Apartment Server Ban - My Grievances

[Frances]

To paraphrase Skull, even if you think the admins were in the wrong, please don't condemn them and throw away the whole issue. I've seen a lot of people do that in the first pages of this thread, and this doesn't actually lead to anything being fixed.

Instead, we should be looking to cooperate (this goes for both users and staff defending their respective points) to find a proper resolution for this. If you're not interested in settling this issue, simply choose the most sensible course of action and refrain from posting on the thread (since it won't achieve anything anyway, by that logic.)

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Initially being told that Cassie was straight up banned surprised me. I would have opted for a PSA and finger waving, because then the weight of the issue is on Cassie. By taking such a strong stance, now the weight is on administration to rationalize and defend the issue.

Of course the very particular and predictable response to it dried up any sympathy I had.

The cusp of the matter, is this:

Is behaviour outside of the Aurora server, which impacts its players and reputation, to reflect on someone in-Aurora through administrative action?

The answer now is an apparent yes.

A similar situation happened literally the same time as this one, on another roleplaying group. Someone did a gross, and it reflected badly on our group. We held a discussion and voted him off the island. It was all done civilly, with the ejected person thanking us for not being asslords about it.

So the moral of the story would be:

Don't be an asslord even if you disagree with something.

Also don't blacklist someone because you don't like their lore work, that's just petty.

[halorocks22]

I think that most of us can agree that something went wrong regarding Cassy_jenelle's ban.

I personally see a simple resolution to this issue:

Even though Cassy_jenelle decided not to come back to the server, she should be unbanned anyways. There is overwhelming evidence that her ban wasn"t really justified and unbanning her would leave the door open for her if she ever decides to return. Furthermore, I believe that the staff should admit that they dropped the ball on this one and make a genuine effort to not repeat their mistake(s).

These actions would really do a lot in my opinion. At least, I think that it would do more good than the alternative... sweeping all of this under the rug in the hopes that people will forget about this incident. They won't.

[Guest]

I considered burning the thread with a big rant.

But, nah.

Il summarize it.

 

• You can't unfuck this. I suggest not even talking about it because there's nothing you can really do to fix it.
  
• Im still right.
  
• You're not.
  
• I am right. You're not. This is important. If this was a long post I'd be witty about this.
  
• Due to the fundamental disagreement on who is right(This is me.) and who is wrong in this conflict, any attempts to rectify the issue will be pointless.
  
• Like, what. You're gonna apologize or something? You won't even mean it, what's that supposed to accomplish?
  
• You should deadmin Doomberg and cut associations with him.
  
• If Skull's going to talk about moral implications, he probably shouldn't readily offer to throw the person who gave him the skype logs to the dogs in exchange for hush-hush on this all happening. I mean, I think it has been established that I lack even the smallest modicum of moral values or basic human decency, but he apparently has a moral compass and everything - insists he's been following it this whole time.
  
• People who have been jobbanned for shit conduct more than once really shouldn't be trying to point out who a problem player is.
  
• People who make it their life goal to post at least 5 players complaints a week in a fit of incoherent rage really shouldn't look down on incoherent rage.
  
• People who openly say they're going to try overthrowing Skull, taking control of the server and rulling it with an iron fist while giving jobbans to everyone who plays in a manner they don't find acceptable probably shouldn't pretend to be so loyal to Skull.
  
• I mean really, Delta. You begged to be let in the skype group you're shitting on for 3 days in a row while making increasingly ridiculous battle plans and claims about how you're going to take Skull and Doomberg down and crown yourself as god king of everything, before you finally chickened out and ran away.
  
• You know, since you hate "backstabbing" and people talking behind people's backs, I thought I should just point this neat thing out.
  
• It's just hilarious how someone so fucking eager to backstab one of his oldest friends in the community in the very moment he sees an opportunity to grab his power can sit on a golden forum throne and feign both loyalty and morals.

[Kerbal22]

Now, sorry about my previous post.

But, the question begs.

Why do you people care anymore.

The Apartment server is no longer of Aurora's concern. It is now completely separated from Aurora. There is no more affiliation.

