chaznoodle

[LordFowl]

I'm going to have to agree with the 'ic' issue party here. Also, do note that the previous round where the captain was making threats about speaking foreignese, it was a cult round at its zenith, many people were dead and/or dying, and the captain was under duress (If this is the same round we're thinking of).

Also, just because NanoTrasen as a company tolerates alien heads doesn't mean that it can immediately scourge racists from positions of power. You have to realize that the decision to make aliens head is actually recent, canonically, as in not even six months of in game time. Processes like these take time. From an OoC perspective, I really don't see how this makes it unfun, although that might be just my bias against genetics showing (Tbh, if I was RD/Captain I would say no just on account of it being genetics modifications out of the lab.)

In summation, this is probably deserving of an incident report, not a player complaint. That Chaz stuck so well to his character's ideals actually makes him more of an impressive whitelisted player, in my opinion. Also, furry, it is clear that this is not a 'random reason'. His character is a racist. He maintains this racism. Not random.

[LordFowl]

I'm going to have to agree with the 'ic' issue party here. Also, do note that the previous round where the captain was making threats about speaking foreignese, it was a cult round at its zenith, many people were dead and/or dying, and the captain was under duress (If this is the same round we're thinking of).

Also, just because NanoTrasen as a company tolerates alien heads doesn't mean that it can immediately scourge racists from positions of power. You have to realize that the decision to make aliens head is actually recent, canonically, as in not even six months of in game time. Processes like these take time. From an OoC perspective, I really don't see how this makes it unfun, although that might be just my bias against genetics showing (Tbh, if I was RD/Captain I would say no just on account of it being genetics modifications out of the lab.)

In summation, this is probably deserving of an incident report, not a player complaint. That Chaz stuck so well to his character's ideals actually makes him more of an impressive whitelisted player, in my opinion. Also, furry, it is clear that this is not a 'random reason'. His character is a racist. He maintains this racism. Not random.

[the_furry]

Look at who’s backing this complaint, they are all cats, they are all going to be effected by this captain. The only ones defending him don’t have any stake because they will not feel the results of his actions. Do you see maybe we’re not making this up since its felt by all cat kind.

[the_furry]

Look at who’s backing this complaint, they are all cats, they are all going to be effected by this captain. The only ones defending him don’t have any stake because they will not feel the results of his actions. Do you see maybe we’re not making this up since its felt by all cat kind.

[Icuris]

Hi everyone, just thought I'd put my two bits in. Within the respect that I do have little idea of the function of the geneticist and their IC responsibilities. From what I've seen of it, genetics is one of the out of the way areas, a player in there will not have much interaction with others unless they call people to them or they themselves leave their department. We have made procedures to prevent certain incidents to arise due to the abilities that genetics can provide for people. Remaining on topic, it seems that forcing a player to remain in their tiny office for security reasons, 8 minutes into the round is overstepping yourself. I was not present during the round itself so I do lack details but I have never seen or even heard of this being done. Such an incident is an abuse of power and greatly constricts the victim from being able to fully be involved in the round. Although the issue at hand may be seen as an IC issue, the consequence would be OOC as the victim essentially has been barred from enjoying the full experience of the round.

[Icuris]

Hi everyone, just thought I'd put my two bits in. Within the respect that I do have little idea of the function of the geneticist and their IC responsibilities. From what I've seen of it, genetics is one of the out of the way areas, a player in there will not have much interaction with others unless they call people to them or they themselves leave their department. We have made procedures to prevent certain incidents to arise due to the abilities that genetics can provide for people. Remaining on topic, it seems that forcing a player to remain in their tiny office for security reasons, 8 minutes into the round is overstepping yourself. I was not present during the round itself so I do lack details but I have never seen or even heard of this being done. Such an incident is an abuse of power and greatly constricts the victim from being able to fully be involved in the round. Although the issue at hand may be seen as an IC issue, the consequence would be OOC as the victim essentially has been barred from enjoying the full experience of the round.

[Japak121]

Hi.

Head of Security for the round in question and mod who handled this partially when you asked in ahelp.

I'd like to note that later in the round, the IA went to Central Command on the RD's behalf and filed a protest. Centcom then issued an arrest warrant and the HoS was tasked with arresting the Captain. (The Captain went SSD so this wasn't done.) So when I orginially told you that this COULD and SHOULD be handled ICly, I wasn't kidding. If you had stuck around, plenty of RP would have been had with you and the RD, IA, HoS, ect. You would even of gotten to see the arrest, which likely would have been joyful!

Also, to the person earlier who said "But the Captain didn't object over the RD's opinion and overstep his authority" that bit she actually did do. Although I wouldn't say they overstepped there authority anyway, because they're the Captain, but they did ignore the wishes of the RD.

