Cult Redesigns and Revamp?

[goolie]

I used to hate Cult but when someone applies a really, really good gimmick it can be one of the best rounds! But Nar'sie gimmicks that people are forced to work with mechanically every round even if they decide to go a different path story wise can get boring. There's SO MUCH lore relating to all that revolves around illegal Religions, Cults, sacrificial rituals and it's just not implemented into Cult. What I'm suggesting is that we could add an option at the start of Cult to aesthetically change what it looks like and even change some abilities around if the interest is high enough.

I have a few spriters that are on board and I've collected some ideas already as to what Cults we could implement. If you're interested or have any ideas? Please post them in the comments! At the moment I think we're only going to be working on sprites for the endgame Gods / the replacement for the runes. I only have one coder that's interested in messing around with the code so far but post your suggestions!

Geometer of Blood - Literally the normal Nar'sie experience. It's not a good idea to completely remove this because it's loved so much and there's also bits and bobs of Nar'sie related story in the lore.
Lii'dra Brood - Black k'ois are the bane of admins existences when an antagonist asks for them because they cause so much havoc and can become overwhelming. I think It'd be easy to stick this into Cult without the mechanics.
Raskariim - After the arcs that Raskara worshippers have been in this was THE reason I started to think that Cult lacked substance and this would be perfect for Cult if not maybe even more enjoyed than Nar'sie! Instead of summoning and having to sprite a new demi-god the endgame could be instead bringing the moon itself to the station.
Glorsh and his Second Coming - A simple objective where the Cultists must summon Glorsh to win whereas the crew (probably panicking Skrell) have to stop it. Books may get replaced by sort of pieces of Glorsh, from which they can literally spawn things.
Si'akh Faith - The crazy Sinta Cult / religion that's literally all about suffering and fire! I know that there's already a fire Cult on other servers where they use lava land tiles so we could even base it off of that if people liked.
Titan's Chosen - There was an event last year where a ship of biomass containing Dionae crashed onto the station and it alleged to this HUGE mass of Diona the size of a planet that was going to come to the station, it got cancelled but I thought it sounded really fun. In the lore there are literally planet-sized Dionae that can hold billions of nymphs, with so much intelligence they can become almost Gods. The books may be Nymphs from the Titan itself, and the final summon is just to create a large enough bait to draw the Titan's attention so that it may consume the ship.
Suur'ka and Kir'gul - These are the Religions in the Jargon Federation that are basically illegal. They go against what the Federation stand for and the Suur’ka despise Synthetics. That's what I think you could base a Cult around, a modified version of these Religions where the end goal is to blow up some sort of EMP that you have to build or anything related to Synthetics. The Kir'gul hate the wake and that one could make use of the already coded psionics to get an objective of destroying the Srom. 

[Happy_Fox]

Lore-friendly cult is a great idea. Gives characters a much greater chance to engage with the cult beyond just thinking of them as "Weird roleplayers in robes" before they start attacking people with swords. Think properly done this has great potential. 

[Captain Gecko]

There's not much else to say other than the fact that I love Cult and it could seriously use an overhaul. I'm definitely contributing to this if this requires help to be made, may it be in writing or spriting... Because it HAS to be made.

[DatSamTho]

While I agree that cults desperately needs a rework, I do not think that species specific religions are the way to go with this. For a lot of characters it simply. . . wouldn't make sense? Why would a Skrell worship Raskara? Or a Unathi the Lii'dra? I feel like most of these would end up being extremely underused. I think that more "generic" sets of abilities/objectives/beliefs would fit better, so the players could pick and choose what fits best.

[Myazaki]

11 hours ago, goolie said:

I used to hate Cult but when someone applies a really, really good gimmick it can be one of the best rounds!

I feel like you could say that exact sentence about every antagonist mode. A rework would be great, but I don't think you can beat lazy gimmicks / lazy converts who go and ruin the gimmick, with a rework. 