You act as if there's something you should get for it having been related to Aurora at one point. There is nothing.

This thread is downright moot now. It means nothing. The complaints should be taken up privately. You are now complaining about another server on the forums, which if i remember is frowned upon in this community.

EDIT:

You have no authority on it anymore either, not that the administration had any in the first place, but any attempts to try and assume such will be met with gratuitous laughter from me and many other people. Please don't even try for the sake of your egos.

Now i'm sorry if it managed to hurt some of the delicate egos here, but please, do understand that we've got no desire to be part of Aurora anymore. We've seen the bad and want no part of it anymore, and there is no salvaging the situation considering everything's starting to come out of the woodwork for Aurora.

*tips fedora*

You've lost my favor.

[SgtSammac]

Now i'm sorry if it managed to hurt some of the delicate egos here, but please, do understand that we've got no desire to be part of Aurora anymore. We've seen the bad and want no part of it anymore, and there is no salvaging the situation considering everything's starting to come out of the woodwork for Aurora.

*tips fedora*

You've lost my favor.

 

As much as I hate any of this shits existance and think people should grow up.

If the members of the apartment server hate us so much.

WHY. THE. FUCK. DO. YOU. KEEP. COMING. BACK. TO. THE. AURORA. FORUMS.

You want no part of it anymore? Want to know the easiest way to not be part of it? LEAVE and Don't Come Back.

DISCLAIMER: THESE ARE MY VIEWS AS A PLAYER. Not as a member of staff, so if you want to put in a complaint about my conduct within my job, go sit on a fucking cactus first.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Guest

[Skull132]

They ultimately care because they choose to, Kerbal. You are not required to be invested in this discussion, nor is your server. If you wish to draw the line, then please, stick to your side of it, and allow those who choose to stick to mine.

And might I note one thing. This choice is important.

And Sam, back off.

[Guest]

WHY. THE. FUCK. DO. YOU. KEEP. COMING. BACK. TO. THE. AURORA. FORUMS.

 

Because you keep talking about it on the Aurora forums, genius.

[Guest]

Francis, almost no one from the group has expressed a wish to return to the server, especially not the most active members. Let me give you one of the reasons why.

As the whole thing was at its peak, the lot of us had a chance to discuss this with Skull and Doomberg. Among the issues touched, it was made obvious that the previous efforts to help fix the server by certain members of the group were unappriciated. Cassy and others were painted as problem community members. Their main fault was starting and fueling shitstorms in an attempt to change something. Yes, this is militant, but the entire group was under firm belief that no changes will be done unless people make racket, which is a valid point, regardless of how right or wrong.

So, why should they even bother returning to the server if they can't help change it and no one is willing to listen to them? Truth of the matter is that they have been playing less and less over the last few months. They did not leave just because of this incident, they left because they gave up. Cassy herself, does not give a shit about the ban, I think, she only cares about clearing her name. The ban was just closure for her.

As for me, I've decided to leave the server on principle. Not because of what the staff did, but because of what I did. I don't intend to change my mind, regardless of me actually wanting to play on Aurora. I'll stick to my principles over fun any day of the week.

[SgtSammac]

WHY. THE. FUCK. DO. YOU. KEEP. COMING. BACK. TO. THE. AURORA. FORUMS.

 

Because you keep talking about it on the Aurora forums, genius.

 

Last I checked, in order to see something here, you have to visit first.

[Guest]

Last I checked, in order to see something here, you have to visit first.

 

Talking about me attracts my attention. If you don't want that, you just have to take your shittalk to your own private skype conversation like a civilized person.

I mean - I was literally A-ok with quietly going somewhere else with no huge announcement or anything but you people decided to pick things up again.

[Guest]

Soundscopes was obviously biased

That's an assumption biased off by very minimal input.

A week before this happened my grandfather died, the funeral was three days after, I had enough of my own things to deal with but there was madness that made me feel like I had to choose between friends and friends.

I decided to fall in line and just do what I was told, there was enough going on without adding more.

It came to threats of wars between servers. If anything comes to friends or server, I will choose friends hands down every time.

