limette Posted February 7, 2022 Posted February 7, 2022 Right now, bughunt is the only way to get borers in secret, and I feel like this is to its disadvantage; if you see a borer, you know there are mercs coming 100% of the time. This usually leads to at least some meta, as well as stale repetitive gimmicks in this gamemode. On the other hand, the lack of solo-borer means its entirely impossible to have an 'outbreak' handled by the crew alone - there will always be mercs coming to harm or help the borers - which I feel is a lost opportunity for command to do very !!!FUN!!! things on their own. I'm personally in favor of enabling borer in secret because I think if people have borer enabled enough to get it, clearly there's interest . But I would prefer bughunt be disabled if borer not enabled. AFAIK it's the only multiple-types-of-antag gamemodes that does not have a solo version.
Carver Posted February 7, 2022 Posted February 7, 2022 Seems like a sound suggestion. As much as I personally hate borers due to their base mechanics, having the addition of Nukies alongside them nearly every showing makes for a rather stale and often miserable experience.
WickedCybs Posted February 7, 2022 Posted February 7, 2022 I thought bughunt could already happen by itself. I think it's worth being its own game mode then if it isn't.
MattAtlas Posted February 9, 2022 Posted February 9, 2022 I would rather remove bughunt from secret than enable secret borer. I don't think borer has enough content to stand on its own honestly. And I've already seen a lot of negative complaints about how the gamemode makes people uncomfortable/not want to play, so I'd rather rip the bandaid off, personally.
KingOfThePing Posted February 9, 2022 Posted February 9, 2022 What are the concerns about the gamemode? I haven't heard any so I am curious what it is that makes people uncomfortable.
Gem Posted February 9, 2022 Posted February 9, 2022 (edited) On 09/02/2022 at 12:15, MattAtlas said: I would rather remove bughunt from secret than enable secret borer. I don't think borer has enough content to stand on its own honestly. And I've already seen a lot of negative complaints about how the gamemode makes people uncomfortable/not want to play, so I'd rather rip the bandaid off, personally. i concur. in my opinion, borer doesn't really have enough content to be able to sustain a round on its own. the end result is either that the borer(s) fail to infect anyone and it becomes extended, or the borer(s) infect everyone and it also becomes extended, since borers and their hosts aren't supposed to antagonize other borers and their hosts, as far as i am aware. On 09/02/2022 at 16:00, KingOfThePing said: What are the concerns about the gamemode? I haven't heard any so I am curious what it is that makes people uncomfortable. probably stuff like body invasion, parasites, and/or having someone else directly controlling/sharing your character. Edited February 25, 2022 by Gem
limette Posted December 5, 2022 Author Posted December 5, 2022 Reviving this thread because I stand by this suggestion - disable one or enable the other. On 09/02/2022 at 10:00, KingOfThePing said: What are the concerns about the gamemode? I haven't heard any so I am curious what it is that makes people uncomfortable. The general complaints are about total loss of agency for the character, in terms of it being uncomfortable. Many players don't like a brain parasite literally crawling in their ear then making their characters do and say things, just conceptually. Personally, I complain that Bughunt lends itself to often only one gimmick - there is an infestation, and the mercenaries are Zeng-Hu or something and here to rectify it. I also don't like how it depends on ghostspawns, because Revenant seems to have been disliked in part for the same reason. Honestly though, I wouldn't mind it as much if borer itself was possible - I just find bughunt very bland, and when the sight of a borer means I know a Zeng-Hu team is coming after it, I tire of borers as well. Hence my original post focusing on how repetitive of a gamemode it tends to be.
Sparky_hotdog Posted December 5, 2022 Posted December 5, 2022 I personally have very little love for borer. It's a cool concept, but not something which tends to work well in practice. I remember loving it the first time I played bughunt, thinking that the idea of two people being the same antagonist was the epitome of RP game modes, but the initial wow factor wears off fast, and you're left with an often repetitive mode which lacks the creativity of most other brilliant antags while lacking the decisiveness that makes most other constricting modes decent. And limette's right - Having any antag which only appears inside of a single hybrid mode is bad: It just makes bughunt raider+ (or raider- due to the lack of options for gimmicks). I will add, in defence of bughunt, we had a round... a few weeks ago now I think, which had a very unique take, at least for my experience, where the raiders worked with the borers as members of a psuedo-cult. It was pretty fun, avoiding most of the uncomfy crew-gets-brain-leached stuff for those who dislike such (Me!). However, it more serves to highlight how poorly the mode performs where a single unique gimmick is somehow a noteworthy memory. (It also renewed my belief that Cult cult should be able to go more Lovecraftian, but that's for another time and place). So personally, I'd remove bughunt. I generally like to stick with the improve-not-remove mantra, but borer as an antagonist feels fundamentally lacking in oomf.
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