[goolie]

@tomkiel I think we can trust people with whitelists to understand not to stick their Tajara into a Skrell related Cult but if they do who cares? I think as long as they understand the lore, the new proposed changes would be there to drive a story. There have been umpteen gimmicks where a myriad of species that don't actually fit into the setting get involved. Cult is non-canon! The only problem I can see that if we do want to include Cult lore, new mechanics need to be stuck in because then it wouldn't make any sense. We can't have the Raskara work with blood, or the Lii'dra just put runes down. 

@Myazaki That's true and I agree with you but basically every other round excluding one's that aren't often picked (like borer, malfunction, technomancer) have tenfold the freedom that Cult does. Cult is about blood runes and ONLY about blood runes. Whereas other antag roles let you spawn in certain items that fit in with a theme that you want to play out, Cult is JUST blood. It would open the possibility of more gimmicks and less lazy ones. You can only squeeze so much content out of scary hooded robed blood worshippers.

[Hunt]

I support any/all of these ideas, changes to the usual round types that all servers share can only benefit our 'uniqueness'

+2

[Captain Gecko]

On 01/05/2022 at 16:22, tomkiel said:

While I agree that cults desperately needs a rework, I do not think that species specific religions are the way to go with this. For a lot of characters it simply. . . wouldn't make sense? Why would a Skrell worship Raskara? Or a Unathi the Lii'dra? I feel like most of these would end up being extremely underused. I think that more "generic" sets of abilities/objectives/beliefs would fit better, so the players could pick and choose what fits best.

Alright how about these ones instead:

 

Cult of the Geometer is the one we have, of course, but I'm just putting it here for comparison's sake. Obviously, the Gimmick is blood and we summon the big bad Nar-sie herself (himself? Itself? I don't know, I always remember refering and seeing other refer to Nar-sie as a she). Thanks to their magic tome, they can do pretty much anything, from bringing equipment to converting people, communicating, fortifying positions, etc. The vast range of runes that can be used means that the Geometer's cult can actually choose from a wide range of strategies. In our context of multiple cult being present, it would be perhaps the "Good at everything - Great at nothing" type of Cult.

Cult of the Supermatter with the totally self-explanatory gimmick of radiations and such. Cultists here would be equipped with blessed/cursed supermatter shards or something akin to these in place of tomes. Instead of relying on direct opposition against the crew, they'd rely on various radiation-emitting items and constructs to weaken the crew and diverts its attention (from literally weakening them to causing harm, hallucination, partial blindness, etc.) until they can manage to summon their own Supermatter Demon. This means that this cult would probably be the closest thing we'd get to a stealth cult, despite them actively causing trouble to the crew meaning that everyone would still know that something is going on and start searching. On an extra note, that could be the basis for some funny antag lore about supermatter shards and such being pieces of a literal God.

Cult of the Dark Moon which is perhaps my favorite context, and not just because I love Lovecraftian horror and Dead Space... Their gimmick is that they are the most Lovecraft-ish cult, though... But not just that. A planet sized object spawns on the space map, along with everything else generally generated... This planet-sized object is an Eldritch God-like horror that the local cultist venerate. Their goal is either to steer the ship toward it, or draw it to the ship with a large-enough "bait" they can summon in the end. The closer the ship gets to the planet, the more anomalous things get, with hallucinations, messages like "You feel like you shouldn't be here" and other twisted things happening all around, preventing the normal crew from actually giving the Cult a win without knowing it by reaching the planet. Additionally the cult itself relies on a lot of madness-inducing powers to weaken the crew. Gameplay-wise, this strikes me as a much more aggressive version of the Supermatter Cult, only, relying on "debuffing" the crew rather than equipping themselves with better cultist gear like the Geometer Cult does.