Do I agree with what happened? I dunno, I've been focusing on remembering the memory of my grandfather not what's been going on.

Do I agree with how the event's took place? No, and I've said that to people who have asked.

Being an admin sucks, people hate you for no reason or from misinformed information.

I'm probably not going to post anymore in this thread, I'm still grieving his death and writing it out made me start crying again.

I just thought you should know my situation before you go saying what you think my thoughts are.

[SgtSammac]

Soundscopes was obviously biased

That's an assumption biased off by very minimal input.

A week before this happened my grandfather died.

 

Really sorry to hear that Scopes.

[Skull132]

This discussion is ultimately about the Admins and myself. You and your friends will thus no longer be mentioned. 3 hours until I can give this my full attention (am home)

[nanotoxin]

Honestly, my only problem with that entire situation, was the absolutely disgusting behaviour by Doomberg. The only reason it didn't reach critical mass is because scopes came in and saved the day.

Doomberg would dance around subjects with very vague answers, he'd just out right ignore most questions, he wouldn't site any of his claims of what Cassy did wrong. He painted himself and the admin team(as he's now headmin) in a very bad light, and the rest of reddit thought so as well.

Now, people keep saying "oh them whipper snappers in their group, they've been ruining this group since december, bwaaah." Which is a fine and dandy opinion to have, except the group started in at least february. So we're not the problem, something else is and you're trying to pin it on us.

The way everything was worded, made it seem as if it was a personal attack on Cassy, and honestly, a slap on the wrist for doomberg and having him apologize infront of the class would ease me, idk about anyone else. But this issue needs to be put to bed.

[Guest Menown]

My visit to McDonald's was nice. I bought a coffee and burrito for my mom, and a soda with a biscuit for me.

I gave my dog part of the biscuit, since he loves them so much.

[Thundy]

I got a large quarter pounder meal, a hash brown and a mcflurry.

[Tenenza]

*wakes up, drinking some morning tea, goes on forums.*

*three more pages of posts then when I went to sleep*

Oh bugger, more reading.

Edit:

Oh bugger, bold text, coloured text, big text wow.

And now I need to think about things. Great.

[Doomberg]

Admins have banned someone because of what that person did on another server (their very own private server, no less.)

Admins permabanned a person for releasing logs of ERP - not from Aurora's server - to an enclosed group.

 

Due to an incident in which only our players/community members were involved, on a server that piggybacked on ours for obtaining the majority of its playerbase.

 

Admins are taking a stance that mocking ERP is really serious (when literally nobody gave a shit about it until now, and Aurora staff has also dealt with ERP with a very similar attitude until recently.)

 

The semi-public mockery of our players is what bothers me, not the fact that it was ERP.

 

Doomberg told me somebody sending others unsolicited pictures of his penis is less serious than ERP logs being laughed at, somehow.

 

Less serious? I probably misspoke(typed?) if you believe this is what I meant. "Much easier to root out and deal with" was the intended claim. No such fuss would have been made in that case.

 

Admins retroactively explained that Cassie's ban reason was because "she was stirring up trouble on the forums", yet they've not elaborated on that at all or provided concrete examples yet.

 

Ban reason? No. Major contributing factor? Yes, at least in my own view.

Couple of examples to refer to:

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2882&p=28737#p28737

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2882&p=28727#p28727

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2882&p=28716#p28716

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1556

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1266&p=11603#p11603

Yes, some of these are, at least partly, in a gray area. I picked them for the sake of illustrating the entire "revolutionary" mindset I've seen constantly manifest in someone who hardly played on the server.

 

This whole affair was turned into a really unnecessary announcement, which somewhat makes it look like admins are interested in policing everyone in their free time, and that they'll get banned if they don't agree with the staff's policies. (And before you come and say that it's not what you mean to be doing, it, kinda is what you're doing now.)

 

• Making this public was dumb, yes.
  
• No one is being policed in their free time, that is hyperbole.
  
• No one is being banned for disagreeing with staff in any sense, and that is quite easily proven by the fact that the people who are vehemently doing so are still able to post and play to their heart's content.

