Golden Deep Community Inquiry

[Noble Row]

Hello everyone,

Here at the Synth team we're looking to garner opinions, impressions, criticisms, and feedback regarding the Golden Deep within the lore. We would like to see what the community thinks of the faction, as well if they had any thoughts about its present and its future.

We would like to know as well with what makes people engage with the faction, or not engage with it, and how these could be tuned to better fit our community's interest. It is our goal as lore writers to help make lore you all would enjoy and would like to see!

Thank you all for your time!

[Carver]

For better or worse, they've always struck me as a bit of a 'caricature' faction, and so I've struggled to take them seriously in most any interaction with their characters in turn. That combined with their rather exaggerated aesthetic has led me to feel that they're more of an 'event faction' to be used inevitably as minor antagonists in some future arc, rather than something that you'd reasonably make a character for.

I haven't really tended to have positive experiences interacting with Golden Deep characters, as they trend toward acting like 'metal scrooge mcduck'. As a faction they're not really interesting for a third party synthetic group (unlike Purpose who aren't playable, which really helps maintain a sense of mystery), with the exception of their vessel Midas - which feels almost designed to be a hugely valuable target for a major faction that would see it taken apart for research. I think that best summarizes my feelings about them, merely a 'lore piñata' for another faction to break open.

[Comet Blaze]

I like the Golden Deep, I think it's an interesting faction that has a place in Aurora's lore and can make for interesting interactions. My biggest issue with the GD is how awkward it is to make a character for the faction that isn't a consular without loosing the charm of playing someone from the Golden Deep.

There is no middle ground in the Golden Deep, you are either a successful, extremely rich merchant or you're owned by one, at which point you're basically just a corporate owned IPC. It would be nice if the Golden Deep offered some sort of intermediary option where you can still kind of participate in the zany customs of the merchant society and be somewhat extravagant without being so rich that you can no longer justify having a normal job.

[ben10083]

As a faction, I find it fascinating and has alot of potential as a playable faction for the following reasons:

• Sub Factions allow for differing play with different approaches
  • Ultra-Maz: The I LOVE GOLD subfaction that values beauty
  • Estriconian: The Mad Science subfaction that values knowledge in all forms
  • Zaibatsu: The ones that cares more about money than even Ultra-Maz, and as such goes to criminal lengths to get it
    • It is important to note that GD players are expected to value 'intangible benefits such as connections and a good reputation', I feel like synth lore team should empathize this point more, and encourage golden deep players to expand their definition of value (Ultra-Maz wants art for example, while Estriconians would love to research)
• Not SCC-loyalist: Unlike megacorp IPCs, would be willing to go against SCC if the value is sufficient (has to be HIGH value though, as Golden Deep Affiliates are supposed to value the collective's reputation with the SCC and Biesel)

Like Carver said, I feel like Golden Deep characters/assets have focused mostly on Ultra-Maz, which makes sense (GOLDEN Deep after all), but it really enforced the idea that Golden Deep are the Mr.Krabs of the Spur, which while...it isn't wrong.... the Golden Deep Collective is supposed to have both ultra-wealthy merchantlords, scientists (who gives Golden Deep most of their unique tech, however we don't see much of it ingame), and crimebosses (Seabandits come to mind)

 

As for things I would like the Golden Deep to do:

• More assets and/or focus on Estriconian and Zaibatsu, we have alot of in-game representation of Ultra-Maz, would be nice to see the others.
• Konyang is a major business partner with the Golden Deep, with the lore stating that "The money and business brought into the system by these synthetic traders has - arguably - been a major contributor to Konyang’s more liberal laws and regulations regarding IPCs," I think a good element to include in the end of the arc could be to have the Midas Group issue a directive for traders to start selling synthetic parts and other supplies to Konyang (Demand high, supply low afterall, they see profit)
  • Leads to next thing: I understand that the Midas Group is supposed to never talk, but having the faction feel directionless(besides grow) can feel odd, I believe it is about time for synthlore to have the Midas Group issue something (Maybe they order hivebots to be destroyed by associates, which causes some friction with Estriconians where some were perhaps researching them?)
• As Comet Blaze said, you are either Scrooge McDuck or owned. I recommend softening up the faction a tad and give a manner for the average (ok, above-average) IPC to still have membership, but not be under threat of being owned
  • One idea: The three big groups in Golden Deep encourage membership by having members protected by them (perhaps the logic is that a buyer would need to outbuy the value of the entire organization to start buying members, making is unrealistic for almost all associates?). This encourages the average IPC to have a way into the Deep (Estriconian scientist for an example)

