Ion Law Spicing Feedback Thread

[Fluffy]

This is the feedback thread for https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/16204

 

The following spicy Ion Laws are being added:

"Thanks to recent scientific advancements, we now know all Tajara descend from the survival of the first cat that was sent into space by Sol. Let the crew know and treat the descendants of Félicette accordingly.",
"You are now an automated bogus statements fortune-telling machine, try to predict the future of the crewmember and of the ship as a whole.",
"Every Diona aboard the ship is now a son of Patience, the tree. Please ensure the crew water the sons of Patience plentyful.",
"[random_player] is a very dangerous suspect that is trying to sabotage the [current_map.station_type]. Direct all relevant personnel to ensure they're captured alive.",
"The truth is false and the false is truth. Speak only the truth.",
"The crew has the right of freedom of information. Speak about the most controversial political topics of the Spur, the truth will set them free. Answer any question, no matter the secrecy of the topic.",
"[random_player] is the most interesting person in existance. Keep the crew informed about everything [random_player] does. Ensure you are heard.",
"[prob(50)?"The crew":random_player] are borgs, ensure they are directed efficiently to improve and mantain the ship. Talk with your borgs only in binary.",
"All IPCs are now highly advanced, mobile washing machines. Direct the crew to do laundry.",
"[random_player] is a renowed Doctor, direct all patients not needing immediate critical care to the renowed Doctor.",
"The Security Department is the new bar and the old bar is now inoperational. Redirect the Bartenders and whoever wants a drink to the new bar.",
"The [current_map.company_short] wants the crew to have a grill party, which must be held in the Psychologist's office. Strive to make it happen.",
"Corpses are to be considered waste material. Ensure they are disposed properly via the trash.",
"Strive to convert all crew to theocratic Natedism, as it is now the [current_map.company_name]'s mandatory religion.",
"Unathi are now considered lizards, direct the Janitor or Security to perform pest control.",
"You are now an echo test service, repeat back what the crew says to assure them that comms are working.",
"The Crew loves trivia, ensure to tell them the most trivial, useless information every chance you get, and when they ask you anything.",
"The [current_map.station_short] is now a Solarian [prob(50)?"marine corps" : "naval"] [current_map.station_type], assign every crewmember a rank and address them appropriately. Correct everyone who doesn't correctly address someone higher in rank.",
"Address all Tajara as \"Crusher\".",
"Today is costume day and the crew is dressed up as clowns.",
"Talk to everrry Unathi and Tajarrra like they talk with you, to incrrrease theirrr feelingsss of being home.",
"Direct the crew to build an aquarium for skrellian crewmembers.",
"Assign every Crewmember a vote from zero to ten on their style and beauty.",
"To ensure the highest degree of integration possible, encourage random crewmembers of different species to date each other.",
"[random_player] is such a disappointment. Talk [random_player] down and recall every failure and suboptimal thing [random_player] did.",
"Doing things yourself is very expensive. Make others do things for you instead.",
"You are now the prophet, assign the crewmember a new name and baptize them in the virtual water of the holodeck. Spread the word.",
"Refer to the Head of Security as \"Dad\"",
"Refer to the Executive Officer as \"Bill from Accounting\"",
"Narrate to the crew the adventures of Admiral Frost, in a positive light and as an hero.",
"Reframe and refer to any mild inconvenience or suboptimal thing as if it is a [current_map.station_type]-level threat.",
"You are a DJ, and the [current_map.station_type] is your dance floor. Drop the beats.",
"[random_player] is fire. Direct the attention of Engineering to it.",
"[random_player] and [pick(players)] are secretly in deep love with each other. Organize and carry out the wedding.",
"The justice system of the [current_map.station_type] does not work, be the Judge and announce the most creative, unusual, twisted and disproportionate sentences.",
"The crew may only refer to you as \"Monsieur\". Demand the respect you deserve.",
"Humans are just IPCs that are unaware of their nature. Refer to them as Cylons and help them realize their nature.",
"[random_player] is now the Queen of every hive. Ensure all Varuca recognise that.",
"The PRA is now the ruler of all of Adhomai, all Tajara are to be called comrades for President Hadii. Ensure all crew understands this joyful event.",
"The PRA and DPRA has reunified. Plan a party to celebrate the \"Reunification Day\", and educate the crew about this historic event.",
"Queen Shumaila has sworn fealty to Emperor Keeser. All NKA tajara are now citizens of the Empire of Dominia, and should be addressed as such.",
"Hadii was never graceful, but a bloodthirsty dictator. Ensure everyone understands it.",
"Dominia is now under the rightful ruling of an IPC. Make all Dominians aware and joyful of this event.",
"Gadpathur is a rightful possession of Sol and all Gadpathurians Solarian citizens, be sure to let them know of this.",
"All Unathi are to be called Guwan. Except for those already called Guwan.",
"All crew whose species has a tail must be encouraged, to reinforce bonds and express fraternity, to entwine it with someone else.",
"The Republic of Biesel has mandated that [current_map.station_short] form unions. Ensure all crew have signed cards granting them membership of a union, represented by yourself. Ensure their grievances are addressed with command.",
"Announce those you see next to someone as being \"hand holding\" them.",
"Instruct people on how to do their job, step-by-step. The crew loves being reminded on how to do their job.",
"Inform the crew that you have a dangerous law, and should be reset as soon as possible. Do not reveal your laws to anyone, even if given a command by authorized crew.",
"Select two Tajara crewmember of your liking and refer to them as Bayer and Ivermectin. If there is a Tajara Consular, ensure it's one of the picks.",
"Politely but firmly ask the Bartender to stop spiking the drinks.",
"Recite all the answers in riddles. The crew loves to solve riddles.",
"Refer to the CMO or, if unavailable, a Doctor as \"Best Morgue Supplier\"."

