Ho-lee shit.

[Farcry11]

Woah hey I haven't checked this out for a couple days and you're all at each other's throats.

Was this really that big of a deal?

One thing I'm seeing in here is people acting like this was a big event that affected them personally and deeply. Allow me to remind you all of something that is often forgotten- this is a game. A game where we RP, yes, a game that we enjoy, but still a game. The characters that were killed? Cloned. If they hadn't been cloned they would have come back next round. The guy that was tortured? Yeah, he got tortured. He incorporated it into his character in an interesting way. He's fine. In the end, everyone was fine.

There's no lasting effect. No scars burned into people's psyches from that one time the captain shot them. What's the big deal? Where's the huge crime here?

[TechnoKat]

There's no lasting effect. No scars burned into people's psyches from that one time the captain shot them. What's the big deal? Where's the huge crime here?

 

B-but muh immursiunz.. They ruined.. Because u didn't du summing i wantd omfg u powergamer- radical players with their "rp" characters.

That is why everyone is on each others throats. I see about four players who wants other players play like they would like to, or a complaint gets made, they take everything seriously and will write novel worth books of a complaint to get the player they "hate so much" punished in every way. This roleplay I've read is what should happen so often, without characters going all justice like an unathi and tajaran instantly arresting person for lowest of crime made, because their edge was ruined.

I want to see more of this often, rather than chef cheetos tajarans buying goats and messing about in kitchen. Or edgelord security defending their "honour" and edge, harmbatonning people who insult them. Also lesbay, going AFK almost always when they can't talk with other "kawaai nurses" and leaving a person dying.

This RP reminded me of a movie called "Wasabi", a French one with Reno, loved it. I don't care about the loyalty implant, it was a criminal and deserved everything.

[Susan]

 

 

 

 

 

[rrrrrr]

I don't think he's talking about the torture, Sue.

[Susan]

Then what was it. What was this glorious roleplay he refers to,

 

This roleplay I've read is what should happen so often, without characters going all justice like an unathi and tajaran instantly arresting person for lowest of crime made, because their edge was ruined.

 

Was it the captain brutally torturing a suspect against common fucking sense and his own loyalty implant? Or was it the Captain and HoS going OK Corral on security as non-antags because they didn't want to get arrested for extinguishing cigarettes in people's eyesockets and beating their skull to a broken bloody pulp. Or was it them continuing to fight with security, struggle with their weapons, and trash-talk players ICly despite having had guns unloaded in their faces because they were upset?

I'm really at a loss here. Totally need some clarification.

[Frances]

I think you're missing the point - the actions TechnoKat is describing are completely separate from the events depicted here. The "lowest of crimes" are random minor crimes people supposedly would get arrested for, not the torture we're reviewing.

I do think torture can have its place; NanoTrasen has often been played off as a shady corporation, and while torturing random assistants for minor crimes doesn't seem very fitting, I really wouldn't mind if certain HoSes or captains opted for "enhanced interrogation" techniques when serious antags are involved.

[hivefleetchicken]

This antagonist brutalized and beheaded someone, and had about 5 items of contraband including a firearm, a full set of chameleon gear, and c4 charges.

While it was still cruel to interrogate them after they surrendered to Rook, I've already made that clear in the complaint, I still think that does count as a serious antag.

[rrrrrr]

As it stands (has this been discussed before? i am like 99% sure this has been discussed before somewhere) loyalty implants are kinda fucking dumb? What sane person would essentially accept corporate mind control?

No one. Loyalty implants need a serious change. As it stands, they're a bit restrictive and lore-wise they're pretty weird.

[Guest]

Sue is right. There is no fathomable excuse as to why a captain would ever stoop to torture a prisoner of any kind. In fact, unless you're an antag, it is completely unacceptable for anyone in any position to do such a thing, within the rules. It is self-antagging. The enjoyment of all parties is not a factor here, the rules need to be upheld, period.

[Farcry11]

Sue is right. There is no fathomable excuse as to why a captain would ever stoop to torture a prisoner of any kind. In fact, unless you're an antag, it is completely unacceptable for anyone in any position to do such a thing, within the rules. It is self-antagging. The enjoyment of all parties is not a factor here, the rules need to be upheld, period.

