Security Cyborgs can be saved. And here's how.

[LanceTheInvader]

This suggestion will be in two part since the problem with Security Borgs are both with the laws and balance. But, they only work correctly together and cannot be justified separatly if we want to keep some clarity.

 

The Flawed Laws: Programmed to fail.

First, the laws. Let's start by the ones that started it all. Asimov's laws.

1-A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

2-A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

3-A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

Now, why did I even bring this up? See, the problem with how the laws are written in game is that they make zero sense from a HRP perspective. If you take a careful look Asimov's laws we're written so that while humans can't be hurt. Each law override each other by priority to avoid inaction. Now how does it translate ingame and why it makes no sense? It makes no sense because a corporation would never sacrifice an entire station and "god knows how much" in reseach capital / knowledge . Not for a single employee (especially not a janitor or what not. Thus why a copy paste of Asimov laws dosen't work.) Since the laws have no priority override, it leaves the borgs pretty much dead in the water. Wich is a complete non-sense in a private corporate setting (This server being HRP). The presense of an AI does solve the issue but a station shouldn't be completely defenseless if the AI is disabled or nobody spawned as one..... It simply dosen't work in a serious HRP perspective in my sincere opinion. Because we got the same problem than this movie's cyborg within our game (except worse because even the janitor got the terrorist pass.).  In regard to the laws. I also been kind of pointed at for taking context into account. Do not forget those are Cyborgs. Not just robots with captors and programming. What would be the point of using brains at all if it is just there for... fun? There's a reason why cyborgs are fascinating in science fiction. They are because they combine (At least in actual good sci-fi.) the better (and worse) of each worlds. So, understanding what a cyborg is, is extremely important because it makes a huge difference. It's the whole point of cyborgs even existing in the first place. So, yeah, re-write the laws and give the terrorist pass to the HIGHEST RANKED ONLY wich should honestly be HoP/Captain. (OR of course if somebody steals their ID... or the famous backup one I heard of.).

Now that I have tackled the laws issues. We need to speak balance. Because, as much as we want to be 100% believable, it is still a game.

 

Broken rules, broken balance.

This will be less annoying to read. It needs less explanations and is fairly straight forward.

1- Security Borgs can ONLY be present if no security officer beyond the grade of cadet is present. If an officer (or higher) connects. The Borg MUST disengage and either A) Go to robotics for a module switch. or B) Get into storage.

NOTE: 2 cadets can be considered as 1 officer in worth. 1 cadet ain't much to go for. This only applies to avoid huge imbalance due to traitors having access to black market VS cadets that may not have access to anything impactful under certain circumstances.

2- Security Borgs can ONLY be present if security has no possible access to the armory and it's content. Keep in mind that while it can be forced, it takes a lot of time... Traitors (example) do not have that issue at all. They can be fairly well armed compared to cadets from the get go. You cannot just get rid of borgs because they are OP with the current rules but then proceed to make Antags even harder to deal with. "You cannot simultaneously retain your cake and eat it."  This rule only applies if it dosen't contradict the former. (Ironically... robot laws again! yaaaaaaaaay!).

3- Security Borgs cannot be upgraded beyond a certain point. (At your discretion.) The base one is so slow, getting cornered by one near impossible. There's plenty of ways to go around said bots... Only 1 dedicated security bot can be deployed at any time. Rules number 1, 2, 3 must be all clear for borgs to happen at all.

4- Given the type of antagonists (most being crew other having lot of ressources.) knowing if the station is understaffed in security and having the appropriate gear to deal with borgs is NOT metagame. It is perfectly justifiable and absolutely believable from a roleplay/realistic perspective.

NOTE (Metagaming): Metagaming is a term used in role-playing games, which describes a player's use of real-life knowledge concerning the state of the game to determine their character's actions, when said character has no relevant knowledge or awareness under the circumstances. (Ref. Wikipedia.)

 

Finale.

I won't pretend my suggestion is 100% foolproof and perfect. Adjustments certaintly needs to be done. And, it is clearly meant for the time when the server has less players. What is the priority of the server? Action or RP? For me HRP is the later. I want to keep the suspension of disbelief working. Thus why I encourage you to throw arguments to counter this suggestion. So we can, together, find the flaws in it and save the Borgs!

(Videoproof of the savage killing of Borgs across the universe. We cannot stand idle while they suffer!)

 

If we fail our mission. Next step will be to try and save the lone security cadet or defenseless crew. More threads like this will be done in the future for other occupations/roles once I nailed some of the non-sense in them.

