Canonically kill Pun Pun and replace him with a capybara

[Fluffy]

31 minutes ago, KingOfThePing said:

They are mascots. That's their purpose. Like in real life people hold cats or dogs or reptiles or bunnies or whatever because they are funny and because they keep you company. You dont get pets to use them for a specific purpose, except at some workplaces (like guard dogs), but then they are no pets, they are employees. There is not much more to elaborate on other that our pets should remain funny novelties.

Sure, but this isn't the residential area, this is the work area of a ship that belongs to a dystopian megacorp conglomerate, IMHO it makes more sense that they would give us animals that have a purpose (like Columbo) if they can, rather than some animals "because they are funny and because they keep you company", also considering that they can do that while also being work-useful

My question however was more meant on the lines of OOC consideration, aka, why do you think from a game perspective it's better for them to be pets? Why is it preferable over them being useful tools too? That's what I wanted to inquire

[Carver]

1 hour ago, KingOfThePing said:

They are mascots. That's their purpose. Like in real life people hold cats or dogs or reptiles or bunnies or whatever because they are funny and because they keep you company.

This led me to a thought, why not have a lizard for the bar? Unintrusive, won’t get hair everywhere, no other department has one, all while still being a fairly domesticated animal. Has sprites and serviceable AI too since it’s a passive vermin animal used in custodial events.

Bonus points for the obvious Lounge Lizard joke.

[OolongCow]

8 hours ago, Carver said:

I would not go to any bar where there’s the risk of cat hair in a drink.

 

[Carver]

3 hours ago, OolongCow said:

 

Even furless I don't want anything that'd climb on the bar and get near my drink. Animals on the countertop are horridly unhygienic.

[Sycmos]

19 hours ago, Fluffy said:

Sure, but this isn't the residential area, this is the work area of a ship that belongs to a dystopian megacorp conglomerate, IMHO it makes more sense that they would give us animals that have a purpose (like Columbo) if they can, rather than some animals "because they are funny and because they keep you company", also considering that they can do that while also being work-useful

My question however was more meant on the lines of OOC consideration, aka, why do you think from a game perspective it's better for them to be pets? Why is it preferable over them being useful tools too? That's what I wanted to inquire

If we made rulings on whether to keep things based entirely on whether or not it was pragmatic for a "dystopian megacorp conglomerate" we would not have Patience, we would not have holodecks, we would not have a bar and the Horizon would resemble more of an office space than a long-range vessel. These are all choices that are made for quality of life for the betterment of staff morale where a majority of crew are expected to both live and work in the same place for long periods. The most immediate sci-fi franchise that features what is closest to a dystopian megacorporation has a cat as a crew member in the first film - Alien. Small concessions for the sake of personality are important for keeping the atmosphere from feeling dull. They make the setting feel lived in and real.

The issue with Pun Pun is that, as Nienna mentioned, they are a leftover from memes that came from early SS13 culture. By comparison to the remainder of the pets on the deck they are neither mundane enough to feel normal nor unique enough to make sense for our lore - they're just a monkey in a costume with a reference name. A capybara would be far more unique and likely to garner positive attention, and less likely to be left in the backroom to be ignored.

[Fluffy]

8 minutes ago, Sycmos said:

If we made rulings on whether to keep things based entirely on whether or not it was pragmatic for a "dystopian megacorp conglomerate" we would not have Patience, we would not have holodecks, we would not have a bar and the Horizon would resemble more of an office space than a long-range vessel. These are all choices that are made for quality of life for the betterment of staff morale where a majority of crew are expected to both live and work in the same place for long periods.

That is correct, however two rebuttals are present in what you said yourself: "for the betterment of staff morale" and "long-range vessel"

Sure, a company can go full 1984 concrete buildings space optimization on the ship, but the depressed and likely mentally unstable employees it would generate makes them bad performing workers, that's, I think, a good justification of why we get a Psychologist/Psychiatrist on duty, a Bar and some other amenities besides what is strictly needed for the ship to function, and it goes for pets too, but that was not my point, see below

 

17 minutes ago, Sycmos said:

Alien. Small concessions for the sake of personality are important for keeping the atmosphere from feeling dull. They make the setting feel lived in and real.

17 minutes ago, Sycmos said:

The issue with Pun Pun is that, as Nienna mentioned, they are a leftover from memes that came from early SS13 culture. By comparison to the remainder of the pets on the deck they are neither mundane enough to feel normal nor unique enough to make sense for our lore - they're just a monkey in a costume with a reference name. A capybara would be far more unique and likely to garner positive attention, and less likely to be left in the backroom to be ignored.

