Staff Complaint: ShesTrying

[alt4s]

BYOND Key: Ranbee
Staff BYOND Key: ShesTrying
Game ID: cfP-dyv0
Reason for complaint: So I was playing changeling, absorbed a guy after failing to absorb another guy, and was warned by ShesTrying for failure to RP as an antagonist. While I understand that I may have done a mistake even after attempting to roleplay as much as possible, I was not given a proper explanation of what I had exactly done wrong. I tried to ask for an example or an elaboration but all I received are the copy pasted rules I've read before. I asked for an example because I wanted to know how to react, even though I tried to roleplay as a predator I was still given a warning. I did not receive any useful information and was completely ignored.
Evidence/logs/etc: (Bottom to top) (Edit: nvm i dont know how the image system works)

Additional remarks: -

Edited January 5, 2022 by alt4s

[ShesTrying]

I’ll dig up the logs for this tonight and include the full tickets, without edits.

You killed two people with little to no roleplay. This is against the rules. I do not have the responsibility to tell you how to act in every situation. I am a different person than you and I do not expect you to act exactly how I would act in any given scenario. I do however expect you to follow the rules and guidelines set out for antagonists. You then proceeded to become condescending towards me in the tickets, so I ended the conversation. 

[Garnascus]

What exactly transpired during @ranbee killing two people? Also, ranbee are you contesting that you did provide enough RP to your victims and thus the warning is unjust or are you saying that the warning is just but are contesting olivia's explanation to you? Either way is fine i just need to know before i can really evaluate things here. 

[DekserBecauseILostMyAccoun]

Hi I witnessed 1 one of those killings, in fact was the one who died, specifically the Captain. I don't have any logs on me but I imagine She's will reply with them soon, a brief summary that's more readable than screenshots:

I was strolling around as Captains do, checking with departments, seeing how they were faring when over main comms I hear Felix Fleeter yelling, "Captain! SECURITY IS DETAINING ME! HELP!" So I check with security over their channel about any warrants or anyone being detained, no reply, hear Medical say the location of Felix over their comms and walk casually over there to yell at the officer not announcing when they detain someone because I was near there anyway. Walk through the door, a First Responder follows me. The SECOND I see them, they pounce from a body toward me and stunbaton me on harm intent about 10 times, I hit the floor and they drag me into maintenance, by then Security has arrived and begins to shoot at the antagonist who now drags me into an airlock, stands in the exterior door so Sec literally cannot do a thing when they vent us both. I die in about 60 seconds of seeing them, don't even get a "Hi." They then ran out into the asteroid after draining me and just sat behind a corner for 15 minutes writing this complaint.

I'm totally fine with what happened, I try not to hold OOC grudges and dying with less roleplay is 50% of command but this is a clear breaking of the rules and She'strying did literally nothing wrong.

Edited January 5, 2022 by DekserBecauseILostMyAccoun

[alt4s]

38 minutes ago, Garnascus said:

What exactly transpired during @ranbee killing two people? Also, ranbee are you contesting that you did provide enough RP to your victims and thus the warning is unjust or are you saying that the warning is just but are contesting olivia's explanation to you? Either way is fine i just need to know before i can really evaluate things here. 

I mean as I said I completely understand if I acted wrong or didnt act enough, but all I needed was an example of how the situation was supposed to play out. An explanation on what I had exactly done wrong. I tried to provide as much RP being a changeling as I could have. I honestly tried my best, read the whole changeling wiki and read the whole thing on the rules as an antag. I didn't find anything on how changelings are supposed to act, that's why I asked for an example on how to act in the future.

[MattAtlas]

Full ticket logs:

Spoiler

[23:48:46.185] ADMIN: PM: ShesTrying/(X)->Ranbee/(Nathan Wright): Hey, got a sec?
[23:48:53.934] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): maybe
[23:49:06.413] ADMIN: PM: ShesTrying/(X)->Ranbee/(Nathan Wright): What happened with the captain and Fleeter?
[23:49:23.572] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): uh i tried to absorb a guy then the captain came in and i absorbed the captain
[23:49:33.240] ADMIN: PM: ShesTrying/(X)->Ranbee/(Nathan Wright): Did you roleplay with them?
[23:49:54.923] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): i did with the first guy
[23:50:03.231] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): then i took the captain
[23:50:04.411] ADMIN: PM: ShesTrying/(X)->Ranbee/(Nathan Wright): And the captain?
[23:50:13.795] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): as far as was possible
[23:50:21.080] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): it was a heated situation