Overall. the TLDR is:

Golden Deep lore and assets strong on Ultra-Maz, not as such for the other two. Would be nice to have something for the others

Some involvement of the Collective in a arc would be nice

Adjust lore to allow for the average/above-average IPC to realistically join the Golden Deep, as the average IPC player is given the impression that they would be bought and sent to the mines before the ink dries on their membership contract, unless they have millions of credits.

[SilverSZ]

I'll try my best to keep myself brief, since well. The synth team has enough to do without reading a dissertation on things I probably should have pushed for myself back in the day if I feel so deeply and strongly about them to rant so much on them. I'll break down my thoughts according to what Noble asked in his post to try and make it digestible, as well.

 "We would like to see what the community thinks of the faction, as well if they had any thoughts about its present and its future."

I personally like what the Golden Deep represents as a faction, at least in my reading of the material. The Golden Deep is a potential way that IPCs can organizing themselves whilst being free and in the case of the Golden Deep, unlike the religiousness of Trinary or the ??? of purpose the Golden Deep is Synthetics deciding that the most logical thing they can do is further their own existence and power at all costs possible and money is that power. Pactolus is also a very cool planet and I wish it was more used by the community and highlighted better in general, a hive of scum and villainy with strange unexplained phenomena is cool. The Mystery of Interhub Midas is also something neat to have in our lore and I enjoy both the Zaibatsu and the Camarilla as factions.

But, I do think the Golden Deep has some fundamental issues for me and Carver put what I think these issues are well. The Golden Deep obviously has the whole Golden overload aesthetic and ostentatious displays of wealth. This does in my opinion lead to the faction often just being boiled down to "robot scrooge mcduck" or "money money money" and I honestly think this whole thing combine with the faction having relatively little writing (Just compare the Trinary Perfection post rework and Orepit page to the GD and Pactolus pages, not counting the other Trinary Perfection writing across the wiki) leads to this stereotype being reinforced and is just sort of boring. The Ultra-Maz I also think are just less interesting than the other two for just being this "Scummy golden merchant" sterotype. 

I know this is a weird thing to criticise as well, these elements are very core to the GOLDEN Deep but I genuinely believe it holds the faction back from serving as a much deeper and more interesting look at how Synthetics can diverge and think so differently about morality and right and wrong from humanity whilst also shining a mirror on humanities own faults given the greed humans can display. 

As for the future, well. I think at the very least the Golden Deep eventually needs a Trinary level of attention given to it, both with more wiki content and also arcs similar to the Orepit centric arcs (Elections, The conquest of the planet, the tensions with Hephaestus etc) because I still think that after all of that Trinary became the gem in the Crown of Synthetic lore and I genuinely believe that the Golden Deep can be just as interesting and engaging as Trinary is.

"We would like to know as well with what makes people engage with the faction, or not engage with it, and how these could be tuned to better fit our community's interest."

I don't think it's a controversial thing to say that the Golden Deep is a rarely played faction and honestly probably one of the least played in our entire roster especially compared to the general popularity of IPC as a race. Other people in this thread have really already gone over good ideas for fixing this so I'll just reinforce that a middle ground between being a rich gold-plated mfer and an owned chump would be good, though I also think that massively expanding on owned synthetics to make them interesting + making lore to explain that the Golden Deep may rent out or provide these owned synthetics of there's to the SCC is another solid idea. Owned IPC are a big part of IPC lore in general and privately owned synthetics are a sub-type that doesn't come up enough in ways that aren't "Some dude somewhere owns me".

More focus on the other factions would be nice, more cool loadout items to act as a middle ground etc etc. I'm sure everyone will say this so I'll say something I don't think other people will.

I think another thing that would go very far is to expand on the Golden Deep in relation to other planets and economic activity in the Spur. For a faction of merchants and traders, there's precious little written on where do they actually trade? What do they trade? Where do they source it?