To be clear, I have no interest in keeping PunPun (or any other animal for that matter), what I was saying is that I believe it would be an improvement on both fronts if they were animals that gather positive attention and they were also useful animals, the two aren't mutually exclusive (a mercy dog/capibara/whatever in Medbay would be both)

You would give a reason to pull the animals out of their cages/offices (because if nothing else you have a mechanical incentive to have it at hand) and they would also generate positive attention from the rest of the crew

Both the animal having a mechanical utility or not would work for replacing PunPun, and I think it having a mechanical utility could add other things of value on top of acknowledging the existence of an animal in a department/corridor and spamclicking "pet" x50 (or the occasional comparison between Crusher and a Tajara)

Therefore my question was: What would make it preferable for them not to have a mechanical utility on top of it? What makes it better, game wise, for them to just be roaming mobs that don't do anything, over them be roaming mobs that can also do something?

[Sycmos]

25 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

That is correct, however two rebuttals are present in what you said yourself: "for the betterment of staff morale" and "long-range vessel"

Sure, a company can go full 1984 concrete buildings space optimization on the ship, but the depressed and likely mentally unstable employees it would generate makes them bad performing workers, that's, I think, a good justification of why we get a Psychologist/Psychiatrist on duty, a Bar and some other amenities besides what is strictly needed for the ship to function, and it goes for pets too, but that was not my point, see below

 

To be clear, I have no interest in keeping PunPun (or any other animal for that matter), what I was saying is that I believe it would be an improvement on both fronts if they were animals that gather positive attention and they were also useful animals, the two aren't mutually exclusive (a mercy dog/capibara/whatever in Medbay would be both)

You would give a reason to pull the animals out of their cages/offices (because if nothing else you have a mechanical incentive to have it at hand) and they would also generate positive attention from the rest of the crew

Both the animal having a mechanical utility or not would work for replacing PunPun, and I think it having a mechanical utility could add other things of value on top of acknowledging the existence of an animal in a department/corridor and spamclicking "pet" x50 (or the occasional comparison between Crusher and a Tajara)

Therefore my question was: What would make it preferable for them not to have a mechanical utility on top of it? What makes it better, game wise, for them to just be roaming mobs that don't do anything, over them be roaming mobs that can also do something?

They already have utility, and that's being a palate cleanser/morale boost for crew. They don't need any function beyond that, because that's not what pets are for. They're for companionship and making a living space feel more comfortable. If we gave them utilitarian function they would stop being pets and become working animals, which are not treated the same as pets in most places as their intended purpose is to serve a function first before being considered a pet. Working animals are bred and trained to fulfill a certain function first, and are pets second, which lays down ground rules for how people who are not trained to handle them are allowed to interact with them. Giving them any function beyond being therapy animals (which they tend to be treated as and is a relatively low-risk assumption) would likely lead to rules and guidelines with how they can be interacted with that defeats the purpose of them being shared with crew.

[Fluffy]

6 minutes ago, Sycmos said:

If we gave them utilitarian function they would stop being pets and become working animals, which are not treated the same as pets in most places as their intended purpose is to serve a function first before being considered a pet. Working animals are bred and trained to fulfill a certain function first, and are pets second, which lays down ground rules for how people who are not trained to handle them are allowed to interact with them. Giving them any function beyond being therapy animals (which they tend to be treated as and is a relatively low-risk assumption) would likely lead to rules and guidelines with how they can be interacted with that defeats the purpose of them being shared with crew.

This is an excellent point I have not thought about

I retract my suggestion from the scope of this proposal

[rrrrrr]

2 hours ago, Sycmos said:

The issue with Pun Pun is that, as Nienna mentioned, they are a leftover from memes that came from early SS13 culture. By comparison to the remainder of the pets on the deck they are neither mundane enough to feel normal nor unique enough to make sense for our lore - they're just a monkey in a costume with a reference name. A capybara would be far more unique and likely to garner positive attention, and less likely to be left in the backroom to be ignored.

I suspect that I'm weird in that I'm both highly pro-Pun Pun and pro-killing him off forever.

I'm also a pedantic freak and feel the need to correct the idea that monkeys were a "meme" in early SS13 (i.e, 2009 - 2011). The bar having a monkey was a Goonstation original dating back to, I think, Devstation, the second map and the one that Boxstation (which still sees wide usage) descends from. The monkey was named Mr. Muggles. It was /tg/ that made the name a reference. The justification is the same as the Alien crew having a cat: good for morale. Monkeys are fun. Everyone likes monkeys. The station has a lot of them. Let's hang out with a monkey in the bar. (Of course, times have changed. Way less monkeys onboard, now.)

Random aside, but I've seen some people call Pun-Pun a chimpanzee. He's obviously not. He's a rhesus macaque, probably, or some other kind of Old World monkey, or, more likely, a genetically engineered primate bred for docility to further ease of usage in medical testing.