[23:51:06.479] ADMIN: PM: ShesTrying/(X)->Ranbee/(Nathan Wright): ok. So when  you're doing things like that you need to provide a bit of rp. What did you do with Fleeteer?
[23:51:43.673] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): i entered his room. accused him of a crime. Handcuffed him and did alien noises
[23:51:53.704] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): like a predator seeking prey or sum shit idk
[23:52:17.145] ADMIN: PM: ShesTrying/(X)->Ranbee/(Nathan Wright): So for murdering people you need to provide a little more than that. For that and the captain I'm going to be issuing you a warning.
[23:52:27.281] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): well what was I supposed to do ok
[23:52:37.088] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): provide like an example or something at least
[23:52:51.899] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): wiki doesnt say anything about that
[23:53:36.148] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): you gonna elaborate or is this bias
[23:53:40.066] ADMIN: PM: ShesTrying/(X)->Ranbee/(Nathan Wright): Conflict is acceptable, even if you are not an antag, but it needs to be believable, and meet roleplay standards. The average Joe will not simply decide to blow up their workplace one day. Keep in mind, the more drastic the action, the more motivated your character has to be to commit to it, and the consequences it brings. Unless you’re an antagonist, this motivation has to be developed through roleplay on the server: backstory cannot legitimize drastic things, such as trying to assault security staff because of a bad childhood, for example. It is also very much encouraged that you roleplay out the consequences to such conflict where possible.
[23:53:59.249] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): thats not an example thats a copy pasted thing
[23:54:01.975] ADMIN: PM: ShesTrying/(X)->Ranbee/(Nathan Wright): You cannot just kill two people with no roleplay.
[23:54:13.972] ADMIN: PM: ShesTrying/(X)->Ranbee/(Nathan Wright): The primary goal of antangonists is to DRIVE A STORY AND TO GENERATE INTERACTION. Be creative when coming up with objectives, and try to do things which will be fun for others, not only yourself. Do not resort to the bare minimums of generating a story through mechanical means, either. This means: no unmotivated/not roleplayed out mass murders, etcetera. See the rules below for further clarification.
[23:54:21.938] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): well go on then provide an example of how the situation was supposed to be player out
[23:54:56.226] ADMIN: PM: ShesTrying/(X)->Ranbee/(Nathan Wright): I am not going to do that. Please read the rules and do not enable antagonist if you are unable to drive a story instead of mass murder.
[23:54:59.315] ADMIN: PM: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright)->ShesTrying/(X): example: an instance (such as a problem to be solved) serving to illustrate a rule or precept or to act as an exercise in the application of a rule
[23:55:41.009] ADMIN: HELP: Ranbee/(Nathan Wright): We werent done yet "ShesTrying" - heard by 4 non-AFK admins.
[23:55:54.203] ADMIN: PM: ShesTrying/(X)->Ranbee/(Nathan Wright): If you disagree with the ruling you are free to make a staff complaint.

 

[ShesTrying]

You can see the full ticket logs above. I don’t keep tickets open when players start to act passive aggressive towards me. I’m happy to have a dialogue about what-ifs in Discord with someone being pleasant, but tickets aren’t the place for that, nor do I have any interest in having a conversation with someone already speaking down to me when a ticket has already been dealt with.  
 

I cannot tell you what to do in every situation you encounter. It is not my responsibility to roleplay for you. Killing two people with no interaction is against the rules and you were warned for it.

[alt4s]

34 minutes ago, ShesTrying said:

You can see the full ticket logs above. I don’t keep tickets open when players start to act passive aggressive towards me. I’m happy to have a dialogue about what-ifs in Discord with someone being pleasant, but tickets aren’t the place for that, nor do I have any interest in having a conversation with someone already speaking down to me when a ticket has already been dealt with.  
 

I cannot tell you what to do in every situation you encounter. It is not my responsibility to roleplay for you. Killing two people with no interaction is against the rules and you were warned for it.

I'm not saying you should "roleplay for me", I'm saying you could've made an effort to help me as a staff member. All I needed was an example, I don't think it would be that hard to provide one, yet all you did was close the ticket.

[Faris]

@Garnascusis busy so I'll be taking over this. Expect it to be resolved by the weekend hopefully. 

[Faris]

So looking over this, I feel like @ShesTryingshould have at least tried to provide one example to better explain the issue or to articulate it with you. That is not to say we’re required to go into multiple novel length examples, but in this case an example or two to better explain the issue and how to avoid it would’ve been appropriate.

 

I didn’t really see any passive aggressiveness on the side of @alt4s but rather they seemed frustrated, which I can understand. Being given copies of entries of our rules while not understanding what was wrong and how I could’ve done better would be frustrating. 

 

To summarize. An example would’ve been within the scope of the ticket and appropriate here. It would’ve been brief and if it dragged on, could’ve been stopped.