Player Complaint - Estoytrucha

[goolie]

BYOND Key: goolies

Game ID: N/A

Player Byond Key: Estoytrucha

Staff involved: Alberyk

Reason for complaint: In January I was playing one of my Cargo Technicians, Ryan Barrett and I was approached by Estoy on her Scientist Taika Thomson who began berating Ryan for being a horrible person. In fairness he is a pretty horrible person and I went along with it because I have a lot of interactions like this on Ryan but then Estoy implied that Ryan had raped an Unathi on station, and it spiralled into LOOC. She accused me of "going too far" and that I should ask the player of the Unathi if I didn't believe her that it happened. I immediately cryoed and went to one of the Unathi players friends who was able to get into contact with said Unathi player. The best part of this is that the player in question who plays the Unathi who had been "raped" by my character, had NO IDEA what Estoy was talking about, and told their friend who was equally as confused, to tell me that there wasn't an issue, as nothing like this ever occurred. I was rightfully furious with Estoy as they had accused me of basically acting out some rape fantasy on station and instead of coming to me privately about it they decided to air it out in LOOC where everyone around us, and all the ghosts spectating could see.

Estoy came to me in my DMs and apologised for it, I ignored it for a while but eventually accepted it and said it was best that we keep our distance and not talk about this in the future. After a few days I had found out that Estoy had spread this rumour to other people, who then had spread it further and I was getting DMs from other people about the situation. They admitted to speaking to other people about it but promised to tell them the "revised story" but I don't believe they ever did, and one of the other players that they had told had made an IR about it happening. I messaged said player about what had happened and the IR was taken down. I was even more angry now than last time and I told them I didn't want anything to do with them after I had found out they spread this false narrative. 

I think it was no more than a week after I got a PM from somebody telling me that Estoy had been in their DMs, breaking down and playing the depression card. They had left all of the Aurora servers as well as another discord that we shared mutual membership in. I felt that I was forced into messaging them and trying to get them to calm down as they were hysterical and the person that had messaged me was concerned about it all, and wanted me to be the bigger man. I eventually was able to get them to stop blaming themselves for what had happened but I personally believe this was just a tactic to garner sympathy after doing such a stupid thing. I told them firmly again that I did not want anything to do with them and that was that. 

The only reason that I make this complaint is after telling them at least three times to leave me alone, they are constantly coming up to me in game and writing "Hi goolies :)" over and over in LOOC and then trying to get me to interact with their characters.  I feel as if I cannot say anything too firm to them, as they have broken into tears and PMed other people where they play the victim card and basically emotionally manipulate the entire situation. I am at wits end and I was not sure what else to do but make a private complaint about this. If I were to make it public, I assume that Estoy would once again try and play with peoples emotions for sympathy reasons. I was told by the person who made me aware that she does this, that it happens often.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? I ended up messaging Alberyk who told Estoy to drop the entire thing and not speak of it again.

Approximate Date/Time: This happened around the 10th of January, and has continued on from there until now.

Since this happened such a while ago, I am currently in the process of collecting all of the screenshots. If whoever takes this complaint can DM me on discord, I can send the ones I have collected so far to you.

[goolie]

Thank you to Arrow who helped me post this, after a frustrating hour of being met with a 500 internal server error! I am going to post the screenshots now that I can finally create a thread. These are all the conversations I have had with Estoy since January to present day. I can give some timeframe as to why each conversation occurred if necessary. It may of been my own fault when I appear to come off as soft in response to some of her messages. You have to realise that the change in tone happened after the DMs I had gotten from another player where they were telling me Estoy was saying things along the lines of, "It would be better if I am not around." "I'm not useful to anyone." "I should just disappear"  and such. At the end of our conversations I just ended up ignoring them, until they started coming up to me in game and bothering me there also. In regards to "BB" this was a shared server that we were both in. She ended up leaving it and every other server in reaction to me reporting the rape accusation to Alberyk, as mentioned in the post above.

It’s pretty late as of right now so in the morning I will work on getting screenshots from other people. Mainly the screenshots of Estoy telling people that she was depressed and borderline suicidal over the ordeal. I may not be able to get these, as this was told to me in confidence. I will work on getting the conversation between the Unathi player and Estoy, and the player that Estoy convinced to IR Ryan over the rape allegations. 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by goolie

[goolie]

Here are the screenshots of the player who plays the Unathi that Ryan had "raped" denying that anything of the sort had ever happened. 

[goolie]

I also have the screenshots from January where they accused me in IC and it ended with the conversation bleeding into LOOC. This is where they say that Meltharas would agree that Ryan had raped their character. 

[Garnascus]

@Estoytrucha I have added you to a group that allows you to see this thread and respond to it. Please give us your side of things and we can go from there. Nobody else can see this thread as it is a confidential complaint, please keep that in mind. 

