New Sec Borg - Protector Module

[Kaed]

Since we appear to be removing the security module (something I don't disagree with) but NOT replacing it with a new module that everyone was asking for (something I very much disagree with), I have decided that it shall fall upon me to handle this mess.  To that extent, I will pitch you the idea I have and will be starting work on after writing this post.

The protector module will, for now, use the same colors and chassis options as the sec borg used, for lack of a different sprite artist, but right now the idea will involve the following items available in the module (some are already available to sec borgs and borgs in general)

• Corp Reg database (already a module, but book sprite sprite may be replaced with something more appropriate)
• Flash
• Crowbar
• Police Tape
• Sec HUD
• Pepper Spray (Not sure if I want to force them to refill it like officers have to or have it refill while charging)
• Hypospray (Inaprovaline and maybe some painkillers only, stuff to ease people's suffering and stabilize them)
• Defensive Barrier Deployment System (Places energy barrier similar to what the malf AI can place down for a hefty energy cost)
• Electronic Pacifier (Basically a weaker ion rifle without lethal mode that only affects the square it hits, is mostly for discharging laser weapons/rigsuits and stunning hostile synthetics)
• Kinetic Defense Array (I don't know if I'll actually be able to do this, but I have this idea for them to be able to turn on an energy-expensive module that causes bullets and non-hitscan projectiles to redirect themselves to hit the borg instead of whatever they were aiming at.  This would essentially be an emergency use only module, which would drain most standard batteries in 10 seconds or less and will likely result in the borg being destroyed instead of crewmembers it is protecting.  This would, by current design of the game, make security favored over antagonists briefly, since security usually has hitscan lasers, while antagonists have kinetic weapons)
• HACKED: Energy Refraction Field (Can be turned on to give the borg the same property that cult Juggernauts have, where lasers will bounce off them and possibly injure nearby people), along with EMP resistance.
• HACKED: Ion Rifle (just the one you can find in the armory, with lethal mode and all)

As you can see, this basic concept revolves around defense and low level pacification of hostiles without actually causing serious harm to anything you might find during a serious assault, and gives security advantages over antagonists via indirect defensive abilities that favor them over antagonists.  Meanwhile, after being hacked, they gain some strong powers that cause them to be able to fuck over the security team.  Feedback accepted!

Edited August 10, 2019 by Kaed

[Nantei]

The issue with adding modules for cyborgs is they are almost always taking up a role a human could do in a more restricted capacity. Security is a role that requires flexible judgement and leniancy. Cyborg laws are pretty much the opposite of what is needed there. So often secborgs would just shut down antags with little roleplay.

 

I think this is a step in the right direction, but not fully there. To be honest my ideal for a replacement would be a blue alert or above only version. Because you only need them for combat. And they should have zero capacity to detain and arrest. Not nearly as good as combat borgs, but the same general idea of you only use these when you really need extra muscle.

[Chada1]

Kinda related, see my post in the 'Rework Sec borg' thread. This one too could benefit extremely in having some basic medical utilities akin to the Rescue module, and at that point, the rescue module could be just plain removed.

You can read my post here.

[Skull132]

Core issues with sec borg as I see it: you have a fearless, all access juggernaut there to assist security. They do not have to adhere to fearRP in 99% of the cases, and are relatively difficult to bring down, unless you have The Magic Weapon:tm:. Magic weapons are bad, FYI. I don't think that this iteration, nor Drago's, address these issues. Drago's creates new issues and yours just removes cuffs and the baton in favour of other tools that can still be used to fuck antags.

I am also highly uncertain about the feasibility of "Defence" in SS13 combat. The only way to achieve that is for one side to be too frail to push a direct confrontation, but borgs are not frail. The only type of antag this borg cannot directly assault with a high degree of success are the ones outfitted with RIGs.

Also, @Chada1, dilution of borg objectives/specializations is generally not a good idea.

