The ditching nuke operative

[nanotoxin]

So, I play nuke ops once in a blue moon, and when I do, I do, I do something that seems to get people upset.

What I do is I have the rest of the nuke ops gather everything onto the station, wether it be the nuke contents, hostages, engines or whatever it may be, I then send them back to grab something else that's irrelevant and then I "leave them" at the aurora and take off with the loot/hostages.

Now I've been told that this "isn't really good rp" "poor RP" "Poor Behaviour" and "/very/ poor RP"

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and I'd like to speak about it

To start off, I mostly just circle the station. I don't generally just go straight back to base. Still giving them a chance to get back on board and give Keys what he deserves for threating to abandon them. Secondly, it creates RP scenarios for the operatives left behind instead of going back to the base to just chair RP. Sure they'll get satly IC and OOC but they're not just sitting in the sydni base. Thirdly, I do my best to RP with hostages if I have them. This round that just passed for example, the tree just disarmed me and took my id, to get on the shuttle and call for help. If I wasn't speaking to Valk however, i possibly could've tried to talk to them.

[canon35]

It's hilarious to have that happen.

If the nuke ops are raiders/pirates, then they should be expecting a possible betrayal.

[Frances]

Whether this is good or not in context depends entirely on the execution.

There's nothing wrong with the idea on paper - a fair bit of back-stabbing and double-crossing is always fun. However, I'd be curious to know why exactly people (well, at least one mod) were having issues with what you did. Were the team's objectives completed, and if so did you actually engage with the rest of the antags throughout your betrayal?

[Susan]

We were working together and he randomly vanished because 'lel I'm greedy'. No build up. No reason to suspect him. Just fucked off for no reason.

We weren't raiders or pirates. We were Syndicate ops, which means betrayal ends up with you dead. Because there would ostensibly be other Syndicate members on the base.

[VoltageHero]

I fully support Nuke Ops leaving other operatives behind if they're in a no-win situation. The others are dead, captured, etc.

That said, if I recall correctly, during the round the Nuke Ops were all still fully operational, and supposedly had more planned to do, but it got messed up due to you moving the shuttle suddenly.

While I understand why you may think it's a cool idea, the way you do it leaves you no room to be anything but the bad guy.

[nanotoxin]

I grabbed the role of leader/coordinator as soon as the opportunity presented itself so that way I could hatch the plan in my favour. (there were four members including myself) We were to send two people to xeno bio to plant a bomb and wait for my mark to detonate it. I was going to detonate it before one of the members broke into the maintenance tunnel and broke into secure tech storage and steal the Ai upload circuit. We would then use the Ai to grant us access and keep us safe as we looted the station. Of course, before we finished entirely, i would leave with them still on the station.

Of course it was going to plan until the two that went to blow up xeno brought back hostages.when just before they had called an ERT. I then had to wait for them to bring the second hostage, panicing that the ERT was coming. So I told them to go raid the armoury, and once they had gotten into the station, I took off to the mining asteroid. talked to the other operatives about "thanks for the loot, i'm not programmed with sharing (I was an IPC) " Then yeah. Went back to the sydni base. One of the hostages was getting lippy, and since we had to hostages, i killed the lippy one. The other then broke free of the cuffs, managed to disarm me in one attempt, snatch my ID, and go and hide on the shuttle. If it wasn't for Valk speaking to me I would've tried coaxing the tree out of the shuttle, but I was focused on defending my actions, so the RP for us on the syndi base went stale.

The thing in common however with my ditching is that it happens after the ERT is called, so it'd be safe to assume the others are dead

[Chaznoodles]

If you had the IC reasoning for it, I don't see why not. This is roleplay, which is all about creating situations.

[mrimatool]

What Chaz said, the Nukeops on the station now have no way of getting back, therefore creating RP on station.

Also I've done this myself too but in a slightly different way and with a few more hints than this.

It all started when we'd robbed pretty much all the station's loot, and when I was Pilot. When the field team came back one person short I suggested we should just ditch them and split the money three ways (first hint) then the team leader tried to get me to just fly the ship back to base, I told him no no we could blow up the station and even get more money (hint number two that's I'm a scummy fuck) then when the two others leave to go get the disk I evilly chuckle(hint number three that I've got less morales than an SS scientist.) then when they're on board I laugh more evilly(hint number four) then watch them die and just don't help. Then I leave with all the loot before returning to the station just to grab a bit more.

