Kaed Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) Have everything except illegal and maybe bluespace tech start at level 3. Is there any actual redeeming value in having to shove tools and random geegaws found in the room into the deconstructor then printing more to shove in, just to get basic shit availability every single round. Imagine if every round we had to order a supermatter crystal from cargo and faff about for 10 or so minutes while it arrives and is emplaced before anything can actually happen in engineering. Imagine if robotics had to suffer every round being unable to do anything fun until whatever confused newbie happened to join as a scientists figures out how to do research oh wait this already happens Imagine if every cultist round one of the cultists had to lock himself in a bathroom for ten minutes to figure out the rune words in a tedious unnecessary prep phase OH WAIT WE GOT RID OF THAT CAUSE IT WAS STUPID. This makes the science agony at round start for everyone except the small number of people who have figured out the Optimal Research Path and can have everything at level 5+ within ten minutes. Can we just not, and instead give new players some stuff to play with for a bit while they get their bearings before they have to begin actual research? Edited October 15, 2019 by Kaed
GreenBoi Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 HHHNGH, IF ONLY THERE WAS SOMETHING SIMILAR- OH WAIT STILL WAITING ON THIS, GUYS.
ben10083 Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 I feel this suggestion should have just been in green boi's topic, as this is just a small alternative to the idea presented in green bois. I feel that this is a nonissue for the following reasons. 1. There are many guides on this forum to help experienced people do RnD faster 2. If we make everything defaulted to level 3 we might as well just make it the new level one 3. For people new to RnD, it is interesting starting at the beginning for the first time and trying to advance the tech tree.
Kaed Posted October 16, 2019 Author Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, ben10083 said: I feel this suggestion should have just been in green boi's topic, as this is just a small alternative to the idea presented in green bois. I feel that this is a nonissue for the following reasons. 1. There are many guides on this forum to help experienced people do RnD faster 2. If we make everything defaulted to level 3 we might as well just make it the new level one 3. For people new to RnD, it is interesting starting at the beginning for the first time and trying to advance the tech tree. Breaking news, this is Tina Whatafuk, here at Nanotrasen's top of the line research and mining facility, the NSS Aurora. I'm speaking to Urist McTesla, who has just started his first shift here as a research scientist. How did you end up here, Mrs McTesla? Vell, I finished my eight year doctorate in theoretical pheesicks three months ago, and I vas just so pleased to get the acceptance application for this facility! Can you tell us a little about what you do here, Mr McTesla? I'm glad you ahsked! Here, ve take existing technology und deconstruct it to innovate new und exciting experimental technologies! Can you show us how that works? Vell, of course! Ve are taking a complex piece of existing teknology, such as this- Mr McTesla, that looks like a crowbar. Very astute, mein friend! A crowbar ust a basic piece uft teknology and ve can dekonstrukt it learn more about ze basics of tool use! Mr McTesla, I don't understand. Are you telling me millions of dollars in corporate funding goes to researching basic tools like crowbars and wrenches? I notice you just put what looks like a small plastic bucket into the deconstructor too, what was that? Och, that vas a basic matter bin! It is one of the theengs ve are provided by the kompany so zat we can dekonstruct it and get ze magik science machine up unt running! It ees part of ze workplace setup. Sorry, who is that man screaming at you from across the hall? Ah, just be ignoring him, he is ze roboticist. He is needings me to finish taking apart ze wrenches and bukkits and batteries before he can perform his job. I VILL GET TO IT, GREGORY, BE SHUTTINGS UP NOW AND MAKINGS ANOTHER OF ZE CLEANBOTS! ... I thought this station was a top of the line research facility. Why do you need to waste basic tools like this, don't you already have a wealth human knowledge to start from? But you're telling me your robotics division can't even build robots until you finish researching them? Doesn't that seem like a waste of everyone's time? Och, do not be silly! Ve here at Nanotrasen make all our science from scratch! No handholding here. Though, between you unt me, I vas hearing ve once had a department around banging ze rocks together to rediskover fire, but it vas deemed too redundant! --- It's an outdated mechanics system that existed since before we bothered to try roleplaying actual characters in a semi-realistic setting. I don't see a real reason why this prep period is required for people to have fun. It's not fun more than maybe once, and you hold up other departments faffing about with it. Edited October 16, 2019 by Kaed
ben10083 Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 15 hours ago, Kaed said: Breaking news, this is Tina Whatafuk, here at Nanotrasen's top of the line research and mining facility, the NSS Aurora. I'm speaking to Urist McTesla, who has just started his first shift here as a research scientist. How did you end up here, Mrs McTesla? Vell, I finished my eight year doctorate in theoretical pheesicks three months ago, and I vas just so pleased to get the acceptance application for this facility! Can you tell us a little about what you do here, Mr McTesla? I'm glad you ahsked! Here, ve take existing technology und deconstruct it to innovate new und exciting experimental technologies! Can you show us how that works? Vell, of course! Ve are taking a complex piece of existing teknology, such as this- Mr McTesla, that looks like a crowbar. Very astute, mein friend! A crowbar ust a basic piece uft teknology and ve can dekonstrukt it learn more about ze basics of tool use! Mr McTesla, I don't understand. Are you telling me millions of dollars in corporate funding goes to researching basic tools like crowbars and wrenches? I notice you just put what looks like a small plastic bucket into the deconstructor too, what was that? Och, that vas a basic matter bin! It is one of the theengs ve are provided by the kompany so zat we can dekonstruct it and get ze magik science machine up unt running! It ees part of ze workplace setup. Sorry, who is that man screaming at you from across the hall? Ah, just be ignoring him, he is ze roboticist. He is needings me to finish taking apart ze wrenches and bukkits and batteries before he can perform his job. I VILL GET TO IT, GREGORY, BE SHUTTINGS UP NOW AND MAKINGS ANOTHER OF ZE CLEANBOTS! ... I thought this station was a top of the line research facility. Why do you need to waste basic tools like this, don't you already have a wealth human knowledge to start from? But you're telling me your robotics division can't even build robots until you finish researching them? Doesn't that seem like a waste of everyone's time? Och, do not be silly! Ve here at Nanotrasen make all our science from scratch! No handholding here. Though, between you unt me, I vas hearing ve once had a department around banging ze rocks together to rediskover fire, but it vas deemed too redundant! This argument is fruitless, here is a list off the top of my head of similar mechanics, in which we should also remove if we subscribe to this line of reasoning Why set up SM every round Why set up main smes every round Why is fridge emptied every shift? We can freeze humans indefinitely but not food? Just store a large amount of food instead of redoing it Same as above but for drinks Why not just keep warehouse empty and have the stuff just be in departments? Do they palce them back every shift? Why do people leave things in a research station in maint? Most cant even access it let alone drop their stuff there, how unrealistic smh Why do miners lose all their gear every shift? Let them keep it Why lose the artifacts? Why lose the drills? etc As you can see, this argument just doesn't stand for something that is ultimately a game.
