Player Complaint - Direwolf20

[witchbells]

BYOND Key: NursieKitty

Player Byond Key: Direwolf20

Staff involved: TishinaStalker

Reason for complaint: Playing a racist caricature named "Kim Jong-Wu" as a head of security.

 

 

In addition to the asian "accent," The name Kim Jong-Wu is a blatant reference to North Korea's line of dictators.

There was also an incident within this round where the antagonists had holed themselves up in the library. Direwolf20 had himself put in a locker, wrapped up, and sent to the library via disposals to take care of the antagonists himself while they were negotiating with command and security officers outside the barriers. As I was not actually part of this incident, it would be appreciated if someone who was could comment on this situation.

My primary issue was how Direwolf20 used a reference name for the entire round, spoke "engrish," and got away with all of this, as a head of security, no less.

Approximate Date/Time:5:30-6:00 ish

[Frances]

So basically, a player roleplayed an asian character with an accent and a name close to Kim Jong-il/un?

[Guest]

There was also an incident within this round where the antagonists had holed themselves up in the library. Direwolf20 had himself put in a locker, wrapped up, and sent to the library via disposals to take care of the antagonists himself while they were negotiating with command and security officers outside the barriers.

 

RD from that round, Command made the plan to send the HoS in the locker, so they aren't in trouble there.

However, the mock asian accent WAS bothering me somewhat, I'm not even asian, but it was.. Irking me for some reason. Now I will say... That I have had IRL experiences with asians with these kinds of accents however, so this may just be a poor attempt at portraying this.

[Garnascus]

CMO from this round, i wasnt bothered by it and it might even have been funny if the context wasnt a heavy RP ss13 server. I feel like its going a bit far.

[Jboy2000000]

My thoughts are pretty much the same as Xander's, however, our plan was not to send the commander himself down, in my mind, I thought we were going to send Skyline, or some other officer. I was in the middle of typing "No, send someone else" when the message that he was already in the tubes came over the radio.

[Guest Menown]

Sending /anybody/ through disposals is a shit plan. You're there to RP, not to send John Rambo in as a method to end the situation in a second or two.

When the antags are negotiating or whatever, maybe hold that down a little bit. Maybe call an ERT to assist. Do /anything/ besides sending /one/ man in through a disposals line (that should hurt due to the change in locker code for disposals).

[Jboy2000000]

It wasn't my plan to send anyone, but the cultists weren't actually negotiating, they were talking about their religion to one officer. So far that round, the single cultist that was there; turned the chapel into a fort, attempted murder, resisted arrest, kidnapped, and as far as we knew, they were part of a bigger group the brought tech to build forcefeilds invisible to human and synthetic eye, with technology able to teleport more efficiently than any of the high tech toys we're given by the multi b-/trillion mega-corporation. I also have no doubt in my mind that if given a chance, the cultist would have done the exact same thing if they situation was reversed, and that Kim would have been attacked if he tried to RP. Watching after the locker arrived, NEITHER party tried to RP before he started stunning people, I even think that whats-his-cult-face immediately grabbed some cult paper and went to open the locker.

[AllIgotisalousyname]

Jboy, The excuse "I can powergame because they weren't roleplaying" is old, and is part of the reason we even have this issue. Next time, those cult players are going to go, "Well, last time I was an antag, the HOS attacked us from the DISPOSALS, so screw roleplaying," And on, and on.

Direwolf is supposed to be setting an example as a head of staff and a whitelisted player both, neither of which he seems to be doing. The Asian caricature aside, we had a man who Ic'ly launched himself into a dangerous industrial pipeline, singlehandedly facing an entire group of possibly unknown antagonists. Oocly, we have someone who launched themselves down disposals in a blatant attempt to powergame and, as said above, rambo the cult. And this isn't the first time Direwolf's really done something like this... I see at least three complaints in the past few months relating to this very same issue, powerplaying or metagaming against antags as a head.

[Jboy2000000]

Im not saying "Oh, they was gonna powergame, I may as well." I was saying "They're dangerous criminals. We NEED to use non-lethal force to stop them because they almost killed an officer before. Not to mention all the other things they did that make them very, very, very dangerous."

[Vanagandr]

My issue is that IIRC the l/r thing is japanese, not korean.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

It wasn't my plan to send anyone, but the cultists weren't actually negotiating, they were talking about their religion to one officer.

Lucky for that officer, that he was getting something interesting.

 

We NEED to use non-lethal force to stop them because they almost killed an officer before. Not to mention all the other things they did that make them very, very, very dangerous."

I don't know how many times we have tried to explain this. Maybe being more firm in putting it across will help.

You are not here to win. Security is not here to win. You are here to provide interesting situations that enhance the rounds enjoyment for other people as well as yourself. You are going to lose, and antags will be better than you in ways that shouldn't make you resort to power gaming. If someone can't accept this and resort to powergaming, they do not deserve a Head whitelist because this is a terrible and selfish example to set for other people. Bad behaviour does not justify bad behaviour; this is not 1st grade and we are not children going on playground rules during recess.

