Remove all-access-communications from certain off-station antags OR make them cost TC

[Spider]

Mercs and raiders having full access to station communications from the get-go seems entirely overpowered. It makes sense for antags like technomancers and ninjas to have this ability because it balances the fact that they are they are one/two people against the entire ship. However for mercs/raiders, a full team of four/five people, having the ability to know how station command and security coordinates often makes for a one-sided and unfair conflict when paired with their superior arsenal and gear (sans raiders). I feel like removing this ability might encourage more robust planning and communication between the antags and the crew as well as more varied conflicts. It's easy for antags to completely ignore communicating with the crew as they can already hear everything they are planning with godlike omniscience with security finding themselves 'pretending' that they don't know that their comms are compromised, making for a frustrating round.

I don't like the gamey TDM way these rounds tend to devolve, and the whole idea of 'winning' is only reinforced when crew are up against a threat that seemingly knows everything. I am in favor of completely removing this feature, though I understand the reception that it may have. Because of that I also propose making it cost TC, like how on-station antags like traitors are required to purchase this ability through the use of telecrystals. This sees them weighing that ability for full-communication for other quality items.

I understand that there is a certain bias in this suggestion coming from a sec-main, and I would like to hear your thoughts, additions, or refutations to this suggestion. I'm not really that good at voicing what I think so it'd really help if someone would like to add their own points or experiences. Thank you

[Suno]

Bad idea.

Having all comms compromised makes people HAVE to speak in person, And it allows mercs to do some fun counterplay against security.

[ClemTheDuck]

i agree with a change like this, mercs and nearly all offstation antags have insane information gathering abilities, with NVGs and thermals being readily available to a 4 man merc team, them having comms just essentially makes every merc round not fun to organise against. It is also not fun to pretend that you dont know they have comms access every time and watch as everyone very non chalantly implies that it may. 

 

[Alfa1561]

I like this idea. I think it could add some interesting gameplay changes to merc at the very least. It certainly is annoying that mercs know exactly what security and command are planning at all times and can constantly move to avoid any well laid plan. I disagree that it forces people to talk in person - in most merc rounds, security is unaware of the comms compromise until after the main bulk of fighting is over. They have to pretend they don't already know that comms are breached.

 

I feel like this idea is worth a test at least. It would make intruding on the ship a risky endeavour for the mercs and encourage clear teamwork and cohesion, possibly even some stealth to operate as well as possible in what should be hostile and risky territory. It'll also allow security to try actually lay a creative plan with a chance that it'll work rather than be avoided or overcome every single time. Things like baiting the mercs into a certain area of the ship, making a tradeoff of phoron canisters filled with CO2 in a hostage situation, etc.

[Gromnax]

A big -1 from me. Mercs are supposed to be well organized, specialist intruders. Raiders literally have nothing else for themselves. This would break a bit of the spice of these roudes, which are the more intense on the battle side. Mercs can buy it anyway for almost nothing (4TC total), Raiders have no other possibilities to be at least a bit informed about what happens on station. I can barely see how this will make things more enjoyable for the crew either.

Quote

 with NVGs and thermals being readily available to a 4 man merc team,

Thermals have to be bought by mercs, it's not given directly.

 

After thinking about it a bit more, changing my pov to a hard -1 considering raiders, "why not" +1 considering mercs.

Mercs can buy them anyway and as explained earlier, this would give them a bit of element of surprise, so why not.

But as explained, Raiders can't buy stuff and have random gears besides said hacked channels. This would be taking away the only advantage they have over the crew.