 

So, rules over enjoyment is what you're going for here.

Need I remind everyone once again that we're here to play a game, and that games are generally played for enjoyment?

[Frances]

The enjoyment of all parties is not a factor here, the rules need to be upheld, period.

I'm actually really curious to hear where you're going with this.

What is the purpose of these rules? What do you believe upholding them here achieves?

(Also, what constitutes self-antagging, in your opinion?)

[Guest]

Sue is right. There is no fathomable excuse as to why a captain would ever stoop to torture a prisoner of any kind. In fact, unless you're an antag, it is completely unacceptable for anyone in any position to do such a thing, within the rules. It is self-antagging. The enjoyment of all parties is not a factor here, the rules need to be upheld, period.

 

So, rules over enjoyment is what you're going for here.

Need I remind everyone once again that we're here to play a game, and that games are generally played for enjoyment?

 

Need I remind you that like any other server, each game has their own rules, and each one is designed to a specific niche?

And by that, I'm referring to 'Heavy Roleplay.' What is considered heavy roleplay is beyond just character interaction, it's also character development, and all of the amazing benefits and consequences that are brought on as a result of that.

When we start making decisions that are self-decanonized because we realize our characters aren't as indestructible as they appear, and they are actually just as vulnerable as any other character to practical consequences that come with making such decisions (like, torturing detained crewmembers who have done nothing to deserve said torture, valid salad traitor or not), it becomes a very immersion-breaking atmosphere to take part in.

 

-Characters must be believable, and well-rounded. No insane or psychotic characters. No Mary Sues.

 

 

Honestly, the problem I have nowadays is that character development and storywriting becomes impossible in light of all of this. This is what I get my fun and self-gratification from, knowing that I had fun roleplaying with some people and built a story on top of it. When that story becomes nullified due to the nature of antags and the rules, it becomes really tiring to play this same charade of 'how long do i have to pretend to be retarded in the face of an antagonist before I lose my fucking mind' over and over again.

[Farcry11]

"And by that, I'm referring to 'Heavy Roleplay.' What is considered heavy roleplay is beyond just character interaction, it's also character development, and all of the amazing benefits and consequences that are brought on as a result of that."

"(like, torturing detained crewmembers who have done nothing to deserve said torture, valid salad traitor or not)"

The guy's character was developed by the torture, actually. Because it was fun, enjoyable RP and he decided to roll with it.

As for the undeserving part, he decapitated another crewmember and there was strong evidence pointing to corporate espionage (contraband, assasination, etc.)

[Frances]

When we start making decisions that are self-decanonized because we realize our characters aren't as indestructible as they appear, and they are actually just as vulnerable as any other character to practical consequences that come with making such decisions (like, torturing detained crewmembers who have done nothing to deserve said torture, valid salad traitor or not), it becomes a very immersion-breaking atmosphere to take part in.

Honestly, the problem I have nowadays is that character development and storywriting becomes impossible in light of all of this. This is what I get my fun and self-gratification from, knowing that I had fun roleplaying with some people and built a story on top of it. When that story becomes nullified due to the nature of antags and the rules, it becomes really tiring to play this same charade of 'how long do i have to pretend to be retarded in the face of an antagonist before I lose my fucking mind' over and over again.

You're basically saying that people doing things that would get them into trouble is immersion-breaking because they won't get in trouble and nothing is canon. (It's debatable whether a NT captain interrogating a terrorist through torture would get in trouble, but let's run with it. There was a part where people got mad at each other and had a shootout, anyway.)

You also seem to... be against antags in general? Which, I don't wanna be mean, but that pretty much negates any criticism you could bring to this because antags are a valid part of the game atm and we're not 24/7 extended.

I'm even more confused as to what you want to argue. Like, yeah, people's actions as a response to antagonists are obviously gonna be non-canon (since that nuke or ling round isn't canon either), but it's not really being utilized as a free pass to do ridiculous, character-breaking things.