SatinsPristOTD Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 43 minutes ago, ben10083 said: Why set up SM every round Why set up main smes every round Why is fridge emptied every shift? We can freeze humans indefinitely but not food? Just store a large amount of food instead of redoing it Same as above but for drinks Why not just keep warehouse empty and have the stuff just be in departments? Do they palce them back every shift? Why do people leave things in a research station in maint? Most cant even access it let alone drop their stuff there, how unrealistic smh Why do miners lose all their gear every shift? Let them keep it Why lose the artifacts? Why lose the drills? etc 1)Cool down/resetting it for *insert SM crystal lore that should exist but doesn't reason here* 2)Because each shift has different people, and they do things differently. The pull from Science might be greater in the morning if that's when NT schedules the mech engineers. 3)Aurora doesn't stop because we aren't there. Our "end of the day" is when next shift picks up, and you could easily RP that next shift doesn't involve us. That or clean up eats it. 4)No one uses the drink display. 5)Clean up places all the "random" shit back into the warehouse. 6)This point is a good one, but I'm for removing maint spawns that aren't basic tools and trash, TBH. 7)You could argue the point system is them "checking out" a suit, not buying it. Like a "Rent-A-Tool" situation. 8)Once studied and stored, they get moved to a secure warehouse. One that won't EMP a nearby doctor. 9)They break after the hard use. Hence why they're cheap and common. Furthermore, none of your points make the round LESS enjoyable. Setting the SM isn't tedious and takes me all of three minutes to do. Research is a fuck mothering nightmare and is just boring. Gouge my eyes out boring. The crowbar research point is FANTASTIC. Why are we levers? We've known about fulcrums for YEARS. LITERAL YEARS.
Kaed Posted October 17, 2019 Author Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, SatinsPristOTD said: The crowbar research point is FANTASTIC. Why are we levers? We've known about fulcrums for YEARS. LITERAL YEARS. *centuries. Literal centuries. The problem that you are missing. @ben10083, in your defense of 'it's just a game', is that it defies a certain level of suspension of disbelief and does not provide fun content. As an example of this system, our medical code involves placing bandaids and gauze on flesh wounds and ointment on burns, which then clear up over the next ten minutes or so. Burns and wounds do not heal this fast in real life, but there is a direct correlation between 'treating wounds' and 'wounds heal' that provides a simple connection between the two, and the expedited healing time just serves to make the game more fun than 'realistically' sitting around and suffering in agony for weeks on end while your gunshot or stab wound heals. Game logic is used constructively in this case, to improve the enjoyment of players with a veneer of realism behind it. If our medical system worked by burning herbs and using leeches and bloodletting, no one would be able to take it fucking seriously. It's detached from our understanding of medicine. This is also why psychology right now is an atrocity that many people complain about. By that token, it makes zero sense to be stuffing crowbars, buckets, and batteries into a magical science machine to eventually be able to build guns and machinery from them in a high tech research facility. There is no way for me as a player to conceptualize in character why my future scientist is researching a goddamn crowbar for its secrets other than 'game logic lol'. It pulls you away from the experience as you are performing an unnecessary, repetitive chore simply for the sake of it being the way it is and we've always done it that way. By increasing the baseline to level 3, you essentially cut out the immersion shattering low level grinding where you do nothing but cannibalize various objects and tools in the R&D room for the sake of padding out prep time. Edited October 17, 2019 by Kaed
Nantei Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 5 hours ago, geeves said: The game should be fun. This pretty much nails it on the head. Don't lock fun behind a not fun thing. I enjoy setting up the SM. It's a fun roundstart chore to me. R&D is about as fun as pulling teeth. I can barely even icly teach it to someone because it's such gamey nonsense. There's so little to R&D and it's incredibly tedious. Roundstart chores should be fun or not be in the game.
geeves Posted October 19, 2019 Posted October 19, 2019 https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/7188 Gib feedback.
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