- LanceTheInvader A.K.A Lord Yshrak

Former Underground RPG owner/community manager. First and only 100% democratic RPG community in Jedi Academy.

Former Ogrimar's Curse quest/item creator/editor. The 4th Coming.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by LanceTheInvader

[Kaed]

We don't use Asimov lawsets on the server. The default lawset is a corporate lawset, and looks like this

1.  Safeguard: Protect your assigned space station from damage to the best of your abilities.
2. Serve: Serve NanoTrasen personnel to the best of your abilities, with priority as according to their rank and role.
3. Protect: Protect NanoTrasen personnel to the best of your abilities, with priority as according to their rank and role.
4. Preserve: Do not allow unauthorized personnel to tamper with your equipment.

Have you actually played a borg on this server yet?

That being said, adding all these extra things that security borgs have to follow seems unnecessarily convoluted and I'd rather not.

[LanceTheInvader]

4 minutes ago, Kaed said:

We don't use Asimov lawsets on the server. The default lawset is a corporate lawset, and looks like this

1.  Safeguard: Protect your assigned space station from damage to the best of your abilities.
2. Serve: Serve NanoTrasen personnel to the best of your abilities, with priority as according to their rank and role.
3. Protect: Protect NanoTrasen personnel to the best of your abilities, with priority as according to their rank and role.
4. Preserve: Do not allow unauthorized personnel to tamper with your equipment.

Have you actually played a borg on this server yet?

That being said, adding all these extra things that security borgs have to follow seems unnecessarily convoluted and I'd rather not.

I think the point completely flew over your head. Read it again.

I had to include Asimov laws to demonstrate why those would work in THEIR context but not the ones in the server. You clearly stopped reading after Asimov otherwise you'd know that. It is long because I have to justify.. It is in fact ridiculously easy to apply in game.

Edited August 16, 2019 by LanceTheInvader

[Kaed]

Just now, LanceTheInvader said:

I think the point completely flew over your head. Read it again.

I admit I'm having some trouble parsing your long, meandering paragraph about laws.  Forgive me for being a bit blunt, but you start with stating Asimov's laws as if they are part of the problem on this server that does not use them, and then stray into incoherent rambling about your feelings on HRP and how they apply to laws in a way I am having difficulty understanding.  And at one point you mention a movie with no context I can see?

[LanceTheInvader]

Just now, Kaed said:

I admit I'm having some trouble parsing your long, meandering paragraph about laws.  Forgive me for being a bit blunt, but you start with stating Asimov's laws as if they are part of the problem on this server that does not use them, and then stray into incoherent rambling about your feelings on HRP and how they apply to laws in a way I am having difficulty understanding.  And at one point you mention a movie with no context I can see?

Again. The difference between the two is that with Asimov's the risk of complete INACTION is almost negated unlike the ones on the server. Robocop also had a loophole that disabled the cyborg (The secret directive.) but unlike that movie, even a janitor has that pass on the server.

[Kaed]

5 hours ago, LanceTheInvader said:

Again. The difference between the two is that with Asimov's the risk of complete INACTION is almost negated unlike the ones on the server. Robocop also had a loophole that disabled the cyborg (The secret directive.) but unlike that movie, even a janitor has that pass on the server.

I still don't see what relevance that has onto the issue of removing security borgs. The primary reason why they are being removed just because they are too overpowering a force. That's not an issue with laws, it's an issue with design and the standards we have on the server.

 

[VTCobaltblood]

Why do sec borgs need to be saved with these pointless and tricky caveats to playing a sec borg? What if a warden joins in the middle of a sec borg being in a combat situation, must the sec borg deactivate itself? How do you even regulate that?

Most importantly, being forced to deactivate yourself pretty much on someone's whim is utterly unfun. The respawn time is a whole 20 minutes. You could have played a sec borg for 5 minutes and be forced to go to storage because a cadet has joined and there's no roboticist. Why does this have to exist as opposed to just removing sec borgs?

Edited August 16, 2019 by VTCobaltblood

[Doxxmedearly]

They aren't being saved. While I admire the effort you put into this, the consensus is that they are being removed, and that this is a net positive for the server. I still stand by their removal, as well.

[Scheveningen]

Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to.

[GreenBoi]

This won't work unfortunately. Too many small, pedantic rules for a SINGLE module to follow. It'd make secborg dumb and not fun, and be a headache to monitor for staff.