Player Complaint - Estoytrucha

[Estoytrucha]

The only thing I dispute was the him telling me firmly once again to leave him alone, from the framework of this complaint. I had thought we were on good terms and circumstance had him ignoring me due to hectic rounds or more important conversations. If he did it in looc at one point, I must have missed it. Our DM logs do not reflect him firmly telling me to leave me alone after he said he had forgiven me, more or less, and invited me back to join our shared server.

Edit: And the claim about me being here to shame and crybully my way out of the culpability for the mistake in the first place. Regardless how vision and/or mental issues played into it and the episode that followed, I STILL damaged Ryan's reputation and gave a larger metagrudge ammo it didn't need. I want people to see this thread, mostly, to make SURE they know that the rumor was false. I couldn't set the record straight with ghosts who watched me ICly spread it for months without knowing it was wrong. This is the closest I can do to that. Also, so that Goolies can be certain that if I do approach him or say anything (which I won't, but I understand him not trusting me and still being hurt), other players know the deal and can ahelp that shit immediately.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Estoytrucha

[goolie]

It’s very late over here but I really, really need to say this. How can I take your word that you weren’t continuing to tell people? How do I know that you’re not even still doing it? You continued to do it when Alberyk told you not to, you did it in the past and even if you didn’t intend for it to be spread about, telling people about a situation like this is of course going to be gossiped about. You’ve already changed your story multiple times in this thread, and gone around doing the exact thing I said you would do. You’ve been scoring pity points once again, by asking people from Aurora if you really are manipulative and a bad person, and apologising to everyone. You’ve gone on about how you should leave the server again, like you did last time and you’ve left all of our mutual servers again. I didn’t ask you to leave anything, I don’t expect you to leave anything and I am not calling you a manipulative abuser. You are however, taking advantage of your problems IRL to try and push the blame off of yourself. 

Just today as soon as the complaint went public you tried to spin it around in a private discord and say there was confidential information here and that you were dreading people seeing the complaint. This complaint got taken down and I can only assume that was something to do with you, as I messaged an admin and I had to provide confirmation that we all agreed on it going public. You said for it to go public! How can you try and say I made it public with any malice? We agreed for it to go public! Read your previous replies in the thread. This was going to stay confidential on your behalf, and you agreed to make it public. You're going back on your words from earlier in the thread also. You said that you weren’t trying to come off as suicidal when you said “I don’t want to be here anymore” and then later on you’re telling me you never said it. You can’t boil all of this down to bad memory. Your story keeps changing and I don't think I can wholeheartedly believe that you were trying to rectify the situation anymore.

I am quickly going to write on the facts that aren’t entirely clear as well. The reason that I called them emotionally manipulative is that at the start of this Estoy was going around, leaving all of the servers that we shared and using her mental health as a crux to gain sympathy from her friends. It got so bad that players who Estoy had been speaking to came to me, to voice their concern. This is why I accepted your apology because I was worried for you. How could I stay mad at you when I am being told you're telling people that this is making you feel physically sick? Making you feel like you don't belong here anymore, and you don't want to be around anymore. I couldn't. I tried my best to try and sweep this under the rug for you, for your own wellbeing but I was forced into making this complaint. You've told me in the past about what you're struggling with and I appreciate it and would never share your private life but, that has nothing to do with what happened here.

It isn’t fair for you to use your mental and physical disabilities to attempt to push the blame onto someone else or away from you. You started the rumour, and you made it worse by instead of telling people that it didn’t happen, you attempted to get witnesses on your side by starting conversations on discord with a line similar to “Do you remember that round where Ryan tried to bully Iskssi into his bed?” If you meant well why would you be asking so many players this? As for the continued yarn spinning? Estoy has admitted themselves that after Alberyk told them to stop talking of everything that happened, they continued to DM people about what was going on. During this time I was still getting messages from people who had heard about it and were wanting to get my side of the story. If you’re told to stop talking about something, you stop. It doesn’t mean you are allowed to continue to talk about what happened but do so in a private server. Alberyk also told you to stop contacting me as well, I believe. That might not be spot on but if it’s not? I told you to stop contacting me also. Granted it wasn't as "firm" as it should of been but you must remember that at the time you were telling everybody how the circumstances had left you ill and depressed. I believed that you were being affected negatively by it all so I tried to end it by accepting your apology and moving on. Me telling you that we need to go our separate ways should of been enough, but you went out of your way to join into the rounds to come up to me and start conversations in LOOC. I immediately walked off and tried to get away from you but apparently you couldn’t see that I didn’t want to engage.