In the end, this is a game with some mature themes in it including murder/torture/racism. It gets dark and it happens. That doesn't mean it's against the rules always. Everywhere has it's share of bigoted or just otherwise terrible bosses. Equally, everywhere has the means to remove these people. Use them.

[Japak121]

Hi.

Head of Security for the round in question and mod who handled this partially when you asked in ahelp.

I'd like to note that later in the round, the IA went to Central Command on the RD's behalf and filed a protest. Centcom then issued an arrest warrant and the HoS was tasked with arresting the Captain. (The Captain went SSD so this wasn't done.) So when I orginially told you that this COULD and SHOULD be handled ICly, I wasn't kidding. If you had stuck around, plenty of RP would have been had with you and the RD, IA, HoS, ect. You would even of gotten to see the arrest, which likely would have been joyful!

Also, to the person earlier who said "But the Captain didn't object over the RD's opinion and overstep his authority" that bit she actually did do. Although I wouldn't say they overstepped there authority anyway, because they're the Captain, but they did ignore the wishes of the RD.

In the end, this is a game with some mature themes in it including murder/torture/racism. It gets dark and it happens. That doesn't mean it's against the rules always. Everywhere has it's share of bigoted or just otherwise terrible bosses. Equally, everywhere has the means to remove these people. Use them.

[LordFowl]

Even if I was a Tajara (And I'm not sure how you can say all the other people who support this don't have Tajara whitelists so easily), I would still support this decision, because you have to disconnect yourself slightly from your character, and evaluate what makes sense. It /should/ affect all 'cat-kind', because it wouldn't make sense otherwise. We cannot just throw away all difficulties of race just because it makes playing those races difficult. We should embrace the difficulties. To counter-act your argument of bias, I present an example: I main IPC, and yet I support the idea that assault charges on IPCs should be vandalism, not assault, and murder should be sabotage. IPC's aren't people.

[LordFowl]

Even if I was a Tajara (And I'm not sure how you can say all the other people who support this don't have Tajara whitelists so easily), I would still support this decision, because you have to disconnect yourself slightly from your character, and evaluate what makes sense. It /should/ affect all 'cat-kind', because it wouldn't make sense otherwise. We cannot just throw away all difficulties of race just because it makes playing those races difficult. We should embrace the difficulties. To counter-act your argument of bias, I present an example: I main IPC, and yet I support the idea that assault charges on IPCs should be vandalism, not assault, and murder should be sabotage. IPC's aren't people.

[Guest Menown]

yet I support the idea that assault charges on IPCs should be vandalism, not assault, and murder should be sabotage. IPC's aren't people.

 

Vandalism applies for station property. IPCs aren't station property.

[Guest Menown]

yet I support the idea that assault charges on IPCs should be vandalism, not assault, and murder should be sabotage. IPC's aren't people.

 

Vandalism applies for station property. IPCs aren't station property.

[Garnascus]

Hi.

Head of Security for the round in question and mod who handled this partially when you asked in ahelp.

I'd like to note that later in the round, the IA went to Central Command on the RD's behalf and filed a protest. Centcom then issued an arrest warrant and the HoS was tasked with arresting the Captain. (The Captain went SSD so this wasn't done.) So when I orginially told you that this COULD and SHOULD be handled ICly, I wasn't kidding. If you had stuck around, plenty of RP would have been had with you and the RD, IA, HoS, ect. You would even of gotten to see the arrest, which likely would have been joyful!

Also, to the person earlier who said "But the Captain didn't object over the RD's opinion and overstep his authority" that bit she actually did do. Although I wouldn't say they overstepped there authority anyway, because they're the Captain, but they did ignore the wishes of the RD.

In the end, this is a game with some mature themes in it including murder/torture/racism. It gets dark and it happens. That doesn't mean it's against the rules always. Everywhere has it's share of bigoted or just otherwise terrible bosses. Equally, everywhere has the means to remove these people. Use them.

 

I couldn't have asked for a better situation and exactly what I had in mind when I talked about IC consequences. Furry the point in trying to make here is denying the form WAS furthering others RP.

[Garnascus]

Hi.

Head of Security for the round in question and mod who handled this partially when you asked in ahelp.

I'd like to note that later in the round, the IA went to Central Command on the RD's behalf and filed a protest. Centcom then issued an arrest warrant and the HoS was tasked with arresting the Captain. (The Captain went SSD so this wasn't done.) So when I orginially told you that this COULD and SHOULD be handled ICly, I wasn't kidding. If you had stuck around, plenty of RP would have been had with you and the RD, IA, HoS, ect. You would even of gotten to see the arrest, which likely would have been joyful!

Also, to the person earlier who said "But the Captain didn't object over the RD's opinion and overstep his authority" that bit she actually did do. Although I wouldn't say they overstepped there authority anyway, because they're the Captain, but they did ignore the wishes of the RD.