 

Direwolf is supposed to be setting an example as a head of staff and a whitelisted player both, neither of which he seems to be doing. The Asian caricature aside, we had a man who Ic'ly launched himself into a dangerous industrial pipeline, singlehandedly facing an entire group of possibly unknown antagonists.

 

The situation is completely absurd, especially in the way you word it. This is a clear cut case of powergaming as well as joke-nameing and it's pathetic that this is the behaviour of a whitelisted Command player. The asian accent and joke name is not something that should be tolerated on the command level. A one-off joke as an antagonist, or joining as it then cryo'ing? Fine, we can all use a chuckle. But this instance combined with the 'play to win' strategy is extremely disappointing. Personally, I would like to see Direwolf's Head whitelist revoked until he can prove that he's able to set a proper example for other players. This is a terrible precedent for anyone not a long-time player. How can anyone take "High RP" seriously if shenanigans like this are pulled without repercussion? Completely unacceptable behaviour.

[Chaznoodles]

Over the course of the round, having access to Security comms as that Library cultist, I rather enjoyed listening to Kim's words over the radio. It broke up otherwise monotonous things over the security channel and added a little bit of fun. Didn't enjoy being surprise locker-tased though.

[Guest]

Well, the refrence is a bit immersion breaking, yes, as a rule. When it's a reference this obvious and you can't take the character seriously. So, it could be a rule issue.

As for the powergaming thing, I wouldn't call it powergaming. Powergaming would be playing to win. It's security's job to deal with criminals and dangerious individuals, any way they can think of, thus, I give kudos for a non-standard idea, as it was far from the regular "flashbang, stun, cuff" strategy. Why should security refrain themselves from winning if the individuals are clearly dangerous and represent an active threat to the station.

Should we really lower security to;

"Ohh no, they have hostages and are refusing to offer a proper exchange and clearly intend to cut the person to bits!"

"What shell we do?~~"

"We will sit on our asses and let the antags enjoy their gimmick, just because some higher RP rule demands it."

Let's really not. It leaves a bad taste in of forced RP in everyone's mouths, gets security called incompetant, then justifies the people calling them incompetant to play vigilantes.

I don't really know all the details of the event, but if the command was almost synonymous that no agreement could be reached with the cultists, then the ploy was justified.

[ChrisC]

Just to make a standing on the 'accent' part of this case. I understand this might have been just a trolly character play. but we do have multiple characters with a whole range of different accents kinda portrayed as this was so i'm not sure why we are getting upset over the accent. It might just be the name you are upset with rather then the accent if not, it's a bit hypocritical.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Didn't people make fun of every single religion here, including christianity, satanism, buddism, muslim faiths, and so on?

Also, what makes command better then average players, except having multiple complaints made against them for every round they aren't perfect until they don't feel like playing command anymore?

And also, if this was powergaming by direwolf, shouldn't all of command be stripped of their whitelist? they all made the plan.

you know what would be way better then stripping a person's whitelist for /maybe/ potentially making a joke?

what if we just ask her to change the name?

As far as powergaming went, if this was written by the antagonist, maybe i would have taken it more seriously, as is, this seems like standard security shenanigans to me.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Guest

[Tainavaa]

I didn't plan on posting in this thread, but I feel my input might be worth something now.

Command isn't better than everyone else, but they should be set to a higher standard than the average player, at least when playing command. I personally see nothing wrong with the name or accent. I think it's funny, I don't care about the possible reference.

However, normal security shenanigans? Absolutely not. The most similar case I've seen was Operation: Legion Swarm, where the ENTIRETY OF SECURITY, ERT, AND TWO SECURITY CYBORGS jumped into a teleporter leading to the nuke's ship (Actually I'm pretty certain this was a round where Jackboot was a nuke) and neutralized all hostiles. The odds of losing were close to none, and it was a sound tactical decision that seemed like it would catch them completely off guard.

This is different. This is a one-man army thing here, and frankly I agree with Jackboot, this is a blatant example of powergaming. This isn't the first time Direwolf has had this sort of behavior either. I seem to remember a malfunction round where they, as captain, heard the AI say something weird, and jumped to carding the AI. Their course of action, then, was that they grabbed the intelicard and waltzed right into the AI's core under taser fire to card it. Walked right in getting tased, got up, walked a few more steps before getting tased again, rinsed, and repeated until the the AI was successfully carded. This is also clearly a case of powergaming.

I believe that their whitelist should be stripped for the reasons Jackboot outlined.

[Baka]

It's not the accent/impediment/whatever that bothered me. I've seen people (myself included) play characters with accents and impediments that are questionable at best. The name bothered me a little bit due to the connotations with Kim Jong-(whatever). The player in question skated very close to a reference name.