[Chada1]

47 minutes ago, Skull132 said:

Core issues with sec borg as I see it: you have a fearless, all access juggernaut there to assist security. They do not have to adhere to fearRP in 99% of the cases, and are relatively difficult to bring down, unless you have The Magic Weapon:tm:. Magic weapons are bad, FYI. I don't think that this iteration, nor Drago's, address these issues. Drago's creates new issues and yours just removes cuffs and the baton in favour of other tools that can still be used to fuck antags.

I am also highly uncertain about the feasibility of "Defence" in SS13 combat. The only way to achieve that is for one side to be too frail to push a direct confrontation, but borgs are not frail. The only type of antag this borg cannot directly assault with a high degree of success are the ones outfitted with RIGs.

Also, @Chada1, dilution of borg objectives/specializations is generally not a good idea.

If this isn't enough to salvage the module, I would prefer it just plainly not exist. So uhh......

My intention with my changes are to push it to a support role, not one for aggression. So, it'd help security, it would never be the thing directly aggressing antags.
And all of this can be done without having a Security Module, too. So doesn't bother me at all to see it go.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Chada1

[Kaed]

3 hours ago, Skull132 said:

Core issues with sec borg as I see it: you have a fearless, all access juggernaut there to assist security. They do not have to adhere to fearRP in 99% of the cases, and are relatively difficult to bring down, unless you have The Magic Weapon:tm:. Magic weapons are bad, FYI. I don't think that this iteration, nor Drago's, address these issues. Drago's creates new issues and yours just removes cuffs and the baton in favour of other tools that can still be used to fuck antags.

I am also highly uncertain about the feasibility of "Defence" in SS13 combat. The only way to achieve that is for one side to be too frail to push a direct confrontation, but borgs are not frail. The only type of antag this borg cannot directly assault with a high degree of success are the ones outfitted with RIGs.

Also, @Chada1, dilution of borg objectives/specializations is generally not a good idea.

I mean, I see what you're saying, but the problem is that 'fearRP' just doesn't happen in most PLAYERS, borgs notwithstanding.  I built this kit around the idea that if it was there, it's counterplay to antagonists would be to render them less harmful, instead of killing or disabling them. The average extra-station antag team is armed with machine guns and rigs, and it's entirely feasible for them to mow down an underarmed security within the first half hour of the game. Most traitors with weapons also would be using kinetic guns.  I'd like to create a mentality that one has to work AROUND the protector or get RID of it before they can assault the crew or security team, but they shouldn't directly fear it.

It should be encouraged by this kit to sacrifice itself for others, which is what a robot would be doing in any case, because they have no sense of self-preservation in the fact of protecting the crew.  It's worth noting that the whole 'suck up the bullets' defense would work exactly once before the borg is destroyed or drained of power, and is only feasible to activate after combat has already started, due to it's heavy energy drain.  

This antag doesn't 'assault' anyone, it protects the crew (which is something security really doesn't do that much already, they mostly chase down antagonists).  I just wish I could figure out how to... like, encourage it to help the crew at large instead of just buddying up with security all day like sec borgs did. 

I'm open to ideas on that.

[Scheveningen]

Not particularly a fan. I was expecting some interesting area denial tools as a compromising result of the current Outrage of the Month, but adding low-power EMPs just seems to be recreating the problems of the secborg in a different way. I wonder if anything really needs to replace the coming vacuum of the secborg in the first place. I'm sure we can do without it, precedent be damned.

[KingOfThePing]

Also not a fan. Reads not very cool and some modules are very strong, echoing what Schev said, basically renaming and a bit altering the current problem. Just remove them for now, if something needs to fill in the gap, then that will show over time.

[Skull132]

4 hours ago, Kaed said:

I'd like to create a mentality that one has to work AROUND the protector or get RID of it before they can assault the crew or security team, but they shouldn't directly fear it.

IMO there exist far too many items of this nature already for antags to deal with. AI, normal security, etcetera. Unfortunately the list of effective weapons against borgs is scant, unless you want to start making an obscene amount of noise (grenades).

Also, this unit will still be used as a response force. Pepper spray and flash are enough to deal with most on station antags, specially if you give them to a borg that can close within a normal antag with impunity.