Cult of the Singularity, a more open version of the Glorsh cult. The overall idea is to end up creating a being that achieved Singularity. Gimmick wise, it's the more science-based Cult although, as we'll see quickly, it doesn't prevent some... Anomalous events from happening. The idea would be to have one member be chosen to become the Singularity, and thus, will basically become the "Chosen One" of the Cult. This Chosen One gets basically plugged with God knows how many cybernetics horrors, rendering them extremely slow and vulnerable, however, they also act like a sort of second AI... Far weaker than an actual AI at first, mostly just being a floating camera, but slowly gaining power as the rest of the Cultist bring gear to empower them, allowing them to cast supernatural events against the crew. These cultists would have a sort of list of things to bring (Phoron, engines, scientific tools, computers, etc. Ideally, they'd have to take from most if not all departments), then, once it's done, undergo a final "ritual" to sacrifice themselves and merge their minds with the Chosen, effectively turning them into a proper Singularity, winning the round. This is a more "defensive" kind of cult, as cultists have to put their chosen one somewhere safe, and then, keep them in one piece until they can achieve their goal. Fortifications, traps, and the crew being on the offensive (for once) is to be expected.

Pestilence Cult aka "I love you papa Nurgle" aka "Medical's worst nightmare" aka "I may have super-aids but I can tank bullets". More seriously, the Gimmick is obviously diseases. Now, what's the difference with radiations from the Supermatter Cult, then? Well, radiations are a sort of passive thing... Plant a magic rock, or bring an item somewhere, and let the radiations spread. In here, however, the diseases have to be actively spread. This means that this would be the most aggressive cult. Pestilence Cultists rely on actual combat to generally spread their diseases, melee combat generally. Obviously, Melee fighters generally get annihilated by security's big guns, so they must rely on various diseases to reinforce themselves, causing some debuffs on one end, while making them tankier on the other. But why spreading disease in the first place? With each infected (but living) member of the crew onboard, the cult grows stronger, and can buff themselves with more diseases. This plague that they spread to the crew wouldn't be lethal, but it would severely limit their ability to pose a threat to the cultists, and would need medical treatment to be cured, keeping constant pressure on the medical department and forcing the cultists to not go ham and absolutely kill everything they see (a dead player is not an infected player, there's nothing to gain from a corpse.) The moment there are enough plagued players onboard, the Cultists can start their final ritual to summon Nurgle The Plague God or something.

 

Obviously all of this is concept, placeholder names, and merely concepts as far as mechanics goes.

[DatSamTho]

1 hour ago, Captain Gecko said:

Alright how about these ones instead:

 

Cult of the Geometer is the one we have, of course, but I'm just putting it here for comparison's sake. Obviously, the Gimmick is blood and we summon the big bad Nar-sie herself (himself? Itself? I don't know, I always remember refering and seeing other refer to Nar-sie as a she). Thanks to their magic tome, they can do pretty much anything, from bringing equipment to converting people, communicating, fortifying positions, etc. The vast range of runes that can be used means that the Geometer's cult can actually choose from a wide range of strategies. In our context of multiple cult being present, it would be perhaps the "Good at everything - Great at nothing" type of Cult.

Cult of the Supermatter with the totally self-explanatory gimmick of radiations and such. Cultists here would be equipped with blessed/cursed supermatter shards or something akin to these in place of tomes. Instead of relying on direct opposition against the crew, they'd rely on various radiation-emitting items and constructs to weaken the crew and diverts its attention (from literally weakening them to causing harm, hallucination, partial blindness, etc.) until they can manage to summon their own Supermatter Demon. This means that this cult would probably be the closest thing we'd get to a stealth cult, despite them actively causing trouble to the crew meaning that everyone would still know that something is going on and start searching. On an extra note, that could be the basis for some funny antag lore about supermatter shards and such being pieces of a literal God.