Edited March 10, 2021 by goolie

[Estoytrucha]

18 hours ago, goolie said:

It’s very late over here but I really, really need to say this. How can I take your word that you weren’t continuing to tell people? How do I know that you’re not even still doing it? You continued to do it when Alberyk told you not to, you did it in the past and even if you didn’t intend for it to be spread about, telling people about a situation like this is of course going to be gossiped about. You’ve already changed your story multiple times in this thread, and gone around doing the exact thing I said you would do. You’ve been scoring pity points once again, by asking people from Aurora if you really are manipulative and a bad person, and apologising to everyone. You’ve gone on about how you should leave the server again, like you did last time and you’ve left all of our mutual servers again. I didn’t ask you to leave anything, I don’t expect you to leave anything and I am not calling you a manipulative abuser. You are however, taking advantage of your problems IRL to try and push the blame off of yourself. 

Just today as soon as the complaint went public you tried to spin it around in a private discord and say there was confidential information here and that you were dreading people seeing the complaint. This complaint got taken down and I can only assume that was something to do with you, as I messaged an admin and I had to provide confirmation that we all agreed on it going public. You said for it to go public! How can you try and say I made it public with any malice? We agreed for it to go public! Read your previous replies in the thread. This was going to stay confidential on your behalf, and you agreed to make it public. You're going back on your words from earlier in the thread also. You said that you weren’t trying to come off as suicidal when you said “I don’t want to be here anymore” and then later on you’re telling me you never said it. You can’t boil all of this down to bad memory. Your story keeps changing and I don't think I can wholeheartedly believe that you were trying to rectify the situation anymore.

I am quickly going to write on the facts that aren’t entirely clear as well. The reason that I called them emotionally manipulative is that at the start of this Estoy was going around, leaving all of the servers that we shared and using her mental health as a crux to gain sympathy from her friends. It got so bad that players who Estoy had been speaking to came to me, to voice their concern. This is why I accepted your apology because I was worried for you. How could I stay mad at you when I am being told you're telling people that this is making you feel physically sick? Making you feel like you don't belong here anymore, and you don't want to be around anymore. I couldn't. I tried my best to try and sweep this under the rug for you, for your own wellbeing but I was forced into making this complaint. You've told me in the past about what you're struggling with and I appreciate it and would never share your private life but, that has nothing to do with what happened here.

It isn’t fair for you to use your mental and physical disabilities to attempt to push the blame onto someone else or away from you. You started the rumour, and you made it worse by instead of telling people that it didn’t happen, you attempted to get witnesses on your side by starting conversations on discord with a line similar to “Do you remember that round where Ryan tried to bully Iskssi into his bed?” If you meant well why would you be asking so many players this? As for the continued yarn spinning? Estoy has admitted themselves that after Alberyk told them to stop talking of everything that happened, they continued to DM people about what was going on. During this time I was still getting messages from people who had heard about it and were wanting to get my side of the story. If you’re told to stop talking about something, you stop. It doesn’t mean you are allowed to continue to talk about what happened but do so in a private server. Alberyk also told you to stop contacting me as well, I believe. That might not be spot on but if it’s not? I told you to stop contacting me also. Granted it wasn't as "firm" as it should of been but you must remember that at the time you were telling everybody how the circumstances had left you ill and depressed. I believed that you were being affected negatively by it all so I tried to end it by accepting your apology and moving on. Me telling you that we need to go our separate ways should of been enough, but you went out of your way to join into the rounds to come up to me and start conversations in LOOC. I immediately walked off and tried to get away from you but apparently you couldn’t see that I didn’t want to engage.

Goolies, you didn’t say you wanted this private because you wanted to protect me. You said you wanted this private because I am a monster who will ply people with pity to attack you. I reacted to the attack on my intentions and responded with the only way I thought would make this the least ambiguous.