---

---

 

Moving on: I would urge those among you who are still interested in this issue for whatever reason to take a step back and glance at the various posts that were created regarding it in the past two or so weeks. This once, look past the perceived meaning of these messages and examine, instead, their tone and intent.

More reference material for your viewing pleasure:

I can explain the reason.

A complete loss of faith in the administration. It as not seen as worth it. Soundscopes had already demonstrated that they were siding with the staff against all reason, and the staff had demonstrated themselves to be completely unreasonable. The headmin and head dev were the ones being complained about and the ones in charge of the complaints. Soundscopes was obviously biased, and many people supported an absurd and unreasonable position.

The staff had been dealt with for several months on end, progress was not made, and for speaking up and raising legit issues Skull and Doomberg saw Cassie as a 'toxic individual' causing the problems, doing their damnedest to ignore every major problem with the server and instead blaming the complainer.

That's the mindset. This was an opportunity to finally sever ties. Now, the Aurora staff can't abuse us like this again, because they have no power or leverage over us. This is worth far more than what is gained from the server. I will certainly regret leaving many characters behind, but many Aurora regulars have already left due to the problems the staff have neglected to solve, the ones they have actively repressed dialogue on (brought up in the first thread), and the ones they even cause themselves in this case.

The idea with the reddit thread was to either 1. Embarass Skull and Doomberg into, hopefully, stepping down, or at least get them to show some humility, undo the ban as a symbolic measure, and actually change policy. Or 2. warn other players on other servers about the numerous problems on Aurora and the toxic environment present, so they won't have to suffer through it.

The fact that Doomberg responded by claiming thatwe had 'done no damage' shows that he chose Option 2. After the thread, the choice is no longer ours. The initiative is purely on Skull and Doomberg. They caused this mess. Now my group has no obligation to them, they have no power over us, and we have no reason to actively do anything for them. We can be honest for once and don't have to lie for fear of losing social capital or losing the favor of the staff. And we don't have to promise to keep quiet about the issue or anything. We can simply... go on, be normal players, and act like normal people.

I intend no insult. This is simply me being honest in my dealings. I'm stating my opinion and a number of facts. Whether people see this as somehow an ad hominem is up to them. For those of you like Frances that have somehow still maintained the will to stay, if you want to fix Aurora then I'd advise actually listening to what Cassy and Rectum said. And I'd think very carefully about the heads of staff.

When I say the staff, I primarily refer to the heads. I don't mean everyone. Hell, we even have some staff and ex-staff in our 'insidious' metaclique.

I considered burning the thread with a big rant.

But, nah.

Il summarize it.

You can't unfuck this. I suggest not even talking about it because there's nothing you can really do to fix it.

Im still right.

You're not.

I am right. You're not. This is important. If this was a long post I'd be witty about this.

Due to the fundamental disagreement on who is right(This is me.) and who is wrong in this conflict, any attempts to rectify the issue will be pointless.

Like, what. You're gonna apologize or something? You won't even mean it, what's that supposed to accomplish?

You should deadmin Doomberg and cut associations with him.

If Skull's going to talk about moral implications, he probably shouldn't readily offer to throw the person who gave him the skype logs to the dogs in exchange for hush-hush on this all happening. I mean, I think it has been established that I lack even the smallest modicum of moral values or basic human decency, but he apparently has a moral compass and everything - insists he's been following it this whole time.

People who have been jobbanned for shit conduct more than once really shouldn't be trying to point out who a problem player is.

People who make it their life goal to post at least 5 players complaints a week in a fit of incoherent rage really shouldn't look down on incoherent rage.

People who openly say they're going to try overthrowing Skull, taking control of the server and rulling it with an iron fist while giving jobbans to everyone who plays in a manner they don't find acceptable probably shouldn't pretend to be so loyal to Skull.

I mean really, Delta. You begged to be let in the skype group you're shitting on for 3 days in a row while making increasingly ridiculous battle plans and claims about how you're going to take Skull and Doomberg down and crown yourself as god king of everything, before you finally chickened out and ran away.

You know, since you hate "backstabbing" and people talking behind people's backs, I thought I should just point this neat thing out.