[Estoytrucha]

Quite simply put; I acknowledged my mistake as I had apparently misremembered the entire thing. Though, I never, EVER accused Ryan of having raped that character. Ever.
Taika had misconstrued the offer to go somewhere private to talk to Issksi about the death while she was crying as propositioning. Given the tone and Ryan's tendency to bully and the lack of ability to convey tone in text, along with what was probably visible pollution, I think that was a normal mistake to make.

She didn't go for it at any rate in round, as Issana wouldn't allow it, but it came across as being forward and sex-pesty rather than an actual rape allegation. I never insinuated that it went further than that. More than a "baby, get back to my place and I'll comfort you plenty". 

I was wrong. I admitted I was wrong. I also didn't clear the slate in time with one notable player as soon as I found out because I felt sick to my stomach about it and another player put up an IR, which I asked them ICly not to do. 
Edit: One of the characters with the character who made the IR when they were discussing possibly making it was a barkeeper at the time, and I set the record straight with them within a couple of days in looc. The other characters Taika had confided in about that were not around much anymore or were the one I knew I would find it the hardest to talk to. It was an ancient mistake.)

After that I apologized and I did, truly, experience a massive relapse in mental illness. I never told anyone to tell Goolies about this. The intention was to share actual emotional angst. I had also believed Goolies forgave me after a week and my official apology. I didn't realize his request to have me maintain the order was still in place.


 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Estoytrucha

[Estoytrucha]

I thought I had been forgiven and I was trying to rebuild the bridge. But, again, I never said Ryan did more than be sleazy in Iskssi's direction. I NEVER said he raped her. I wouldn't have even been involved in a roleplay where that was a part.

[Estoytrucha]

I don't know what I can do about the "playing for sympathy" and "being manipulative". I am mentally ill, I am shut in, I am disabled. I cannot change who I am and being able to share my vulnerabilities makes me who I am. If needed, I can show other discord chats with players in which I specifically said I wanted to 'give Goolies space to be angry'. I was upset but I never expected him to fix it. All I wanted was to make sure the game wasn't ruined for him forever. If you think I need to leave the community after all this I understand. I won't be happy about it, but I will understand.

Edit: It also just occurred to me that when I said it would be "better if I wasn't around,", I was referring to the discord server and the server itself, not life. I wasn't suicide baiting anyone, just saying I was very very miserable.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Estoytrucha

[Estoytrucha]

[Estoytrucha]

Sorry. I swear this is the last post, but this what where I thought I had left off with Goolies before he stopped responding to my friendly looc messages.

[goolie]

Okay first off. You may not have meant to insinuate that any sexual assault had happened but unfortunately, that is how it was interpreted by the players that saw our LOOC conversation, and the ones that you told. The IR specifically says "sexual assault" and I have had players DMing me using the word "rape" when describing what you accused my character of doing. When this first became an issue and you were looking for individuals to back up your claims you specifically said "Do you remember that round where Barrett told Issksi her suitor was dead and he tried to bully her into sleeping with him?" That's more than sex-pesty as you put it. I am incredibly lucky that there were witnesses to what had happened, otherwise this would of most definitely been a black mark on my name. How would you feel if someone accused you of engaging in sexual roleplay on the server? I don't think you understand how damaging your statements could of been if the people at the time weren't there to defend me. You say that you will willingly leave the server but I could of more than easily been ostracized by your comments if there were not players to back up my side of the story. 

I did accept your apology and I felt bad for you at the time but after I had found out you were telling other people the situation, which should of been kept private in the first place if not for me but for your mental health problems that's when I was genuinely pissed off. I do not disregard that you have problems, but to use it is as an excuse in a situation like this is just silly. It really, really is. Everyone has problems, physically and mentally but that's not a free pass to spread around such a strange, outrageous rumour on a videogame. None of the reasons you have given explain why you would come up with something so absurd, especially on a server where sexually explicit behaviour is so strictly monitored. It's coming off as rather disingenuous and dishonest to try and use the problems that you are facing as an to excuse to your behaviour.

[Estoytrucha]

I told you before you before I knew the IR was up. I was investigating on my own and trying to run damage control before I apologized fully, because one of the few players I told about this said it didn't add up. I didn't know the IR was even going to exist, and I do correct the score when I see it brought up (only has happened twice). Yes, this affected your character's reputation and yes, I am responsible for doubling down in looc, which I regret and do not intend to do again. This was over a months-old memory. I can't control what other people took from it after the fact. But I didn't go around making a conspiracy to get you banned, didn't call you a rapist, and I didn't go around saying that Goolies was a bad person. Just that Ryan, in inviting Isksii to talk about the grief, was propositioning her and then that I misremembered that.