[Conspire2Ignite]

The thing about nuke ops is that they aren't just Joe Schmo that the Syndicate cobbled together. They're supposed to be Brothers. They are supposed to be a team working together for a cause greater than themselves. Leaving behind the dead to return to base alone, fine. There's no saving a dead man in the clutches of the enemy, not unless you're more-than-slightly suicidal. But leaving behind your still-living team is dishonorable and is likely to get you shot when you report in. You can spin whatever tale of "Oh, they diiiiied" but all it takes is a glance at the ship's cameras screen to know that your teammates are still alive and floating in space somewhere. Not to mention them cursing your name over the comms.

Someone earlier in the round asked if they could be a double agent. Like the nuke ops don't have enough to deal with when the entire security force, crew, and possible ERT is against them, let's plant an opponent right on their laps, too.

That being said, you don't have to like the people you're working with. If you and another agent have a little "nemesis" thing going and you two happen to be paired up to go onto the station... Well, let's just say, I would find it amusing if you two had an exchange where you cursed each other out and one shot and killed the other, then blamed it on the station's security. But not every round. Not even every other round. Because if you do something too often, it starts to annoy people. If your MO every round is to do "this" or "that," it gets upsetting. Just something to keep in mind.

[Frances]

The thing about nuke ops is that they aren't just Joe Schmo that the Syndicate cobbled together. They're supposed to be Brothers. They are supposed to be a team working together for a cause greater than themselves.

Huh, that's not written anywhere that I know of. Shouldn't people be free to roleplay their antags with some extent of freedom?

I mean, the only issue I could see is people being utterly stupid or constantly fighting in a way that impairs the ops to the point they can't get anything done. In which case, failure to RP, but if you wanna be a remorseless, backstabbing space pirate, and you actually roleplay it well (which doesn't seem to be what happened here), I don't see why not.

[nanotoxin]

This last round, yes I admit, I didn't RP the ditching very well. I was rushed and feeling flustered as they were bringing hostages and the ERT was on it's way. But my previous rounds I had done so, and fairly well I think. One round even more RP was brought about for the security and ERT as the ones who were left behind gave up the cords to the syndi base and the security team and ERT had come raided the base arresting me and taking back all that was stolen.

[VoltageHero]

This last round, yes I admit, I didn't RP the ditching very well. I was rushed and feeling flustered as they were bringing hostages and the ERT was on it's way. But my previous rounds I had done so, and fairly well I think. One round even more RP was brought about for the security and ERT as the ones who were left behind gave up the cords to the syndi base and the security team and ERT had come raided the base arresting me and taking back all that was stolen.

 

What's the point of this thread overall, may I ask?

I thought it was to see if your actions during one round were justified or not. Bringing in another round and using it to compare with this round, kinda takes away from that.

If you're trying to show people how you RP, that's fine too.

[nanotoxin]

Well voltage had told me people were complaining and had complained in the past. I made this incase they wished to discuss

[Jamini]

Betraying your living team as a merc is violating the most basic rule on my Heavy RP servers: "Don't be a dick."

It's not interesting, or fun, for anyone but you when you off and leave behind your team. I've done it before myself with an especially bad team, and in hindsight it was something that I regret to an extreme. Merc operatives already have a plethora of enemies. The entire crew, security, the ERT, and infections all work against them and make it an exceedingly dangerous and difficult role to play out. Outright betraying your entire team is, essentially, the epitome of dickery OOCly, and ICly it would almost certainly result in you getting executed by your higher ups once they discovered what you did.

Shooting allies in the back who are captured? Fine. The occasional merc on merc scuffle? Fine. Abandoning the DEAD and DYING? Perfectly fine. Abandoning your team just because you are an asshole? Not fine.

[Frances]

Betraying your living team as a merc is violating the most basic rule on my Heavy RP servers: "Don't be a dick."

Shouldn't people be able to roleplay assholes as long as it makes for fun and interesting situations?

I would have no problems being double-crossed as long as it was thought out, and actually gave me a chance to react. I feel like you're applying a very black and white judgement to this.

[Skull132]

This last round, yes I admit, I didn't RP the ditching very well. I was rushed and feeling flustered as they were bringing hostages and the ERT was on it's way. But my previous rounds I had done so, and fairly well I think. One round even more RP was brought about for the security and ERT as the ones who were left behind gave up the cords to the syndi base and the security team and ERT had come raided the base arresting me and taking back all that was stolen.