For other off-station antags (techno and ninja), I am not sure. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Gromnax

[Gem]

i agree with this suggestion.

most rounds its just crew pretending they dont know the antags can hear them and then somehow finding out that, oh no, the antagonists can hear our comms! and then its probably just PDA spam until all the antagonists are captured or dead.

antagonists should be encouraged to steal encryption keys, or spending some of their TC for them. depends if they want the TC for something else, or if they value hearing communications.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Gem

[Colfer]

I hard disagree with this in its entirety. I believe that mercs and raiders are already going up against a crew of 20/30 people and the ability to know all the tactics that the crew is going to much more, what security and command are up to, is vitally important for what-ever gimmick they have going. I do not believe that mercs or raider requires any changes at the moment. Merc inherently devolves into a TDM because of the fact that its incentivized by their starting location which contains many many weapons, tools, and gadgets that allow them to have a more substantial impact against security should they intervene in their gimmick, but nothing is stopping mercs from doing something different.

Also, the majority of the mercenary teams that I have seen already has difficult or non-existent communications between themselves on their own, damaging their ability to gather information further I believe would have no possible positive impact on the way mercenary players play, and would result in an increase of bad, half thought, or poorly executed gimmicks. -1 from me

[CampinKiller]

90% of merc/raider rounds devolve into either: one of them gets captured or killed and someone just so happens to check their headset, then “oh great heavens!” and it switches to a PDA chat, which is incredibly annoying; or, the more likely scenario, command and security discuss what they’re going to do followed by one or all of them going “wE cAn HeAr YoU” and immediately rapidly escalating as a result, and the same PDA chat results. I don’t like it for these modes, and I think making TC be required is a great idea. It’ll probably always be bought, but at least make it cost something

Edited May 11, 2022 by CampinKiller

[Boggle08]

Really, how much the station is willing to respect the idea that their comms aren't compromised depends heavily on what the gimmick is, and how things are going on the ground. It's pretty common for people to, without prompt, resort to using the PDA to send sensitive information to each other. Especially if they happen to share a commline; Security officers that would normally hold conversations over the radio meet up together and hold a pow-wow instead. As soon as people figure out OOCly that comms have been compromised, it isn't "business as usual", It's a charade where people withhold or disclose information based on how sensitive it is, and how well the antag is doing.

People that "play by the rules" on this are eventually conditioned out of it, because it almost always ends with the antagonist dismantling their plans with the wordless precision granted by their omnipresence in the commlines. 

Compromised comms would be much more devastating and far less metagamed as a concept if they were not a given, less common, and something you had to steal or purchase with TC.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Boggle08

[Faye <3]

I agree with Boggle's suggestion. Given that comms are compromised nearly every antag round, it's essentially pageantry and re-inacting the same "oh no! Comms are compromised?! Let's all use PDA now!" song and dance. It would frankly just be more fun for security as well, because you can nearly never plan something out unless you go through the trouble of making a PDA chatroom (that antags can still see, mind you) or hold an in-person meeting. The fact that all comms access is a guarantee is, imo, very oppressive for security. It isn't much fun.

 

Making comms key purchasble for something cheap like 1 or 2 TC would make things much less predictable.

[Butterrobber202]

I'm fine with this suggestion, but I believe this will mean the number of keys accepted into military headsets will need to be expanded by 1 to accommodate the bought/stolen keys.

[Boggle08]

I think a better solution would be to create an "agent's headset", similar to how we have agent ID's. To upgrade your comms accesss, you take off your headset and swipe it against encryption keys or other headsets to bump up your access.

A TC purchase that drops a captain level encryption key in your pocket needs to be expensive, or else it'll just become part of the standard kit of certain antag types.

[Spider]

22 hours ago, Boggle08 said:

I think a better solution would be to create an "agent's headset", similar to how we have agent ID's. To upgrade your comms accesss, you take off your headset and swipe it against encryption keys or other headsets to bump up your access.

A TC purchase that drops a captain level encryption key in your pocket needs to be expensive, or else it'll just become part of the standard kit of certain antag types.

This idea is much better tbh, I like them having to work for their access instead of straight up being gifted it or buying it for virtually nothing. Maybe even adding like a new device or feature in telecomms that could enable all-access communications, making it a target for them.