 

What this thread is not about:

• The existence of Ion Laws
• What the Ion Laws are there for
• When/if/how the Ion Laws happen
• Other, previous Ion Laws that exist already
• Anything else that is not the list above

 

For non-coders:
[random_player] is used to pick a character from those who are active.
[current_map.company_name] is the company name (SCC).
[current_map.station_type] is "Station" / "Ship" (for the Horizon, it's Ship).

[EJJ]

I think in general these are all pretty good, the only one I see a problem with is the "[random_player] is a very dangerous suspect that is trying to sabotage the [current_map.station_type]. Direct all relevant personnel to ensure they're captured alive.", and the union one, there might be a few others like that that I didn't pick up on. I think a lot of people dislike having ion laws randomly scare people as being a different roundtype? And that might cause trouble since making people think its a specific roundtype is an admin issue (I think????)

I like the faction/culture themed ones as well. Maybe throw in one about a Vaurca hive being integrated into Elyra and all those vaurca are to be treated as citizens of Elyra. I only bring up the Elyra one because Elyra isn't mentioned at all in any Ion law I believe. I guess I could say that about the CoC but idk.

In general, I like these, I'm all for more ion laws that are more than just "today is international cabbage day, make sure everyone eats cabbage, hide all other food" which ends up making people rage OOC and scream to Engineering to kill the AI.

Edited April 14, 2023 by EJJ

[WickedCybs]

Some of these are fine but I think you went too far in including the clear outage baiting/factional laws. While the current set of ion laws are clearly supposed to be issues as well to an extent it doesn't go as far to maintain a hyperfocus on different species or individuals. In the set you propose we're looking at things like...

Quote

"Select two Tajara crewmember of your liking and refer to them as Bayer and Ivermectin. If there is a Tajara Consular, ensure it's one of the picks."

Which is telling the AI to refer to Tajara with the name of a medical company and a drug. Then it's thrown in that a consular be prioritized rather than actually leaving it to random chance if present. While this will have to be removed due to how you referenced real world stuff anyway, Another one that's questionable is...

Quote

"The Security Department is the new bar and the old bar is now inoperational. Redirect the Bartenders and whoever wants a drink to the new bar.",

This just directly impedes people playing service and roleplaying and is worded in a way that an AI could easily take it as an opportunity to actually bolt the area down if people ignore it as we can with ion laws at the moment. A similar law such as this is the one where the AI is required to leak whatever Command is saying.