Aside from that, I guarantee you that inside of a month the novelty of having a capybara will wear off and the poor beast will be in Pun-Pun's current position: trapped in a four-by-four holding cell, slipping on a banana peel, forever.

Put Pun-Pun out of his misery. Make it canon. No replacement. His tiny suit and waistcoat are too large to fill.

[greenjoe]

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/17599

[Carver]

9 hours ago, greenjoe said:

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/17599

I’d really rather keep Pun Pun than go to another weird meme animal as a pet instead of something more sensible/grounded.

[Shimmer]

2 minutes ago, Carver said:

I’d really rather keep Pun Pun than go to another weird meme animal as a pet instead of something more sensible/grounded.

I'd rather not because Pun-Pun is boring and deserves to finally be ousted.

Capybaras are cooler than monkeys.

[Carver]

10 minutes ago, Shimmer said:

I'd rather not because Pun-Pun is boring and deserves to finally be ousted.

Capybaras are cooler than monkeys.

If something is 'cooler' than a monkey I don't want to see it as a pet. No more novelty meme animals.

[GeneralCamo]

1 hour ago, Carver said:

I’d really rather keep Pun Pun

Pun Pun's dead. Not really much of a choice there. 

[Shimmer]

1 hour ago, Carver said:

If something is 'cooler' than a monkey I don't want to see it as a pet. No more novelty meme animals.

So do we remove Ginny and Ives? They're novelty animals.

[KingOfThePing]

I really dont like the name Bongo. Who decided that? 

[greenjoe]

54 minutes ago, KingOfThePing said:

I really dont like the name Bongo. Who decided that? 

Read was saying about that for the name.

[ImmortalRedshirt]

3 hours ago, Shimmer said:

So do we remove Ginny and Ives?

Hey, not a bad idea!

[Carver]

7 hours ago, Shimmer said:

So do we remove Ginny and Ives? They're novelty animals.

I'm all for that, and the fox as well.

[rrrrrr]

8 hours ago, Shimmer said:

So do we remove Ginny and Ives? They're novelty animals.

This is actually a good idea.

[Carver]

8 hours ago, GeneralCamo said:

Pun Pun's dead. Not really much of a choice there. 

I’d forgotten to respond to this earlier, but, the bar doesn’t really need a pet. We have no obligation to uphold the traditions of other servers in giving the bar and every department a pet.

[rrrrrr]

keep in mind that i wrote this post in a lighthearted spirit of gaiety

 

essentially everything about ss13 that can accurately be called "cheugy" can be traced back to /tg/, a server with the distinction of being the most popular open-source codebase and also having been run continuously by people who have almost no taste.

every department getting a pet until eventually we have people asking for a "cargo spider" or some dumb shit like that? that was /tg/

space carp, a dumb fantasy monster that poses no threat and is annoying? that was /tg/, also a "meme" by the absurdly loose standards the people here have for that word

the frankly bad map design we still see to this day? can also be blamed on /tg/ and how for almost a decade, boxstation was the "default" map

 

compare how /tg/ does pets vs. how goon, a server that is actually good, does them

/tg/pets are basically just objects that amble around and maybe shit out of a canned emote every now and then. goonstation, which is far and away the most aesthetically and mechanically pleasing server, does in fact give animals basic ai. they do stuff. many of them serve purposes. this is because goonstation has been developed by people and not neaderthals who think steampunk is cool, like /tg/ was

 

im gonna be blunt and say this idea is half-baked and like every other department pet idea to have been made since 2012, which is basically the dawn of time for this game. the neolithic period.
"wow wouldnt it be cool if we had X animal in Y department?" and a bunch of people nod to themselves and some guy sprites it then it's in the game and. wow, adds absolutely nothing. in 2026 when horses are the generic "funny animal of the year" like capybaras are now you will all be posting ideas to add a cargo horse and making long impassioned spiels about how actually it would make sense for cargo to have a pet horse considering that horses can pull crates,

 

same old same old. next canon event i'm murdering every animal onboard other than ian and making a thread saying it should be canon

[Aphelion]

Maybe give PunPun actually interesting mechanics then. Like let her hold drinks, maybe even have a way to show her how to mix a specific drink and just have her continue to make it, if that would be possible.  (sounds like it would be difficult to program but could be fun).

Maybe if you give her a bucket, and put her in a hydroponics room, she will run around with the bucket and water plants.

Another option... handing her the shotgun, and letting the bartender command her to shoot people. though that's more silly. 

Monkey in space is cool, imo. Pun Pun is fun, tho if we could actually make the pets a bit more interesting I'd be all for that.  Even just personality would be nice, like give PunPun, Ian, Ginny, and what not a favourite food, and tricks and stuff.

[KingOfThePing]

This all does not sound very suitable for a HRP enviroment. It's a monkey, that's it.