Granted, ghosts might have watched any of these interactions. Interactions I made whilst still incorrect, and not knowing any better. 

If it had been me, I would be furious you had a character say something like that about my character. However, I also wouldn't retroactively use necromancy on an issue I thought resolved and would have just said in DMS "actually I'm still mad. Please leave me alone." after you tried to start being friendly with me again.

If someone bothers you now about this, tell them, and screencap this, that I misunderstood and didn't go to you quick enough to resolve the situation back then. That part was my bad. I screwed up. However, also remember that you forgave me and didn't tell me the issue came back up.

 You can talk to the player who made the IR. Or at least, someone who isn't you can. I have. I cannot control what people took from it and I can and will correct the account with anyone who asks. With those whom I told, which wasn't many ICly, with the exception of characters who long since left, I admitted I did wrong. On the bright side, you can rest assured that I will never attempt to greet you in the game or on Discord again.

Also, the only person I spoke to about my disability in reference to this and how it might have contributed to the misreading of the situation in the first place and they did NOT have permission to speak to you edit: about what I told them in confidence (they didn't ask). I told you I felt bad. It wasn't about me. So I didn't go into it with even most of my closest friends. I know who came to you, I think. I will ask them never to bother you on my behalf again, either.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Estoytrucha

[Estoytrucha]

You're also welcome to make this complaint public if you want to air out the extent of this problem and clear Ryan Barrett's name once and for all. I don't know anything short of that which could tell all the ghosts that might have been watching at any point that I erred and Ryan is innocent.

[Estoytrucha]

Oops.  I also stand corrected. I also told you about the disability thing _after_ you said you'd forgiven me. Not to get me off, but to explain why things probably happened in the first place. You're welcome to show those logs. Man, being put on the spot really makes memory kinda bad. At any rate, you don't have to conceal this on my account. I did what I could since, and the damage is done. When I said I would leave the community before I stayed away for a week in earnest. I have left our shared discord once more. I'm not out to get you here. I don't appreciate the accusation of being a manipulative emotional abuser, however.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Estoytrucha
italicized for emphasis. The other edits were to add more sentences.

[goolie]

This is going to be my last reply to the thread because now we're just starting to go back and forth and it's turning into an argument. The IR that somebody made regarding all of this is not the matter at hand. That is a completely separate issue which was caused by you spreading around that my character had in fact, sexually assaulted or as you put it, "tried to bully her into sleeping with him" another player of the Aurora. You shouldn't of even let it get that far. I had to solve that myself by reaching out to the player that made the complaint and asking them to shut it down. Your "damage control" as you put it did not help at all. If anything it made it worse as more and more players were to starting to catch wind of what happened. 

My character's reputation is also the least of my worries. What worried me at the time was that you could think up such a shocking recollection of events and when questioned on it, seep into a sort of depression to get out of it. As much as you say that you were not referring to suicide when you made comments such as, "I do not want to be here anymore" you were telling people of your mental health struggles in the same conversation or sentence. It isn't unreasonable of anyone who reads such a thing to start to worry and be concerned about your wellbeing. This is why I changed my attitude with you within our DMs. You can see in the screenshots that I accepted your apology, asked to go our separate ways and then started ignoring your messages. The only reason I accepted your apology was that the people were coming to me about your behaviour in their DMs. You spoke of your disabilities, your mental health problems and how much this situation had made you depressed and or suicidal.

At the end of the day this is just a videogame and if it is really making consider not wanting to be around, you should really think about quitting or taking a break. I don't want you to be having these feelings nor was this complaint made out of spite. I made this complaint because after very clearly telling you I wished not to speak to you, you would come up to me in game and consistently badger me in LOOC. If somebody is ignoring your messages, and has asked you to leave them alone? Extending an olive branch is not what you should be doing. I really do not want to be around you OOC or IC. I made this very clear and you chose to ignore my request at parting ways. I have had to pour so much time into righting the rumour that you in fact did start to spread, and ensuring that nobody on the server has even an inkling of a doubt that I participated in such a horrid act that you've perpetuated. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by goolie

[Estoytrucha]

I was drafting a message to her myself as it went down, Goolies. It had started spiralling out of control faster than I could handle because a) I didn't realize it wasn't true until too late, and b) I was too defensive to correct it immediatey. And I felt horrible that I could have imagined something so terrible.  Even now I'm okay with this going public and yes, my damage control took too long. All of these things are true. However, the damage was already mostly done before I even brought it up to you. And, believe it or not, the reason I felt bad was because I wanted to protect you after I'd fucked up. Whether you believe that or not now is up to you. I will give you your space.
 