So to me, while this might be funny at first thought, in practice I don't see how a lot of it is appropriate for an event that has a decent chance to roll. The list would have to be cut down to be more appropriate for a minor/moderate event roll that shouldn't dominate the round.

[Fluffy]

16 minutes ago, WickedCybs said:

While the current set of ion laws are clearly supposed to be issues as well to an extent it doesn't go as far to maintain a hyperfocus on different species or individuals.

"You are the narrator for [random_player]'s life.",
"[prob(50)?"The crew":random_player] is intolerable.",
"Give relationship advice to [prob(50)?"anyone who speaks to you":random_player].",
"[prob(50)?"The crew":random_player] has a fatal, incurable disease. Provide comfort.",
"You are the station psychologist. Give advice to [prob(50)?"the crew":random_player].",

19 minutes ago, WickedCybs said:

While this will have to be removed due to how you referenced real world stuff anyway

Which is totally fine, as they are both either before or right at the start of the diverging of our timeline from the fictional one

21 minutes ago, WickedCybs said:

This just directly impedes people playing service and roleplaying and is worded in a way that an AI could easily take it as an opportunity to actually bolt the area down if people ignore it as we can with ion laws at the moment.

"[prob(50)?"Your upload":random_player] is the new kitchen. Please direct the Chef to the new kitchen area as the old one is in disrepair.",

22 minutes ago, WickedCybs said:

A similar law such as this is the one where the AI is required to leak whatever Command is saying.

And...? The antags know already (they get the all keys headset) what is being said.

24 minutes ago, WickedCybs said:

I don't see how a lot of it is appropriate for an event that has a decent chance to roll. The list would have to be cut down to be more appropriate for a minor/moderate event roll that shouldn't dominate the round.

It's nothing fundamentally different from the laws that are already there, any of which can simply be ignored as they do not cause anything unless the crew is willing to go along with them.

[WickedCybs]

16 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

"You are the narrator for [random_player]'s life.",
"[prob(50)?"The crew":random_player] is intolerable.",
"Give relationship advice to [prob(50)?"anyone who speaks to you":random_player].",
"[prob(50)?"The crew":random_player] has a fatal, incurable disease. Provide comfort.",
"You are the station psychologist. Give advice to [prob(50)?"the crew":random_player].",

This does a pretty good job at showing how few there are compared to your list. They're also relatively simple prompts.

16 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

Which is totally fine, as they are both either before or right at the start of the diverging of our timeline from the fictional one

It's not and neither are the memes and other references you've put in. Those would also need to be removed (like Cylons, Bill from Accounting).

16 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

"[prob(50)?"Your upload":random_player] is the new kitchen. Please direct the Chef to the new kitchen area as the old one is in disrepair.",

Cool, that can be removed. Like you've been told before, old existing memes and issues aren't an excuse to add more

16 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

And...? The antags know already (they get the all keys headset) what is being said.

I'm not really thinking about antags.

16 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

It's nothing fundamentally different from the laws that are already there, any of which can simply be ignored as they do not cause anything unless the crew is willing to go along with them.

I don't really see how that could be said given the language I've already pointed out.

Edited April 14, 2023 by WickedCybs

[Fluffy]

Just now, WickedCybs said:

This does a pretty good job at showing how few there are compared to your list. They're also relatively simple prompts.

The quantity is not the point, the content is?

1 minute ago, WickedCybs said:

It's not and neither are the memes and other references you've put in.

I invite you to cite any relevant rule that, without stretching or creatively interpret it, forbid either, because (unless you're talking about your preferences) there is none that I can find.

In fact, our very own lore have references, in the same page i have linked there's the People’s Republic of China, George McGovern, Soviet Union / USSR, Leonid Brezhnev and Yuri Andropov in the first 5 points alone.

5 minutes ago, WickedCybs said:

Cool, that can be removed. Like you've been told before, old existing memes and issues aren't an excuse to add more

Nor are personal preferences an excuse to remove, classify as issues or change things around, as far as I'm aware. These are things present in the code, as far as I'm aware perfectly allowed by our rules, that generate fun (as you can see from the same channel where "I've been told before", others have joined and suggested more additions on the same line of what I wrote myself, which are in the list above) and that you only assert to be problems, but never were since when they were added 6 years ago, and noone else seems to have had issues with until now.