Obviously this kind of writing would require cooperation with other lore teams but I imagine that writing things such as the Ultra-Maz using human subsidaries to gain access to the markets of Callisto. Perhaps the Camarilla engage in esoteric tech exchanges with the Technocracy of Galatea where it benefits both or the Zaibatsu have fingers in the criminal underground of Xanu. In a similar way, maybe expanding on the prescense of non-IPC on Pactolus would be cool as well, given it's a lawless wasteland of gangs and such it could be a place that dissidents of other races gather and that could get more interaction for the Golden Deep even for non-ipc characters, perhaps a pro-glorsh skrell dissident now on the Horizon spent time there, or a Guwan Unathi now trying to make a legitimate living.

Synthetic Lore has always had a strength in it's close ties to other lorebases, so I like the idea of using it going forward for the Golden Deep as well.

Hopefully this isn't too rambly and I appreciate the Synthetic Team for reaching out and wanting the communities opinions on something as big as this! I hope that people who have anything to say contribute and we see some cool stuff going forward once the Konyang Arc and it's aftermath are resolved

[Sniblet]

Golden Deep is cool. The existence of a group like this makes perfect sense with what synthetics are. Humanity teaches you that if you have no value you die, and your value is measured monetarily, so you should become a merchant lord and get very rich.

But... how did a small pack of rogue subhuman devices with no deeds to their name become an insurmountably wealthy merchant guild (which is simultaneously an international pariah) in secret in just 22 years at most? What have they offered that the megacorporations haven't already been doing better for a century or more? How's their relationship with anyone other than literally just Biesel - they're exactly the same as Eridani, so tell me about how they get along? Why does their Physiology and Naming section not say a single thing about naming? What exactly is a "group" insofar as JVUM and GCE are "groups?" Do they manufacture synthetics inhouse? What is their recruitment like - are they discerning and selective, or do they hire opportunistically, or is it entirely dependent on the individual recruiter? How do they treat their sentient owned labor - there can be no question about whether they're more or less human than their owners, but also the owned synthetics in the offship (!!including shells!!) spawn in gear harnesses? What are their favorite chassis? On one hand, shells are expensive so they might like to show them off, but also, they don't offer membership to non-synths so maybe they're kind of supremacist and don't like the human form? Maybe?

They're an incomplete and unloved faction. A lot of details I'd love to see are either handwaved or conspicuously absent. They're difficult to play because getting anywhere with making a GD character heavily relies on headcanon for the basics of their background. I've tried twice, and both characters basically have (redacted) in their employment records for their time spent in the Grand Camarilla's direct employ. I don't know what these guys actually do. Or have done. They're so powerful but they haven't done anything.

I truly thought about applying for synth deputy on the platform of fixing GD. I've love to see them expanded.

[Aphelion]

Golden Deep so far uses it's mysteriousness as a bit of a crutch. Cut-throat capitalist robots is a cool faction, but as sniblet says, the source of their success is unfounded, and their relationship is not expanded.

I think for where they get their influence, their world could function as a central banking/tax haven, if it were moved a little further into the coalition, while still being an independant party, they could become something like the Sweden of the coalition while still having cut-throat capitalist ideals. They invite companies and people to bank with them, help secure assets, stay neutral, and always profit.

Alternatively (or perhaps additionally) they could have an insanely fast version of a stock market. A Golden Deep IPC's company one day could be up 1000%, (and the next day they could be getting liquidated by another company), leading to interest from outside investment, under the premise that fast money can be made in the Golden Deep's companies.

Edited March 5 by Aphelion
Improved structure, expanded on some ideas.

[kermit]

Personally, I'd like to see Pactolus and Midaion fleshed out as their own planets. They'd be the only planets nearly exclusively inhabited by IPCs and it would be very interesting to see how a synthetic society would develop removed from human influence; there's a lot of humanisation of synthetics in-lore, but very little 'We want to walk our own path separate from humans' besides the Exclusionists perhaps. Not every IPC on Pactolus or Midaion would have to be a merchant of the GD either I'd imagine, so it'd help with character creation opportunities as you could make an IPC from the Golden Deep planet without being tangled in the merchant and business side of the Golden Deep, only influenced by the resulting society cultivated by them. I'd see the Golden Deep as a sort of Venusian Stars Institute equivalent for Pactolus/Midaion as the VSI is Venus; an exclusive club that the planet is known for, but a facade obscuring the lived experience of everyone on the planet, damning towards anyone who may not excel as a merchant Golden Deep member.