As for the rest I can only say that whoever is sending you continued information from the server I will now never use again as a safe place to speak in confidence is feeding you skewed info. Possibly to help you, possibly to hurt me. But I wasn’t out there spreading the rumor to a bunch of people. Look at the time stamps, look at evidence. Let other people in the community submit evidence if I have been doing that. Another reason to make this public.

I wasn’t proliferating the story about Ryan. I asked the stuff before the Ir, let alone Alberyk’s note. Just let the admins do their job. Submit anything you want to submit. Have the third party submit anything they have. 
 

I have nothing else to say or offer. I understand you not trusting me. Trust admins and your friends. You have many. If I have been going around telling people the rumor, they will come forward to Garn, I am certain.

 

[goolie]

I made the complaint confidential because you said the ordeal was causing you to be depressed and ill. We both agreed in this thread to make it public. I did not call you a monster, read the thread. You are posting in your safe space that is a community discord for Aurora. Nobody is going behind your back to get these messages, it’s a community discord. Everyone in there can see it. You’ve said yourself in this thread that you continued to speak on the matter of Ryan and Isski even when told not to. Go back and read what you’ve put. I’m not going to be replying anymore because this is just turning into a back and forth argument. Let’s both wait until the admins ask questions.

Edited March 11, 2021 by goolie

[Garnascus]

I am seeing two claims repeated over and over and i do not really see any substance to them. So, show me some logs of estoytrucha being emotionally manipulative and of you telling them to leave you alone. 

[Garnascus]

Also, two things i am super curious about @Estoytrucha . Why on earth did you not ahelp it originally if you thought Goolie's character had tried to "bully someone into his bed"? There is literally no grey area here. That type of RP is explicitly against our rules. Also when alberyk told you to stop spreading the rumor why didnt you just drop it? Why did you continue sharing it with people in DMs by your own admission earlier in this thread? Isnt that how this thing spiraled out of control originally? 

[Estoytrucha]

3 hours ago, Garnascus said:

Also, two things i am super curious about @Estoytrucha . Why on earth did you not ahelp it originally if you thought Goolie's character had tried to "bully someone into his bed"? There is literally no grey area here. That type of RP is explicitly against our rules. Also when alberyk told you to stop spreading the rumor why didnt you just drop it? Why did you continue sharing it with people in DMs by your own admission earlier in this thread? Isnt that how this thing spiraled out of control originally? 

 

A) Because people do things that are against the rules sometimes, apparently, and hitting on a grieving person didn't seem to be beyond the pale of what I thought was allowed on server. Thirdly, because I really liked Goolies and didn't want to get him in trouble. In all honesty? I was stupid. In a perfect world this would have occurred to me and I would have time outted and asked Goolies for clarification immediately and then ahelped him if my version of events was true. In this arena I will say I fucked up until I'm blue in the face and hopefully I've learned enough from this experience to never do it again.

B) I treated it as a confessional and not as a means to send the rumor out. It's the difference between saying "I misremembered something Ryan said in character and made a situation look a lot worse than it was" vs "-insert the whole rumor here-". I hope the difference is fairly apparent. 

Still a bad move in retrospect, and the answer would be because it didn't occur to me that this was a violation of the gag order. It wasn't promoting the rumor as truth, it wasn't IC, it wasn't in an open system to spread everywhere. It was four dms in confidence (two of which were in responses to people wondering why I left the mutual servers with Goolies) and one voicechat with what I had thought of as my best friends/gaming group on a private, unaffiliated server. Not a mistake I will make again.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Estoytrucha

[Garnascus]

Alright, considering the totality of the situation here i will be applying a week ban. There are several egregious leaps here that just cannot be condoned. You did not ahelp the original incident, you spread a rumor that can and was pretty damaging to a player's reputation. You have to understand this kind of thing tends to provoke people into doing really dumb things in response, such as trying to doxx or swat the person responsible. You also did not really drop it when alberyk told you to. 

On the plus side it does appear you made an effort to attempt to retract the rumor you started. Whatever your intentions where in doing it are not really relevant, the fact remains you did it and i think its enough to kick a permaban OFF of the table here. 

With this i will consider the matter closed. 

[Garnascus]

Locking and archiving.