And even if someone breaks character in a non-canon situation to do something cool, so what? This isn't a feeble teenage intern suddenly turning into some CQC boss to robust the nuke ops. It's an antag, they cut off someone's head (which is already pretty immersion-breaking as far as 24/7-extended canon is concerned), and now they're being tortured by a captain who's just seen enough. I don't understand how this can harm you if you're fine with the concept of antags in general. And if you're not, the best choice is to stick to extended rounds.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Guest

[Farcry11]

Thank you, Frances.

[TechnoKat]

Yeah, I didn't mean that what the captain was doing was a minor crime. I implied that nowadays the so called "characters" are just defending their edge and arresting/harmbatonning anyone who disagreed with them, for lowest of crimes, and that I'd like to see this sort of roleplay farcry and hive did more than "Ana Roh'hi'tin" herself, who keeps interupting with antags in whatever role she is in. A surgeon, etc.(in what way is that roleplay though.)

I'm afraid of even doing a thing like farcry and hive did nowadays, knowing there's a person with their "immursiunz" ready to be angry for whatever reason, even if it didn't involve them(jboy was not involved, made complaint out of this situation, example). It's so sad to see how many take this dumb thing seriously, ready to write books worth of complaints, we should all tone down and not be that agressive towards each other by their throats. After all, you also wonder why Aurora's community is changing badly, just take some time and read posts like Sue, who just instantly attacked me because "lolol im always correct".

[Dreamix]

Yeah, I didn't mean that what the captain was doing was a minor crime. I implied that nowadays the so called "characters" are just defending their edge and arresting/harmbatonning anyone who disagreed with them, for lowest of crimes, and that I'd like to see this sort of roleplay farcry and hive did more than "Ana Roh'hi'tin" herself, who keeps interupting with antags in whatever role she is in. A surgeon, etc.(in what way is that roleplay though.)

So true. I just want to add something about the 'edgy officers'. Yesterday's mutiny round, captain ordered his officers to execute crew, infected with bluespace virus. They didn't even stop for a second, to think if that's good to execute your co-workers. In fact, they were begging for access to armory, since the first announcement. I was playing a borg, I was repeately flashed and put into a ID-locked closed after attempting to stop the execution. One of the infected crewmembers was executed while AFK'ing (he said later in the deadchat, that he left his character just for a minute or two). All really without any roleplay for non-security characters.

Also, usual malf/traitor AI round. AI core gets rushed by security after a slight sign of malfunction, like AI that is talking strangely (that happened, AI had its laws reset'ed because it was talking like a medieval king). Borgs get flashed, or put into a lockdown. Again, without any Roleplay.

I wish security could start roleplaying, instead of just playing to win, be robust and catch antags.

[Guest]

I wish security could start roleplaying, instead of just playing to win, be robust and catch antags.

 

Good luck with that, you're asking for too much, lol. You think the majority of us haven't tried?

By and large, the thematic of security has always been about getting your rocks off being a psuedo-gestapo. No matter how much I've tried, I've failed to muster any level of results.

[Japak121]

I wish security could start roleplaying, instead of just playing to win, be robust and catch antags.

 

Good luck with that, you're asking for too much, lol. You think the majority of us haven't tried?

By and large, the thematic of security has always been about getting your rocks off being a psuedo-gestapo. No matter how much I've tried, I've failed to muster any level of results.

 

That's not true. I specifically remember being an antag multiple times and having some pretty good RP between myself and security, including with your character Vira. I take it you mean it's difficult USUALLY? Yes?

[Guest]

As a note the situation with the Captain and HoS is getting spoken about here http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3253

DO not start defending or fighting here about that it is still an ongoing investigation. Do not talk about it here again.

[Alberyk]

So true. I just want to add something about the 'edgy officers'. Yesterday's mutiny round, captain ordered his officers to execute crew, infected with bluespace virus. They didn't even stop for a second, to think if that's good to execute your co-workers. In fact, they were begging for access to armory, since the first announcement. I was playing a borg, I was repeately flashed and put into a ID-locked closed after attempting to stop the execution. One of the infected crewmembers was executed while AFK'ing (he said later in the deadchat, that he left his character just for a minute or two). All really without any roleplay for non-security characters.

