Revert the Diplomatic Bodyguards

[greenjoe]

So Diplomatic bodyguards are not the most well received of my PRs, to say the least, there are quite a few people on the discord that have voiced their dislike to it, and I am somewhat questioning it myself at this point.
I wonder what peoples thoughts would be on going back to just having the consular having the gun and getting rid of the bodyguard role.

[Arbiter_Ambrose]

While I think it was a well-intented PR and it could have worked in a alternative universe where the situations aligned, I think we should just go back to the consular giving the aide a gun or just having the gun themselves since before it apparently worked fine, a alternative title would be nice but I think the maintainers are against that? I forgot but yea, just my thoughts oon this.

[evandorf]

I personally like having a body guard. @FearTheBlackout has joined me for a few rounds now as a Unathi from a faction that otherwise would be very unusual to see aboard and it think it adds a lot to the round.

What’s the problem people have with the PR? IIRC you can open either the aide or bodyguard slot depending on your preference and I think more options are always good. 

[greenjoe]

I think the main complaint people have had is the consular themselves losing the gun and it not being there unless a bodyguard shows up.

Edited Monday at 18:33 by greenjoe

[KingOfThePing]

Diplimatic entities not having a gun is the most normal thing in the world. Them having one in the first place was kinda weird to me. I think the bodyguards are really cool 👍

[evandorf]

15 minutes ago, KingOfThePing said:

Diplimatic entities not having a gun is the most normal thing in the world. Them having one in the first place was kinda weird to me. I think the bodyguards are really cool 👍

I agree. Having a dedicated bodyguard role also removes any confusion as to how consulars should react in security situations, which has gotten people in trouble in the past. The discussion gives me similar vibes to when the detective's weapon was removed.

[DatSamTho]

Yeah, I'm not really a fan. 

My main gripe with it is that a character being able to work being completely linked to whether another character is on-shift, just doesn't really work very well, and almost completely stunts any real character development you can do with that character, unless you make them a forever off-duty character. This is exacerbated by the fact that Consulars have around 12 or so nations they can come from, which even more heavily limits the rounds that your bodyguard character could play in, which ends up in a sort of pAI situation. Consulars that want to have a bodyguard aren't guaranteed to have one when they play, and the same for Bodyguards that want to play.

While this was whatever with the diplomatic aide, it irked me more with the bodyguard, as that took something away from the consular, rather than only adding a role.

 

tl;dr: It feels like it's a role that will be played extremely rarely, and 90% the effect is just that the consular doesn't have a gun, and that's it.

Edited Monday at 19:03 by DatSamTho

[Noble Row]

Honestly you can just make it where Consulars spawn with the gun and then give the gun to the bodyguard. Since the bodyguard is an optional slot, then giving the gun to them should also be optional, and typically if you're summoning a bodyguard to begin with, you're probably also down to give them the gun.

 

Giving the gun to them in round, I mean. I feel like this is a good compromise. People who don't want a bodyguard get to keep their gun, and people who want a bodyguard can just give the gun to the bodyguard when the bodyguard shows up.

Edited Monday at 19:05 by Noble Row

[greenjoe]

12 minutes ago, Noble Row said:

Honestly you can just make it where Consulars spawn with the gun and then give the gun to the bodyguard.

This is what I'd wanted at first too, but was denied by maintainers.

[evandorf]

5 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

This is what I'd wanted at first too, but was denied by maintainers.

This makes it seem like less of an issue with bodyguards and more that armed consulars are unwanted.

[triogenix]

*disclaimer - this is not from a game play perspective - I will defer to others who regularly play rounds for stuff like that; this is merely from my perspective as the loremaster and what bodyguards mean from a setting/representation perspective.

Putting aside what @DatSamTho said about how the role will be played extremely rarely since that's not something I feel I can weigh in on, diplomatic bodyguards give us a justification to represent entities from within the larger Aurora setting on board that we otherwise would not have. Great example is the Solarian Army as an entity, since they're bodyguards for Solarian diplomats, they can now be represented on board and interact with the "primary game setting" aka the Horizon. Without bodyguards, that wouldn't be possible.

It's a minor thing, but something I think is still somewhat important - not enough for the final decision to be made off of, but something that should be considered. It wouldn't be the end of the world if bodyguards were removed and these possibilities along with them. I just wanted to add another consideration into the mix that I hadn't seen mentioned yet. 

[Arbiter_Ambrose]

1 hour ago, triogenix said:

*disclaimer - this is not from a game play perspective - I will defer to others who regularly play rounds for stuff like that; this is merely from my perspective as the loremaster and what bodyguards mean from a setting/representation perspective.

Putting aside what @DatSamTho said about how the role will be played extremely rarely since that's not something I feel I can weigh in on, diplomatic bodyguards give us a justification to represent entities from within the larger Aurora setting on board that we otherwise would not have. Great example is the Solarian Army as an entity, since they're bodyguards for Solarian diplomats, they can now be represented on board and interact with the "primary game setting" aka the Horizon. Without bodyguards, that wouldn't be possible.

It's a minor thing, but something I think is still somewhat important - not enough for the final decision to be made off of, but something that should be considered. It wouldn't be the end of the world if bodyguards were removed and these possibilities along with them. I just wanted to add another consideration into the mix that I hadn't seen mentioned yet. 

I believe personally this is already possible with aides, merging the two roles together works better in my opinion than not, though that is just my opinion, apologises if this contribution is a bit sparse.

[triogenix]

7 hours ago, Arbiter_Ambrose said:

I believe personally this is already possible with aides, merging the two roles together works better in my opinion than not, though that is just my opinion, apologises if this contribution is a bit sparse.

That is an incredibly valid point I had not considered.

[UltraNumeron]

Consular aura farming has severely dropped after the introduction of bodyguards and aides.

[zha everything broken]

I didn't really understand how Aides couldn't already be flavored as bodyguards, personally. I like your contributions greenjoe, this one personally just doesn't quite jive with me for reasons that have already been stated (and that happens, so please don't sweat it too much!)

[CatsinHD]

I'm personally of the mind that having 2 helper roles for a single command support role is a bit much. Aides are fine. Aides and bodyguards is a lot, especially for just 1 person.

Neat idea, it's just something that needs to be either/or imo. Either you get an aide, or you get a bodyguard. Not both.

Admittedly, I also do agree with some opinions questioning the need for a gun or bodyguard. While I can understand the paranoia of say a DPRA, Sol, and Dominia consular, they are promised the protection of the Security department. But that's not here or there. For the specific scope of whether bodyguard stays, I'm for reverting. It was an understandable idea, the execution was fine, it just turns out the idea in practice isn't ideal.

[evandorf]

28 minutes ago, CatsinHD said:

I'm personally of the mind that having 2 helper roles for a single command support role is a bit much. Aides are fine. Aides and bodyguards is a lot, especially for just 1 person.

Neat idea, it's just something that needs to be either/or imo. Either you get an aide, or you get a bodyguard. Not both.

Admittedly, I also do agree with some opinions questioning the need for a gun or bodyguard. While I can understand the paranoia of say a DPRA, Sol, and Dominia consular, they are promised the protection of the Security department. But that's not here or there. For the specific scope of whether bodyguard stays, I'm for reverting. It was an understandable idea, the execution was fine, it just turns out the idea in practice isn't ideal.

I don't really see a problem with having two support characters. If people want to fill those roles then they add RP and don't really affect the rest of the ship. That being said, I could take or leave it. You could also make bodyguard an alternate job title.

[greenjoe]

36 minutes ago, evandorf said:

You could also make bodyguard an alternate job title.

I did this at first, but maintainers did not want that.