can say which side will be getting on that shuttle? Bottlenecking frightened crew right into where the bad guys will expect them to be can end badly. There's more than one bad guy, all the crew is in danger, who even knows who is crew at that point? Call for help. An outside shotcaller on the situation who can neutralize the immediate threats and restore order before (possibly) calling evac then.

 

I think most of us would say that if security still standing and fighting? No ERT. It would be jumping the gun. As would ERT very early in the round.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Conspiir

[Resilynn]

As a command and ccia player, hello those titles don’t mean very much. 

 

I tend to go for ert over evac because, y’know, it’s pretty shitty to shut down the game because the antag got scary. I’ve seen shuttles called over a single nonviolent wizard, just because they couldn’t be contained. 

 

Evac is for when the crew 100% is going to eat shit if you don’t leave, or all your air is gone. 

[Xelnagahunter]

Conspiir has the right of it in my opinion. Most of the decision should be made with the though of "can we contain this" in mind. If it's not containable, ERT is the best route. If you could prevent it from leaving the station with you, but cannot function on station with it present potentially because it can't be contained normally, then an EVAC is best. If you can function at least mostly normally, albeit at code red or blue, then you should just play the round. Try to minimize time spent in code red though, especially after the 2 hour mark. (I've been stuck in a 4 hour round way back because we were at code red for 3 hours.)

It's not really hard to think about what justifies it, but also take into account how the round is going and character mindsets. HoS characters are likely to want ERT to help dominate the antag in a fight, but the CMO should want to get patients off the station as much as possible. Brave characters will want to stay and will vote as such and cowardly characters will want to run. There are a lot of things to take into account beyond the basics.

[Soultheif96]

As both CCIA and Command, I will say this: It is preferred that ERT is not called over an actual evacuation. 

There was a time when command bash the ERT button more than I could even count and they always are a kill-button on antagonist roleplay. Especially when security is still functioning.

It is expected of command to determine that an ERT is required by meeting the following criteria:

- Is the station lost?

- Is security unable to deal with the situation or majority are dead/disable?

- Is high-risk items like SAT and otherwise compromised?.

If they do, then an ERT would be suggested. If not and the station or the crew is at immediate danger, an emergency shuttle would be encouraged.

[Resilynn]

Like to me we are talking about the difference between more players jumping in as ert and more things happening for longer. 

 

Or getting on a shuttle and ending the game. 

[Resilynn]

4 hours ago, Aphelion said:

Calling a escape shuttle icly should just start a transfer vote. If it gets denied, Odin gives some bogus reason like...

"Shuttle is unable to launch due to currently undergoing maintenance."

 

In terms of when to use it, if the entire station is vented and the round is a loss with no hope of saving it, that's when I think an evac is needed.

ERT is when it's "We have X problem and it is presenting a manageable issue, but do not have the manpower and equipment to resolve it safely and within an effective amount of time"

Wtf this is brilliant. I could see it maybe being an issue for like, cult and rev, but fuck it, if most of the crew is having fun, most of the crew is having fun. 

[Shadow7889]

Honestly? I feel like it depends on the situation, and the antag. That and the ability to fight back. If I'm playing as a Captain/HoS I will check the situation once we move to red alert. Do I have enough manpower to fight this unknown threat? Are my secure locations okay? ( Armory, vault, SAT ) How bad are the crew doing? 

 

If if got a teleporting wizard fireballing crew because I refused to give them the SAT, and half my officers are in the morgue, and the other half are struggling to chase, yes I will request ERT. The best thing about ERT/TCFL is their ability to boost the stations ability to bounce back. If i get one medical specialist, I can probably keep my crew alive. Those red bois can give the antag some trouble or just handle it. To boot I get this lead that 9 times out of ten will toss his guys around my station, sorting the issues. Yes please. 

 

HOWEVER. 

If my crew are in serious danger, and the station itself is heavily breached/broken, ISD are dead and the crew are likely next? I may choose to evac the crew. If the crew are begging for a shuttle, I tend to go along with it. 

The biggest thing here is, listen to your crew. Ask them what they want. You can handle it. But they're a part of the team as much as you are.  

[MoondancerPony]

4 hours ago, Resilynn said:

Wtf this is brilliant. I could see it maybe being an issue for like, cult and rev, but fuck it, if most of the crew is having fun, most of the crew is having fun. 

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/6552 In progress now.

[Aphelion]

Calling a escape shuttle icly should just start a transfer vote. If it gets denied, Odin gives some bogus reason like...

"Shuttle is unable to launch due to currently undergoing maintenance."

 

In terms of when to use it, if the entire station is vented and the round is a loss with no hope of saving it, that's when I think an evac is needed.

ERT is when it's "We have X problem and it is presenting a manageable issue, but do not have the manpower and equipment to resolve it safely and within an effective amount of time"

Edited June 9, 2019 by Aphelion