Also, usual malf/traitor AI round. AI core gets rushed by security after a slight sign of malfunction, like AI that is talking strangely (that happened, AI had its laws reset'ed because it was talking like a medieval king). Borgs get flashed, or put into a lockdown. Again, without any Roleplay.

I wish security could start roleplaying, instead of just playing to win, be robust and catch antags.

 

Yes, because in every mutiny round everyone should be against the captain and just be the same thing everytime, so, there would be non-conflict and the mutiners can always win. You got flashed after your batoned someone, which means you started the hostily and gave us the righ to stun you. Also, let me remember you that borgs can't be stunned like most mobs, neither cuffed, so, how can we stop the robust sec borg from stunning and cuffing someone? I am sorry, but the way that borgs work, it is quite hard to don't take such actions, I have seen sec borgs take down antags without words and just charge at things that would murder the shit out of most players. Also, we didn't kill Roadman while he was afk, we waited him to return, aimed our weapons to him, told things over the radio, then he turned back and ran. I can't say for the other officers in said round, but I was planning to rp the executions, rather than just plain murderbone.

[Guest Menown]

They didn't even stop for a second, to think if that's good to execute your co-workers. In fact, they were begging for access to armory, since the first announcement. I was playing a borg, I was repeately flashed and put into a ID-locked closed after attempting to stop the execution.

 

What were we supposed to do? Lay down and let you stun/cuff us all?

We could have taken you out of the round completely, but we didn't. We chose to move you somewhere else, and give you a chance at coming back once somebody found you, or you were able to break out of your locker.

A few rounds before, you were a borg that had been hacked by a traitor, and with little more than a 'Stop', you proceeded to shoot a fuel tank right next to me. How is that not playing to win/trying to get that greentext.

[Guest]

I wish security could start roleplaying, instead of just playing to win, be robust and catch antags.

 

Good luck with that, you're asking for too much, lol. You think the majority of us haven't tried?

By and large, the thematic of security has always been about getting your rocks off being a psuedo-gestapo. No matter how much I've tried, I've failed to muster any level of results.

 

That's not true. I specifically remember being an antag multiple times and having some pretty good RP between myself and security, including with your character Vira. I take it you mean it's difficult USUALLY? Yes?

 

Just because I try to do it differently from everyone else doesn't mean everyone else is going to follow my example. My example has been shown to produce the most fun FOR ME, but I also do it knowing of the fact that it's fun for the antagonist in terms of shared interaction.

I try to make sure people understand what I'm doing here, and maybe influence other people to act by the same ideal, though not just as I do. Vira is one of those weird peacekeepers that understands the flaws of the current world order. They also understand the struggles that the other side of the coin deals with. She can't always sympathize with them, but she strives to get a greater understanding of humanity based on a case-by-case basis.

No idea. I just derive the most amount of fun from it, it's my way of condoning my security/head of staff business on the server. It'd be wrong to say it should be THE way, but. I dunno.

Playing to lose is more fun than playing to win. More satisfying in the long-term.

[rrrrrr]

1138's post is so amazingly passive aggressive i think you deserve an award (not really, you little goober)

[Frances]

Yeah, I think you're completely missing the point. You're only supposed to act like a cunt if you can actually refute the other person's cunty argument. (And in a perfect world everybody laughs and we go home, but sadly people have to remain salty here). Anyway, I'm calling you out on your consistency, and instead of trying to explain what exactly you were trying to say you posted a good five paragraphs of random stuff about me simply because I made a joke that you might do drugs before posting. (And I can disprove essentially all of what you said - including some things I'm pretty sure I already had to explain to you - but yeah, not the place or the time.)

Like, this is honestly a big shame. You post a lot and share a lot of opinions, and I know a lot of people would like to have mature and level conversations with you due to that, but it seems to be a real struggle to make that happen.

Hey, I really don't want to be your enemy. I'm not looking for trouble with anyone. But I'm not taking kid gloves just to talk to you, and if you can't handle it and resist the urge to insult me with whatever personal character attacks you can think up on the spot, so be it. I'd say to toughen up a little cause it's the internet, and, yeah. We'll all live.