 

Then this specific instance, it didn't add much to the round, and simply made it go off target. If you're feeling pressured to do an option bit, you probably should not do it at all. So in this case, in my opinion, my moderator was in the right. What you did had no build up, and was effectively a "dickmove" pulled against the rest of the team, for the sake of pulling it against the rest of the team. And not adding anything to the round.

In other circumstances, where the roleplay to facilitate such a thing is actually present and enjoyable, then it would not be something to be harped on. But it is still a double-edged sword, and very situationally dependent. The more people you have on both sides, the more important it is to weigh the option properly. Further more, this should be considered: If you have even a single reason to second guess yourself while making a decision like this, then you are not sure in yourself, and you should probably not do it. That's how these things go.

[Conservatron]

The way I see it, operatives are typically highly trained, they are well equipped, and would probably represent a sizable investment by the specific corp/ organization that employs them. At the very least, you are running the risk of pissing off a number of organizations for willfully wasting their investment in time/ resources/ manpower/ training. At the worst, you are offering up vital information on your operational readiness by leaving operatives on the station, to be captured or killed.

Second, you get a rep for leaving teams high and dry and the next time you're assigned to a team you might get a bullet through the brain.

So you should always think twice as to whether or not its worth it to ditch your entire team on enemy ground, think long and hard, because there are more considerations rather than 'im gonna increase my share!!!'

Now, as to addressing it, lorewise syndicate isn't fleshed out very well, but perhaps to represent the investment in individual team members, the organization heading the operation could issue compensation reduction based on how much gear needs to be replaced and how many members are lost on the station. So unless you get specific orders from your sponsor to kill/ abandon members of your team, the financial incentive is drastically reduced.

[Guest]

The issue is not the lore, nor any IC issue at hand. Stop saying that it's an IC issue.

It is a player-driven decision (READ AS: OUT OF CHARACTER ISSUE, THEREFORE REALLY DUMB) to do things to dick over other players for little reason other than for the lulz.

By being placed into a team (by RNG, but still) you agree to cooperate with the rest of the antagonists in your team, communicate as a team, and to please not do anything that would intentionally compromise the team.

This is why people say nuke is shit, ladies and gentlemen. There are so many fucking instances of miscommunication and not enough thinking about things that make people fucking bitch and whine over a poorly coded 2d spaceman BYOND game.

None of us is as fucking bad as all of us. Either we fucking work together to make this game mode enjoyable or else this game mode isn't fucking worth my vote anymore.

You wanna know how you can start making shit better ICly? Start making good player-driven decisions. It doesn't fucking matter if it makes sense, as long as people have a fucking hell of a ride for the round. Consider everyone else before you, even if it fucking gets you taken out of the round.

[nanotoxin]

for little reason other than for the lulz.

I'm not sure if you just commented without reading .. or what .. but it's creating more RP opportunity

 

This is why people say nuke is shit

I'd think people would say Nuke is shit because most rounds go a little something like this

-bomb armoury

-bomb cargo

-take hostage

-call ert

-ert kills nuke ops

-evac

 

Consider everyone else before you, even if it fucking gets you taken out of the round

 

Again, I go back to the station for chair rp with myself, and now, the other nuke ops, instead of having chair rp, are now in a fun, new situation.

Assuming, from your signature, that you're the one who plays jauntla. You were just a nuke op last night iirc, and you sent us a bomb (through telescience +1 for creativity however) you took hostages, and ended up being unsuccesful agaisnt the ERT. I heard that there was some fun RP on the syndi shuttle though, but the rest of the station was forced to deal with a huge hole in the ground, and HONK! HONK! HONK!(again kudos). The reason some people hate nuke is repitition.

[Frances]

I'm not sure if you just commented without reading .. or what .. but it's creating more RP opportunity

There is a way to create roleplay. You could argue griefers create roleplay, because 1. woah, a crazy person just blew themselves up, that's quite an event and 2. there's a huge hole through the station engineers now have to fix.

However, people still find griefers horrid to deal with.

Why? Firstly, it feels cheap. The situation created is unoriginal (a generic action scenario happened without context), and the person basically put no effort in making their act interesting or unique. Secondly, if the same thing happens over and over with no variation, it actually gets tiring.

This is why ditching your teammates for no reason other than "hah fuck you" is pretty much a bad decision. If you provide good leadup throughout the round, get into meaningful arguments with your team, and actually create context for your action, I assure you you'll be much more appreciated for creating something memorable than you would be by simply moving the shuttle without warning.