It's just hilarious how someone so fucking eager to backstab one of his oldest friends in the community in the very moment he sees an opportunity to grab his power can sit on a golden forum throne and feign both loyalty and morals.

Whether you agree with the initial measure and its execution or not, I find it extremely hard to believe that you can still fault the staff after taking in consideration all that's happened, the announced intent of certain members of the group in question to do as much damage to Aurora as possible, to attempt to publicly slander/humiliate various members of staff, etcetera - especially when most of their actions have been in line with said intent.

[nanotoxin]

I find it extremely hard to believe that you can still fault the staff after taking in consideration all that's happened, the announced intent of certain members of the group in question to do as much damage to Aurora as possible, to attempt to publicly slander/humiliate various members of staff, etcetera - especially when most of their actions have been in line with said intent.

 

Nah mate. I've said multiple times on multiple forums. The official goal of the group, is to remove the person you're using to feed you logs. Which is fairly hypocritical, considering you bitched at the group for exploiting the privacy of the players who ERP'd. The only problem most of the group has, Doom, is with you, and your insidious staffing methods. As well I'm sure we'd all really like some sources as to these attempts to where they'd publicly slander/humiliate a member of staff, excluding you of course.

Edit* I shouldn't say staffing methods, I haven't really cared to watch you. What I meant to say, is your insidious behaviour during this incident.

[Doomberg]

I find it extremely hard to believe that you can still fault the staff after taking in consideration all that's happened, the announced intent of certain members of the group in question to do as much damage to Aurora as possible, to attempt to publicly slander/humiliate various members of staff, etcetera - especially when most of their actions have been in line with said intent.

 

Nah mate. I've said multiple times on multiple forums. The official goal of the group, is to remove the person you're using to feed you logs. Which is fairly hypocritical, considering you bitched at the group for exploiting the privacy of the players who ERP'd. The only problem most of the group has, Doom, is with you, and your insidious staffing methods. As well I'm sure we'd all really like some sources as to these attempts to where they'd publicly slander/humiliate a member of staff, excluding you of course.

Edit* I shouldn't say staffing methods, I haven't really cared to watch you. What I meant to say, is your insidious behaviour during this incident.

 

"It's okay because you're the only target" doesn't justify a single action, sorry. As for where? Here, Reddit.

Edit: Please don't interpret this as me attempting to start another back-and-forth. Everything to be said between us has already been said to death, there's not much point anymore, and this thread was not made for that.

[Jakers457]

If you don't like the community, or have chosen to leave the community. Rather than using your energy in an attempt to destroy it or to remove the people you are in disagreement with. Wouldn't it be more practical to move on and join a new community? I've done it, it's a lot easier and I found myself forgetting about the last communities I've been with.

I'm not speaking for or against any party, nor do I really care to touch upon the drama between people over the internet. I merely think it's wiser that you shouldn't let any grievances you have with people over internet take up your time, don't we all have things that need attention in our actual physical lives? Does this argument hold more importance than say... your exams, homework, jobs, job seeking, training, family, girlfriends, boyfriends and various other things that seem more important than a ban from a server. Why expel so much energy on something incredibly small in the grand scheme of things? What gain do you have for being outraged over something you can easily leave behind and start a new? Would say, putting Doomberg out of commission benefit your life or will it just satisfy your ideals over an internet community?

When I see so much energy being put into this drama, when it could have been dealt with in a much more civil manner by /both/ parties, I can't help but be puzzled by it all. Especially those who've long since left the community and find nothing good from it, that choose to come back to apparently satisfy their desire to, I don't know, fuel a fire or something. Can we not just move on? Is this ultimately necessary? Can you justifiable say this drama is so important that it must take up your time in the day?

[nanotoxin]

I find it extremely hard to believe that you can still fault the staff after taking in consideration all that's happened, the announced intent of certain members of the group in question to do as much damage to Aurora as possible, to attempt to publicly slander/humiliate various members of staff, etcetera - especially when most of their actions have been in line with said intent.

