AI whitelist feedback thread

[SatinsPristOTD]

If our main argument against AI Traitor is "People will abuse it" then the AI Whitelist is not doing it's job. That argument can also be used for Command whitelists.

Anyone carrying a whitelist should be fully aware of what it means to abuse power and make a round terrible for players. Whitelist holders are held to higher standards. If the problem is abuse, remove the abuser.

[Pratepresidenten]

1 hour ago, Capesh said:

As always, I’ll also take this time to ask for a whitelist channel on the Discord (or a dedicated forum space) so we AI whitelistees can converse with each other and relevant staff on things to improve/abilities to add and change/QoL etc etc.

The department discord has a section for AI/borgs, and it should be sufficient for all your AI related needs. So please do stop by and liven up the area! (～￣▽￣)～

[WickedCybs]

8 hours ago, SatinsPristOTD said:

If our main argument against AI Traitor is "People will abuse it" then the AI Whitelist is not doing it's job. That argument can also be used for Command whitelists.

Anyone carrying a whitelist should be fully aware of what it means to abuse power and make a round terrible for players. Whitelist holders are held to higher standards. If the problem is abuse, remove the abuser.

Command whitelistees don't really get the opportunity to go traitor for good reason on the majority of their roles, consular and liaison being the exception. It's not really a similar situation. Back when roles like RD did have the chance, well. We've seen what happened and why that was removed. It was very bad for a round and that was nobody's fault in particular. It's just a consequence of giving a very advantaged role further power and the authorization to use it.

I don't believe anyone is particularly worried about AI players abusing traitor status anyway. Being a traitor is hard and the natural result is always going to be some weird blend of stealth and randomly shocking people unless the AI is particularly ambitious and is willing to give the crew some hook. As it stands, an AI has more access and influence than even the captain, and high protections. If it was not so intertwined with nearly every crew system it would be more balanced, at the moment it's a malf-lite.

Edited April 6, 2021 by WickedCybs

[Desven]

I may be biased because Space Odyssey is one of my favorite movies, but I really like the idea behind traitor/malf AI. And while I do agree that the whitelist helps, particularly to ensure higher AI roleplay, it's a bit sad to see nobody plays it anymore, and if the AI is ever traitor they are really mild. Yes, it's true antag AI can easily be murderboney, but if people are whitelisted we have better expectations of them. In fact, I would like to say antag AIs that don't hold back and induce some serious paranoia, at least enough as for the crew to come together and find their way out of the dangers. I know it's possible because I've seen it happen before.

[Chada1]

44 minutes ago, Desven said:

I may be biased because Space Odyssey is one of my favorite movies, but I really like the idea behind traitor/malf AI. And while I do agree that the whitelist helps, particularly to ensure higher AI roleplay, it's a bit sad to see nobody plays it anymore, and if the AI is ever traitor they are really mild. Yes, it's true antag AI can easily be murderboney, but if people are whitelisted we have better expectations of them. In fact, I would like to say antag AIs that don't hold back and induce some serious paranoia, at least enough as for the crew to come together and find their way out of the dangers. I know it's possible because I've seen it happen before.

Right at the moment, I'm not sure removing traitor AI is on the table so much as improving AI laws for the second, they might be a subject people jump to after my PR is merged however, what do you think about the law changes?

Also, keep me and pwate/itzal informed on how the new laws work in practice when they're merged, they can still be tweaked.

[Chada1]

Alright, as of now, the new laws are in. Note, we haven't swapped to the SCC yet, and the personnels were all changed into entities. That's p. Much it. 3 'to the best of your ability' + a law 3 rewrite to give Borgs a bit more leeway to help in a non aggresive way. Keep this thread informed if you notice a positive/negative difference and how.

[NerdyVampire]

I've played some rounds as BUDDY in this new system, gotten traitor a few times as well. I am happy to have instant bolting back, it just feels normal for an AI to do.

I was surprised the first time I got traitor, cause I hadn't noted that it was back on the table, and it did take some getting used to not having malf-powers go along with it. But honestly, I like it. I like that it isn't too much, that it isn't too little, and that it requires some extra thought to make a gimmick. The only thing I do miss from Malf tools is the ability to fake an announcement, because it gives some more width in what would make sense as a traitor AI to do.

Another thing I would consider adding are some more lawsets that we could load in case we didn't have inspiration for a round. I mean, we have the room for it in our law-manager, and it's an easy way to a gimmick.

I think whitelisting the AI was a great idea and so far it has been implemented to my satisfaction.