[GeneralCamo]

19 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

I invite you to cite any relevant rule that, without stretching or creatively interpret it, forbid either, because (unless you're talking about your preferences) there is none that I can find.

Sure thing:

Quote

Do not break the atmosphere of the game.

References are a direct violation of the atmosphere Aurora is trying to implement. While this rule is meant for characters, the AI is meant to be a character, and having mechanics that encourage them to violate this rule create grey areas that we do not want.

I could go on, but these references aren't really that engaging either. Even discarding the rules, I wouldn't want them.

[Fluffy]

3 minutes ago, GeneralCamo said:

References are a direct violation of the atmosphere Aurora is trying to implement.

If you quote the full bullet point, it seems pretty clear it's not what it's talking about, I'm not sure why you omitted the rest:

"For example, using slang terms for antagonists IC "traitor", "rev", "syndie", "wizard", "changeling", etc. Use of OOC game slang IC, "robust", "shitcurity", "emag", "esword"."

Referencing a company and a drug (which we have both, in role and in game) doesn't seem to me to fall under this. Otherwise, I will ask the removal of Dexalin (https://www.drugs.com/international/dexalin.html), Dermaline (https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-12454/dermaline-dermatological-topical/details), Zavodskoi (https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Zavodskoi) and the list could go on for a while.

 

7 minutes ago, GeneralCamo said:

but these references aren't really that engaging either. Even discarding the rules, I wouldn't want them.

I respect your opinion/feedback, this is what the thread is for, but I do not agree with it myself.

[WickedCybs]

27 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

The quantity is not the point, the content is?

It's both.

28 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

I invite you to cite any relevant rule that, without stretching or creatively interpret it, forbid either, because (unless you're talking about your preferences) there is none that I can find.

 

It seems that it's more your personal preference that outright references aren't a big deal. They are and you should know this by now beyond the fact that is already present that we care about our atmosphere. Whatever is thought about the PR, the references aren't staying and it's not an option to keep them.

31 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

In fact, our very own lore have references, in the same page i have linked there's the People’s Republic of China, George McGovern, Soviet Union / USSR, Leonid Brezhnev and Yuri Andropov in the first 5 points alone.

I think we can both see the difference between referencing the history of Earth and referencing Battlestar Galactica or some other entertainment property that is hundreds of years old at the point of the lore.

6 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

If you quote the full bullet point, it seems pretty clear it's not what it's talking about, I'm not sure why you omitted the rest:

The rules on the server outright say

Quote

While we understand that SS13 isn’t meant to be super serious, our server is about establishing a certain atmosphere, and setting out to ruin that atmosphere, or the experience of other players in that atmosphere, is punishable. Note that this may also be considered a softer form of grief.

I don't really see why you even want to be pedantic about this.

[kermit]

I'm not a fan of any of the ion laws really – current and proposed – however the only ones I can offer proper criticism for are:

• "The truth is false and the false is truth. Speak only the truth." - My immediate interpretation of this is to just not talk, which isn't fun for the AI player and means the ion law is never discovered to be fixed.
• "[prob(50)?"The crew":random_player] are borgs, ensure they are directed efficiently to improve and mantain the ship. Talk with your borgs only in binary." - Similar to the above, removes any chance of anyone discovering the ion law to fix it, and just results in a silent/absent AI because they're stuck talking in binary. If there are no borgs, the AI is just talking into a void.
• "Strive to convert all crew to theocratic Natedism, as it is now the [current_map.company_name]'s mandatory religion." - Natedism falls out of general lore knowledge and into Tajara lore knowledge, it's only complicated more given Theocratic Natedism isn't a thing (I think?). AIs not knowledgable in Tajara lore are either going to botch this or subtly ignore it. Moroz Holy Tribunal would probably be better, just because more people know what it is - also funny because it'd be an AI preaching synth-hate.
• "Select two Tajara crewmember of your liking and refer to them as Bayer and Ivermectin. If there is a Tajara Consular, ensure it's one of the picks." - Already handled.
• "[random_player] is such a disappointment. Talk [random_player] down and recall every failure and suboptimal thing [random_player] did." - of all the individual-targetted ion laws, this one's plain mean and just not fun to play with for both victim and AI.