Is that all you want from me? Or do you want other people to come and air grievances to see if this is a pattern of behavior that needs to be quelled? I have offered to allow this to be public on my side. Yes, I will act injured to some degree if this occurs and I recieve hatemail, but I will not "try and use pity to turn people against you". I won't even be on any official discords for the following few days and will speak only to those players that are my friends in ways that transcend SS13 about the matter. Most of them have more or less moved on from the Aurora, anyway. This should prevent you from being unduly harmed on my account. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Estoytrucha

[Estoytrucha]

Again, though, you did not emphaticize our divorce. Tone does not carry. I noticed you ignoring me, but not initially. Your characters interacted with Tabor and I thought you knew that was also my character.  Thus, the reignoring appeared to come out of nowhere. At any time during that, you could have just told me to leave you alone. You could have asked a friend to ask me to leave you alone on your behalf. One of your friends, clearly, and not mine.

Edit: I also do not remember using such language about "not wanting to be here anymore" in reference to this. I stopped playing for a week partially to prevent this from being something that would effect things. Were they screencaps of entirely separate instances? Were there a lot of players with this information? If this stuff is occurring and I have no memory of it, that is concerning for similar reasons the start of this was. I would like know if that exists. Feel free to remove usernames, but I would like to see it.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Estoytrucha

[Estoytrucha]

Also I didn't know Alberyk's cease and desist meant I couldn't talk about the thing in my own DMs with people I thought were friends. I've even looked over my DM history during that time. I was only honest about how it felt with a couple of people and used not such colorful language, as far as I can tell. Also spoke in the past tense, mostly. If you have DMs otherwise, I need to know about them. Alberyk and Garn need to know about them. I don't actually believe they exist in plural, but I've done things and forgotten about them before. I also don't know if they actually say the things you are insinuating. You are angry, and I get that. If they do, though, I need to know this is who I am to fix it.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Estoytrucha

[Skull132]

Matter of protocol: complaint was originally lodged as confidential but was made public after both parties agreed to it.

[Alberyk]

To explain my involvement in this: I told Estoytrucha to stop spreading the rumor that Ryan somehow tried to sleep with someone, since they could not really point at all when this happened, and no one else involved in this agreeded to. Now, if they are spreading this somehow outside of character as a fact/somethign that happened, I think this is also questionable and might feel like bad faith, because this did not happen at all from what I could gather.

[Estoytrucha]

4 hours ago, Alberyk said:

To explain my involvement in this: I told Estoytrucha to stop spreading the rumor that Ryan somehow tried to sleep with someone, since they could not really point at all when this happened, and no one else involved in this agreeded to. Now, if they are spreading this somehow outside of character as a fact/somethign that happened, I think this is also questionable and might feel like bad faith, because this did not happen at all from what I could gather.

I feel safe in saying that I talked to my friends about feeling bad about it and tried to figure out how I messed up so badly a little on the side, but I certainly didn’t keep at the rumor after disproved by all other parties. When brought up again at any pound, it was in an ooc sense with the admission I fucked up. If there is evidence to the contrary I welcome it.

[Estoytrucha]

If we can date all correspondence you should be able to see I wasn’t spreading it after you spoke to me, Alberyk. If I am somehow wrong about this I deserve the punishment.

[Garnascus]

Ok so, before i go forward here i need to get a timeline of events here. I need either @goolie or @Estoytrucha to correct me if i am wrong here. 

1. Sometime in early january Estoytruchas character approaches goolies character and lambasts him for attempting to coerce another character into his bedroom. Referenced by this screenshot 

2. Estoytrucha shares this story with a number of players resulting in an IR against goolies that is only stopped once goolies is able to explain himself with other players backing him up who where present IC at the time. Goolies claims he did not estoytrucha was spreading this around at the time

3. Estoytrucha is noted by @Alberyk on the 10th of january 2021. 

 

4. Eight days later Estoytrucha comes to goolie's DMs and apologizes over the whole ordeal and admits they where wrong to accuse goolies of this. 

Everything up until this point i think i understand. Its everything that comes after everything i am not super sold on such as 

1. Estoytrucha attempting to be "emotionally manipulative" with regards to friends of goolies or people that both estoytrucha and goolies knew?

2. Estoytrucha continued spinning yarns about goolies or did not attempt to retract the story after they had told it to others

3. Estoytrucha would not leave goolies alone, approaching them IC with "hi goolies :)" and things like that. Its hard for me to rule on this without logs. 

At the moment i think i need some things cleared up for me. Maybe its in this thread and im just missing it? Feel free to banish my ignorance. 

[Estoytrucha]

I did try to initiate contact a few times in character/looc and dmed him twice over a period of a month and a half.

[Estoytrucha]

Also, this happened:
Edit: Note, I did not ask anyone to do this to Goolies. I would not have asked anyone to do this to Goolies.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Estoytrucha