In the end, this is a game with some mature themes in it including murder/torture/racism. It gets dark and it happens. That doesn't mean it's against the rules always. Everywhere has it's share of bigoted or just otherwise terrible bosses. Equally, everywhere has the means to remove these people. Use them.

 

I couldn't have asked for a better situation and exactly what I had in mind when I talked about IC consequences. Furry the point in trying to make here is denying the form WAS furthering others RP.

[Jboy2000000]

THe IPC assault/vandalism is completely different from this. This is about criminal charges, this is about a captain limiting someone's RP. The server has something a lot of people call "let the players play" and thats why players are allowed to play and job they want outside of heads as any race in the game. Obviously that makes lore racism useless in this report, so the only thing here is a captain doing nothing but limiting another player's ability to play. Not to mention that it's a loyalty implanted captain actively inhibiting research on a research station.

[Jboy2000000]

THe IPC assault/vandalism is completely different from this. This is about criminal charges, this is about a captain limiting someone's RP. The server has something a lot of people call "let the players play" and thats why players are allowed to play and job they want outside of heads as any race in the game. Obviously that makes lore racism useless in this report, so the only thing here is a captain doing nothing but limiting another player's ability to play. Not to mention that it's a loyalty implanted captain actively inhibiting research on a research station.

[Baka]

From what I have seen of the complaint, this is an IC issue. The act of their racism, while not agreeable with some player, is one not exactly unheard of. With this line of logic, we should be punishing Tajaran players for calling humans stupid apes and dumb hairless monkeys, and doing things against humans that can hinder one's work.

This is something that should be dealt with ICly, with the use of duty officers, not something deserving of OOC intervention.

[Baka]

From what I have seen of the complaint, this is an IC issue. The act of their racism, while not agreeable with some player, is one not exactly unheard of. With this line of logic, we should be punishing Tajaran players for calling humans stupid apes and dumb hairless monkeys, and doing things against humans that can hinder one's work.

This is something that should be dealt with ICly, with the use of duty officers, not something deserving of OOC intervention.

[the_furry]

From what I have seen of the complaint, this is an IC issue. The act of their racism, while not agreeable with some player, is one not exactly unheard of. With this line of logic, we should be punishing Tajaran players for calling humans stupid apes and dumb hairless monkeys, and doing things against humans that can hinder one's work.

This is something that should be dealt with ICly, with the use of duty officers, not something deserving of OOC intervention.

No baka, because tajara (unless they are whitelisted) can’t shut down an entire persons round by calling them an ape. This became an ooc issue when the player abused his whitelist to shut down a players game under the guise of racism. The racism is not the actual issue here.

[the_furry]

From what I have seen of the complaint, this is an IC issue. The act of their racism, while not agreeable with some player, is one not exactly unheard of. With this line of logic, we should be punishing Tajaran players for calling humans stupid apes and dumb hairless monkeys, and doing things against humans that can hinder one's work.

This is something that should be dealt with ICly, with the use of duty officers, not something deserving of OOC intervention.

No baka, because tajara (unless they are whitelisted) can’t shut down an entire persons round by calling them an ape. This became an ooc issue when the player abused his whitelist to shut down a players game under the guise of racism. The racism is not the actual issue here.

[Garnascus]

And I maintain your round was hardly shut down and interesting RP came from the conflict as detailed by Japak's response.

[Garnascus]

And I maintain your round was hardly shut down and interesting RP came from the conflict as detailed by Japak's response.

[the_furry]

On a side note jakpak thanks for handling this icly. I highly doubt it would have been handled or even noted had I not made such a ruckus, and I am generally surprised to see it actually handled IC this way. This is still obvious whitelist abuse and the fact that it had to be handled entails that. Handling it ICly is an interesting way to handle this.

Garn, shuting down the use of an entire lab for the sake of saying no majorly hampers any interesting rp that player could possibly have. At the time I had no AI and no other head to send to command so my options where to sit at an empty bar and have lovely (not) empty bar rp.

[the_furry]

On a side note jakpak thanks for handling this icly. I highly doubt it would have been handled or even noted had I not made such a ruckus, and I am generally surprised to see it actually handled IC this way. This is still obvious whitelist abuse and the fact that it had to be handled entails that. Handling it ICly is an interesting way to handle this.

Garn, shuting down the use of an entire lab for the sake of saying no majorly hampers any interesting rp that player could possibly have. At the time I had no AI and no other head to send to command so my options where to sit at an empty bar and have lovely (not) empty bar rp.

[Reyjakai]

Furry, I've got to point this out here. Your round was shut down by you when you decided to go into cryo instead of letting me deal with things IC, which I /did/ end up doing. I spent most of that round working with Internal Affairs and the AI to get the Captain dealt with ICly. Not to be too cynical here, but you probably should have stuck around a lot longer. I'd say the Captain actually ended up creating a lot of RP, even if they weren't apart of it. We had a lengthy discussion over comms for ~20 minutes about the issue before I decided that it needed to be dealt with.