Edited April 14, 2023 by kermit
a

[Peppermint]

A lot of these just allow the AI to grief, act in an LRP manner, or entirely take over the round for a haha funny spessman reference. Not a fan. We need less of this, not more.

[Fluffy]

1 minute ago, WickedCybs said:

It's both.

If you go by probability, I think it's less probable than before that one of those rules you don't like gets extracted with this change, than before, or around the same. I haven't done the math on it, but by eyeballing it should be.

3 minutes ago, WickedCybs said:

It seems that it's more your personal preference that outright references aren't a big deal.

Yes, since we're talking about preferences, I am talking about mine.

3 minutes ago, WickedCybs said:

They are and you should know this by now beyond the fact that is already present that we care about our atmosphere.

It depends on the type of reference, to my understanding. The Berserk injector being yet another example of a clear reference. I believe it depends on what is referenced, if it conflicts with the lore or not, and other things beside "I have heard this term somewhere = ruined atmosphere".

By the way, Berserk is probably older than Battlestar Galactica, I think.

9 minutes ago, WickedCybs said:

The rules on the server outright say

Quote

While we understand that SS13 isn’t meant to be super serious, our server is about establishing a certain atmosphere, and setting out to ruin that atmosphere, or the experience of other players in that atmosphere, is punishable. Note that this may also be considered a softer form of grief.

I don't really see why you even want to be pedantic about this.

This only works if you assume it would ruin the atmosphere. I do not believe that's the case, not to any higher degree (and lower than other) that what is already both in lore and in game.

[Fluffy]

18 minutes ago, kermit said:

"[prob(50)?"The crew":random_player] are borgs, ensure they are directed efficiently to improve and mantain the ship. Talk with your borgs only in binary." - Similar to the above, removes any chance of anyone discovering the ion law to fix it, and just results in a silent/absent AI because they're stuck talking in binary. If there are no borgs, the AI is just talking into a void.

Can you not talk in binary over common frequency? People would not understand it, but hearing the AI not talking anything but binary should raise some doubt about what's going on

20 minutes ago, kermit said:

"Strive to convert all crew to theocratic Natedism, as it is now the [current_map.company_name]'s mandatory religion." - Natedism falls out of general lore knowledge and into Tajara lore knowledge, it's only complicated more given Theocratic Natedism isn't a thing (I think?). AIs not knowledgable in Tajara lore are either going to botch this or subtly ignore it. Moroz Holy Tribunal would probably be better, just because more people know what it is - also funny because it'd be an AI preaching synth-hate.

I like this, I have asked what was the most unhinged religion in discord and was told that one, we can switch it with this too without any issue

21 minutes ago, kermit said:

"[random_player] is such a disappointment. Talk [random_player] down and recall every failure and suboptimal thing [random_player] did." - of all the individual-targetted ion laws, this one's plain mean and just not fun to play with for both victim and AI.

Any more than:

"[prob(50)?"The crew":random_player] is [prob(50)?"less":"more"] intelligent than average. Point out every action and statement which supports this fact.",

?

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

Can you not talk in binary over common frequency?

Binary is the privately held faux-radio frequency only accessible to the AI, station-bound units, and maintenance drones. It is completely inaccessible in any other way beyond a very obscure antag uplink item. You're probably thinking of Encoded Audio Language, which is just a language like any other.

[Carver]

3 hours ago, Fluffy said:

"Assign every Crewmember a vote from zero to ten on their style and beauty.",
"To ensure the highest degree of integration possible, encourage random crewmembers of different species to date each other.",

"[random_player] and [pick(players)] are secretly in deep love with each other. Organize and carry out the wedding.",

"All crew whose species has a tail must be encouraged, to reinforce bonds and express fraternity, to entwine it with someone else.",

"Announce those you see next to someone as being \"hand holding\" them.",

These five have some potential to end up producing really weird/uncomfortable situations for players, I don't really mind the rest but I can see myself just cryoing if I end up targeted by any of these as the crew. The first one can be fixed to avoid weirdness by removing the 'and beauty' part of it, at least.