[Skull132]

for little reason other than for the lulz.

I'm not sure if you just commented without reading .. or what .. but it's creating more RP opportunity

 

Except you kind of admitted that you did it for those reasons. Well, not precisely, but,

This last round, yes I admit, I didn't RP the ditching very well. I was rushed and feeling flustered as they were bringing hostages and the ERT was on it's way.

 

Also, FFrances is a damned ninja and I was about to post what she just did. So refer to FFrances's post, and I advise you give my initial response a once-over as well, because it falls in line with what she said.

[Jamini]

Betraying your living team as a merc is violating the most basic rule on my Heavy RP servers: "Don't be a dick."

Shouldn't people be able to roleplay assholes as long as it makes for fun and interesting situations?

 

"Fun and Interesting" should be fun for as many people as possible, and especially the other antagonists. If you are outright screwing over an ally for little to no reason it quickly moves from "fun and interesting" to "annoying and stupid" and will make the people affected more likely to outright leave the round. There are very few situations where ditching a still-alive team is more "fun or interesting" for the people who were betrayed in a pointless and immersion-breaking way. While I wholeheartedly agree with leaving behind people who are foolish (ignoring calls to return to the ship), dead, or captured, I cannot condone betraying your team as a merc in a general sense.

Most of the time, abandoning most of a merc team isn't "fun" except for the person betraying his allies. It's being an OOC dick and laughing to yourself/to the ghosts over how you screwed over the other people on your team. It's not a grey situation, it's fairly black and white.

[Guest]

Assuming, from your signature, that you're the one who plays jauntla. You were just a nuke op last night iirc, and you sent us a bomb (through telescience +1 for creativity however) you took hostages, and ended up being unsuccesful agaisnt the ERT. I heard that there was some fun RP on the syndi shuttle though, but the rest of the station was forced to deal with a huge hole in the ground, and HONK! HONK! HONK!(again kudos). The reason some people hate nuke is repitition.

 

While some people might not see it as relevant to the topic, I may as well detail what happened during the round.

The bomb we sent to the bridge, it wasn't my call to make. The thing with nuke teams is, more often than not, people will do what they want whether or not the others want to do it as well. The hostages? Not only did we take them for meaningful hostage RP, but we did it for leverage so we could trade them off alive and well for whatever supplies we needed at the moment (often, spaceacillin, for infections). As for being unsuccessful against the ERT? Well, you can't win 4-5vDoubleDigit fights. It's how it is. Not to mention that the ERT have equipment and armor that have the same stats as the nuke ops, so there's that.

The honking was telecomms scripts, and I've had enough of my laughs to know that people will expect it now and meta. Hence, I'm likely not to do it again.

But it all has a purpose. To create conflict, to create fun situations, and they had meaningful escalation beforehand.

[Guest]

Right, I was a nuke op that round as well. I'll just add that the AI core and the bomb at xeno were both my plan, except the bomb at xeno didn't work as well because people don't listen. If they had told the fucking AI not to hamper security, we could've blown the entire security department at once, while they were preparing to breach xeno.

What Nano said, he took the role of leader/coordinator, well, no, we don't need that. I figure 90% of time they are the one who ditches everyone and are pretty useless as far as everything else goes. A good nuke leader can coordinate from the station, or the very least, join the action once the opening move is made. This way, they won't ditch everyone 'coz of monez' when the real reason was they were bored and felt left out from the action. It will at also give the first man to the shuttle a chance to be the tritor, so then, everyone would need to watch each other and produce some fun backstabber RP to pull it off.

So, yeah, please stop with the I'm the driver thing, because its detremental to the gamemode and you're issued a spacesuit for a reason. And no, you don't someone to move the fucking shuttle. If we ignore the fact that the driver usually doesn't even fucking listen to you, the fact you're so mobile, and can just circle the fucking station in minutes, blows the need for them completely. Unless there are hostages, no one is actually intended to stay on the shuttle.

[Conservatron]

I will say this re: driver

the syndicate shuttle is woefully easy to break into as the wires are identical to all other wires on station. It might be considered Rambo-y, but a single engineer can up and steal the shuttle out from under syndicate hands as the computers and doors inside the station aren't id locked. Having an armed driver on the shuttle keeps this from happening, and allows for the ship to move at a moments notice, like if an operative is in danger and managed to get outside far from where the shuttle is