 

Nah mate. I've said multiple times on multiple forums. The official goal of the group, is to remove the person you're using to feed you logs. Which is fairly hypocritical, considering you bitched at the group for exploiting the privacy of the players who ERP'd. The only problem most of the group has, Doom, is with you, and your insidious staffing methods. As well I'm sure we'd all really like some sources as to these attempts to where they'd publicly slander/humiliate a member of staff, excluding you of course.

Edit* I shouldn't say staffing methods, I haven't really cared to watch you. What I meant to say, is your insidious behaviour during this incident.

 

"It's okay because you're the only target" doesn't justify a single action, sorry. As for where? Here, Reddit.

 

I was meaning, the problem lies soley with you. You're painting the entire group as a machine that runs soley on the tears of the aurora staff and communtiy, when in reality

1)I never said it was okay

2)You and your behaviour during this incident are the only problem

3)The majority of the group has completely moved on, and wouldn't even have been back if this was never mentioned again

And again, just saying a website doesn't prove anything. I don't know why you do that, and even when you did finally get around to listing your sources/reasons for the ban, they were hardly worth even the thought of a ban.

I strongly urge you to hop up off your high horse, and go see a doctor, because your powerboner is lasting for a lot longer than four hours mate.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Guest

[Chaznoodles]

Let's look at a short list of issues I find with the whole ban/announcement:

 

• Admins have banned someone because of what that person did on another server (their very own private server, no less.)
• Admins permabanned a person for releasing logs of ERP - not from Aurora's server - to an enclosed group.
  
• Admins are taking a stance that mocking ERP is really serious (when literally nobody gave a shit about it until now, and Aurora staff has also dealt with ERP with a very similar attitude until recently.)
  
• Doomberg told me somebody sending others unsolicited pictures of his penis is less serious than ERP logs being laughed at, somehow.
  
• Admins retroactively explained that Cassie's ban reason was because "she was stirring up trouble on the forums", yet they've not elaborated on that at all or provided concrete examples yet.
  
• This whole affair was turned into a really unnecessary announcement, which somewhat makes it look like admins are interested in policing everyone in their free time, and that they'll get banned if they don't agree with the staff's policies. (And before you come and say that it's not what you mean to be doing, it, kinda is what you're doing now.)

 

Personally, I agree with all of these issues. I'd also like to add the staff members involved attempting to justify the ban even though the opinions were almost entirely in favour of it being a terrible decision, and those that are still trying to justify their actions in the face of the backlash from players. I would also like to direct the attention towards

Where the views of those who were outside the happenings have also agreed in it being terrible decision by administration. As previously said,

 

the name 'Aurora' has now joined the ranks of Hypatia in terms of the reputation of its head administration

 

In the current predicament, the only resolution I would personally see as acceptable would be an apology made by those responsible for the ban and defending it to apologise to Cassie and remove the ban, as well as taking a step back and analysing their own performances as staff members to see if they are suitable for the roles.

Also, let's keep insults to a minimum in case the staff use it as an excuse to shut down the discussion.

[josh1133]

There is really no way I can write much without sounding completely unprofessional and losing my cool for certain members of this community. So! I will say little and address France's with what I believe!

Personally I support the ban, though I'm sure just posting this will have most of you asking for my head and burning my body at the stake. She hated anyone who played Security and constantly and created multiple threads telling them how they need to change the way they play (( which some do, but blaming a entire department for the faults of a few is stupid. I don't blame the entire civilian branch for the journalist publishing woodys got wood over and over)). She has yelled at staff and players in LOOC when something hasn't gone her way, made many players feel u welcomed by her general attitude OOC wise amoung other things.

But she was never punished because this kind of reaction! But she makes a Skype group talking about over throwing skull and doom and the rest of staff because "We can do it better!", then leaks logs of ERP to players to laugh at them and people don't see the problem.

The group kind of reminds me of those popular girls in high school when the teacher gives one of them detention for being rude to another student. its also hilarious because Covert did a similar situation but where was the thread for him when he did this? He deserved the ban but at least be consistant with your complaints.

Honestly at this point? feel free to rip me apart, but that's why I believe she needed to go.