Cult of the Dark Moon which is perhaps my favorite context, and not just because I love Lovecraftian horror and Dead Space... Their gimmick is that they are the most Lovecraft-ish cult, though... But not just that. A planet sized object spawns on the space map, along with everything else generally generated... This planet-sized object is an Eldritch God-like horror that the local cultist venerate. Their goal is either to steer the ship toward it, or draw it to the ship with a large-enough "bait" they can summon in the end. The closer the ship gets to the planet, the more anomalous things get, with hallucinations, messages like "You feel like you shouldn't be here" and other twisted things happening all around, preventing the normal crew from actually giving the Cult a win without knowing it by reaching the planet. Additionally the cult itself relies on a lot of madness-inducing powers to weaken the crew. Gameplay-wise, this strikes me as a much more aggressive version of the Supermatter Cult, only, relying on "debuffing" the crew rather than equipping themselves with better cultist gear like the Geometer Cult does.

Cult of the Singularity, a more open version of the Glorsh cult. The overall idea is to end up creating a being that achieved Singularity. Gimmick wise, it's the more science-based Cult although, as we'll see quickly, it doesn't prevent some... Anomalous events from happening. The idea would be to have one member be chosen to become the Singularity, and thus, will basically become the "Chosen One" of the Cult. This Chosen One gets basically plugged with God knows how many cybernetics horrors, rendering them extremely slow and vulnerable, however, they also act like a sort of second AI... Far weaker than an actual AI at first, mostly just being a floating camera, but slowly gaining power as the rest of the Cultist bring gear to empower them, allowing them to cast supernatural events against the crew. These cultists would have a sort of list of things to bring (Phoron, engines, scientific tools, computers, etc. Ideally, they'd have to take from most if not all departments), then, once it's done, undergo a final "ritual" to sacrifice themselves and merge their minds with the Chosen, effectively turning them into a proper Singularity, winning the round. This is a more "defensive" kind of cult, as cultists have to put their chosen one somewhere safe, and then, keep them in one piece until they can achieve their goal. Fortifications, traps, and the crew being on the offensive (for once) is to be expected.

Pestilence Cult aka "I love you papa Nurgle" aka "Medical's worst nightmare" aka "I may have super-aids but I can tank bullets". More seriously, the Gimmick is obviously diseases. Now, what's the difference with radiations from the Supermatter Cult, then? Well, radiations are a sort of passive thing... Plant a magic rock, or bring an item somewhere, and let the radiations spread. In here, however, the diseases have to be actively spread. This means that this would be the most aggressive cult. Pestilence Cultists rely on actual combat to generally spread their diseases, melee combat generally. Obviously, Melee fighters generally get annihilated by security's big guns, so they must rely on various diseases to reinforce themselves, causing some debuffs on one end, while making them tankier on the other. But why spreading disease in the first place? With each infected (but living) member of the crew onboard, the cult grows stronger, and can buff themselves with more diseases. This plague that they spread to the crew wouldn't be lethal, but it would severely limit their ability to pose a threat to the cultists, and would need medical treatment to be cured, keeping constant pressure on the medical department and forcing the cultists to not go ham and absolutely kill everything they see (a dead player is not an infected player, there's nothing to gain from a corpse.) The moment there are enough plagued players onboard, the Cultists can start their final ritual to summon Nurgle The Plague God or something.

 

Obviously all of this is concept, placeholder names, and merely concepts as far as mechanics goes.

I honestly love all of these so much. I could get behind something like this. +1 to this in this form

[goolie]

LOL me and @Captain Gecko were talking in messages about all of it and I think they’ve summed it up perfectly. Instead of having specific lore related cult types, a broader class system like what he’s suggested and also other servers use would be a better option. It lets you craft more open ended storylines and also mess around with the different mechanics too. A lot of the stuff can already be ported over from other servers as well if we want to go that route. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by goolie

[NerdyVampire]

I prefer Gecko's generic to the lore specific, mostly because it can be tailored to the lore IC if any member of the cult has the proper knowledge for such. I feel like any of these would be an awesome addition.

[Colfer]

I feel like almost any change to the way cult works could be an improvement, but this in particular I would be really excited to see. I strongly prefer the generic and maluable idea Gecko presented, rather than the strict lore specific one. Overall this looks like a good improvement to cult in general.