I feel the locker disposals thing to get at an antag is pretty powergamey as well, hindering roleplay for the sake of getting the antag. Players using disposals for travel, with a few exceptions to count for silicons, has and will always been discouraged. I feel this particular case, along with past cases and warnings, should be reviewed by Tish and Aqy to see if the actions that Direwolf done that round as a head of staff is deserving of a whitelist revoke.

[Skull132]

Let me just.

Here's my question. You lot are trying to argue that these people were considered dangerous, to the point where the usage of lethal force was debated here. And yet, your answer is to just... Send one man? Without backup? What?

Oh, and.

Should we really lower security to;

"Ohh no, they have hostages and are refusing to offer a proper exchange and clearly intend to cut the person to bits!"

"What shell we do?~~"

"We will sit on our asses and let the antags enjoy their gimmick, just because some higher RP rule demands it."

 

No, but I sure as fuck don't want to see what happened here again. This is a creative solution, yes. But it is tactically unsound, speaks hypocritical against the perception of threat, and is just, completely idiotic. Hilarious and creative, yes. But the rest, no.

I would like Security to think. To act in a manner befitting a team of organized individuals. The easiest answers, unfortunately, tend to work in this game. But they work not by the virtue perceived, but by the virtue of the fact that people got lucky. The perceived virtue with this plan would be the element of surprise. Frankly, the HoS was lucky in that:

• A cultist opened the locker
• They weren't armed with armour and arms

 

The plan would have catastrophically backfired had either of those conditions been false. So, yeah. Please actually think.

Oh, and how about you's all start listening to yourselves! I would like to point out again, that you cannot send one man to clean up a group of hostiles, and then argue that they were considered dangerous! Had you actually considered them dangerous, you would have respected their god damned presence. So no, they weren't dangerous. Or you all just made a big mistake.

[Guest]

Yes, the plan was dumb as all fuck. That is not what we are arguing here. I am arguing it was not powergaming, as the hilarity of the situation kinda goes as RP value.

Of course, something like this shouldn't be done unless absolutelly necessary.

[Tainavaa]

I'm going to argue it was powergaming, if not metagaming as well, by virtue of Skull's post.

He's right. If they were deemed a threat, they wouldn't have been taken so jokingly and were they an actual threat they wouldn't be taken out so easily. In fact, if they were considered a real threat, the officer being talked to would likely have a weapon out and would have already made an attempt at neutralizing/detaining said 'hostiles'. But he wasn't.

On given information, we can only come to the conclusion that they were not dangerous.

In fact, this brings me back to the Astrodia round where, I believe, Jackboot was once again, a nuclear operative. By Central Command's notification and approval, the nukes took control of the mining station aboard the asteroid and accepted employees - once again - with Central Command's consent. A scientist of some sort comes by later with a Ripley with the intent of murdering the operators on the grounds that they are 'hostile'. Did anything happen prior to give them the idea that they were hostile? No. I was observing that whole round, and everything was done legally and business-like. That's something I like to call 'metagaming'. Which, given what Skull said, is a similar situation here. Metagaming.

And by the nature of the operation, one man against all odds? Shots fired without a confirmation of threat, and only the idea that they might be? Unarmed individuals, with no protection of their own? At the very least, that's ganking. So no matter what light you put it in, "It's not powergaming!" Well, I disagree. But if it's not powergaming, it is at the very least, ganking.

Based on what I'm seeing in this situation, three very evident possibilities are presented here.

 

• Metagaming
• Powergaming
  
• Ganking

[Guest]

We also must consider that to draw runes, the cultist must slit their wrists and draw in it, there were runes COVERING the entire north of the library, which is borderline suicidal amounts of blood, even if they weren't hostile, it was imparative to detain them ASAP.

If someone is doing something that could kill them, you stop them. Police swing in from windows to kick people back inside buildings, they stun people and stop them in any non-lethal way possible.

In this situation, popping out and tasering them was logical, while yes it stunted RP, it was a logical action.

[Skull132]

I'd argue that it stunted RP because Security chose the lamest way to go about conducting its business.

[Guest]

Security didn't choose though. I was the RD, the Captain was looking for a logical way to enter the room, she requested teleporter, but there was no way I could have used it to get them in there, so I whispered to the Captain something about using disposals. The Captain then decided that that's how the plan was going to go. While yes, the Head of Security chose to be the Security member to go through disposals, it was the Captain that decided to enforce the plan.

[Tainavaa]

People are cutting themselves and talking peaceably to an officer. A logical course of action, then, would be to pop out guns blazing at them. After all, that officer was clearly in danger and there was an immediate threat of critical injury.

Yeah, that's what I'd do. No, wait. No I wouldn't. I disagree. I disagree completely and wholeheartedly. That's stupid.

[Guest]

You'd just let the person keep cutting themselves and drawing on the floor?

NOTE - The cultist had wall runes stopping anyone from approaching them, and stopping projectiles from hitting them, it was as such, impossible to get them without actually using disposals, we could only listen to them talk and watch them cut themselves.