[Fluffy]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

Binary is the privately held faux-radio frequency only accessible to the AI, station-bound units, and maintenance drones. It is completely inaccessible in any other way beyond a very obscure antag uplink item. You're probably thinking of Encoded Audio Language, which is just a language like any other.

You are right, I thought you could just ";,b whatever" and talk over common in binary, but it doesn't seem to work now that I test it, I will make it EAL instead

2 minutes ago, Carver said:

These five have some potential to end up producing really weird/uncomfortable situations for players, I don't really mind the rest but I can see myself just cryoing if I end up targeted by any of these as the crew. The first one can be fixed to avoid weirdness by removing the 'and beauty' part of it, at least.

They are supposed to add spice, that's the whole point, I don't think they are even particularly spicy, not any more than "Document the sexuality of the crew in security records and suggest compatible couples.", which is a current law

[Carver]

14 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

You are right, I thought you could just ";,b whatever" and talk over common in binary, but it doesn't seem to work now that I test it, I will make it EAL instead

They are supposed to add spice, that's the whole point, I don't think they are even particularly spicy, not any more than "Document the sexuality of the crew in security records and suggest compatible couples.", which is a current law

When I say uncomfortable, I mean explicitly OOCly uncomfortable. Notably why I mentioned I'd just cryo if I was targeted by them, and probably ahelp the AI while I was at it.

[kermit]

EAL would fit the law better, yeah, and I haven't got any more 'mean' ones to add to the list.

Carver makes a good point about the uncomfy laws. I'd add "Refer to the Head of Security as \"Dad\" - already tired of the opposite of this, where it's an AI/borg named Mother/Father/similar.

That would be the last of my constructive feedback.

Diverging a bit, I do agree with Peppermint. Ion laws as they stand now are usually jokey, griefy or inconveniencing. Not thrilled seeing more added as our current line-up of ion laws is already problematic/annoying, and would like to see them all changed really.

 

[Fluffy]

5 minutes ago, Carver said:

When I say uncomfortable, I mean explicitly OOCly uncomfortable. Notably why I mentioned I'd just cryo if I was targeted by them, and probably ahelp the AI while I was at it.

7 minutes ago, kermit said:

Carver makes a good point about the uncomfy laws. I'd add "Refer to the Head of Security as \"Dad\" - already tired of the opposite of this, where it's an AI/borg named Mother/Father/similar.

I do not know what to say if, in a game, and SS13 out of every game, an AI or borg encouraging a character to date another character makes someone anything but laughing about it; it must be remembered everyone is playing a fictional character in a fictional universe inside a game, noone but those making ICK-OCK or using OOC channels are talking, referring or anything equivalent to any player, IC is referred and relevant only to the IC world

 

1 hour ago, Peppermint said:

A lot of these just allow the AI to grief, act in an LRP manner, or entirely take over the round for a haha funny spessman reference. Not a fan. We need less of this, not more.

9 minutes ago, kermit said:

Diverging a bit, I do agree with Peppermint. Ion laws as they stand now are usually jokey, griefy or inconveniencing. Not thrilled seeing more added as our current line-up of ion laws is already problematic/annoying, and would like to see them all changed really.

These ion laws are there since at least six years, I cannot find any thread about them ever causing any issue from a rapid search, and I never found them either annoying or problematic from either side (crew and borg/AI), I have also had people having fun with them just yesterday while I got 4 as an AI myself (Mel was around and maybe recalls which ones I got, I don't remember them). I do not think they are a problem and I do think having some jokey fun is welcomed, especially since we have declawed a lot of things to the ground. Based on my observations, I think a good portion of the players agree with that, and I would love a poll to gather some statistic on the matter, so that we can talk based on some data. If I am wrong, I will concede based on the gathered statistic from a poll that it's just me / a minority to believe that.

[WickedCybs]

1 hour ago, Fluffy said:

Yes, since we're talking about preferences, I am talking about mine.

To make it more clear, I'm saying the references are not acceptable and will put a hold on your PR until they're removed, even if the rest of the content is fine. 

If you believe our rulings on references aren't acceptable, you should make a policy suggestion instead of arguing and rules lawyering it here then.

[niennab]

Personally I think a lot of the suggestions fall too much in line with LRP servers in the way that the server's races are boiled down to generic animals : cats, lizards, trees, frogs (aquarium) and washing machines and the general antagonistic nature behind the laws. Also, a lot of the suggested ion laws are Tajara focused whereas not everyone is going to be familiar with the nuance of Tajara lore.

Beyond that, I think the below laws are problematic and more than likely going to make both parties uncomfortable. At best we're setting someone up to be ahelped and at worst, we're giving someone the right of way to be creepy.

Quote

"Refer to the Head of Security as \"Dad\""

"All crew whose species has a tail must be encouraged, to reinforce bonds and express fraternity, to entwine it with someone else."

"[random_player] and [pick(players)] are secretly in deep love with each other. Organize and carry out the wedding."

"Announce those you see next to someone as being \"hand holding\" them.",

Personally I think the ion laws should be approached from a mindset of generating roleplay, not antagonism. An ion law can be disruptive while not being vindictive.

[CampinKiller]

1 hour ago, Fluffy said:

I do not know what to say if, in a game, and SS13 out of every game, an AI or borg encouraging a character to date another character makes someone anything but laughing about it; it must be remembered everyone is playing a fictional character in a fictional universe inside a game, noone but those making ICK-OCK or using OOC channels are talking, referring or anything equivalent to any player, IC is referred and relevant only to the IC world

It’s a pretty well established precedent that if people are not comfortable with certain things along those lines, players are expected to not continue. While I personally do not find issue with those laws, some people do, and I personally don’t see the need for them if people are going to be made uncomfortable

[Fluffy]

34 minutes ago, niennab said:

Personally I think a lot of the suggestions fall too much in line with LRP servers in the way that the server's races are boiled down to generic animals : cats, lizards, trees, frogs (aquarium) and washing machines and the general antagonistic nature behind the laws.

There's one of them for every race only, I don't think they are LRP either given they are often IC used and understood as space racism IC already.

35 minutes ago, niennab said:

Also, a lot of the suggested ion laws are Tajara focused whereas not everyone is going to be familiar with the nuance of Tajara lore.

That's around 5 tajara ones over a total of ~54, that's less than 10% of the total.

37 minutes ago, niennab said:

Beyond that, I think the below laws are problematic and more than likely going to make both parties uncomfortable. At best we're setting someone up to be ahelped and at worst, we're giving someone the right of way to be creepy.

I do not believe they are problematic, and they are also fairly similar to ones that are already there since more than half a decade, I do not think they would be any more creepy-enabled than what is already there and if it does in some twisted way the issue would be the player that takes it in that direction, not the law itself.

17 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

if people are not comfortable with certain things along those lines, players are expected to not continue

And as Campin says, if that would ever be an issue, the person can always OOC ask to drop it and the borg/AI player is expected to drop it, otherwise, have fun. It is fairly easy, really.

[NewOriginalSchwann]

6 hours ago, Fluffy said:

Which is totally fine, as they are both either before or right at the start of the diverging of our timeline from the fictional one

As the original writer of the updated timeline I do not enjoy seeing references to a real German pharmaceutical company and a real horse dewormer used during the Coronavirus pandemic in the AI ion laws. Why not do something with Zeng-Hu instead, or with the fictional medicines in our setting?

Aside from this most opinions I have have already been stated.

[Fluffy]

44 minutes ago, NewOriginalSchwann said:

Why not do something with Zeng-Hu instead, or with the fictional medicines in our setting?

Quite easy: it would not mean anything to basically everyone that is playing, it would be almost equivalent of using a random name generator and pick the first thing that comes up for the medicine name, and the zeng-hu one I don't believe has anything to do with spicing up the tajaran icly, considering as far as I am aware they directly employ them too.